Envoys: shepherds for the gods?

[Zero RoGuE]

there are five Envoys:

Courier Torivos
Emissary Heleyne
Herald Demrikov
Messenger Vetaura
Shiro Tagachi

And five gods... doesnt take mutch to guess that each one is for each god..
But what evoy is for what god?

Heres my guess.

Courier Torivos:Melandru
Emissary Heleyne:Dwayna
Herald Demrikov:Balthazar
Messenger Vetaura:Grenith
Shiro Tagachi:Lyssa

Any other thoughts?

[Fossa]

From the official guidebook:
"Upon his [Shiro's] death, the Envoys - the immortal beings tasked by the Oracle of the Mists with ferrying souls to the afterlife - called him to join their ranks, and he refused. For two centuries these Envoys, themselves once living beings of great wickedness who serve the Oracle as penace for their mortal crimes, have sought to bring Shiro into their fold."

So no, probably, Shiro, while given the powers of the Envoys never served as one.

[Quintus Antonius]

I wonder what the backstories are behind the Envoys. If they were once as wicked as we are led to believe, you'd think we'd have heard of their exploits before now, except I don't recognize any of their names. Perhaps it has been so long that they have been lost to history, or their names have changed upon becoming Envoys.

On a side note, and this is just my personal opinion, the one three-eyed female bears a resemblence to a wingless Mursaat.

[Zaxares]

I wonder what the backstories are behind the Envoys. If they were once as wicked as we are led to believe, you'd think we'd have heard of their exploits before now, except I don't recognize any of their names. Perhaps it has been so long that they have been lost to history, or their names have changed upon becoming Envoys.

On a side note, and this is just my personal opinion, the one three-eyed female bears a resemblence to a wingless Mursaat.

I'm not sure about Heleyne being a Mursaat... But I think that Messenger Vetaura looks like a Krytan, in terms of racial phenotypes and his garb.

It's unknown if Courier Torivos's head is his real head, or whether it's a mask. If it's his real head, I wonder which race he belonged to? I originally thought he was a Charr, but closer study of his hands and legs reveal that he lacks the claws and bone structure distinctive of the Charr.

[Mularc Templare]

I find your ideas interesting. I didn't even think of Matching them up with the Gods. I'm not sure exactly how you'd relate them to one another but it is something to think about.

I dont know whether anyone has the concept art book form the CE, but if you do I'd considered directing your attention to page 22. For those who dont have the CE (or are waiting for it to arrive due to the delay) This page shows concepts of the Envoys, without their spectral looks...it seems all of them have died or suffered in horrible ways (for example that spike throught the head must be painful) Because they are those who "guide souls into The Mists" They may not be tied to any god or goddess.

Interesting thing is though, in one of the Cutscenes, (the Vizunah Square mission I believe) the Envoys mention that Shiro's "charge" is to stop "dead" souls from leaving the Underworld - not the most amazing of jobs for a warrior of his prowess.

Mularc

[shadow the hero]

Courier Torivos: Melandru: he has a Bull Head and from his mask and body in the CE artbook it look's like he has been up and fight with Something with claws

Emissary Heleyne: Lyssa: a twisted Eye has always been the Symbol of Chaos and is the Symbol of the Mesmer too, While she is beautiful and elegant like Lyssa
Herald Demrikov: Balthazar: you can Chearly see he is a Warrior, i Dont think that is a Horn he has in his Face, because if it was, it wouldnt be bleeding from it, i think it is a Savage kind of Spear, maybe he was in War when he died
Messenger Vetaura: Grenth: by the look of his Weapon ( Which is a Reaper is thing it is called in the CE artbook) his is obviously Servant of Grenth, His name Also reminds of Verata The Necromacer

Courier, Emissary and Herald means Messager or Someone sent on a Mission.

Why Dwanya dont has a Enjoy is Because she is The God of Life, her Realm is the Living World

Interesting thing is though, in one of the Cutscenes, (the Vizunah Square mission I believe) the Envoys mention that Shiro's "charge" is to stop "dead" souls from leaving the Underworld - not the most amazing of jobs for a warrior of his prowess. The Shiro'ken, Summoned Hero'es from the Underworld, Bound into Artifact's with Shiro's Mark that Maybe Corrupts the Soul so it Serves Shiro, in the Sunjiang District Portal's was Open and every 3 or 5 mins a New Shiro'ken was Summoned, so shiro opened Portal's to the Underworld to get the Soul's of the Hero's and Bond them to his Will, and then we got the Constuctions (sp?) is maybe Commander's of the Shiro'ken, Maybe More Legendary and Skilled Hero'es like What Shiro did to Visu and the Other Canthan Hero'es

[Arkhan The Black]

I will just assume that they are all grim reapers that serve Grenth.

[Longasc]

So far I like shadows explanation best.

[shadow the hero]

So far I like shadows explanation best well thank you :grin:

[ShadowSword]

I don't think Shiro was evil though. It was him or the emperor - who would you chose in that situation. If anyone was evil the emperor was evil for plotting to kill shiro just because he was powerfull. And i agree they were like reapers.

