Luxon and Kurzick

[Xunlai Agent]

Two quotes here with info on Factions:
From GW: Factions Pre-Order Booklet

For a scant few seconds, the storm that followed Shiro's death wail roiled the sea, spawning waves that reached hundred o feet into the air. An instant later, everything was frozen in place but not because of a sudden cold front - the sea was not turned to ice. It had become solid jade. In order to survive, the Luxons had to adapt to the literally landlocked lifestyle, unable to transport goods to market or even sail to the nearby islands for fresh water. Their merchant ships had become one with the petrified ocean., the currents that took them to far-flung lands were now as still as glass.

The traditionally seafaring Luxons became nomads sailing on a lifeless sea. They coontriived ways to adapt their giant ships to the new landscape. They now carry out extensive jad mining operations ont he frozen sea, uncovering magical oddities and precious resources made up of the petrified life embedded in the unmoving waves.

Today, the Luxons have grouped themselves into three differen clans: the Serpents, the Turtle, and the Crab. To keep order, the Luxons invest authroty int heir Council of Elders, the ruling body that meets each year to modify and approve the "code" that all the clans will follow for the next twelve months.

Although the clans often battle againts one another, this is less aobut warfare and morea bout demonstrating which clan is the strongest and most powerful. These battles are usually fought by each clan's champion, along with that champion's elite guard.


From GW: Factions Pre-Order Booklet

When the Jade Wind swept through the branches of Echovald Forest, it turned everything to stone. Birds crashed to the forest floor in mid-flight. Deer leaped from the ground as flesh and blood, and came the earth little more then lif-like statues. Now, two centries later, life has cautiously returned to the forest. The Kurzicks were the first to venture back to the forest. There they have adapted to their petrified surroundings and have begun to carve their culture into this new landscape.

To the devout Kurzicks, everything is a sign. A portent of what is to come. They find a divine message and meaning in everything they witness. This church-state is ruled by the Council of Nobles, who makes decisions and laws only after receiving counsel from the spiritual leaders, known as the Redemtors. Great Houses govern the Kurzicks, ancience families that can trace their origins into Cantha's distant past, and beyound. Today there are five main Houses, two of which are the most powerfull and influenctial. It is common for the Houses to argue amongts themselves, but when it comes time to fight Luxons, Kurzicks quickly forget their internal squabbles and focus hatred on their long-standing enemy. Since Shiro's death and the petrifacation of the forest, the Kurzicks have built their elaborate homes and cathedrals directly into the fossiclised trunks of the enormous trees that make up the forest.

First off I would like to thank Eratimus for posting this wonderful information for us. One thing that caught my attention in these quotes is that there are clearly different interest groups within the different factions. I find this an appealing concept because it means the sides may not be stable which may allow for some plot twists and maybe the ability to switch sides within a faction? I doubt the latter but maybe this will lead to an interesting plot twist where the ruler or leader that you were affiliated with is killed and you must flee his enemies that now rule or something like that. Or possibly having to oust "treacherous" individuals that do not follow the "true" way? :shocked:

Another thing that caught my attention was the structure of the societies. The Luxon Clans remind me very much of the different samurai clans in books like Musashi and Taiko. The meeting of the clans that decides a general policy for the clans is also evident in these novels although not quite in this shape. This feudal society of the Luxons is very much a mirror of the samurai structure that was evident in the Japanese Middle Ages in my opinion.

The Kurzicks remind me of the European Middle Ages with noble families dominating the top echelons of power because of birth right and religion being a centerpiece of the civilization that plays a large role within the culture. The cathedrals could also be pointers in this direction that would suggest the Kurzick Forest being Christian Europe during the Middle Ages. Will we see some Crusades? Or maybe some overzealous fanatics that try to oust individuals they see as traitors to the faith?

Maybe this is all just me and it's not Medieval Europe against Medieval Japan but there are some signs that point in this direction. Just throwing some ideas out and please remember none of this is final and noone is saying that these connections actually exist.

Anyone else have anything to say about? Am I the only one seeing this? :shocked:

[Stardrake]

Actually, it sounds to me more like a medieval Japan versus medieval China thing.

