View Full Version : Gwen
I know that missing persons isn't exactly the person of the Lore forum, but I have recently been thinking that maybe somebody... Gwen... survived the Searing.
She was there alright, she's in the final cutscene before the Kingdom of Ascalon is destroyed forever in a flash of fire. However, after this, Gwen is nowhere to be found, but there is evidence of her existence, and possibly, her survival.
Although evidence is scarce, there is one thing indicating that she has escaped Ascalon. A tattered girl's cape washes up on the shore of the Stingray Strand in Southern Kryta occasionally... similar to the small girl's cape the player can buy Gwen in Ascalon, before The Searing, telling us she at least made it across the Shiverpeaks, or sailed from Orr (The Cataclysm wasn't until approx. 1 year after the Searing). She definitely didn't drown, as what used to be Lakeside County is far, far away from the coast, so the tattered girl's cape must have been taken to Kryta by land.
Further pointing to her survival is the fact that her mother, Sarah, has been searching the Underworld for two years for Gwen, but hasn't found her
Also, does anybody know about the Tapestry Shred that Gwen would give the player when she is given a small girl's cape, a flute and some Red Iris Flowers? What tapestry does it come from, and what is on it?
Mularc Templare
29-06-2006, 12:34
I personally haven't been able to find that Tattered Cape, but somewhere on the Community forums, it was proposed that there are five items, but only 4 accounted for - Tapestry Shred, Gwen's Boken Flute, Tattered Cape & The Dead Flower.
These items are supposedly littered all across Tyria the continent, and begs the question whether they are all part of a yet to be found quest.
As to Gwen surviving the Searing, I would say it is quite possible - there are a lot of people who survived, and Gwen could have wandered into the right area at the right time...who knows? I think she is alive, but thats a different story....
On the other side, has anyone seen anything linked to Gwen in Cantha?
Mularc
moenbase
29-06-2006, 12:47
Perhaps Gwen is also the Leech. Since he knows about the Prophecies, then he would also know who you are, and that you are the Chosen to help him out freeing the Titans.
Gwen 'helps' you in Pre-Searing because you found her broken fluit. Ofcourse the Leech has to act like a little girl then and jump around in the greeny fields, playing songs on her (broken) fluit.
Ofcourse she can't summon an army of Undead for obvious reasons.
She doesnt get attacked by Grawl, or other beasts.
So perhaps she's kind of guarding ur xxx and making sure u will survive untill the prophecies are forfilled.
And catching that butterfly was perhaps a sign for the Charr to attack because 'you are ready to move on'.
BTW: I believe the Cape nor the broken flute can be found in Post-Searing anymore. I don't know about the flowers, no idea where they should be.
Rob Van Der Sloot
29-06-2006, 14:55
The dead flower was made up, it doesn't exist.
People love spreading that rumour.
Raven Flameheart
29-06-2006, 16:09
Please, this is the lore forum, saying things like Gwen could be the "leech"! is out of place.
From what has been released by Anet, they were planning to add things about it at a later date, but it seems they never got around to it. Huge waste imo. It seems clear that she survived the Searing, but from there is a mystery, as is how the cape ended up in Kryta. I've spent time looking round nearby where it is, and can find nothing of note.
Quintus Antonius
29-06-2006, 18:36
Vizier Kilbron is the Lich, end of story.
As for Gwen, I don't think, whether dead or alive, that she is a significant part of Guild Wars lore. While she is a fan-favorite character (whether hated or loved), in the reality of the game, she was just another victim of the Searing. Just because pieces of her posessions are found in other parts of the world does not necessarily mean she survived. Remember, the Charr did invade the entire world, it's possible they carried her off, as gruesome as that may be. It's also possible that, just like the phenomenon of raining frogs, Gwen was simply blown to pieces, some of which came down in the Sea of Sorrow's and washed up in Kryta.
All the gruesomeness aside, it is also likely Gwen survived. If that is the case, she probably came across the Shiverpeaks just like the rest of the refugees. Just because we don't interact with her again, doesn't mean she didn't survive or follow the same path as the other Ascalonians.
Once again, Gwen is not a significant character, and as such, wouldn't have a big place in the post-Searing world, where she would probably become one of those millions of unnamed people that exist but are never seen.
The jury is still out, but I'm warning everyone now, if this develops into a "Gwen is the Lich/Charr/Mursaat/Forgotten/Glint/Elvis" conspircy thread, I will close it.
moenbase
29-06-2006, 21:51
The jury is still out, but I'm warning everyone now, if this develops into a "Gwen is the Lich/Charr/Mursaat/Forgotten/Glint/Elvis" conspircy thread, I will close it.
Is it ok to make a new thread about that issue then?
Quintus Antonius
29-06-2006, 22:47
Is it ok to make a new thread about that issue then?
Please don't do it in the Lore Forum, as I do not think it is legitamate lore.
Gmr Leon
29-06-2006, 22:51
Moenbase,I'm fairly sure the answer is no. Even if you are being sarcastic..
Also,does anyone find it odd you find Gwen's Broken Flute not to far away from Sardelac Sanitarium?
Art Yi Mor
06-07-2006, 18:55
I don't know much about the Lore of Guild Wars (I'm trying to though!) but surely since Gwen is such a hit with the fans and at the end of the pre-event they had her being part of the seering with the 'Mommies dead, you're all going to die!' type stuff it'd make sense to use her again. She also heals quite well.
Plus little girls are always scarey.
Anyways I just popped by to read up on Dhum, thought I'd chuck my 2 cents in here though.
Nice work everyone, keep it up!
-Art
I didn't find the Tattered Cloak in Kryta, I found it out in Salt Flats in the Crystal Desert. I remember thinking it was odd and I kept it for awhile. I found it in the narrow corridor in the south as you travel north towards Seeker's Passage. This would have been back in August I think...
Tom Nook
08-07-2006, 11:06
Once again, Gwen is not a significant character, and as such, wouldn't have a big place in the post-Searing world, where she would probably become one of those millions of unnamed people that exist but are never seen.