[Quintus Antonius]

Why does there need to be a distinct "good" and a distinct "evil". When is life ever like that? Prophecies wasn't like that either, why should Factions be.

If you wish to find your answers, move away from the good-evil polarization.

[shadow the hero]

Shiro was Paranoid, and mostly when People are Paranoid it brings some odd Things to them: Madness, Fear Etc
Some Paranoid People kills! because they fear that or That person....
Clearly when Shiro killed the Emperor, he became Madness itself.
a Man with much Power that is Paranoid , is way bad!
so when the Luxon Champion and the Kurzick Champion slew him, he became so upset with Rage because they killed him, and Wanted Revenge so much that his Spirit became a Wandering hate, Forever Chained in the last Moment of his life with Rage, Madness and Revenge
Shiro was not Good and Not evil, he was Sick

[Mularc Templare]

I must say Shadow [the Hero] your ideas seem to have great weight. This would also explain the other Envoys - all of them look to have died in some horrible way, so being angry and alone would be an explanation - they cling to "life" which they know they can never have, and it is possible Grenth gave them their jobs because he knew they would never except life in the Underworld. It would also semi-explain why Shiro wanted to get back to life - he's in denial.

Mularc

[Quintus Antonius]

To step away from Guild Wars for a moment, the denial of death explanation is actually a common belief to explain the post-life concious projection paranormal phenomenon (commonly refered to as a haunting, ghost, or spirit). The person may not realize they are dead, and thus, their concious energy clings to the area or areas that they felt most attached to in life.

So Shadow's explanation is not so farfetched at all. In fact, I'm quite impressed with his theory.

[shadow the hero]

must Book's and Peoplesay's when a person dies and Becomes a Ghost/spirit it's Emotions(sp?) is Chained in that Final Moment of the Person's Life
if a Women dies of sorrow because her child has died because of someone or likely her, had done something that killed her child, her Spirit/Ghost will wander around the place her child died...

Shiro last Emotions was Rage, Madness and Pain ( these Emotions was also that cause the Jade Wind) His Spirit became Chained in these Emotions, and While he wandered around his Emotion became so Strong it became something that also took over people and they became "The Plagueborn" they Became Mad and Suffer for Great Pain, but did not die.
mainwhile Shiro was upset by getting Revenge and getting back to life...
Remember when he attacked Visu and Chained her into these Artifact's, he knew he couldnt kill her, so he did something she Forever would Hate, He tryed to dishonor her, A Assassin's Honor is more then his/she's Life. so he Corrupted her and was close to Dishonor
same as Archemorus and Viktor, he Destoyed they last chain into the Mortal realm ( the Spear and the Urn )
Now he just needed his Revenge over the Emperor and getting his life back

[Tessalina]

An interesting related thought. *spoilers regarding the Prophecies story line*

Could Shiro shirking the duties requested of him(to prevent souls from escaping the underworld) combined with the other envoys being distracted by his increasing acts of revenge been a contributing factor to the Lich's success in Tyria?

While certainly a large part of the Lich's abilities with the undead is probably due to the archane magics he preformed resulting in Orr's destruction, is it reasonable to assume that, had Shiro been doing his job, the Lich would have been "taken care of" or his undead forces far more limited?

It's an interesting thought at least about a possible cause and effect connection between the two chapters.

[halfthought]

well, it may seem a bit late, but Ive noticed all the envoys have disfigurments, it
seem that torivos had hi head chopped off and replaced with a carving, so I presume that envoys are created to attone for there sins in there life

[Quintus Antonius]

well, it may seem a bit late, but Ive noticed all the envoys have disfigurments, it
seem that torivos had hi head chopped off and replaced with a carving, so I presume that envoys are created to attone for there sins in there life

We know that for a fact actually...it's confirmed in-game, and has been discussed several times here...

[Djinn Effer]

Why does there need to be a distinct "good" and a distinct "evil". When is life ever like that? Prophecies wasn't like that either, why should Factions be.

If you wish to find your answers, move away from the good-evil polarization.

Good is a matter of opinion. :rolleyes:

What I don't get is, why are their names all relative to "messenger", ie - the very definition of envoy - A messenger; an agent. If their soul job was leading people to the Underworld would their names not be relating to guides rather than messengers? It seems more like their purpose was to deliver messages from the gods (maybe?). Actually, thinking about it more.. It could actually be what was said in the storyline with the definition being an agent, but judging from the last event in Factions - How far can we assume their powers reach? Suposivly they're supposed to just lead people to the Underworld, but obviously if they can imprison someone against their will then perhaps its something else all together?

Ierno, just some things to question. :cutie:

[shadow the hero]

What I don't get is, why are their names all relative to "messenger", ie - the very definition of envoy - A messenger; an agent. If their soul job was leading people to the Underworld would their names not be relating to guides rather than messengers


Courier
Emissary
Herald
Messenger = Does Also mean Someone on a Mission to do or deliever something.


Edit: Ding!