I'm not an expert on Asian history, but I do remember seeing commentators implying that China was well ahead of Europe scientifically and culturally (certainly after the fall of the Roman Empire) and that if they'd continued advancing they'd have reached the Industrial Revolution before Europe, but at some point the respect for tradition and so on became so ingrained that they essentially just stopped advancing. And I think... although I could be horribly, horribly wrong - that medieval China did have its noble houses as well.

[Quintus Antonius]

Stardrake is right. I believe it is definetly a Chinese thing. Although, I agree with your idea about the Luxons in parallel to the Medievel Japanese.

If you look at Chinese culture before their isolationist period ended, (read The Good Earth for a good idea of what I mean), they were very caste based, with families of nobility ruling a large group of lesser families.

[Xunlai Agent]

Yes it is probably China because of the Asian touch of Factions but Europe is very similar if you just look at the quotes on the societies. It wasn't that far off the mark. It was the cathedrals that made me think it was Europe. :grin: But anyway China is probably the answer as Quintus and Stardrake pointed out.

Noone answered or commented on the first thing I said of the different factions within both Luxon and Kurzick societies. No thoughts or comments? :wink:

[Scott the Green]

They find a divine message and meaning in everything they witness.
Sounds a lot like the lore forum. :smiley:

As for divisions within the factions, I think that's to be expected. Any sufficiently large group of people with a common bond will have different ideas about how to meet their goals. Just look at various schisms within churches (the Reformation comes to mind), or the Canadian Communist Party split (into the Communist Party and the Marxist-Leninist Party).

[Xunlai Agent]

Can you say Jackpot? Oh baby I WAS right!
Nope no China here, this be Europe. Huzzah

[Quintus Antonius]

Can you say Jackpot? Oh baby I WAS right!
Nope no China here, this be Europe. Huzzah

The Luxons and Canthans are undoubtably Asian, at least, on the surface. The Kurzicks look Asian, in terms of facial features and physiology, but they are most certainly Germanic. I personally like this blend of cultures, I find it rich and intriquing, and look forward to the offical game when we get to find out about all three. In Tryia, while the cultures were organized different, they were essentially all the same. The people looked a bit different, but overall, it was the same deal. King, subjects, rebels, enemies, etc. In Cantha, we have three different, very different, cultures, with completely different structures. To me, that's just great. The sheer fact that the architecture varies so greatly in only a short area shows how different the cultures are. It's almost like there is no exchange of information between any of them.

[Xunlai Agent]

Nope sorry

[hendryx]

Noone answered or commented on the first thing I said of the different factions within both Luxon and Kurzick societies. No thoughts or comments?

While a lot of my guild spent the FPE checking out the new PvP stuff, I spent most of my time running around trying to squeeze as much story that I could find regarding the back history of both sides.

For the Kurzick, I didn't really find anything that isn't already know, however Luxon was different. You could gleam a little more history it seemed in the clans.
The only that jumped out at my the most was the Crab clan.

If I remember correctly (my memory is a be off on it), its along the lines of "the original leader (dad) was killed and the daughter was carried off / lost out in the jade sea. New leader (brother) searched but couldn't find sister. Sister later return with a big bunch of dragons which kill brother and she takes leadership. Dragons are now back out at sea awaiting, should she ever call for them again." This one little tale caught my attention and made me want to go Luxon. I'm not... but I will be playing as many "crab clan" quests as soon as I can.

But with the history of the overturning of power, both between clans and within clans, I'm placing my cash that at some point in the factions story the kuzick will be trying to help someone in one of the clans take leadership. I just seen that as the most probable way for there to be some unity just before we end chapter and kill off the bad guy. ;)

[Arctus Redryn]

Hm...some of the Luxon names were Chinese, while some of the Kurzick names were Japanese. Given these disparities, I think the Luxons and Kurzicks do not parallel any individual Asian cultures, but only draw inspiration from Asian culture overall.

[jciardha]

Hm...some of the Luxon names were Chinese, while some of the Kurzick names were Japanese. Given these disparities, I think the Luxons and Kurzicks do not parallel any individual Asian cultures, but only draw inspiration from Asian culture overall.

The Kurzick names were in no way Japanese. They were German, and explictly followed the naming conventions of the German nobility (the von (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von) and zu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zu) definite articles).