Whilst Gwen is not a significant character, it is obvious that Anet were going to do something Gwen related in post-searing but changed their minds.
It is my opinion that she would have been found dead in post-searing, in order to provoke a sense of loss in those people who enjoyed her company and who formed a bond with her during pre-searing.
It is also my opinion that one of the subsequent Guild Wars Chapters will re-visit Ascalon, allowing access to the northern areas that we have so far been unable to visit (such as Drascir.)
We may therefore see Gwen once again (dead or alive.)
Quintus Antonius
08-07-2006, 18:36
I cannot vouche for ANet or any plans they may have or might not have followed through with; and since this is the Lore Forum, it doesn't matter.
I'm tempted to move this thread to the Community Discussion Forum, but because there are so many discussions currently going on about her in almost every forum applicable, I'm just going to lock this thread for now.
:closed:
Quintus Antonius
21-03-2007, 04:34
Now that we have confirmed information regarding Gwen, I am officially "untabooing" the subject. Feel free to discuss her and her situation at your leisure.
CarbonBasedLifeform
21-03-2007, 07:50
is "GW:EN" a coincidence? i think not.
Barinthus
21-03-2007, 08:51
Err what confirmed information?
EDIT: nvm!!! i didnt see the other thread. *drool*
In the lore thread about GW:EN and GW2 theres a picture of gwen...
(was going to put the link to it here, guess they were deleted). Any way for those that saw it, did the drawing look like she was frightened/lost/confused. Interesting thing to take note of if you saw the pic, she might actually be on the good guys side (or secretly hiding something). Any way, just something I noticed.
Quintus Antonius
21-03-2007, 23:54
Here's me hoping she was in the company of Mursaat.
Here's me hoping she was in the company of Mursaat.
She could have also been raised by the Asuras, they could have found her when she was her short/child self and thought of her as intelligent. Though I still have no clue as to how she grew up so fast? She could be about 16 or 17 in that picture, How much time has past since the searing?
Why the Mursaat though, what connections could she have with them?
Quintus Antonius
22-03-2007, 00:33
None so far as we know. I just said that as a wish to inject the Mursaat into the story. If they don't make an appearence here, we'll have to wait two more years before we have any hope of hearing about them again.
It seems unlikely she'd have been in the company of the Asura because they have an attitude problem and want to enslave taller races. I doubt they'd take care of a child unless she was their subject.
False Visage
22-03-2007, 00:40
Quintus, I had to laugh at loud when you wished she was "bunking with the Mursaat.", boy did I have an interesting thought with that.
I personally think she'll be involved with the Sylvari somehow. It seems like it would make sense, the Sylvari are supposed to be innocent and naive as she once was so who better to teach them about pain and other worldly things than Gwen?
Of course I missed the picture while I was asleep so unfortunately I don't know what she looks like or what the scenery in her picture was.
None so far as we know. I just said that as a wish to inject the Mursaat into the story. If they don't make an appearence here, we'll have to wait two more years before we have any hope of hearing about them again.
It seems unlikely she'd have been in the company of the Asura because they have an attitude problem and want to enslave taller races. I doubt they'd take care of a child unless she was their subject.
ah, true, though everything is speculation at this point, I think GWEN is going to be harder to wait for for me then previous chapters. The holiday season is just too far off now.
Did the article reveal anything on how she might be connected with anything in GWEN?
Quintus Antonius
22-03-2007, 00:45
Haha, hey it does say the Sylvari are a newly born race. Gwen + Mursaat = Sylvari! XD
Haha, hey it does say the Sylvari are a newly born race. Gwen + Mursaat = Sylvari! XD
I think that would only work if Gwen was a Queen Ant. Ohh....now I have strange images in my head... very strange...
Barinthus
22-03-2007, 08:07
Mmmm time for u folks to stop thinking and get back to GW! ;)
I got this gut feeling for three possibilities -
1) Gwen was kidnapped by the Charr. (perhaps they couldn't resist her cuteness and enslaved her. But with the civil war taking place maybe she would ask us to aid the side she is fighting for against the other tribes)
2) Gwen ran to the catacombs, got lost, and while encountering the Asuras; got rescued by the Dredge. (If Factions is to be connected with Gwen the dredge may possibly met the Asura and are at war, so they may have found Gwen and sought to bring her somewhere safe)
3) The Sylvian's and the Asura, maybe they are at war. The surface vs the catacombs... (same idea, Gwen gets captured but during a raid the Sylvian's rescue her)
I'm with Quint in the wishful thinking of Mursaat being brought into this as I am one who supports the theory that Mursaat were naturally good people with good intentions but misguided. But I must say, the idea of bumpin uglies ... that is just very odd.
xD
Laken Cascade
22-03-2007, 18:19
Personally if were goign with the
"Shes been shacking up with dodgy other races" theorem , i feel that the most likely is the Sylvari , it feels her clothes have a more nature loving feel to them although i am a little concerned about the black iris of her eyes
yakslappin
22-03-2007, 23:53
There was an older picture of gwen!? O_O
Was it fan made?
Quintus Antonius
23-03-2007, 00:48
No, it was in the new PCGamer.
yakslappin
23-03-2007, 01:46
-jaw drops- well geuss who thought he could wait for the magazine until now? -bounces off wall-
superiorrunes
23-04-2007, 01:14
She calls him a great warrior, and a hero, but we dont really have much more info on him other than that she says he died when she was 7.
I'm curious as to whether he died, or not, since we never see him in the underworld with Sarah.
(the following is highly speculative, and quite a stretch, i know, but i think it is well within the realm of possibility, with our current disposal of information on the subject.)
My theory is that gwen's father dissapeared into the catacombs of EotN as part of a small scout party of ascalon's heroes to investigate the source of and hopefully cut off the Mursaat. He was likely gone for a few years, which led those above ground to think him dead. However he survived inside the catacombs for those years, busy aiding the Asurans in staving off the mursaat as best they could. Returning to ascalon just before or during the searing only in time to save gwen and take her into hiding as well.
My reason for trying to come with this hypothesis is because Gwen, being just a little girl, has no real excuse for getting into the catacombs on her own, and it is likely that she received some aid in surviving the searing. Her father made the most sense to me.
