A New Threat Arises (spoilers and speculation)

[Santax]

***THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS FROM BOTH THE PROPHECIES AND FACTIONS CAMPAIGNS, AND ALSO SPOILERS RELATING TO THE FESTIVAL OF THE DRAGON***

From the years 1070-1072AE, and 1582CC (depdending on whether you use the Mouvelian or Imperial calendars), the people of Tyria (the world, not the namesake continent) have seen a lot.

The Charr invasion & Searing, the Cataclysm, the White Mantle, the Undead attacks, the Affliction, the attack of the Titans and the Deldrimor-Summit Civil War, not to mention the wars between the Canthan vassal states.

Chapter 3 will bring, almost certainly in Elona, a new challenge for the players to face with new foes to fight. Although, as the smaller battles are faced, as is normally the case with continuous games, a new, greater challenge will arise. Some of you will have guessed, no doubt, while others haven't.

This new challenge won't come from the namesake continent, Cantha, or even Elona. It won't even come from Tyria. It will come from... The Rift itself.

A lot of you will remember the January 19th Update, and when the Tombs of the Primeval Kings were overrun (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Game_updates/20060119#Major_Update_-_Thursday.2C_January_19_2006) by creatures of the Underworld. These made the Heroes' Ascent tournament too dangerous, and the tournament had to be relocated to Heroes' Ascent on the Canthan Battle Isles.

Most people would simply assume that this was an attack on Tyria by the Underworld, but the more educated among us will know that Grenth would have no reason to attack Tyria. Experienced travellers in the Underworld, who have spoken to the Reapers and done the quests will know that the creatures plaguing the area, such as the Terrorweb Dryders and Bladed Aataxes, are not servants of Grenth, but demons.

This brings several implications with it: Firstly, how powerful exactly are the Old Gods? If Grenth has demons attacking his realm, and Balthazar is under attack by the Shadow Army, then this must mean that there are other powers at work OTHER than that of the Old Gods. Why, Quintus himself suggested a while ago that the Mursaat once worshipped the Old Gods, but stopped because they found something that compromised the Old Gods' position as gods.

The second implication being... what? In charge of all forces, there is always a commander or leader of sorts. Those demonic forces almost definitely invaded the Underworld and the Tombs of the Primeval Kings through a Chaos Rift under command, not on a whim.

The third and final implication is, what happens next? These demons have overrun the Underworld and a small (albeit important) part of Tyria already, and successfully too. There will be a third strike...

...but there has been already.

While Cantha was festive, and party was for once on the agenda after the tragic passing of Master Togo, and the Affliction, a Chaos Rift like the one in the Tombs opened in Raiyan Cave, and the Grasp of Insanity once more gripped the world.

A group of Lesser Grasps, smaller and less powerful (but not less formidable in the pastoral and undefended Shing Jea Island) versions of the creatures that overran the Hall of Heroes not so long ago, plagued the eastern half of the Island, ravaging Yetis, unfortunate partygoers worshipping at the Shrine of Maat, the Crimson Skull and even the Naga, entered Raiyan Cave through a Chaos Rift like the one in Tombs, and started laying waste to the lush hills of the Island. It is only through the fast action of the player and Imperial Guard Musashi that this invasion suppressed and stopped, and the Chaos Rift closed, before the Festival became in immediate danger.

But this leads me to thinking, how long before the more powerful creatures arrive, like the Darknesses that corrupted and desecrated the Tombs of King Elswith, King Kole, King Millius and King Wenslauss (among other important nobles such as Lord Victo of Orr). Will the players keep encountering these creatures "on the side", or finally focus their efforts in proper missions and quests against them? Only time will tell.

[Quintus Antonius]

Very good report, Santax.

However, I propose another theory: The return of the old god of the Underworld whom Grenth overthrew. Who else has the cause, power, and motive to cause this? Also, we know for a fact that the demons causing problems in the Underworld (reaper quests) are servents of this old Old God.

Is this a sign of an upheaval within the Pantheon?

[Docho]

I don't recall where I read it, but the gods simply began building another world after they left Tyria. Is it simply not like that that the Gods simply aren't looking back at Tyria because they are busy with something else?


Anyway, nice post.

[Scutilla]

Very interesting theories, I like. In any case, I do hope they do something more with the Darknesses story now that they've included them in the Dragon Festival, whether it's a tie-in to Chapter 3 or adding a Factions entrance to Tombs or whatever.

[Gmr Leon]

Tombs of King Elswith, King Kole, King Millius and King Wenslauss (among other important nobles such as Lord Victo of Orr). Santax,where did you find these names? I want to look into that info. Also,Quintus,the god in which Grenth overthrew,did he/she/it have a name? Not to mention where do you find this information,in the Underworld?

Not questioning your information,I just want to learn more about those subjects.

[Quintus Antonius]

The nobles' tombs mentioned are encountered when playing through the new PvE content at the ToPK. In light of recent circumstances, a expedition may be necessary to explore the creatures and circumstances of the Tombs.

Two lesser known gods of the pantheon of Guild Wars, Dhum and Menzies, the old god of death before Grenth, and the god of destruction and half-brother of Balthazar respectively, are whom I was speaking of, Dhum in particular since he still has a prescence in the Underworld. I believe it is possible that these corruptions of darknesses and chaos, for lack of a better term, are directly caused by the forces of Dhum making an attempt to sieze the Underworld and quite possibly Tyria as well.