I don't recall the Luxon names that well, but I know Chinese when I see it. They weren't Chinese. I'm Chinese. I know these things. :wink:

[Barinthus]

What about those Oriental-like characters? What do they resemble if they're not actual characters?

I woudn't know anything myself, being one of those roundeyes :wink:

[False Visage]

Chinese culture didn't have noble houses, this was very much a European concept. The Japanese would be closer to what you were thinking of, but Daimyo were based on wealth and how productive the land was.

The Chinese had a nobility, although it is more correct to say Gentry rather than Nobility. Western nobility was based on wealth and on posessions initially, with it being inherited and the nobles considered inherently superior to the common class. In China, the nobles were literati with the central literature being the writings of Confucious. Strictly though nobility was not inherited however only those descended from the literati could participate in the exams. Social rank was based on the position you held in the government, as the literati were the Public Servants of the Emperor. There were different levels of exams for different levels of office and one had to pass the lower levels before taking the more advanced exams.

Many of the aspirants had to study for years and having the complete teachings memorised was essential. The finacial burden of supporting the aspirant was another factor in keeping the gentry as a social elite.

As for Japan, as I said in the Feudal Period nobility was largely fluid, save for the remanents of the Imperial Court. We didn't cover the period before this greatly so I can't comment on earlier times, but the caste system in Japan was fairly entrenched.

As has been said, Factions draws on Asian *themes* but it does not simply copy and paste Asian histories.

A final note, although the Kurzick may have German naming conventions, I suspect the names themselves have an Asian flavour. As for their dress, the face paint is definately taken from the Japanese Imperial Courts. The black leather clothes though, is an aNet fiction I feel.

[jciardha]

What about those Oriental-like characters? What do they resemble if they're not actual characters?

I woudn't know anything myself, being one of those roundeyes :wink:

I recall them as not corresponding to any Asian character set. :wink: But, lacking a screenshot, I can't say for 100% that it's an Anet creation. It's likely it isr though. As I recall, Ascalon doesn't use the English character set. Why would Anet then use an actual Asian character set for the City portion of Cantha?


A final note, although the Kurzick may have German naming conventions, I suspect the names themselves have an Asian flavour. As for their dress, the face paint is definately taken from the Japanese Imperial Courts. The black leather clothes though, is an aNet fiction I feel.


Which names do you think were Japanese? Bauer = German, Vasburg = German, Heltzer = German, etc.

Personally, I feel it's incorrect to try to broadly label that "this" is Japanese or "that" is Chinese. Asia is a heck of a lot more than just China and Japan. The clothing and jewelry of the Luxons seems to be a mishmash of traditional Mongolian, Nepalese and Indian, for instance. The City portion (Kaieng City?) was a mess of Japanese and Chinese architecture jumbled together (as were the NPC names).

[Quintus Antonius]

Chinese culture didn't have noble houses, this was very much a European concept. The Japanese would be closer to what you were thinking of, but Daimyo were based on wealth and how productive the land was.

The Chinese had a nobility, although it is more correct to say Gentry rather than Nobility. Western nobility was based on wealth and on posessions initially, with it being inherited and the nobles considered inherently superior to the common class. In China, the nobles were literati with the central literature being the writings of Confucious. Strictly though nobility was not inherited however only those descended from the literati could participate in the exams. Social rank was based on the position you held in the government, as the literati were the Public Servants of the Emperor. There were different levels of exams for different levels of office and one had to pass the lower levels before taking the more advanced exams.

Many of the aspirants had to study for years and having the complete teachings memorised was essential. The finacial burden of supporting the aspirant was another factor in keeping the gentry as a social elite.

As for Japan, as I said in the Feudal Period nobility was largely fluid, save for the remanents of the Imperial Court. We didn't cover the period before this greatly so I can't comment on earlier times, but the caste system in Japan was fairly entrenched.

As has been said, Factions draws on Asian *themes* but it does not simply copy and paste Asian histories.

A final note, although the Kurzick may have German naming conventions, I suspect the names themselves have an Asian flavour. As for their dress, the face paint is definately taken from the Japanese Imperial Courts. The black leather clothes though, is an aNet fiction I feel.

In Revolutionary China, around the turn of the century, noble houses were hardly static. Someone who became wealthy could easily buy out a noble house and become a noble house themselves.