And another question still unanswered is WHO is her father? If he really is a "great warrior" and "hero" as Gwen makes him sound, perhaps we have already seen or heard his name before but were unable to relate it to this?
Gwen's father = General Kayl? Its a posibility.
EllaSparrowhawk
23-04-2007, 02:19
maybe she's devona's little sister. her dad was a great hero. and considering devona is like 20 and gwen is probabaly about 10, it might work.
maybe she's devona's little sister. her dad was a great hero. and considering devona is like 20 and gwen is probabaly about 10, it might work.
I'm pretty sure Devona would have mentioned it, especially since her little sister would have gone missing, presumed dead.
Even if it had been kept a secret (perhaps Devona's father had a secret affair with Sarah), then I'm sure Sarah would have told us in the UW. She's dead - there would be no reason to keep it secret any longer.
Quintus Antonius
23-04-2007, 02:43
I'm going for the Royal Father hypothesis. All we know is Gwen's father was a great warrior killed in the Guild Wars. But considering how important she is to the world of GW, and that they are bringing her back in EotN for some reason, I wouldn't be surprised if she turns out to be some sort of heir to the Ascalonian throne or some equally predictable plot twist.
Aurora Borielis
23-04-2007, 04:44
I'm going for the Royal Father hypothesis. All we know is Gwen's father was a great warrior killed in the Guild Wars. But considering how important she is to the world of GW, and that they are bringing her back in EotN for some reason, I wouldn't be surprised if she turns out to be some sort of heir to the Ascalonian throne or some equally predictable plot twist.
ohhhhh, i could definately see this. That grown up picture also looks like a typical "reluctant" heroine/princess role. Although how great would it be to have a fellow mesmer ruling Ascalon! Although I could see and inside joke starting where everyone would say she is useless and that she should be kicked from the throne and replaced with a nuker :/
Quintus Antonius
23-04-2007, 05:02
Why do you think Gwen is a mesmer? She heals you with a flute, and burns down a city at the end of betas. Meaning she is either a E/Mo or a Mo/E. If you don't count the beta apparence as legit, and I don't, then she is still a Monk. Although, I suppose should could change her second profession!
Why do you think Gwen is a mesmer? She heals you with a flute, and burns down a city at the end of betas. Meaning she is either a E/Mo or a Mo/E. If you don't count the beta apparence as legit, and I don't, then she is still a Monk. Although, I suppose should could change her second profession!
Well, most people seem to think she's a mesmer because she appears to be wearing green mesmer clothes. She also mentioned in pre-searing that she liked mesmer clothes, and would either be a mesmer for that reason, or else a warrior (I'm going off Guildwiki quotes here).
So, Gwen was at least 7 during pre-searing, prophecies takes place 2 years after the searing, and NF is 3 years after that... so she's at least 12 during NF. I wonder how far in the future GW:EN will be set, and how old she was during pre. Then we could pinpoint her exact age.
I think she looks so reluctant/soft-spoken/secretive in her picture because she's suffered immense psychological trauma. I wonder if our reunion with her will bring her joy or great pain?
My vote goes for Mesmer, she looks oddly familiar to that mesmer chick on the game site with the green clothing as stated and of course the flute so she probably had some interest in plays.
I think she looks so reluctant/soft-spoken/secretive in her picture because she's suffered immense psychological trauma. I wonder if our reunion with her will bring her joy or great pain?
Very true... would she even remember at that state is the question. If she's bread into a society such as the Asura culture, she may as well start off as an enemy who doesn't seem too cut out for the job who later then is revealed as that young girl. Either way, no doubt even with the green attire she looks rather ragged so wherever or whoever she is with, things must not be so... hmmm... formal?
Galen Ubal
23-04-2007, 07:19
I'll note that a zero-level Orison heals for 20 - the amount that Gwen heals for, as it happens. I could do the same as a R/nothing in pre-Searing, after taking (but not cashing in) the first secondary profession quest, without any levels in Healing/monkness at all.
I suspect at that point she has no profession to speak of, though she obviously has some magical talent. I also discount the Beta weekend closer where she's nuking everyone; cute joke, and I wish I'd been playing at that point, but not to be taken seriously.
Anyway, I have no problem with her being a Me/whatever - it seems likely, given her pre-Searing comments.
So far as the unlikelihood of her getting into the catacombs on her own....let's see, it's raining giant crystals and fire, everyone's dying - what would you do? Me, I'd head for a tunnel too!
Quintus Antonius
23-04-2007, 07:30
I personally believe she'll end up being a Me/W, based on the picture from the Prophecies boxart. I was the first to suggest that they'd use her as that girl. I disagree with this, as it doesn't follow known facts, but personally, by all laws of chance and physics, Gwen is dead. So I don't really care what they do with her now. We saw her standing right where the giant crystals fall in the cinematic. So, yeah, if they want to make her a Me/x, I don't really care. I'm just saying, based on what we've seen, she was leaning more towards E/Mo, or Mo/E.
As for her "I want to be a warrior like daddy, but mesmer's have prettier clothes" comment. I wanted to be a firefighter when I was her age. I'm not. Kids say lots of stuff that never happens.
Yeah it was a huge joke, I agree. She was kind hearted but quite possibly she is either captured by the Asura or appointed some high position amongst them. At the time she was a little girl so she could of found the Asuras adorable while they themselves did not know what to make of her.
Quintus Antonius
23-04-2007, 07:47
The main problem I have with Gwen's survival is that she empitomized the loss of the Searing. She was the definition of innocence, and represented the world before the Searing and Cataclysm. One of peace, where little girls could have adventures with heroes without fear, and the biggest threat is a rogue bull.
The Charr took that innocence, from Ascalon and from Gwen. That is the whole point of her character, that is why she was the only child in the game. The developers in an early interview said they added Pre-Searing after the fact to make the players feel a true sense of loss after the Searing. Since Gwen is only in Pre-Searing, it makes sense that she was added as the main point of this emotional connection. Gwen dies, Ascalon dies, and we survive. That is what motivates us to do what we do. That is why we follow Rurik, and do everything we can to save the refugees. It is because Gwen died, it is because the Charr ruin Ascalon.