The information on Dhum is gained from the completion of quests in the Underworld, and the information on Menzies is gained from quests in the Fissue of Woe.

(Off-topic thought: Menzies is the god of destruction in Guild Wars, Mehunes Dagon is the daedra lord of destruction in the Elder Scrolls, the names sound similar, is it possible this is what the Mursaat found out--that the gods were not dieties but rather something lesser with diety like powers similar to the daedra of the Elder Scrolls?)

[Gmr Leon]

Quintus if you set up an expedition into the Tombs I'm all the willing to come. Seeing as I've never fully seen them or explored them it would be enlightening to myself and the rest of us.

Also,thanks for telling me the name of the past god of death. I knew of Menzies though Dhum I did not.

[Shoitaan]

Ah, Thanks to Quintus for referring people to this thread from the Q&A forums where I was making my speculations

As I said in that thread in the Q&A's, me and a guildy are thinking the 'surprise' at the end of the Event might just end up being either
1) a Canthan entry into the underworld (Tomb of Kings Underworld)
or
2) a new high-end PvE area in Cantha resembling the Tomb of Kings underworld.

Given the mobs are the same and the 'rifts' are very definetely the same this atleast to me is plausable... the guardmans Ryijo (sp?) I think will turn up near the final day and give people the quest that will lead them to the 'lobby'/outpost that will be connected to this place.

And just to throw a completely wild and most likely completely wrong idea into the mix..
I seem to recall a thread long ago that was along the lines of 'why are the charr coming down south anyway?'... I dont recall if the answer was an assumption or it was written in lore but anyway.. the 'answer' that some people gave was there was something driving them south...

Relevant? :)

[shadow the hero]

hmmmmmm.. :/ maybe someone ( Some Evil Army or something Worser) found Lord Odran's Secret to Open Portals/Rifts to gain Entrance(sp?) to everything in Tyria and Cantha?
and it seems that They also got Problems Keeping Portals/rifts Open long Enough for the Grasp to get Though the Portal, or maybe the Grasp's is Simply a Scout Force?
Then is the Question: Who is Opening the Rifts to Cantha and Tyria? and Why?


Off-topic: I still wonders what Grenth was Before he Defeated Dhum, Demon? Demi-god? or maybe a Envoy?

[Quintus Antonius]

I do feel it is the forces of Dhum opening the Chaos Rifts, as they originate in the Underworld and are not of Grenth, but I could be wrong.

Before Grenth defeated Dhum, he was still exactly what he is now, just not with the title he currently holds. For more on the speculation surrounding the Old Gods, please see my newest lecture and subesequent discussion: the Odran Code.

[Qwonland]

I do feel it is the forces of Dhum opening the Chaos Rifts, as they originate in the Underworld and are not of Grenth, but I could be wrong.

Before Grenth defeated Dhum, he was still exactly what he is now, just not with the title he currently holds. For more on the speculation surrounding the Old Gods, please see my newest lecture and subesequent discussion: the Odran Code.

I think the it can be Menzie who open the rift. Well I my memory serves me right. I remember the Zaishen in ToPK, said something that thy are the Bathazaar Believers and they were sent to ToPK for fighting the "Evils" in ToPK. Since Menzies was defeated by Balthazaar. It might be him who return with a new power and to claim over his half-brother's throne as the new god.

Off-Topic: Sorry if I make any mistake. I am new here and after reading "The Odran code", I want to join to learn about history of Tyria and Cantha (and the gods).

[Quintus Antonius]

I think the it can be Menzie who open the rift. Well I my memory serves me right. I remember the Zaishen in ToPK, said something that thy are the Bathazaar Believers and they were sent to ToPK for fighting the "Evils" in ToPK. Since Menzies was defeated by Balthazaar. It might be him who return with a new power and to claim over his half-brother's throne as the new god.

The reason I suspect Dhum or his supporters is because of the fact that the Rifts lead to the Underworld. If they led to the Fissue of Woe, or some other realm, I'd suspect Menzies, but to our current knowledge, Menzies doesn't have a presence in the Underworld, nor motivation to conquer it.

Off-Topic: Sorry if I make any mistake. I am new here and after reading "The Odran code", I want to join to learn about history of Tyria and Cantha (and the gods).

We have an introduction thread, if you wish to make your presence know, it's a good bet to introduce yourself there. Oh, and welcome to the Lore Forum!

[Zayren]

Tombs of King Elswith, King Kole, King Millius and King Wenslauss (among other important nobles such as Lord Victo of Orr). Santax,where did you find these names? I want to look into that info. Also,Quintus,the god in which Grenth overthrew,did he/she/it have a name? Not to mention where do you find this information,in the Underworld?

Not questioning your information,I just want to learn more about those subjects.

Besides what Quintus said, the greens you get for beating ToPK, have names related to these people, ex: Victo's Blade, Elswyth's Recurve Bow, Kole's Torment, Milius' Pillar, Wenslauss' Faith.

[The Dawn Raven]

The fact the new quests have Terrorweb Dryders and other UW monsters in them supports Quintus's UW Dhum theory.

