Spirits, how do they work?

[Radical Dreamer]

I wanted to start a thread about what we know so far about how the spirts work.

--

I know that they have a good range of attack a litte more than half an aggro circle.

You can only have one (of a specific kind) out at once in a team, they have changed this 2-3 times already.

They have a 1-2 second attack speed

They are unaffected by hex, enchant, conditon, and healing

Wepon skills do work on them

---

anything I missed/dont know? This might be a litte premature but its good to know how they work thus far.

Thanks for all the help!

[Sai]

actually spirits have surprisingly long range and they also benefit from height advantage gaining extra range.

spirits do act quite eratic though, sometimes i find spirits just stop attacking which leads me to think they actually use energy for their attacks.

[Lanto]

spirits do act quite eratic though, sometimes i find spirits just stop attacking which leads me to think they actually use energy for their attacks.

Yes, they do, there is a specific skill, Syphon Spirit where the target spirit loses all energy and you gain 15-27% of it. From experience I can guess the spirits have around 30 energy it seems.

Btw, anyone notice they look exactly like Sigourny Weavers offspring in Aliens 4?

[Erasculio]

Yes, they do, there is a specific skill, Syphon Spirit where the target spirit loses all energy and you gain 15-27% of it. From experience I can guess the spirits have around 30 energy it seems.

Yes, and I'm not so sure about their range. It seems that some spirits have different range than others...But I went to the training area to test Pain, and apparently it doesn't work outside the range of the "In the Area" circle (which is, anyway, the largest of them).

Would be good to know if someone else tested this one, though.

Erasculio

[ColdwaveKid]

The spirit of pain created through ashes can be placed indefinately now, as it does not kill other spirits of pain. Thus it can be spammed for amazing camping results.

[False Maria]

Something else: Although you can walk into your own spirits and allies can do the same, you cant go through enemy spirits. some people were "exploiting" (I think it's a clever if annoying move, not a bug.) this by blocking off access to their party's spellcasters and also to the flag altar on the flag map.

Btw, anyone notice they look exactly like Sigourny Weavers offspring in Aliens 4?

Yup! They look pretty cool, but I think different types of spirits should look different, so you know what move to pull off quickly from far away.

[Radical Dreamer]

They need to let you edit your posts...


anyway a few more qestions

how much health?
how much armor if any?

[Dukan]

Yup! They look pretty cool, but I think different types of spirits should look different, so you know what move to pull off quickly from far away.
Those spirits are nothing new. The Soul Eater in the Shiverpeak attribute quest looks like the rit's spirits. I was actually a little disappointed when I first saw them because they weren't something new. But, they grew on me.

Also, there's one near the statue of Dwayna in pre-searing, but you can only see it from outside the abbey.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/rixter201/Guild%20Wars/PreSear/abbey_spirit02.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/rixter201/Guild%20Wars/PreSear/abbey_spirit01.jpg

There's been some discussion about what that is in Ashford Abbey. I don't recall if any conclusions were drawn. Now that the Ritualists spirits are here, maybe some other ideas will come out. This one isn't chained, though.

[stueyman]

as far as i can tell about health, i can only assume it follows the same formula as a characters health (100+ [{level-1}*20]) with the spawning power's mod of %4 per level. most spirits this weekend were level 9, so that would be 260, or approx 385 with 12 spawning power. i'm also thinking that armor is a standard 60, but i didn't think to test that.

[jibikao]

Can we confirma few things and make it a sticky thread? Like Spirit FAQ.

1.) Spirits do "dark" damage? like Necro's? So their damage can't be "resisted"? Can somebody confirm this?

2.) If Spirits do need energy to spam their attacks, do their energy pools regenerate?


You can only have one type of the same spirit on the team? Did they just change that? I thought I've seen more than one Pains. I would say 2-3 Pains in one game!

[Radical Dreamer]

I did testing before and the damge they did was "dark" I gess they dont tell you the type, it does ignor armor though.

Also the wepon skills ignor armor.

[tarutaru]

in case any of you were wondering, u can check out my thread on the 8 ritualist spirit spam team on the rit forums...
anyway, as playtesting the spirits all weekend, i can tell you pretty much all you should want.

1.yes, spirit health is calculated just like character health.

2.yes, all spirits do dmg that ignores armor (aka "shadow" dmg, etc.)

3.spirits do start with 60 armor level, but seem much more vulnerable to attacks, dunno why...