Gwen's survival ruins the whole emotional complexity of the game. It completely cheapens the artistic statement of the Searing. It'd be like Obi Wan and Quigon Jin not having died and Darth Vader turning out not to be Luke's father afterall. Or Private Ryan actually being in the Navy and at home already.
This is a little bit of a stretch, but the Dynastic Spirits say something about another true blood heir left, could Gwen be the bastard child of Varesh Ossa's father and Sarah, who might have visted Ascalon on a diplomatic trip and took advantage of Sarah's husband being dead (or off in the Guild War)? Ya, thats a lil bit of a stretch but i got nothing better to explain what the Dynastic Spirits say for Elona lol.
False Visage
23-04-2007, 12:33
Why must Gwen be the heir in that case? There could be tons of candidates and many of them in Elona. Heck, I'd say that Koss and Mehlonni would be much more viable candidates, Koss for his networking and leadership skills and Mehlonni for her sense of justice and moral duty.
As for Gwen, you raise a point Quintus but you forget something else. Gwen became a symbol for the players of Guild Wars. If she had truly be intended to die and be a symbol of what we lost so succinctly, I'm sure she would have appeared in the UW. She became something identifiable that people could easily recognise and considering her use in the Japanese site, a symbol of GW as well.
But we didn't find her in the UW, which was a mystery. Also scattered around were evidence of where she'd been. Clearly the broken flute and cape really should have been completely vaporised if she'd truly been killed when the crystal impacted where she stood (or close by). As a symbol of the mysterious nature of some things in Guild Wars, it feels rather satisfying she would be a Mesmer.
Ranger Nietzsche
23-04-2007, 17:09
I hope ANets kidding and she stays dead
Quintus Antonius
23-04-2007, 17:13
We saw Rurik get his head chopped off, but he comes back later. If Gwen has anything to do with the Sylvani, and I'm betting she does. I bet they go for the "best of both worlds" approach and say she was dead but her purity allowed the Asura/Sylvani/Norn/Mursaat resurrect her. Can you say Spock?
Anyway, I do think Gwen may end up being royality. The Tapestry Shred is her most valuble position. I'm betting her father gave it to her mother and her mother gave it to her. Where are Tapestries traditionally found? Castles!
The main problem I have with Gwen's survival is that she empitomized the loss of the Searing. She was the definition of innocence, and represented the world before the Searing and Cataclysm. One of peace, where little girls could have adventures with heroes without fear, and the biggest threat is a rogue bull.
And now we'll get Gwen post-searing: an innocent girl turned killer, whose mental trauma will have turned her into something we no longer recognize. Gwen could still be a motivating factor for our heroes even if she survived the Searing - now our motivation becomes to find the little girl we failed to protect, and she if she'll forgive us. I'm willing to bet that, at first, she won't, and will then become a thorn in our side until the day she goes one step too far...
As for Elona's true-blooded heir, I've stated in another thread that Koss is the most likely candidate we have so far. Reasons:
1) He's Kournan, like Turai and Varesh
2) He was born into nobility, as evidenced by his family's estate (think Duke Barradin)
3) The name Koss bears a vague similarity to Turai's surname, Ossa
4) As the only hero with both a family history and a romantic interest, he's obviously an important character
Gmr Leon
23-04-2007, 23:56
Actually..Something interesting to think about when it comes to Gwen. We find her flute near Sardelac Sanitarium, she may have been put into care there for the traumatic experience of the Searing. Later on, if the Tattered Girl's Cape can still count, the caretakers may have decided they couldn't sufficiently take care of her and sent her with Rurik's group migrating to Kryta. Whilst setting up the Ascalon colony she may have wandered off and then been captured by Caromi Tengu in North Kryta Province. Later on she may have hitched a ride on a boat during a Tengu raid in a village near a river, like one in the Talmark Wilderness.
This boat may have hit a rock or a storm may have happened and assuming the above is so far right landed near the coast of Stingray Strand. Thus maybe leading to her wandering in that area and eventually somehow making her way into the Maguuma, this assuming the Sylvari hypothesis/theory is correct. To end all of this, the Preserved Red Iris Flower may also support the boat hypothesis, and as far as we know may also hint at the water current directions. It also may have simply floated towards Lion's Arch, a Canthan trader picked up, sailed to trade at Kamadan, but then on the trip home was attacked by Corsairs. Digging through the cargo, they find the flower and just throw it out thinking of it as trash, it later then floats into the little inlet at the Barbarous Shore.
All of the above makes sense for the most part, assuming we take all the evidence into account and piece it together. Oh, almost forgot, how do we explain if she aspired to become a Mesmer? Mesmers deal with mental cases as shown in a quest in Post-Searing;one may have soothed her during the traumatic experience during and after the Searing and became a sort of mother-figure in such a harsh time.
Rastapopolous
26-04-2007, 21:30
As for her "I want to be a warrior like daddy, but mesmer's have prettier clothes" comment. I wanted to be a firefighter when I was her age. I'm not. Kids say lots of stuff that never happens.
maybe, but you obviously had way more than ten different professions to choose from :azn:
Oddly enough, GW professions are not jobs. They are learned fighting styles. A mesmer can become an actor just like a kung-fu master can become a movie star.
maguskwt
27-04-2007, 04:20
The main problem I have with Gwen's survival is that she empitomized the loss of the Searing. She was the definition of innocence, and represented the world before the Searing and Cataclysm. One of peace, where little girls could have adventures with heroes without fear, and the biggest threat is a rogue bull.
The Charr took that innocence, from Ascalon and from Gwen. That is the whole point of her character, that is why she was the only child in the game. The developers in an early interview said they added Pre-Searing after the fact to make the players feel a true sense of loss after the Searing. Since Gwen is only in Pre-Searing, it makes sense that she was added as the main point of this emotional connection. Gwen dies, Ascalon dies, and we survive. That is what motivates us to do what we do. That is why we follow Rurik, and do everything we can to save the refugees. It is because Gwen died, it is because the Charr ruin Ascalon.