[Santax]

Haiju Lagoon and Jaya Bluffs have been overrun with terrifying creatures from the Underworld, that are laying waste to all who dare challenge them.

[The Stiehl]

(Off-topic thought: Menzies is the god of destruction in Guild Wars, Mehunes Dagon is the daedra lord of destruction in the Elder Scrolls, the names sound similar, is it possible this is what the Mursaat found out--that the gods were not dieties but rather something lesser with diety like powers similar to the daedra of the Elder Scrolls?)

Quintus, I just beat TES IV: Oblivion, and my head still hurts. I hope Guild Wars doesn't become that complex. :tongue:

But, consider this: The fact the ToPK Rift Leads to the Underworld was because the Tombs itself led to the Underworld. Sure, the monsters are taking over the Underworld(s), but they may not be based in them.
Perhaps some extra-dimentional plane that has a beef against Grenth? Perhaps Duhm was exiled to that plane. (Mankor Camoran said "Daedra cannot die!" Maybe Duhm can't die either?)

[Quintus Antonius]

Quintus, I just beat TES IV: Oblivion, and my head still hurts. I hope Guild Wars doesn't become that complex. :tongue:

But, consider this: The fact the ToPK Rift Leads to the Underworld was because the Tombs itself led to the Underworld. Sure, the monsters are taking over the Underworld(s), but they may not be based in them.
Perhaps some extra-dimentional plane that has a beef against Grenth? Perhaps Duhm was exiled to that plane. (Mankor Camoran said "Daedra cannot die!" Maybe Duhm can't die either?)

Yes, and just like the Heart of Lorkhan was all that remained of that particular daedra, there may be something still remaining of Dhuum with which his followers are trying to resurrect him.

It may even be like Champions of Norrath, and Champions: Return to Arms, when Innoruuk was defeated, he was broken into shards, and in the sequel when his followers tried to resurrect him, they had to collect these shards.

My point is that Dhuum's followers obviously have a purpose more than just revenge. Perhaps they are either serving Dhuum who is in another realm, or actually trying to resurrect him.

[Shanaeri Rynale]

Since these are the forces of Chaos, is there any evidence to support they come from Lyssa's realm?

A new area of the God's is well overdue for exploration, maybe this is the prelude to third region of the Gods?

[Quintus Antonius]

Since these are the forces of Chaos, is there any evidence to support they come from Lyssa's realm?

A new area of the God's is well overdue for exploration, maybe this is the prelude to third region of the Gods?

I think to settle this, "Is it Lyssa" argument, we need to properly analyze the facts.

Fact 1: They are the forces of "Chaos"

Fact 2: They are originating from the Underworld

Now, what common event ties those two facts together?

Chaos in the Underworld...

Where Dhuum's tower once stood in the Underworld is a place known as the Chaos Planes.

It's because Dhuum seems to be so strongly tied to the chaotic forces that I highly doubt it is Lyssa and strongly suspect the former god of death.

[Durza the Shadeking]

The Mini-Game Boss The Fury, apparently is a commander in this army.

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/2957/gw6231nf.th.jpg (http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw6231nf.jpg)

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/157/gw6240qq.th.jpg (http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw6240qq.jpg)

[Santax]

...and in the sequel when his followers tried to resurrect him, they had to collect these shards...
Yes, that would provide sufficient motivation to invade the Tombs of the Primeval Kings and Shing Jea Island, they were searching for something. But what? I don't think GW is a complete rip-off of TOE, but suppose there was some kind of artefact, or artefacts that could summon Dhuum to the physical plane of existence. I have no evidence to support the theory that Dhuum is in fact based in the Underworld, but rather in some kind of "outer" plane of existence. Grenth surely doesn't tolerate these demons attacking innocent players and his reapers.

Assume this for one second:

Dhuum resides in the Underworld, with his demons, generally unhappy with this. The Reapers and Grenth, unhappy with this, seek to destroy him to restore balance to the realm of death (think of the Shakespearean play Julius Caesar here). Dhuum is overthrown, but the remains of his demon army remain. An eternal battle ensues.

One of Dhuum's generals realises that there may be a way to (insert whatever you want here - revive Dhuum, bring Dhuum to the physical plane of existence, build a weapon to destroy Grenth - it's speculation, remember), and that they need a certain object or artefact of power that lies in the mortal realm to bring him back.

Then three of Dhuum's high-ranking officials, The Darknesses, travel to the Tombs of the Primeval Kings with some of the remnants of Dhuum's army, and invade them, defiling and - here comes the suspicious part - pillaging every tomb, as evidenced by the green items they drop. Now, I don't think The Darknesses as Mesmers can do much with warrior weapons, so they must have had an ulterior motive to opening the tombs, like they were looking for something else.

This is where we zoom forward to the present. Another one of Dhuum's officials, The Fury, a Elementalist Banished Dream Rider boss, opens a Chaos Rift in Raiyan Cave, which releases Lesser Grasps onto the Eastern half of the Island. This Chaos Rift is quickly shut down by the players, who are left hanging, wondering if this mysterious Captain Rujiyo will ever arrive to tell them more of these creatures. Upon his arrival, he takes the players to Haiju Lagoon, that is overrun by the demons. The players soon discover that Jaya Bluffs, Seitung Harbor and even Tsumei Village are overrun, and the Chaos army is quickly gaining ground and coming towards the Monastery.