4.only certain spirits need energy to attack. pain spirits do have an energy pool (or at least i think since i get energy from siphon spirit'ing them). most other spirits do need energy to do their special skill. their energy regeneration appears to be 4 pips. the cost of their skills must be low, though, because they never stop doing it. (it does appear that you can stop a spirit from using its skill by energy denial...interesting side note...hmmm)

5. the one thing i am unsure about is what the max energy of the spirits are, or whether different ones have different amounts. all i know is that using boon of creation and siphon spirit can ensure a group of ritualists spamming pains (through ashes) almost unlimited energy...that is, none of us ever had to wait for energy to recharge, as far as i know...

[Erasculio]

1.) Spirits do "dark" damage? like Necro's? So their damage can't be "resisted"? Can somebody confirm this?

...Actually...I'm not sure, but I think what you're talking about is Shadow Damage. The Necromancer weapons often do Dark Damage, and it's resisted more or less like Holy Damage is. But the skills that do Shadow Damage ignore armor.

And yes, the spirits, whatever kind of attack they have, ignore armor. They always do the damage listed...Unless, pretty much like Shadow Damage, there's some kind of enchantment or something like that protecting the target. It's something important to note since some Necromancer spells go through all that (the ones that steal health).


You can only have one type of the same spirit on the team? Did they just change that? I thought I've seen more than one Pains. I would say 2-3 Pains in one game!
This has been answered before, but there's one spell in which every time you drop ashes, a new Pain spirit rises, and the old ones don't disappear. So yes, using that specific skill, it's easy to summon lots of Pain spirits. So far, it appears it's impossible to mass other spirits, and apparently only that spell can be used to make them in large numbers.

Erasculio

[Radical Dreamer]

What we do know:


They do "Dark" (un named) damge unaffected by armor

They use energy for there attacks

They are unaffected by hex, enchant, conditon, and healing (RT skills excluded)

Wepon skills do work on them

you can currently walk though your allied spirits and your opponets can not

They have 100 + 20 hp a level without spawning - most likely

they have 60 armor - also most likely


Needs more testing:

energy amount and regen - so far its 30en and 4 pip best gess

does edenial work?

attack range - aggro circle form center more or less?

attack speed - 1-2 seconds cant be more or less

You can only have 1 spirit (of a kind) for a team - only the angwished was lingwa skill can give you more than 1.


This info is part test part gess work but the more people contribute the more accurate this information will be.

we can now get a nice faq going as we get more information and thanks to everyone for contributing, it makes us all smarter:brainiac:

[Alaric Surion]

I played a rt for most of the pvp weekend, doing a lot of spirit spamming. There was one thing i thought of after that I never got to test myself and was wondering if anyone else got to test out. Moves like rupture soul, consume spirit (i think thats what it was called) and so on target spirits and destroy them. My question is, does those spells target ranger spirits as well or are those counted as something different?

And depending on the answer, do u think they should or shouldnt count as the same?

[tarutaru]

This has been answered before, but there's one spell in which every time you drop ashes, a new Pain spirit rises, and the old ones don't disappear. So yes, using that specific skill, it's easy to summon lots of Pain spirits. So far, it appears it's impossible to mass other spirits, and apparently only that spell can be used to make them in large numbers.

Anguished Was Lingwah is the skill. And yes, it was being abused regularly. (mainly by my team, oh well, what can i say, i aspire to be the next lulu, finding tricks to win tombs >.> )

[Radical Dreamer]

They work on ranger spirits just as well as ritualist and I think the fact that they are spirits is enough to make sense.

[listen]

i hope the devs noticed that the ashes to create spirits is being abused, else we will have the old problem of oath shot rangers spirit spammers again. just that this time its r/rt. =/

[byootrcr]

i hope the devs noticed that the ashes to create spirits is being abused, else we will have the old problem of oath shot rangers spirit spammers again. just that this time its r/rt. =/

people in the random arenas must have hated me last weekend because i spirit spammed with oath shot Anguished Was Lingwah, Dissonance, Pain, Shadowsong. Coupled with whirling defense and troll unguent, i was nearly unhittable and annoyed the hell out of the opponent.

Now, if i could only get my random teamates to stay around my spirits....

[krytonix]

As for the area of effect of spirits, it depends on the spirit. As stated by others, spirits of pain, bloodsong, shadowsong, preservation, etc, have radius approximately the same as your aggro circle (these spirit skill descriptions generally say "in the area" or something similar). Other spirits, such as recuperation, shelter, union, etc, have ranges much further. It seems to me that these have the same radius as ranger spirits, which looked to me (very rough estimate) to be at least twice the aggro circle radius. These spirit skill descriptions generally say "within the spirits range" or something similar.