[Arkhan The Black]

well, it may seem a bit late, but Ive noticed all the envoys have disfigurments, it
seem that torivos had hi head chopped off and replaced with a carving, so I presume that envoys are created to attone for there sins in there life

I belive that the body modifications reflects their spirits or they are gifts from Grenth as a sign of their authority in the Underworld. Although the warrior with a spike in his forehead might be a tribute reference to Diablo considering the GW devs did participate in making Diablo back in the day.

[Quintus Antonius]

I have a tendency to agree with halfthought here. If these people were indeed wicked as the guide tells us, then it makes sense they died horrible deaths. Evil people rarely ever die in their sleep. Having your head chopped off may have been a sign of an execution.

[FourthVariety]

interestingly enough the yield of Shiro's deathcry did not damage the city, only Luxons and Kuzicks.
Also the Harvest Ceremony is there to worship Dwayna, why would the old Lady imply that the emperor would kill Shiro during a ceremony in the honor of the Godess of Life herself?

The results are obvious, Dwaynas central shrine in Cantha got destroyed 200 years ago.

Very strange is the fact that the fortune teller knew for certain that either one of them was going to die. She could not offer a way out of the situation.
Therefore two forces clashed that day, the only difference it that the fortune teller lady seemed to prefer the outcome of Shiro slaying the Emperor.

After that SOME power was absorbed by Shiro from the Emperor. It is from that point on forward that things go really bad, from simple assassination to total destruction.

so far we have theories of plain madness befalling Shiro, but the complexity of the situation suggests we are missing something. He is called the betrayer, but he himself might be as well just have fallen into a trap himslef.

The current emperor does not yield powers equal to the ones absorbed by Shiro after the assassination. So where did Eperor Angsiyan get these powers?

Just think of how Glint's Flameseeker Prophecy compelled all the others to do the atrocities of Faction. Not knowing them could have caused less carnage there, because many races of Tyria act on it alone. It is the same with the prophecy delivered to Shiro.

[Goldfish God]

The current emperor does not yield powers equal to the ones absorbed by Shiro after the assassination. So where did Eperor Angsiyan get these powers?

Since Shiro stole them it's unlikely that they're hereditary. My guess would be that they're passed down/granted to the newest emperor on their "coronation" from the old emperor. The powers could be transfere from the old emperor (or from his corpse) to a temporary vessel til they could be passed to the new one. However since Shiro stole these powers directly then essentially released them uncontrolled (either because the transfere was not complete and the flow became interrupted, or on purpose) they would likely have been dispersed beyond any ability to recollect them and pass them to the new emperor. The bloodline may still be relevant in that they're the ones who are most compatible with the powers (or at least control over them).

[Quintus Antonius]

When the Emperor is bowed in prayer with the ritualists all around him during the Harvest Ceremony, he is in a direct connection with the Old Gods and becomes a conduit for their power. This power is meant to be distributed to the people of Cantha by the Emperor, but Shiro, by killing the Emperor, stole the power and channeled it into his Death Wail.

[FourthVariety]

Is that official information?
If yes, it would provide us with a motive for setting up Shiro.

Depleting a power source as powerful as the one you described would be an important goal in any war. It also raises the question who orchestrated it and why. Is it the same force working against all the other human kingdoms? Are men like Khilbron really being exploited in their persuit of power?

So far all attacks share the same pattern, they are maximum sized one hitters. Suddenly one person or group gets very mighty for a very limited ammount of time. The Charr pull off the Searing, Orr simply blows up, Cantha gets the JadeWind devastation.

[Quintus Antonius]

The information was a paraphrasing of information from the Prima Mini-Lore Guide, as well as other sources.

[Kahn Of War]

Good is a matter of opinion. :rolleyes:

What I don't get is, why are their names all relative to "messenger", ie - the very definition of envoy - A messenger; an agent. If their soul job was leading people to the Underworld would their names not be relating to guides rather than messengers? It seems more like their purpose was to deliver messages from the gods (maybe?). Actually, thinking about it more.. It could actually be what was said in the storyline with the definition being an agent, but judging from the last event in Factions - How far can we assume their powers reach? Suposivly they're supposed to just lead people to the Underworld, but obviously if they can imprison someone against their will then perhaps its something else all together?

Ierno, just some things to question. :cutie:

Again, sorry for brining up dead posts but I found this bit interesting.

You say maybe they are messengers to the God's...Now I agree they may be messengers but I don't think they are for the God's, I think they may be for the living...After all they come to YOU, the living, although they come to you in death they ressurect you and THEN talk to you....Not talk to you and then res you.

Just a crazy thought I had at 3am.

[Quintus Antonius]

To me, they seem to function in a capacity similar to that of Charon, the riverman who ferried the souls of the dead across the River Styx and into the Underworld.

[Ashin]

When the Emperor is bowed in prayer with the ritualists all around him during the Harvest Ceremony, he is in a direct connection with the Old Gods and becomes a conduit for their power. This power is meant to be distributed to the people of Cantha by the Emperor, but Shiro, by killing the Emperor, stole the power and channeled it into his Death Wail.

Interesting!