Just before the end of the festival, Emperor Kisu comes to personally thank everyone who has helped fight against the Chaos army, and gives a short speech about Emperor Hanjai and the survival of the Empire, followed by giving a Ceremonial Dragon Mask to the Heroes that saved Shing Jea Island. However, just as he is concluding his speech, The Fury himself makes an appearance with his Grasps of Insantiy, seeking to steal the celestial essence that will be used in the final ritual in which the Emperor summons the Celestial Dragon of Cantha and ends the Festival. It would appear that the Chaos army have found what they came for. This next bit is variable. If the players manage to get the Celestial Essence to safety, then The Fury will retreat to Sunqua Vale and his forces will be defeated. If he wins, then the Grasps of Insanity will come and wipe out every player in the district.

Now this poses a question for us: Is it the celestial essence that the Chaos army seek, and if so, why? Can Dhuum really return, or can Grenth really be defeated?

Discuss.

[Darkstar The Legend]

With the end of the dragon festival the grasps were attacking SJM, these grasps were capable of talking, does this mean that these grasps are intelligent creatures and not just some mindless destructive creatures as most assume them to be?

[Quintus Antonius]

Santax, I like your post, and I think it is very plausible and logical.

As for the Grasps speaking, I thought the same thing Darkstar, and I do believe they have some kind of intelligence.

[Volitar]

Yeah, I saw them talking too. They said "Resistance will only prolong your agony!" if I remember correctly.

Santax, you certainly propose quite an interesting theory. It does seem like they are searching for something and that there is something quite sinister to their attacks. Also, the fact that the commander of the Chaos forces invading the island has the Elementalist boss glow does lead me to believe that we will be facing him at some point. I don't see why Anet would give him a boss glow and not have us face him at some point.

In trying to uncover some clues regarding the forces of Chaos, Dhuum and Menzies I decided to check out the old update for when Tombs was overrun by the Chaos forces. Something caught my attention;

The Tomb of the Primeval Kings has been overrun by the enemies of Balthazar. The Zaishen Order recognizes that many of you may wish to help conquer this foe. While this is admirable, only those truly devoted to the teachings of Balthazar should attempt to enter the Tombs.

The bolded part is what caught my attention. The fact that they are referred to as the "enemies of Balthazar" is pretty interesting. Perhaps it is just because the Zaishen worship Balthazar, or it is something more. Also, when you win in the event, The Fury says ""Flee shadow minions! This is a battle we cannot win!" Then there is the fact that the Acolyte in the Monastery states these are the forces of Chaos (Dhuum) and Destruction (Menzies).

Perhaps Menzies and Dhuum (or if he is dead, those Demons who still worship Dhuum/trying to revive him/whatever) have formed an alliance. It would explain why both the Fissure of Woe and The Underworld are being invaded at the same time.

[Quintus Antonius]

Perhaps Menzies and Dhuum (or if he is dead, those Demons who still worship Dhuum/trying to revive him/whatever) have formed an alliance. It would explain why both the Fissure of Woe and The Underworld are being invaded at the same time.

There may actually be another possibility, such as a literal anti-pantheon of "evil" gods, who are against the known pantheon.

[Gmr Leon]

Kind of like the pantheon of gods in Norse mythology,the Vanir and the Aesir? If so,then I wouldn't be surprised. There always have to be good gods and evil gods to have a balanced equilibrium.

What I find odd is how they describe these creatures as an ancient evil.I mean,the location(Tomb of the Primeval Kings)is ancient,but does it really mean these guys are as old as the Tombs?

If they are,I wouldn't be surprised,but it's always good to put fuel to the fire and question if they are or not.Especially since the human's perception of ancient,and say,the Forgotten's perception of ancient could be wildly different considering their lifespans.

[Arkhan The Black]

Well maybe this evil force wanted to use Shiro as a tool to cripple Cantha and later the world. Realizing that they had failed they wanted to launch an assault while Cantha was still weakened by the plague. The best place to do so is in an area where the Kurzick and Luxon forces wouldn't be stationed.

[Santax]

Well maybe this evil force wanted to use Shiro as a tool to cripple Cantha and later the world. Realizing that they had failed they wanted to launch an assault while Cantha was still weakened by the plague. The best place to do so is in an area where the Kurzick and Luxon forces wouldn't be stationed.
But why? People have suggested that, after completing the Factions campaign, the Island was unprotected due to the death of Master Togo, and since the Envoys were busy running after Shiro, the "rift" (for lack of a better word) left a gap that allowed souls to "leak" through.

But with the theory that I presented above, and the one that you posted, doesn't say why they invaded. They presented logical explanations as to how they came to be on the Island, but not why.

[Shokk Mjollnir]

Well, concerning The Fury's "boss aura" it may have been like what they did with pets in pvp, you know how they have that whole red glow-ness if ur on the red team, and the "enemy forces" in the SJM celestial essence game were the red team, considering the name "enemy forces" was red. I do agree he'll probably be a boss, but I wouldn't yet say he's and Ele just yet, Volitar

PS: First Post in the Lore Forums W00t

[Goldfish God]

Well, concerning The Fury's "boss aura" it may have been like what they did with pets in pvp, you know how they have that whole red glow-ness if ur on the red team, and the "enemy forces" in the SJM celestial essence game were the red team, considering the name "enemy forces" was red. I do agree he'll probably be a boss, but I wouldn't yet say he's and Ele just yet, Volitar

thing is, when that's applied, it's usually applied to a whole team. Neither the grasps nor the players gained the normal PVP effect.