[Sai]

i hope the devs noticed that the ashes to create spirits is being abused, else we will have the old problem of oath shot rangers spirit spammers again. just that this time its r/rt. =/

if "Anguished was Lingwah" isnt intended to make it so you can have multiple spirits of pain than the skill is basically useless.

something no one else has noticed, when you drop AwL you get the 10 energy back when you drop it, im curious if this is the same with all ashes.

[Alaric Surion]

Should make for an interesting way to blow up ur own frozen soil if a dumb ranger puts it up in the tombs when 3/4ths of ur team is dead, altho it does leave open the option for the ***hole of a rt to blow up the fs to give the opposing team the option to rez.

[Scott the Green]

Rupture the Frozen Soil, but drop a Wanderlust first. They stop to rez, they get constantly knocked down. Problem solved.

[jibikao]

Too bad we can't use Ritualist right now to test things out!!!!

Oh... Anguished was Lingwah is how I see so many Pain spirits.

[krytonix]

something no one else has noticed, when you drop AwL you get the 10 energy back when you drop it, im curious if this is the same with all ashes.

You shouldn't be gaining 10 energy when you drop ashes. This confused me at first, but the reason you might appear to gain 10 energy is because you go back to wielding your weapon/offhand item again. So really you're just getting your item buffs back (i'm guessing you were using a +10 energy staff?).

[WhiteZombie]

I did testing before and the damge they did was "dark" I gess they dont tell you the type, it does ignor armor though.

Also the wepon skills ignor armor.

they can be stopped by enchantments, however, like shielding hands.

[False Maria]

something no one else has noticed, when you drop AwL you get the 10 energy back when you drop it, im curious if this is the same with all ashes.

You must have had Boon of Creation on you, every time you create a spirit it gives you Hp and energy.

[WhiteZombie]

You must have had Boon of Creation on you, every time you create a spirit it gives you Hp and energy.

actually, its more likely because ashes skills remove your weapon, and thus remove bonuses for it when you are carrying them. once you drop them, you get the energy your weapons give you back instantly.

[Sai]

actually, its more likely because ashes skills remove your weapon, and thus remove bonuses for it when you are carrying them. once you drop them, you get the energy your weapons give you back instantly.

ah, that makes more sense heh. :rolleyes:

[Death Dragon]

The spirit of pain created through ashes can be placed indefinately now, as it does not kill other spirits of pain. Thus it can be spammed for amazing camping results.
This has been answered before, but there's one spell in which every time you drop ashes, a new Pain spirit rises, and the old ones don't disappear. So yes, using that specific skill, it's easy to summon lots of Pain spirits. So far, it appears it's impossible to mass other spirits, and apparently only that spell can be used to make them in large numbers.
Anguished Was Lingwah is the skill. And yes, it was being abused regularly. (mainly by my team, oh well, what can i say, i aspire to be the next lulu, finding tricks to win tombs >.> )

Lucky you guys, because everytime I dropped the Ashes after setting a regular Pain Spirit down the normal way, my new Pain Spirit vanished as if it DIED..... Btw, this was Sunday Afternoon, so it was fixed I guess...

[stueyman]

somthing else i remember, applying to the healing spirits i was using (preservation, recuperation, and life.) the range of heals seems to be about double that of your aggro circle (think of it as if your agro circle touches where the spirits should be you're fine.) i don't know if this applied to the spirits like shelter, union, etc, but i assume that it does. any one else notice similar trends?

[Erasculio]

Lucky you guys, because everytime I dropped the Ashes after setting a regular Pain Spirit down the normal way, my new Pain Spirit vanished as if it DIED..... Btw, this was Sunday Afternoon, so it was fixed I guess...
The thing is, which spirit died? The ones summoned through the Pain spell do die once you drop the ashes, as they don't survive if there's a new Pain spirit around. But the ones created by Anguished Was Lingwah do survive when new ashes are dropped.

Erasculio

[Radical Dreamer]

ohh thats why it didnt work for me.
Wish someone specifed earlyer when I could test it ; P

[aeonbahamutzero]

so i something interesting to say about setting down spirits. i think you can set down more than one it's just that they can't be too close to each other. What happened was that my team was able to take out 3 other people during one game and then naturally the last person remaining decides to run. this was in the ascalon arena (not the one with the flag, the one with the big tar pit in the middle). so i set some spirits on one side of the tar pit and then i ran over and set up some spirits on the other side of the tar pit (like far away) and my spirits weren't destroyed. maybe possibly you can set down more than one spirit of the same type as long as they're not within a certain range of each other? anyone else able to do this?

[Radical Dreamer]

yes I have the range is about 3 aggro circles.

[tarutaru]

yes, around sunday i did notice that if a pain summoned from the actual pain spell was out, anguished pains did not summon properly. however, if you only use anguished ashes to summon pains, and don't use the pain spell itself, the spirit spamming was still possible (good times, good times...)