In fact, at the time, there were several large noble houses. They didn't function like the Kurzicks, they were more like landlords than anything, but they existed nonetheless.

I'm not familiar with ancient Chinese social structure, so I would defer to anyone who has knowledge of this period.

Still, the Kurzicks are definetly Germanic. True, some look Asian, but look at Lukas for example. That is one big, raging, Germanic man. I was hardpressed to find any real Asian influence beyond people's phenotypes.

[Arctus Redryn]

The Kurzick names were in no way Japanese. They were German, and explictly followed the naming conventions of the German nobility (the von (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von) and zu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zu) definite articles).

I don't recall the Luxon names that well, but I know Chinese when I see it. They weren't Chinese. I'm Chinese. I know these things. :wink:

Hm, I recall some Kurzick names that sounded Japanese (y'know, masamune and the like).

As for the Luxon names, I am Chinese too. :wink: I forgot the Luxon names, but in...what, 26 days, I can look them up.

[jciardha]

Hm, I recall some Kurzick names that sounded Japanese (y'know, masamune and the like).

As for the Luxon names, I am Chinese too. :wink: I forgot the Luxon names, but in...what, 26 days, I can look them up.

Well, here's one screenshot I took in Cavalon:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jciardha/gw310.gif

The name's Armenian. Seaguard Ekarus, in the North Kryta Luxon settlement? I found references to "Ekarus" in Russian. :smiley:

What I really think they are are randomly selected "fantasy names," chosen for how they sound.

One more, of my FPE mesmer staring in slack-jawed horror at the Interrupt Henchman in Cavalon:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jciardha/0003d4ec.jpg

[Barinthus]

I recall them as not corresponding to any Asian character set. :wink: But, lacking a screenshot, I can't say for 100% that it's an Anet creation. It's likely it isr though. As I recall, Ascalon doesn't use the English character set. Why would Anet then use an actual Asian character set for the City portion of Cantha?


Which makes perfectly sense. Just thought I'd ask just in case :grin:

As for your screenie of that henchie, I'm not sure if I got it other than his name Daemon?

Off the track here - I really can't wait to see what Anet have in store for Chapter 3. I know I'm getting really ahead of myself here! I do hope that Anet plan to draw some stuff from Native American civilizations which is very diverse in itself. You have Inuits in the north, North American Indians, 'true' civilizations (as in having cities, so on) of Mayans, Aztecs, Incans, and so on.

Same thing with sub-saharan Africa with their tribes and ancient kingdoms & empires.

Can't wait! :cutie:

Back to our regular programming... *ahem*

[jciardha]

As for your screenie of that henchie, I'm not sure if I got it other than his name Daemon?


Nah, I just put it there to show that as of the FPE the Luxons do not have Chinese names. At least, I know of no Chinese, past or present, by the names of Argo, Daeman or Hala. :wink: (And, that as a mesmer, I was screaming in horror that a machine took my job away, but that's another topic for another time.)

I'm something of a nomenclature freak, if you couldn't tell. I have tonnes of bookmarks about character naming and languages. :smiley:

As for Ch3, I've heard unsubstantiated rumors it's fantasy Middle Eastern-themed. Not bad, a little overdone (but not as much as the Far Eastern theme). But Pre-Columbian civs would be fantastic! :grin:

(Hm, prior to sporting events, ancient Mayans always made a human sacrifice of one of their teammates, I've heard. Could be just a myth, but think of how that might be applied in GW! Haha! :laugh: )

[Zaxares]

(And, that as a mesmer, I was screaming in horror that a machine took my job away, but that's another topic for another time.)

Take heart. The interrupt and Domination henchmen have one failing; they can't tell which skills they SHOULD interrupt. As a result, they interrupt even the most useless of enemy skills, when they should be saving it for the big Rodgort's Invocation, Mark of Protection etc.

(Hm, prior to sporting events, ancient Mayans always made a human sacrifice of one of their teammates, I've heard. Could be just a myth, but think of how that might be applied in GW! Haha! :laugh: )

It's already being done. Minion Factory build, anyone? :wink:

[Arctus Redryn]

Ah, I remember a Luxon name now...Xiaomei..."Little Sister" in Chinese. :huh:

One more, of my FPE mesmer staring in slack-jawed horror at the Interrupt Henchman in Cavalon:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jciardha/0003d4ec.jpg

I stood slack-jawed in awe when I saw Daeman...Interrupt Henchman? Sweeeet... :laugh: Though yeah..."Daeman"...