Gwen's survival ruins the whole emotional complexity of the game. It completely cheapens the artistic statement of the Searing. It'd be like Obi Wan and Quigon Jin not having died and Darth Vader turning out not to be Luke's father afterall. Or Private Ryan actually being in the Navy and at home already.
I don't really agree that gwen is suppose to epitomise the loss of Pre-Searing.There are other things for that like for example Lady Althea and the visual desecration of Ascalon. Lady Althea was a beatiful and talented mesmer and the fiance of the heir to the throne. Rurik and her were gonna get happily married. A very important figure. And because she's an adult and a very capable mesmer you would think that she would survive and also want her to survive. And when we did her quest the npc gives you hope that she's "missing", only to find out in the end that she was being burned alive by the charr. Then you go like "awwwww...what a shame...poor her...poor rurik...poor althea's dad (forgot his name)". So to me Althea represents the loss of searing more.
On the other hand gwen was a defenceless little girl. Logic tells you that she won't survive such a brutal annihilation. But because of your relationship with her you would want her to survive even though it's illogical. You see there's a conflict btw logic and what you hope and I think anet played that nicely. And then you find a broken flute here and a tattered cape there and then you think "maybe just maybe..." but then your common sense says even if she survived the searing there's no way she could've survived the wilderness with the charr all over the place. So then you get to the UW and you find her mother sara still looking for her. Gwen was a mystery from the beginning. So I don't mind Anet bringing her back at all and actually looking forward for it. It gives an opportunity for an emotionally complex reunion. How did she survive? What has become of her? Will she recognise you? For all you know she could be a high ranking character for a grp that you are fighting against. That would be quite dramatic.
Maybe Anet shouldn't have released her pic and revealed too much about gwen in PC Gamer. They should've simply just said that you will meet an "old" friend. It would be more interesting to find out while playing the game. now they sounded a bit too desperate. I mean titling the expansion GW:EN is enough...
Ranger Nietzsche
27-04-2007, 04:25
i hate that girl and this thread.
i only hope PC gamer was lying.
and i also hope this thread might one day have lore in it. rather than being a gwen fan thread in the lore forum for some reason.
maguskwt
27-04-2007, 04:27
i hate that girl and this thread.
i only hope PC gamer was lying.
and i also hope this thread might one day have lore in it. rather than being a gwen fan thread in the lore forum for some reason.
erm...gwen is part of the lore of GW my friend...what's your definition of lore?
Ranger Nietzsche
27-04-2007, 04:34
saying: "I hope gwens a mesmer" is not lore
talking about Gwens role in the game as a symbol for innocence is not lore since it breaks the 4th wall
so what part of this thread is
maguskwt
27-04-2007, 04:44
saying: "I hope gwens a mesmer" is not lore
true...
talking about Gwens role in the game as a symbol for innocence is not lore since it breaks the 4th wall
How is this different from talking about the roles of balthazar, the great destroyer, mursaats and seers?
Gwen's survival ruins the whole emotional complexity of the game. It completely cheapens the artistic statement of the Searing. It'd be like Obi Wan and Quigon Jin not having died and Darth Vader turning out not to be Luke's father afterall. Or Private Ryan actually being in the Navy and at home already.
I don't think it ruins it at all Quint. She's older and more ruggish it seems, she still has lost that "childish innocence" we knew her for. Isn't that what happens when we grow up anyways, everyone as a whole loses that aspect upon growing up and depending how one grows up they could represent what they may have been against when they were younger. In this case, the destruction that was caused could not be prevented and in doing so Gwen may have well just developed a harsher attitude towards events that have passed, are taking into action, and will come to pass. She might even be mean spirited which in a sense resembles her dieing as a child... making the way to adult hood.
...Gwen may have well just developed a harsher attitude towards events that have passed, are taking into action, and will come to pass. She might even be mean spirited which in a sense resembles her dieing as a child... making the way to adult hood.
Gwen meet Cynn. Cynn, meet your clone :grin: .
Rob Van Der Sloot
27-04-2007, 12:50
I'm going to have to agree with Quintus here. The whole point of Gwen, was that the players felt connected to her. After the Searing lots of players kept hoping she might be alive, even though there is simply no chance that she did. The mystery surrounding Gwen is basically nothing but our inability to let go. If she was to suddenly magically reappear in Eye of the North, it would completely ruin her part in the world of Guild Wars.
Some questions are simply not meant to be answered. To finish Gwen's quest you need only realise that she is dead, and drag her belongings to your trashcan. Just let go.
I'm going to have to agree with Quintus here. The whole point of Gwen, was that the players felt connected to her. After the Searing lots of players kept hoping she might be alive, even though there is simply no chance that she did. The mystery surrounding Gwen is basically nothing but our inability to let go. If she was to suddenly magically reappear in Eye of the North, it would completely ruin her part in the world of Guild Wars.
Some questions are simply not meant to be answered. To finish Gwen's quest you need only realise that she is dead, and drag her belongings to your trashcan. Just let go.
1.) I was happy knowing Gwen got squashed because personally she annoyed me.
2.) It wouldn't be magic but a question of luck. Current theories has Gwen running to the catacombs so she probably avoided getting crushed by all the large chunks of debris and enemy balistas.
3.) I don't think it would ruin it at all. Again, Gwen is older. When you age you lose that same innocent regardless. The symbol can still be identified if you look at it from another perspective in this case it would be symbolic instead of upfront hardcore (black and white)
Ranger Nietzsche
27-04-2007, 16:16
true...
How is this different from talking about the roles of balthazar, the great destroyer, mursaats and seers?
show me a post where we discuss balthazars role as part of a story, rather than his role as a God in this realm and i'll agree with you.
No one ever said "the mursaat are a symbol for evil in GW" they said "The mursaat ARE evil"
Talking about gwen's symbolism as a character in a story is breaking the 4th wall.