[Death Dragon]

The thing is, which spirit died? The ones summoned through the Pain spell do die once you drop the ashes, as they don't survive if there's a new Pain spirit around. But the ones created by Anguished Was Lingwah do survive when new ashes are dropped.

Erasculio
The one summoned via the ashes died when I dropped the Ashes, and someone else did have a REAL pain spirit out.

And from reading the last post, time to make an Echo/Arcane Echo/Ashes build.

Or maybe just a Glyph of Renewal/Ashes ftw.

[Da Si]

Back to the point of this Thread, I think that the Spirits would have the standard 100 + [level - 1 * 20] health:heart: and 20 energy:fortuneteller: with +2 energy regen. The only reason spellcasters have more energy (and regen) is because their armor grants it, and why Warriors without Gladiator's Armor only have 20 energy and +2 regen. So if the Spirits hypothetically had full Druid's Armor (60 armor; +3, +2, +1, +1 energy) they'd have 27 energy. Unless they have some random "Spirit Armor" that renders them immune to Hexes, Conditions, Enchantments, and gives them whatever armor class they have.

[TBMarauder]

yes, around sunday i did notice that if a pain summoned from the actual pain spell was out, anguished pains did not summon properly. however, if you only use anguished ashes to summon pains, and don't use the pain spell itself, the spirit spamming was still possible (good times, good times...)Not any more. The Spirit of Pain created from your first 'Anguished Was Lingwah' dies when you drop the second ashes.

[tarutaru]

Not any more. The Spirit of Pain created from your first 'Anguished Was Lingwah' dies when you drop the second ashes.

really, when was this confirmed?
was it an update or did anet just do a little "undercover" new build version update thingy to fix it?
just curious 'cause i noticed sunday morning the ashes build still working (this past sunday, that is, the preview weekend one)

[Bravo]

TBM probably just broke NDA on his alpha testing :o...

[Sai]

Not any more. The Spirit of Pain created from your first 'Anguished Was Lingwah' dies when you drop the second ashes.

if thats true then what is the point of the skill? so you can "quick drop" a spirit of pain? its either that or its so that you can combo it with that channeling skill that does more damage while holding an item.

i'd still rather just take a standard spirit of pain personally.

[aeonbahamutzero]

Back to the point of this Thread, I think that the Spirits would have the standard 100 + [level - 1 * 20] health:heart: and 20 energy:fortuneteller: with +2 energy regen. The only reason spellcasters have more energy (and regen) is because their armor grants it, and why Warriors without Gladiator's Armor only have 20 energy and +2 regen. So if the Spirits hypothetically had full Druid's Armor (60 armor; +3, +2, +1, +1 energy) they'd have 27 energy. Unless they have some random "Spirit Armor" that renders them immune to Hexes, Conditions, Enchantments, and gives them whatever armor class they have.

well spirits would also have the hp bonus granted by spawing power as well too. 4% per lvl of spawning power?

[TBMarauder]

really, when was this confirmed?
was it an update or did anet just do a little "undercover" new build version update thingy to fix it?
just curious 'cause i noticed sunday morning the ashes build still working (this past sunday, that is, the preview weekend one)Let's get things into perspective here. :)

1. The 'Factions' PvP Weekend was to give you a chance to check-out the new classes, new arena island, new play-modes and to give you a taste of 'what is to come'.

2. The 'Factions' PvP Weekend was to give ANet a chance to TEST the new classes, new arena island, new play-modes and give them a taste of what players 'got up to'.

... with me still?

Data collected at that weekend from players, helps players to ...

a. Understand somewhat
b. Speculate somewhat

Data collected at that weekend from ANet, helps ANet to ...

a. Notice the imbalances
b. Correct the imbalances

Admittedly, it was a lot of fun while it lasted, but now it's over.


You can no longer 'spam' Ranger rituals in close proximity and Ritualist rituals for balance sake wouldn't be able to be used in that way either, not even multiple 'Anguished Was Lingwah'-induced Spirits of Pain.

[tarutaru]

You can no longer 'spam' Ranger rituals in close proximity and Ritualist rituals for balance sake wouldn't be able to be used in that way either, not even multiple 'Anguished Was Lingwah'-induced Spirits of Pain.

I completely agree. It only took us two days to come up with a half-decent build of spirit spammers to win through tombs w/o too much difficulty, and if left un-nerfed the build would have gotten WAY to efficient. Good, i'm personally glad anet took the weekend opportunity to see that the ashes spam was imbalanced.

Kudos to ANet! (now, about that pet slaughtering in groups that start with an "I" and end in "way"...)