[Quintus Antonius]

I must agree with Goldfish on this one. The effect wasn't global, so I don't think it was a PvP effect.

As for what Santax says, he is right, we know the how's and the when's, but the why still aludes us. That said, the answer will come in time.

[ShadowSword]

Since they're trying to gather items of magical power what can they do with that magic? Only two possibilities seem likely either they are tying to ressurrect, free or in some other way bring back to power the 'Evil' Gods (I'll call them that for now as we have no idea as to motives nor numbers) or open up many more rifts of magical nature, most likely for the invasion of Elona.

[Arkhan The Black]

I have been thinking if this new threat is also the same that is behind Shiro's tragedy. Maybe it was this evil force that drove Shiro insane and intended to use him as a mortal champion to fight the gods. It could also be this evil that has gifted Shiro with the means to ravage Cantha with a plague and teaching him to break free from the Underworld.

If you think about it Shiro might have been manipulated to kill Cantha's spiritual leader the Emperor. If he would not been struck down that day the rule of Cantha would never be the same again.

Even if Shiro was not aware of it he might have served as a tool for the preparation of the rice of the evil force that fight against the gods.

[Santax]

I have been thinking if this new threat is also the same that is behind Shiro's tragedy. Maybe it was this evil force that drove Shiro insane and intended to use him as a mortal champion to fight the gods. It could also be this evil that has gifted Shiro with the means to ravage Cantha with a plague and teaching him to break free from the Underworld.

If you think about it Shiro might have been manipulated to kill Cantha's spiritual leader the Emperor. If he would not been struck down that day the rule of Cantha would never be the same again.

Even if Shiro was not aware of it he might have served as a tool for the preparation of the rice of the evil force that fight against the gods.
Citing various sources here, evidence shows that the Fortune Teller that foresaw the downfall of the Empire and forced Shiro to betray the Emperor had ties to the Am Fah, who of course want to kill the Emperor. However, whoever Shiro was working for (whether he was aware that he was working for anyone or not), he definitely needed to have practiced dark rituals, as seen in this (ftp://ftp.guildwars.com/movies/GuildWarsFactions-CinematicTrailer-High.zip) video, tro unleash the Jade Winds upon Cantha.

So we now know that Shiro's motivation had nothing to do with the forces of Chaos, but the rituals that he practiced may yet have, as personally I have never seen an Assassin perform such a ritual in all of Cantha.

On a side note: Curiously, the Am Fah had a resistance to the Affliction while it lasted. While I am not suggesting that the dark rituals had nothing to do with the Am Fah, who probably could not possibly comprehend the outcome of the Emperor's murder, it may be so that some of the driving force behind the Jade Wind was powered by sheer willpower alone, and that he may have "chosen" targets.

[lavenbb]

I think the jade wind and the afflicted are seperate. In the factions manuscripts they say the afflicted are caused by one getting too close to "Shiro's malevolent spirit", so yes, the afflicted are chosen. Since the affliction is not contagious, every member of the afflicted is chosen. Whether Shiro is affiliated with the Am Fah, I wouldn't draw conclusions yet.

The jade wind is something else. It looks like there's some trick to Shiro's blades, It could've been a powerful artifact (the end game green gives some interesting weapon stats). Yet, we're not told how he got them, nor how he made it work. It is vampiric in nature, and legends had it told that Shiro could use it to suck the Emperor's life force out. We're not told in what way could that life force be used. Did that force caused the Jade wind? maybe. Did that force made him an envoy? maybe.

Another point to note is that in order to resurrect himself, he had to do "research" as stated by Mhenlo. We're not sure if someone had told him that it is possible, provided him means to, or that he just figured it out himself.

[lifeinthefridge]

my first post on the lore forums

I was thinking you know those celestial things you had to pick up during the mini game event? Well obviously this was done for other purposes then just stopping the blessing the dragon of cantha was supposed to bring. I have never been in a losing district before does anyone know what happens. And yes shiro does choose all his afflicted because he in that one cinema morph those 2 canthan people and he states they will be part of his army. Shiro then would go to the underworld when killed correct?

Btw do you think that the grasps were trying to collect the celestial essences for some special reason and btw i thought there was already an entrance to to underworld and Fow from Cantha from zu ku corridor

[Zaxares]

On a side note: Curiously, the Am Fah had a resistance to the Affliction while it lasted. While I am not suggesting that the dark rituals had nothing to do with the Am Fah, who probably could not possibly comprehend the outcome of the Emperor's murder, it may be so that some of the driving force behind the Jade Wind was powered by sheer willpower alone, and that he may have "chosen" targets.

The source of the Am Fah's resistance to the Affliction is the artifact called the Chalice of Corruption. While it is not known exactly how the Am Fah are deriving a resistance to the plague from the artifact, Brother To Sha as well as Imperial Guard Hanjo pretty much state right out that the Chalice is the cause of it.

