Lyssa and Grenth: Absent in Tyria, Present in Cantha

[Quintus Antonius]

In another thread, it was pointed out that, while Dwayna, Balthazar, and Melandru were present at to hear the plea of King Doric, Grenth and Lyssa were not.

Several theories were proposed to explain this, but no satisfactory conclusion was reached.

However, with the release of Factions, there may finally be an answer to this question.

In Loremaster Ermenred's "An Empire Divided" miniguide to the history of Cantha (included with the Prima Guide for Factions), he mentions that there are records of the Old Gods visiting Cantha, around the time that King Doric was pleading with the Old Gods were hearing Doric's plea in Arah. (1 BE, or 509 CC). It is possible that Lyssa and Grenth were the two members of the Old Gods that visited Cantha.

If we consider the assassin profession, it is highly centered around both Lyssa and Grenth, and according to Ermenred's guide, the Ritualist was made more powerful when Grenth arrived, and magic was given to the races of Tyria.

Is it any coincidence that these two gods seem to be the focal point of Canthan god worship, and that they are also the two gods missing from the Dorian Pleas? I'd say that Lyssa and Grenth's absence was a due to their visit to Cantha, where they may have resided before the Exodus in 510CC (0 AE).

This may also help to explain why most mesmers (even those created in Cantha) have a Tyrian-flavor, and why there is no assassin in Tyria, yet the necromancer is prevalent in both areas. Although it is important to consider that the assassin developed in part due to the social structure of Cantha as well.

[Darumoz]

Hmm, interesting points, I'm inclined to agree with you. If you could point me in the direction of the thread about only 3 of the 5 gods answering Doric's call, I would be most greatful. Is there a way to read "Loremaster Ermenred's 'An Empire Divided' miniguide to the history of Cantha", other than buying the Prima Factions guide?

[Laibeus Lord]

interesting, more likely it is true.

[Quintus Antonius]

Hmm, interesting points, I'm inclined to agree with you. If you could point me in the direction of the thread about only 3 of the 5 gods answering Doric's call, I would be most greatful. Is there a way to read "Loremaster Ermenred's 'An Empire Divided' miniguide to the history of Cantha", other than buying the Prima Factions guide?

There isn't a specific thread on the topic of the Dorian Pleas, but it was discussed in this thread (http://forums.gwonline.net/showpost.php?p=3943031&postcount=32). The post I linked you to is where it starts, and it continues on from there for a bit. The reason we began to question Lyssa and Grenth's presence was because there were only three gods present to hear Doric's plea, and we concluded it was the three mentioned gods, with no Lyssa or Grenth. Of course, we didn't have the information we have now back then.

As for the guide, I'd say the easiest way would just to be to pop into your local game store, and check it out in the store. The guide part isn't very long, only about ten or so pages. I bought the guide just for the lore and map, to be honest.

[Barinthus]

Same as me, Quintus.

And I agree with your idea here.

[Longasc]

Sounds logical, and it also lets me believes that Chapter 3 will feature an African continent abandoned by all gods - after all, all we know were in Cantha or Tyria, right? :)

[Serena Corvidae]

Hmm, interesting points, I'm inclined to agree with you. If you could point me in the direction of the thread about only 3 of the 5 gods answering Doric's call, I would be most greatful. Is there a way to read "Loremaster Ermenred's 'An Empire Divided' miniguide to the history of Cantha", other than buying the Prima Factions guide?

Situated on a peninsula south of Ascalon and southwest of the Crystal Desert, Orr was a vibrant, proud, and prosperous nation. Its citizens were the favoured of the gods, living in the shadows of Arah, the deserted city once inhabited by the likes of Melandru, Dwayna, and Balthazar.

Source: http://eu.guildwars.com/theworld/article/the_kingdom_of_orr/


Again it's only a theory that 3 of the 5 gods inhabited Arah, however Lyssa and Grenth are notable by their absence from the above lore.

[ShadowSword]

Well Balthazar, Dwayna and Melandru seem to fit the 'good' gods scenario to me...you know, God of War, Healing and nature? Yet Trickery and Death well they're a bit on the evil side aren't they?

Maybe exile or some kind of internal strife among the gods themselves?

[Quintus Antonius]

Well Balthazar, Dwayna and Melandru seem to fit the 'good' gods scenario to me...you know, God of War, Healing and nature? Yet Trickery and Death well they're a bit on the evil side aren't they?

Maybe exile or some kind of internal strife among the gods themselves?

I'm not so sure about that. Remember, worship of these two Old Gods isn't discouraged or looked down upon. Also, "exiled" gods already exist, think of the two gods in the Fissure of Woe. I'd say, considering that Grenth took the place of one of those other gods, he isn't exiled.

To a god, "evil" and "good" are very arbitrary concepts. Those things are assigned by humans. I don't believe Lyssa and Grenth are in anyway looked down upon by the other gods of the pantheon.

Sounds logical, and it also lets me believes that Chapter 3 will feature an African continent abandoned by all gods - after all, all we know were in Cantha or Tyria, right? :)

It's possible. The Elonians did leave to find the Old Gods in the Crystal Desert. So maybe you are right about that.

[Barinthus]

How can the patron goddess of arts be considered 'evil'? ;-)

I agree with Quintus - good and evil are not lens that gods neccessarily view through.

[shadow the hero]

was it not the First God of Death was: djuum? or something like that... that had a Tower in the Underworld, then Grenth showed Up and Destroyed his Tower and Djuum and Became the New God Of death?

[Xunlai Agent]

Yes Dhuum was Grenth's predecessor. Guildwiki has some info on this:

Dhuum was the god of death before Grenth. He is presumed to have been destroyed. Currently, he has only been referred to in the quest dialogue for The Four Horsemen.

Reaper of the Chaos Planes:

"Before the time of Grenth, when death was ruled by a cruel and unjust god, there stood a tower and a throne on this very plain. But Grenth rose up and destroyed the one called Dhuum and shattered down his tower, leaving only these storms of chaos as a reminder of the power that once held dominion here. My vigil over these lands was broken for a time, and I can feel a resurgence of the old taint. Four horsemen approach, riders of Dhuum. Destroy them before they can reclaim this place and throw the underworld into chaos!"

[Ranger Nietzsche]

As far as I know the only god that stands out in some way is lyssa, who governs no elemental type, unlike the other four.

probalby why elementalists hate mesmers so much :P

[Quintus Antonius]

Lyssa represents Chaos, which is considered to be an element in ancient magika.