EULA Question - trying to reverse engineer chat protocol?

[mbourgon]

Feel free to say "NO NO NO" and I'll drop it.

I would like to try and reverse engineer the Chat communications. Why? I'd love to be able to sit in a district and wait for a "WTB <whatever>", rather than spamming my WTS.

Note than I'm NOT trying to do anything else. This would be a passive thing - it would only be able to see the messages in whatever district you're in, it wouldn't be able to send, and you'd have to be logged in and running GW. Essentially it would be a really dumb packet sniffer, looking for the phrase WTB and a keyword.

Thoughts? Or did I just get myself banned?

[Siru]

Thoughts? Or did I just get myself banned?
:laughing: Just had to.. sorry :grin:

[fefe]

Why not just use an auction site? Why bother to write this kind of program when there's already an e-bay-style auction site that works really well?

[MoonUnit]

Feel free to say "NO NO NO" and I'll drop it.

I would like to try and reverse engineer the Chat communications. Why? I'd love to be able to sit in a district and wait for a "WTB <whatever>", rather than spamming my WTS.

Note than I'm NOT trying to do anything else. This would be a passive thing - it would only be able to see the messages in whatever district you're in, it wouldn't be able to send, and you'd have to be logged in and running GW. Essentially it would be a really dumb packet sniffer, looking for the phrase WTB and a keyword.

Thoughts? Or did I just get myself banned?

Speaking from a legal sense, what you are sugguesting would be totally against the EULA, it could prolly be considered a 'hack' for all I know. You might get legal action taken against you for doing something such as that but alas I dunno for sure. Error on the side of safety heh Don't do it! :fortuneteller:

[Forgotten Legend]

well, generally speaking, the phrase "reverse-engineering" is even included in copyright statements nowadays, and many corporate entities frown upon the practice, and tend to threaten to sue over anything that shows they could have made more money off it.

however, from a legal standpoint, i don't know of any law on the books prohibiting you from reverse-engineering a car, a radio, or even an operating system.

the EULA technically is not a legally binding contract, however, (to use an appropriate analogy) it is a set of rules the owner of the house has set for his guests, and may legally forbid the guests to return for breaking those rules. (as somewhere, i do believe businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, but i'd have to look it up to be sure)

the EULA specificly states:

3. LICENSE TO USE

Subject to the terms of this Agreement, NC Interactive grants to you, for your personal use only, a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable (except as permitted in Section 4(a)) license to use the Service, and a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable (except as permitted in Section 4(a)) license to use the Software in connection with the Service, without charge except for new Chapters which will be charged on a prepaid basis according to Section 5.

You may not (a) sublicense, rent, lease, loan or otherwise transfer the Software or the Service (or any part thereof), including without limitation access keys; (b) modify, adapt, reverse engineer or decompile the Software, or otherwise attempt to derive source code from the Software; (c) create any derivative works in respect of the Software or the Service; or (d) otherwise use the Software or the Service except as expressly provided in this Agreement. You should keep your access key in a safe place and not share it with anyone else. The access key can be used only once. Title to the Software, and all rights with respect to the Software and Service not specifically granted under this Agreement, including without limitation all rights of reproduction, modification, distribution, display, disassembly and decompilation and all copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret and other proprietary rights and interests are reserved to NC Interactive.

this last part is basicly their copyright notice...

so-in answer to your question... proceed at your own risk

[mbourgon]

well, generally speaking, the phrase "reverse-engineering" is even included in copyright statements nowadays[...]
however, from a legal standpoint, i don't know of any law on the books prohibiting you from reverse-engineering a car, a radio, or even an operating system. [...]
[...](b) modify, adapt, reverse engineer or decompile the Software, or otherwise attempt to derive source code from the Software; (c) create any derivative works in respect of the Software or the Service
[...]

so-in answer to your question... proceed at your own risk
Thanks for the answer. Reverse engineering, as long as its done "clean room", is legally permissable. The whole "EULA is a contract" has never really been tested in court. Of course, I'm sure that'd get my account kicked, whereas I'm doing it because I do like the game ("the road to hell", and all that).

And the clause specifically says I can't reverse engineer the software or get source code. I wouldn't be doing that, fortunately. What I'd be doing is sorta like the SAMBA gentlemen - reverse engineering the protocols. However, part (c), derivative works, would apply.

So, oh well. And the reason I don't use RPG Traders - hasn't seemed terribly effective that I've seen. My $.02. Maybe I'll put a ton of stuff up and see.

Think I'll just go sell a bunch of stuff cheap and go try and clear the furnace for the Nth time.

[computerology]

Most online games come with a list of ports that must be open on a firewall configuration in order for them to be effectively used.

Guildwars would be no different. Look at which ports (typically 8767 etc) are used for the chat and use a packet sniffer or SNMP trap to take the traffic and parse it.

You shouldnt be violating the EULA if you are already logged in and authenticated. You would merely be parsing the data travelling on the IRC port within your own computer.

[TheJarulf]

Thanks for the answer. Reverse engineering, as long as its done "clean room", is legally permissable.

This highly depend on what country you live in. Some countries are much more restrictive (and might require you to do the "clean room" variant to be safe) while in others it is much more free. Many countries even specifically allows for certain types of reverse engineering no matter what and would thus dissalow anyone trying to prevent you from it through contracts, this is typically restrictied to reverse engineering for interoperability and similar things.

Of course, if one want to be one the safe side, one can always have someone that has NOT agreed to the EULA to do the reverse engineering. The that part beconmes a moot point.


rules. (as somewhere, i do believe businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, but i'd have to look it up to be sure)


Well, depends what you mean. First of, most countries has laws that dissalow discrimination, hence if the reason for refusal can be attributed to the, typically in the law, listed ways one can discriminate, then it is not allowed. Otherwise, yes, one can refuse to sell something, be it goods or service. However, there is a difference in refusing to sell and selling but refusing to later fullfill the service or not provide the goods one sold, that is not allowed. So one can't just abort a service, for example, that one sold without reason (or even with reason unless it is an, by the law, acceptable reason which are quite few and restricted. All of the above is usually more regulated when it is about sales to consumers than sales that are not to a consumer.

[Fallen_62]

I see this has already been answered, but yes, a program like this would be against the EULA, and people have already tried to make one, only to be stopped because it was against the EULA.