I think there may be some truth to the idea that the evil force behind the Chaos Army was also the motivating force behind Shiro's downfall. If you recall the Factions cinematic, it states that 'evil walked the shores of Cantha. It rode the wind, and stalked in the shadows'. Curiously, we never see any hints of this in the Factions storyline as we play through the missions; it all seems to decisions undertaken by Shiro himself.

Perhaps the leader of the Chaos Army DID have a role in it all, whispering poisoned ideas into the heads of both the fortune teller, Shiro and others. The fact that it occured 200 years ago means little; in the realm of spirits and gods, schemes are often played out over the course of centuries or even millenia. Still, until we know more, this is all just supposition.

[blue cheez]

my first post on the lore forums

I was thinking you know those celestial things you had to pick up during the mini game event? Well obviously this was done for other purposes then just stopping the blessing the dragon of cantha was supposed to bring. I have never been in a losing district before does anyone know what happens. And yes shiro does choose all his afflicted because he in that one cinema morph those 2 canthan people and he states they will be part of his army. Shiro then would go to the underworld when killed correct?

Btw do you think that the grasps were trying to collect the celestial essences for some special reason and btw i thought there was already an entrance to to underworld and Fow from Cantha from zu ku corridor


During the final part of the event, the grasps obtained points by killing players holding celestial essenses. Therefore the grasps probally have no interest in getting the esssense themselves, nor does the celestial dragon have any connection to them. What i think is that the grasps might be sending out chaos in order to distract the real reason as to why they came. Perhaps The Fury was sent out as a distraction to move all of cantha's forces to the island while the army can freely search for something on the mainland of cantha. Maybe they were after the remains of shiro or something..

[Quintus Antonius]

During the final part of the event, the grasps obtained points by killing players holding celestial essenses. Therefore the grasps probally have no interest in getting the esssense themselves, nor does the celestial dragon have any connection to them. What i think is that the grasps might be sending out chaos in order to distract the real reason as to why they came. Perhaps The Fury was sent out as a distraction to move all of cantha's forces to the island while the army can freely search for something on the mainland of cantha. Maybe they were after the remains of shiro or something..

I think it is also prudent to note that the forces are representing chaos. What better way to cause chaos then to incite mass confusion at a revered and holy event?

I really like the idea you just proposed, although I think we are placing to much emphasis on Shiro. Whatever this is was bigger than Shiro, but definantely used the chaos (pun intended) he caused to launch their attack. It seems very opportunistic, and it's also interesting to note, we don't know who or what was controlling Shiro, who or what transformed the Lich (all we know is he suddenly turned evil after the Cataclysm), and who or what is behind the forces of chaos.

There is something big going on here, because chaos seems to have begun being incited all over the world, from Tyria to Cantha. One cannot ignore the link between these creatures and the Tombs for instance.

[Last Hope]

I was thinking you know those celestial things you had to pick up during the mini game event? Well obviously this was done for other purposes then just stopping the blessing the dragon of cantha was supposed to bring. I have never been in a losing district before does anyone know what happens. And yes shiro does choose all his afflicted because he in that one cinema morph those 2 canthan people and he states they will be part of his army. Shiro then would go to the underworld when killed correct?


When you lose...the grasps of insanities just go crazy and kill everyone...the furies also say something but i cant remember what it was..something about the end is near or we must retreat to our dark lord

[Courage]

Lord Odran
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Lord Odran was a powerful mage. He was the first human (and mortal) to ever enter the Rift. Because the Rift touches all things and connects to all worlds, he used the Rift as a gateway in exploring these different worlds. For his transgression into the realm of heroes and gods, the spirits of the Rift destroyed him. Upon his death he left many portals to the Rift scattered throughout many worlds. Humans now use these portals to access the Rift in the tournament to win the Favor of the Gods.

[edit]History
A noble goal

Lord Odran, a great arcanist specializing in the study of temporal distortions, desired to make a plea to the gods. Like King Doric many centuries before him, he had sought to bring peace to his home land (unknown at this time) by communicating with the Gods. He wanted to undo the Exodus of the Gods and bring back the gods to restore peace and harmony.

In 851 AE, through the use of a powerful spell of his own device and the sacrifice of many souls, he succeeded in opening a portal to the Rift.

Spiteful Spirits

His arrival in the Rift caused an outrage among the spirits of the mighty fallen heroes who are ensconced in the Hall of Heroes. For a soul to be accepted into the Hall it has to have accomplished great deeds worthy of the attention of the Gods, yet here was a mortal who had found his way amongst them by way of trickery! The spirits of the Rift assaulted the archmage, but could not harm his physcial body, for it had been centuries since any of them had interacted with the physical world, and none of them did so in their shadow form.

Exploration

Lord Odran used his access at first to communicate with the gods, but then used the Rift's connection to all the worlds to investigate them. He left a portal in each world he visited, hidden by powerful wards and enchantments. It is unknown if he abandoned his original quest or if the gods turned him down.

The End

Eventually, the spirits of the Rift were able to figure out how to interact with the physcial realm, and on his last visit to the Rift, Lord Odran's body was shredded by angry spirits. His death caused the wards and enchantments hiding his portals to fail. Ironically, in their wrath to destroy the intruder, the spirits opened the way for many more mortal intruders. Lord Odran placed the portals in the most treacherous of places, hoping that the fear of death would turn away the meek, yet humans - with their greed and creativity - were able to find the portals and revisit the Rifts.