[Quintus Antonius]

Did you expect the Luxons to have one name stucture like the Kurzicks? The Luxons are seafaring, historically at least, and nomadic, they have travelled everywhere, probably assimilating cultures and naming traditions from lands we haven't even seen yet. The Kurzicks have stayed in one place, intermingling and developing a very homogenous society.

I think the heterogenous society of the Luxons is perfect for the group of people ANet is trying to present to us, just as the homogenous society of the Kurzicks is perfect for them.

[Arctus Redryn]

Did you expect the Luxons to have one name stucture like the Kurzicks? The Luxons are seafaring, historically at least, and nomadic, they have travelled everywhere, probably assimilating cultures and naming traditions from lands we haven't even seen yet. The Kurzicks have stayed in one place, intermingling and developing a very homogenous society.

I think the heterogenous society of the Luxons is perfect for the group of people ANet is trying to present to us, just as the homogenous society of the Kurzicks is perfect for them.

And that is what I mean. In my first post, I said the Luxons and Kurzicks might draw inspiration from Asian culture, but neither is necessary based on one, and only one, culture. In the first post, Xunlai said something to the effect that one of the Luxon clans was called Musashi, which sounds very Japanese. Thus, I pointed out a Chinese reference within Luxons to prove my point.

[jciardha]

And that is what I mean. In my first post, I said the Luxons and Kurzicks might draw inspiration from Asian culture, but neither is necessary based on one, and only one, culture. In the first post, Xunlai said something to the effect that one of the Luxon clans was called Musashi, which sounds very Japanese. Thus, I pointed out a Chinese reference within Luxons to prove my point.

Er, the Luxon clans are the Turtle, the Crab and the Serpent. Which is generic for any animism-based culture.

[Shadow Dancer]

Xunlai said something to the effect that one of the Luxon clans was called Musashi, which sounds very Japanese.
If that's true then I guess I'm gonna have to force my Assassin to go Luxon as they share the name.

[Barinthus]

Musashi was a Japanese ronin who eventually wrote a book The Book of the Five Rings. He is also credited with the fighting style of Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu (two swords fighting style). He has been a subject of several films and Final Fantasy games often have references to him.

Eiji Yoshikawa wrote a novel about him which is titled, oddly enough, Musashi which I highly recommend.

[Xunlai Agent]

In the first post, Xunlai said something to the effect that one of the Luxon clans was called Musashi, which sounds very Japanese.
I didn't say one of them was called Musash, I said:
The Luxon Clans remind me very much of the different samurai clans in books like Musashi and Taiko.

[Arctus Redryn]

I didn't say one of them was called Musash, I said:

Eh...? Ah, I must have read that too fast, sorry. I still hold my opinions, though (which were summarized by Quintus Antonius).

[alchemistsan]

Did you expect the Luxons to have one name stucture like the Kurzicks? The Luxons are seafaring, historically at least, and nomadic, they have travelled everywhere, probably assimilating cultures and naming traditions from lands we haven't even seen yet. The Kurzicks have stayed in one place, intermingling and developing a very homogenous society.

I think the heterogenous society of the Luxons is perfect for the group of people ANet is trying to present to us, just as the homogenous society of the Kurzicks is perfect for them.
For Luxons nomadic culture, Anet have add some Mongolia culture to it. Of course Mongolia is not a seafaring nomadic group but they are nomadic group that have cattles and different clans that fight each other (before Genghis Khan period), so the way of descriptions that they given to Luxon is almost the same.

It's true that Anet have taken Asian theme culture but not specific to a country only. They have combination of China, Japan and Mongolia so far that I see.

[Quintus Antonius]

For Luxons nomadic culture, Anet have add some Mongolia culture to it. Of course Mongolia is not a seafaring nomadic group but they are nomadic group that have cattles and different clans that fight each other (before Genghis Khan period), so the way of descriptions that they given to Luxon is almost the same.