Talking about Gwen's symbolism is analysis, and if this isn't the forum to perform analyses in then please find me the one that is. Besides, Quintus was the first to post about her symbolism - if the forum mod can do it I fail to see why we shouldn't be able to. The problem with keeping discussion about Gwen within the story is that we have next to no background on her, aside from dialogue and a tiny family tree.
I think that Gwen, rather than representing the loss of the Searing, should be symbolic of the hope that springs from that loss. We lost everything to the Searing; everything except Gwen. She was our last chance to have something good come of that disaster; the one thing besides revenge that would motivate us to play our part.
Gmr Leon
28-04-2007, 00:43
Troal, I think Nietzsche is speaking out of frustration really..Frustration out of the thread's existence on a character he purely hates. Seems like it anyway and I know I've had past experience of that sort of frustration.
Quintus Antonius
28-04-2007, 01:08
Come on now, Leon, the only one allowed to pass judgement here is me.
maguskwt
28-04-2007, 04:59
Talking about gwen's symbolism as a character in a story is breaking the 4th wall.
:huh: ...I honestly do not understand how talking about gwen's symbolism in prophecies break the 4th wall...After you read a book don't you analyse the story? Does it make the understanding of the book less enjoyable? Does it destroy your suspension of disbelief? Do we break Gwen's character or does gwen break her own character? If nothing else we are developing Gwen's character and playing along with the story...I know we might not be strictly following anet's story but a little bit of manipulation of the 4th wall is more enjoyable...it's not a complete destruction of the 4th wall...
EDIT: But then again I'm not an expert in literature or film...so pls enlighten me if my thinking is wrong...
Quintus Antonius
28-04-2007, 07:07
I agree, I think analysis is fine. I remember an episode of the Boondocks where they presented a hypothectical scenario in which Martin Luther King Jr. was actually alive, but was in a coma for 30 years, instead of dead (like real life). Let's suppose this scenario came true, you may fill in any famous person whose death represented a significant cause. Would it be breaking the fifth wall (the one between reality, and another reality, in reality...ok...) to analyze his life and his significance on the Civil Rights Movement in America? No I don't think so. In the same way, it does not really break the fourth wall to analyze the significance of Gwen's life versus Gwen's death in Guild Wars.
If we follow an absolutely rigid interpretation of the fourth wall, the use of the phrase "Guild Wars" except when refering to the Guild Wars, would be a violation of the wall.
Ranger Nietzsche
28-04-2007, 18:57
If we follow an absolutely rigid interpretation of the fourth wall, the use of the phrase "Guild Wars" except when refering to the Guild Wars, would be a violation of the wall.
And I think if someone attempted to use the title of the game as justification for the actions of some of the characters then that would not qualify as lore.
Either way this isn't the first time I've disagreed with what deserves to be in this forum and what doesn't. And it won't be the last. And most of the time I lose. It's QA's forum and he can keep what threads he wants. But this isn't a forum where what belongs and what doesn't is a clear line, and discussions about the appropriateness of certain threads shouldn't end with one persons opinion.
But the way I see it, this thread was closed once by QA, and reopened because of "new information." However no one is discussing "new information" they are discussing things like the Iris flower, the searing, and everything else that was open to discussion already when QA closed it once.
Anyway. I concede.
P.S. Leon, this has nothing to do with my personal dislike for the way Gwen has been cultivated, I've argued for the closing of threads about plenty of characters and figures that I like as well.
Quintus Antonius
28-04-2007, 19:19
And I concede that you do have a point. I'd also say that a symbolism analysis of Gwen being alive is new information, as prior to this we did not know whether or not she was alive or dead.
That said, we should try to keep this thread on track at least.
Gmr Leon
28-04-2007, 20:34
P.S. Leon, this has nothing to do with my personal dislike for the way Gwen has been cultivated, I've argued for the closing of threads about plenty of characters and figures that I like as well.
Sorry about that, a misunderstanding on my part.
Goldfish God
28-04-2007, 21:40
And I concede that you do have a point. I'd also say that a symbolism analysis of Gwen being alive is new information, as prior to this we did not know whether or not she was alive or dead.
That said, we should try to keep this thread on track at least.
lol, Schrödinger's Gwen
lol, Schrödinger's Gwen
that's awesome :P
Arya Dragonstone
11-05-2007, 03:27
From all I read here, it's a tad improbable that Gwen could survive by escaping into the catacombs because something or someone in Ascalon, not sure right now, said that the catacombs collapsed under the pressure of the Searing.
superiorrunes
12-05-2007, 01:26
the ENTRANCE to the catacombs.
Quintus Antonius
12-05-2007, 03:02
The one with the open roof, or the one that collapsed? Either way you'd be pretty screwed.
We don't see the collapsed entrance to the catacombs until two years after the Searing. Though it's highly improbable that the catacombs didn't collapse during or immediately after the Searing, it's also possible that Gwen would have had enough time to traverse the catacombs.
Pyros Balifor
12-05-2007, 04:54
... The mystery surrounding Gwen is basically nothing but our inability to let go. If she was to suddenly magically reappear in Eye of the North, it would completely ruin her part in the world of Guild Wars.
Some questions are simply not meant to be answered. To finish Gwen's quest you need only realise that she is dead, and drag her belongings to your trashcan. Just let go.
I think it would nicely tie together the very beginning of the game (GW:Proph) and the end of the game (GW:EN), as GW:EN is supposed to do - wrap up GW and lead into GW2.
But hey - it's just a game. I guess we'll find out for sure what's the what this fall. :flowers:
My theory is that Gwen was picked up by the refugees when they were fleeing Ascalon. As she was just a kid, a group of refugees protected her on the way through the gates of Kryta. She was possibly going to be a "chosen" as well, but, an old wise refugee who was protecting her from the odds, decided to send her to Elona with a group of corsair traders. She grew up with corsairs and possibly then decided to visit the charr homelands to dish out revenge as they destroyed her childhood home, Kingdom of Ascalon. In her quest, she met the Norns and the Asuras; She realized that a greater evil still lurked and she should protect her new allies from anihilation. I believe, this is the plot of GW:EN.
- Vela
From all I read here, it's a tad improbable that Gwen could survive by escaping into the catacombs because something or someone in Ascalon, not sure right now, said that the catacombs collapsed under the pressure of the Searing.