Today, the spirits who were once so enraged at a single intrusion, now find amusement in the visiting mortals, dividing them into opposing groups and having them fight for sport in the Hall of Heroes.

Retrieved from "http://ob.gamewikis.org/wiki/Lord_Odran"

Dhuum and Menzies might have somthing to do with this character here, using the portals he created to get their 'shadow army of destruction' into the corporal realm.

Now I too find it very viable to say chapter 3 will take place in Elona. The Crystal Desert even being part of Elona, as stated by the acolyte Norge.
Lord Odran might have been from Elona, just my guess. . .well let me know what you think ..(1st post in lore!)

[Quintus Antonius]

Some of that article is creative speculation and not backed up by facts in game or official Lore. The other part is just paraphrasing and direct quoting from the European and American versions of the Manuscripts.

For reference, this is from the edit history of that article: (cur) (last) 11:05, 17 March 2006 Karlos (the manual biography with a few artistic touches :))

Artistic touches have no place in science, and I seriously question the validity of any article that makes claims without backing up their assertions or citing that they are only speculating.

For instance, no where does it say Odran was human, no where does it say his goals were "noble", it simply says he wanted to speak to the gods like Doric before him, and no one knows what his original quest was, or if he even had one.

We here at TAOS's GWO division have much more on Odran than GuildWiki or any other site, and our research is often what inspires such site's content. Do a search for Odran here in the Lore Forum to find out what we have uncovered and theorized on this powerful Mage Lord.

The rifts being used by the Chaos Army are not those opened by Odran. First of all, the rifts seem to be able to be opened at will, at any spot. Second, they appear to be one way, at least the ones on Shing Jea Island were. Third, Odran's portals are usually found only in "treacherous" locations. Shing Jea Island hardly qualifies.

We have seen that the Old Gods can travel to and from Tyria at will. Dhuum and Menzies, being part of this pantheon, almost assuredly have the same abilities and therefore would have no need for Odran's portals.

[Santax]

Some of that article is creative speculation and not backed up by facts in game or official Lore. The other part is just paraphrasing and direct quoting from the European and American versions of the Manuscripts.

For reference, this is from the edit history of that article:

Artistic touches have no place in science, and I seriously question the validity of any article that makes claims without backing up their assertions or citing that they are only speculating.

For instance, no where does it say Odran was human, no where does it say his goals were "noble", it simply says he wanted to speak to the gods like Doric before him, and no one knows what his original quest was, or if he even had one.

We here at TAOS's GWO division have much more on Odran than GuildWiki or any other site, and our research is often what inspires such site's content. Do a search for Odran here in the Lore Forum to find out what we have uncovered and theorized on this powerful Mage Lord.

The rifts being used by the Chaos Army are not those opened by Odran. First of all, the rifts seem to be able to be opened at will, at any spot. Second, they appear to be one way, at least the ones on Shing Jea Island were. Third, Odran's portals are usually found only in "treacherous" locations. Shing Jea Island hardly qualifies.

We have seen that the Old Gods can travel to and from Tyria at will. Dhuum and Menzies, being part of this pantheon, almost assuredly have the same abilities and therefore would have no need for Odran's portals.
Menzies, certainly, but I'm not so sure about Dhuum. His Chaos Army came to Cantha with a purpose, and if indeed he did suffer defeat at the hands of Grenth, then he surely wouldn't retain the strength needed to pass through the Chaos Rifts, or he already would have done so by now.

[lavenbb]

Menzies, certainly, but I'm not so sure about Dhuum. His Chaos Army came to Cantha with a purpose, and if indeed he did suffer defeat at the hands of Grenth, then he surely wouldn't retain the strength needed to pass through the Chaos Rifts, or he already would have done so by now.

Even if he regained his power, he wouldn't just come rushing at Grenth because he'll just get defeated once again. There must be a plan, that takes time to mature, then he can strike.

[Quintus Antonius]

Even if he regained his power, he wouldn't just come rushing at Grenth because he'll just get defeated once again. There must be a plan, that takes time to mature, then he can strike.

I agree. Dhuum, or at least, his forces, are planning a calculated strike, probably beneath Grenth's nose. Also, we don't know if the Chaos Army has attacked anywhere else; we do know they haven't attacked elsewhere on Cantha or Tyria beyond what we've seen, but until representatives arrive in Elona or whatever the lands of Nightfall are called, we won't know the status of that nation/continent and if they've had interactions with this latest threat.

I can guarentee one thing though: this is just beginning.

[shadow the hero]

First of all, the rifts seem to be able to be opened at will, at any spot. Second, they appear to be one way, at least the ones on Shing Jea Island were. If they Opened at Will, Why Wouldn't the Chaos army just Place them within the Shing Jea Monastery? It Must Take Alot Power Aiming for the Right spot To open the Rift and Even More Power to Keep them Open. The First Portals Opened many "Stupid" places, What Would a Chaos Army in a Yeti cave? or a Crimson Skull camp? and Atlast After 3-4 try they Managed to Open a Portal where No Humens was and Keep it Open so more grasp to come though.