It's true that Anet have taken Asian theme culture but not specific to a country only. They have combination of China, Japan and Mongolia so far that I see.

Agreed. Of historical note, when consider the example of the Mongols, is that they were also world conquers, and had many interactions with the ancient Europeans, thus influencing both cultures. All this without needing the sea too.

[jciardha]

Agreed. Of historical note, when consider the example of the Mongols, is that they were also world conquers, and had many interactions with the ancient Europeans, thus influencing both cultures. All this without needing the sea too.

Which, if I recall correctly, involved the Mongols being driven out of China and their traditional territories, eventually causing the Mongols to expand westward into Europe.

[Quintus Antonius]

Which, if I recall correctly, involved the Mongols being driven out of China and their traditional territories, eventually causing the Mongols to expand westward into Europe.

Are you talking about the Mongols, or the Huns?

The Mongols spread westward in 1235 when they had firm control over China. Their westward expansion was imperialistic in nature, not driven by becoming refugees. The Mongols were driven out by Zhu Yuanzhang in 1368, founding the Ming Dynasty. When Kahn Ogatai died, the Mongols withdrew from their holdings in Europe due to traditional burial ceremonies, that happened in 1241, before they were ever driven out of China. Even after they were driven out of China, they never became a major player, or pushed towards Europe again.

***

On a side note, I was thinking of Korean influences on the Luxons. Ancient Koreans had the turtle as their symbol, and in the 1500's, Turtleboats were used by Korean Admiral Yi Sun-sin against Hideyoshi and the invading Japanese. So that may be another influencing factor in the development of the Luxon culture.

[alchemistsan]

The Mongols spread westward in 1235 when they had firm control over China. Their westward expansion was imperialistic in nature, not driven by becoming refugees. The Mongols were driven out by Zhu Yuanzhang in 1368, founding the Ming Dynasty. When Kahn Ogatai died, the Mongols withdrew from their holdings in Europe due to traditional burial ceremonies, that happened in 1241, before they were ever driven out of China. Even after they were driven out of China, they never became a major player, or pushed towards Europe again.

***

This is cause all other head clan want to become leaders so its lead to internal squabble among the Mongols, so their conquer quest pretty die out cause they have no one unite the Mongols again.

**********************
Anet only have clashes between 2 factions, and i really hope that they will do something like Romance of 3 Kingdoms in the future...:afro:

[Arctus Redryn]

The Mongols spread westward in 1235 when they had firm control over China. Their westward expansion was imperialistic in nature, not driven by becoming refugees.


Actually, the Mongols never had firm control, to be exact. They allowed the governments of the territories they conquered to remain in place, so as to circumvent the problems of uprisings and governing (of course, these governments that were left were still subordinate to the Mongolian Empire). They exerted no direct command on the peoples they conquered.

In addition, the Mongols spread to Europe partly because they wanted to test the European (and their own) mettle. As I mentioned, the Mongols had no real desire to command people. It was more about the impression of a giant, expanding, Mongolian Empire, which had less substance than would be thought. The Mongolians were less interested in governing a vast empire than continuously battling and testing their strength.


On a side note, I was thinking of Korean influences on the Luxons. Ancient Koreans had the turtle as their symbol, and in the 1500's, Turtleboats were used by Korean Admiral Yi Sun-sin against Hideyoshi and the invading Japanese. So that may be another influencing factor in the development of the Luxon culture.

Hm...interesting connection. I am not knowledgeable of Korean history, so I cannot extrapolate significances, but interesting nonetheless.

[Li Mo Han]

It is true that Mongols had no desire to command people. Their expansion wasn't driven by the need to test their mettle though... Mongols believed they were the Chosen people to rule the world and that all the land should be changed into grassland. When they initially invaded China they slaughtered everyone and razed the cities they conquered.
It wasn't until a Chinese official appealed to the leaders that it was much wiser to allow the governments of the territories they conquered to remain in place, that their policy changed.

Also Mongols were never driven out of China. After their defeat they were assimilated and became part of the Chinese population

[Ranger Nietzsche]

In the capitol of mongolia they still have that giant statue of Stalin (might be Lenin but I'm pretty sure stalin broke all of those)

does Cavalon have a giant statue of The Great Luxon?