[Sai]

i can understand that it would be unbalancing to be able to spam pain spirits as proven but what is "Anguished was Lingwah" to be used for instead of spirit of pain?

[aeonbahamutzero]

i can understand that it would be unbalancing to be able to spam pain spirits as proven but what is "Anguished was Lingwah" to be used for instead of spirit of pain?

well once you drop it you instantly summon a pain spirit (right?) so it kind of bypasses the whole 5 second summoning ritual. so theoreticall speaking, before a match begins, as it's counting down you use anguished was Lingwah, carry the ashes to whever you want the spirit to be summoned when teh match starts, then drop it and then go summon other stuff. therefore you don't waste 5 seconds in the middle of a match, vulnerble to interruptions and whatnot.

[tarutaru]

i can understand that it would be unbalancing to be able to spam pain spirits as proven but what is "Anguished was Lingwah" to be used for instead of spirit of pain?

therefore you don't waste 5 seconds in the middle of a match, vulnerble to interruptions and whatnot.

actually, no, it wasn't being used for that. the ashes were being used to drop multiple pain spirits in a given area over and over again. it was a bug on anet's part. what was being exploited was the fact that we were able to get like 40 spirits of pain in a given radius at any given time, obviously broken and over-powered. the actual spell Pain was not bugged, only the actual ashes spell Anguished was Lingwah. so thats why the ashes and not the spell itself.

[aeonbahamutzero]

actually, no, it wasn't being used for that. the ashes were being used to drop multiple pain spirits in a given area over and over again. it was a bug on anet's part. what was being exploited was the fact that we were able to get like 40 spirits of pain in a given radius at any given time, obviously broken and over-powered. the actual spell Pain was not bugged, only the actual ashes spell Anguished was Lingwah. so thats why the ashes and not the spell itself.

oh sorry i misunderstood the question. i kinda interpeted it as "what use will anguished was lingwah have once the bug is fixed?"

[Sai]

oh sorry i misunderstood the question. i kinda interpeted it as "what use will anguished was lingwah have once the bug is fixed?"

that was my question :rolleyes:

my point beeing, why must we have a seperate skill just so we can save 3 seconds of casting?

maybe im missing something but what purpose does this skill serve? perhaps if it dropped a different type of spirit so that you could have a spirit of pain aswell then maybe it'd have a use.

[Artemis Shadowhawk]

So the entire team can only have one of each type of spirit? So if you had 4 Rts in a group, and all brought Pain, it'd be useless because you can only have one each? That just seems to be an odd mechanic to me.

[Goldfish God]

yep, only 1 pain at a time. The minor advantage is the each character's recharge of pain is seperate so it's easy to redeploy if something kills the previous one before the first caster's is recharged.

Pains not the only offensive spirit so a co-ordinaed team should easily avoid the problem.

[KageMonkey]

I want to know what you guys think of the Ritualist's concept in terms of their similarities and interaction with existing classes.

Although by introducing the idea of carrying Ashes, this movement-based strategy adds a new depth in game mechanics; however, I can't help but to think that the Spirits are a cheap rip-off from the Rangers.

Having a core class that have a branch that synergizes Spirits from another class seem to deviate from the existing concept of neutral skills that doesn't favor a particular primary/secondary profession.

I think the Ritualist Spirits should be changed into Magic Circles instead, giving the Ritualist a more distinct style.

[JeanDeathwish]

I think the concepts are very unique and introduce very different playing styles to the game. The weapons are very interesting and can be used offensively or defensively while the ashes introduce new strategies and seem like lots of fun to use.

I also think the Ritualist spirits differ greatly from the Ranger spirits. The ranger spirits are "global enchantments" that effect everyone in a very wide range. These are generally cast before battle to give your team an advantage. Ritualist spirits on the other hand are very close ranged skills the should be placed more strategicly and usually cast within the battle or where a battle will take place. Their effects are for only one team and are very wide ranged in effect like Union and Shelter for all types of damage. Ranger spirits are usually for specific conditions like Frozen Soil for corpses and Natures Renewal for enchantments/hexes.

I would also like to point out that the "magic circles" you suggested would be wards. They would be very similar and give the Ritualist a LESS distinct style because as it is the spirits are different.

[Goldfish God]

to be 'onest I think they didn't want to completely step into a class 100% new mechanics. They wanted to add to the ways current mechanics could be handled. So now Assassins can teleport to spirits and Ritualists get even more extensive skills (draining, destroying, creating).

If every new chapter brings out a new mechanic with no relation to previous ones they'll probably hit a barrier in how easy it is to balance the various skills with appropriate counters and builds.