[Quintus Antonius]

It's important to keep in mind that even by will, things take practice. I'm an archer, I also throw knives, and practice shooting (guns) (remember kids, always do these sports under supervision in approved ranges). Now, when I first started these sports, I was able to get my arrow/knife/bullet close to the target, but not directly into the bullseye, even though I was "willing" my projectile to hit the target, it wouldn't simply because I was inexperienced. As I did it more (still by my own will), I learned to improve my shot, and now when I shoot a bow, for instance, I almost always hit the bullseye on the first shot (and most afterwords).

I think that the Chaos Rifts are no different. Shing Jea was a holy place, and this is one of many factors that contributed to the "misfire" of the Rifts. Eventually, as the Chaos Army adapted to the new conditions, they were able to open more controlled Rifts.

Another possibility is that, like I suggested, they were inexperienced with opening Rifts on Shing Jea, because there was either interference, or they simply didn't know the land. Thus, they opened up Rifts to "scout" until they found where to open up a good Rift.

[Quintus Antonius]

Before I forget again, here are some pictures of the Fury I took while at the Dragon Festival.

The first one is just a general shot of the boss:
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8131/thefury4pb.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thefury4pb.jpg)

The second one is of real interest. Notice the area I enlarged and enhanced; it seems to be a symbol of some sort:
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/7627/thefurysymbol7zk.th.jpg (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thefurysymbol7zk.jpg)

[Gmr Leon]

Man,that symbol is hidden well. By any chance do any of the other monsters have that mark on them?

[shadow the hero]

It looks Like Somekind of Shield with Wings Behide it

[Karuro]

This is my theory about why they didn't directly attack the monestary:

Due the holyness of the Dragon Festival, it could be there was a force that prevented to create Chaos Rifts around the Monestary. Now, the attack started in the Lagoon, far away enough. No problem opening portals there. They keep closing in to the Monestary. Now, it could be how longer a portal is open near this Holy force, the holy force will weaken. Tsumei and Seitung Harbor are then in the Grasps hands. Even though we get land back and strenghten our force, the Grasps still manage to re-take Tsumei. With the Forcefield now at it's minimum, the Grasps do a direct attack on the monestary. Thanks to the players, we defeat them, but the field is still very weak due the attack. At the Summoning of the Dragon, the Grasps immeditaly attack the Monestary again, creating chaos. The essense of the Dragon could be a holy force in itself, so the Grasp ofcourse want it to disappear. However, the players manage to get enough to strenghten the force again in the time limit before the holy force gets destroyed, closing down all portals on the island. So The Fury calls an immidiate retreat from the monestary, giving Cantha it's victory.

[The Stiehl]

It looks Like Somekind of Shield with Wings Behide it

Wing Crest

Image (http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/3045/wingcrestemblem9fr.jpg)

Once thought to be the emblem of Ascalon, we see the Wing emblem at many locations. It is still unknown what this banner really represents.

1. Shield of the Wing
2. Banner ouside of Ascalon Arena and Nonali Academy.
3. Banner and Platforms in the HoH.

We see this image everwhere. Its origin still has not bee decided on. Before I reliazed it was the same image in the HoH I had thought it was the crest of Asalon as it has been suggested their anmial is the Griffon. Some had said this is an image of a Lion with Wings, a Griffon, and others a Sphinx. But, the ultimate aspect that needs to be covered is what is its origin and why do we see it everwhere?

Is this it? I haven't seen the image, due to the fact when I open ImageShack some pop-ups appear and freeze my Internet Explorer. Any chance of re-hosting it, Quintus?

[Gmr Leon]

If you don't wish for the evil pop-ups. Here you go since Quintus isn't online at the moment.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a338/GmrLeon00/thefurysymbol7zk.jpg

[shadow the hero]

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5613/thefurysymbol7zk7aq.jpg Painted the Lines in the Emblem Black (i was Nervous, so they are abit.. eh.. yeah you know what i mean)

[The Stiehl]

I took a picture of the back of a Necrid Horseman.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6425/necrid5hm.png (http://imageshack.us)

The lines are still there, and they are more clear. Make of it what you will.

(Yes, I'm using ImageShack. My regular hosting company wanted to resize the picture, because I wanted to preserve the quality in 24-bit. I still got the pop-up, but it didn't freeze me. But just in case, I'm not going to post it as a link to the site, as that was what froze me last time. Besides, I've already lost the link to be able to thumbnail it.)

[shadow the hero]

Its a Scarab.... (The Insects)

[lady avariace]

i say its a dark god reminiscent of Nurgle lord of plague and decay. i say we gonna see a god of corruption. either that or they work for joko..and hes more powerful than he lets others believe

[Arkhan The Black]

Erm nice thread Necromancy.

It has been established that it was agents of Dhuum and it ties in directly to what happens in Nightfall considering you get to battle the leader that invaded the festival in the Domain of Anguish.

[Konig Des Todes]

You realize, that you too did some Necromancy on this thread. It was dying out yet again, almost for a month, but you ruined it. >:( Shame on you.


lol just kidding.

[Arkhan The Black]

Well sorry but I had the urge to open my nitpicking pie hole and also when I browsed the forum it showed up as an updated topic.