Only the entrance. The ground isn't caved in in such a manner that would give evidence to suspect that the entire catacombs had collapsed. This is also mind you, an area of at least a hundred feet, from the surface to the sealing... which is why I say there's a lack of evidence to prove just how much the catacombs would gave in by. We're talking what, only about a few feet of rock layering the sealing? That's not enough to cave in an entire network...
ShadowReapr
12-05-2007, 16:04
Personally, I believe she was abducted by the Charr warband and taken south as they travelled to Orr. Once the cataclysm happened, she escaped captivity in amidst the madness. After this, I believe she fell in with the Deldrimor Dwarves. The only reason I believe this is because of what happens next - sounds a bit loose, yes? But anyway, I believe this because of a little fact in the fourth lore story on the official site (http://www.guildwars.com/theworld/tyria/story/lore-04-thedwarves.php), particularly this part:
The vessel had a thick wooden mainmast and three billowing sails, not unlike the ships Devona had seen off the Tarnished Coast. But where the sea-going vessels had a deep V-shaped hull, this one was flat on the bottom for traveling over the snow and ice.
I'm in particular referencing the association with the Tarnished Coast. As we believe, it is a place where many Asura reside, for lack of a better term. Now, if Gwen had gone from the Shiverpeaks through to the Tarnished Coast, it might explain how she fell in with the Asurians. The point at which she escaped from the Charr, near to Orr, would explain how her... cape? was washed up on the Krytan shore. As for exactly why the Deldrimor dwarves would travel to the coast, I am unsure. Though considering our operation in the Ring of Fire, and our subsequent escape through boats to Droknar's Forge, it can be figured that they certainly have the means. After all, would it not have been just as easy to travel to the Amnoon Oasis (I figure our presence in Kryta would not have been appreciated)?
And yet, we never see any of those who went with us return home. The Tarnished Coast, a region which is clearly well known, has it's name for reasons we do not yet know - one easy theory would be a spot of corruption from the Ring of Fire and Abaddon. Another might be because of some sort of travesty or man-made problem leaving it uninhabitable.
And yet, once more I ramble. I'm not too fond of the catacombs theory, though it is logical. I always assumed it would cave in almost immediately - after all, getting pelted with mystic crystals the size of castles is hardly going to have a small immediate effect. I also wonder exactly who would see refuge in a place where the dead rest (and don't, for that matter), though in the heat of the moment it is understandable that anywhere that has a roof would be good cover.
Further more, can we be sure that they're connected to the Great Asurian Network? How much truth is in the claim that the catacombs must be connected other than the fact the word catacombs were dropped in previews in relation to the Asurian places? I'm not entirely sure. Though, I accept that it may very well be - personally I believe Sorrow's Furnace to be a similar thing (especially since where in God's name did the Stone Summit get the magic to animate the Iron Forgeman?).
I'm in particular referencing the association with the Tarnished Coast. As we believe, it is a place where many Asura reside, for lack of a better term. Now, if Gwen had gone from the Shiverpeaks through to the Tarnished Coast, it might explain how she fell in with the Asurians. The point at which she escaped from the Charr, near to Orr, would explain how her... cape? was washed up on the Krytan shore. As for exactly why the Deldrimor dwarves would travel to the coast, I am unsure. Though considering our operation in the Ring of Fire, and our subsequent escape through boats to Droknar's Forge, it can be figured that they certainly have the means. After all, would it not have been just as easy to travel to the Amnoon Oasis (I figure our presence in Kryta would not have been appreciated)?
We don't know anything about Gwen in Eye of the North except that she may be in it. Her cape could have washed up in Kryta from virtually anywhere in Tyria (or Elona for that matter - the Preserved Red Iris Flower in the Barbarous Shore must have travelled up the river Elon up from the ocean) that surrounds the Sea of Sorrows. And currently, as of 1075AE, the Asura still dwell in the Depths of Tyria, they are only drawn out into the open by earthquakes unleashed by the Great Destroyer some time in the recent future.
Unknown Hatred
12-05-2007, 20:12
We don't know anything about Gwen in Eye of the North except that she may be in it. Her cape could have washed up in Kryta from virtually anywhere in Tyria (or Elona for that matter - the Preserved Red Iris Flower in the Barbarous Shore must have travelled up the river Elon up from the ocean) that surrounds the Sea of Sorrows. And currently, as of 1075AE, the Asura still dwell in the Depths of Tyria, they are only drawn out into the open by earthquakes unleashed by the Great Destroyer some time in the recent future.
It's been pretty much guaranteed that Gwen is in GW:EN, it specifically states that you would meet someone 'you knew as a child in prophicies' and the image accompying that passage is someone who looks very much like an adult Gwen.
Quintus Antonius
12-05-2007, 20:40
And she is the only child in Prophecies.
And she is the only child in Prophecies.
Katie and Cheswick too, and Cheswick may have had a sex-change operation to fit the bill :P
I don't doubt that Gwen will be in Eye of the North, but I think we should not make assertions until we know she is. Definitely not completely speculative possible backstories.
Unknown Hatred
12-05-2007, 21:12
And she is the only child in Prophecies.
only child we personally knew in prophicies, i mean, their hardly going pick some random orphan from Ascalon and make them the star of GW:En are they?
And i'd like to point out that Katie only appears during wintersday, making her an unlikely candidate.
Also like to point out that there a no named child like NPCS from Ascalon Onwards, excluding Wintersday etc.
Laken Cascade
19-07-2007, 19:07
Well we now cna confirm it was GWEN hinted at and also we know where she went during the Searing , north into the chaar homelands with several other guards
LunaLuna
19-07-2007, 21:43
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7471/gwener1.png
Toughed up innocence, eh? ;)
If we say she was 10 in pre-sear, she'd be about 16 there.
Blastsniper
19-07-2007, 23:12
Ohgod no..
Looks like she is ready to get her hands dirty and kill stuff.
Karn the Betrayer
20-07-2007, 00:17
Luna where ddi u get that pic?
Latest trailer on the GW site, where else?
LunaLuna
20-07-2007, 01:57
http://www.guildwars.com/products/eyeofthenorth/gallery/video/default.php
Ok so wow... we get to see the Norn transform, that will be neat! ^_^ "Hulk smash" I have a feeling the Norn male we see will have a Bruce Banner attitude.
Karn the Betrayer
29-07-2007, 18:17
talking about norn transformations you know that concept art inside the pre release cd case thing are they norn transformations or variations of Charr?
also can someone clarify to me how old Gwen was in profecies cause pre sear she must be 10 ish 2 years go by since the searing so she must be 12 plus (I maybe wrong) the 6 year gap from prophecies and EtoN that would make her 18 years old.. and shorter than all the men she is in charge of
so if she fled north how did her cape end in Kryta?
so if she fled north how did her cape end in Kryta?
Since the cape has been "removed" from the game (doesn't drop anymore) the information that it dropped there at all might be no longer valid lore-wise.
The preserved iris flower in Elona is still way off of her possible way into Northern Tyria though ...
As for the time elapsed and/or her age ... 2 years after the searing the player begins his adventure (1072 AE) ... Nightfall is supposed to happen in 1075 AE (+3 years) .. GW:EN + another year (1076 AE).
So thats 6 years since the tutorial and the searing (as said in the trailer). Her age in the tutorial is never actually mentioned as far as I know. So all we can do there is guess ...
Karn the Betrayer
29-07-2007, 23:18
personally she looks more 18 years old than 15
Quintus Antonius
29-07-2007, 23:51
Well I believe she's 16 in GWEN, but regardless she does look older. But you figure that all the war and hardships will make anyone age a bit faster.
With today's society, you can never guess the age of a person.
There are 13 year old girls with the bodies of 18 year olds running around here for crying out loud! :huh:
Anyway, with the GW:EN mini manuscript, it might tell us Gwen's age, like they did with Rurik & co in the previous ones.
Quintus Antonius
30-07-2007, 00:36
It'd be nice if someone could link to a digital copy or post some of the tidbits of it here on the Lore Forum for those of us who bought the digital online store version of the pre-order.
Gmr Leon
30-07-2007, 00:40
It'd be nice if someone could link to a digital copy or post some of the tidbits of it here on the Lore Forum for those of us who bought the digital online store version of the pre-order.
I think Karuro was actually referring to the Manuscripts that are to come with GW:EotN itself. Reason for calling it the Mini-Manuscripts is because there was some mention of it being significantly shorter than the normal Manuscripts.
Scutilla
30-07-2007, 00:46
There's a six-year gap between Pre-Searing and GWEN. I'd peg her as about 11 in Pre-Searing, 17 now.
so if she fled north how did her cape end in Kryta?
I guess we'll find out when the Bonus Mission Pack is playable :wink:
There's a six-year gap between Pre-Searing and GWEN. I'd peg her as about 11 in Pre-Searing, 17 now.
I can see that being the way it is. That or being 12before and 18after.
EDIT: Pity we have to way another 3 months before getting our hands on the bonus pack. Most of us will be done in a week, storylinewise, for GW:EN >.>
Karn the Betrayer
30-07-2007, 09:51
I can see that being the way it is. That or being 12before and 18after.
EDIT: Pity we have to way another 3 months before getting our hands on the bonus pack. Most of us will be done in a week, storylinewise, for GW:EN >.>
? three months for bonus pack you mean that cd witht he bonus weapons? thats already out and besides 3 months time GWEN will already be out so there would be no ned for the bonus cd.. unless you want the bonus weapons.. BTW there aint gonna be collectors version of GWEN dispite wot everyone spamming in LA and Kamadan is saying
? three months for bonus pack you mean that cd witht he bonus weapons? thats already out and besides 3 months time GWEN will already be out so there would be no ned for the bonus cd.. unless you want the bonus weapons.. BTW there aint gonna be collectors version of GWEN dispite wot everyone spamming in LA and Kamadan is saying
I think he means the bonus mission pack you get from the online store.
I think he means the bonus mission pack you get from the online store.
Correct. The Bonus Missions will not be out until November. Which is a bummer, I'll be done with GW:EN, storyline wise, in about a week.
Karn the Betrayer
01-08-2007, 12:19
personally I don't like to rush a game for two reasons it spoils the fun and another i work during the week so its hard to even get to play when u are really exhhausted from work... anyway it would make sense to have the bonus mission in GWEN it self
personally I don't like to rush a game for two reasons it spoils the fun and another i work during the week so its hard to even get to play when u are really exhhausted from work... anyway it would make sense to have the bonus mission in GWEN it self
Well I would prefer the later myself however they wont be releasing that content until between October 31 till the end of November.
I have lots of free time on my hands but unlike games like CoH, EQ, and WoW... Guild Wars just doesn't have that much content per Chapter to keep someone like me going at it for a few months. Never the less however I already spent my $30 in the onlinestore so I'm waiting for the bonus.
Quintus Antonius
01-08-2007, 17:15
Guys, this is the Lore Forum. If you want to discuss the Bonus Pack as a product, please use one of the thousands of threads in the CDF.
manorbier fable
08-08-2007, 12:44
gwen?
http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guildwarseyeofthenorth/images.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=tabs&tag=tabs;images
gwen?
http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guildwarseyeofthenorth/images.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=tabs&tag=tabs;images
If you're referring to this (http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/218/938739_20070807_screen004.jpg), then yeah, that's Gwen.
Ad Nauseum
23-08-2007, 03:50
I know that missing persons isn't exactly the person of the Lore forum, but I have recently been thinking that maybe somebody... Gwen... survived the Searing.
I think you might be on to something.
rex silverbane
04-10-2007, 20:52
gwen survived the searing and was captured by the charr. she then escaped and joined the ebon vanguard, its in eye of the north (wich is shortened to gw:en)
gwen survived the searing and was captured by the charr. she then escaped and joined the ebon vanguard, its in eye of the north (wich is shortened to gw:en)
Yea, we all pretty much know that by now..
Notice that these are posts from 2 months ago ._.
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