View Full Version : The Dervish - Chapter 1 Clues
So, a few days back as I've been wandering around the desert with my boyfriend.
I actually thought of this before I even knew Nightfall was going to take place Elona. All I knew was that the Dervish were hooded and humble in their worship.
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/245/gw097hi0.th.png (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw097hi0.png)
I noticed these statues in the Amnoon Oasis, and I was immiediatly reminded of the Dervish. The first key was the hood. The second were their arms raised in prayer.
From what I've gathered from the in-game lore, there were two major groups of people that had tried to Ascend in the desert - the Margonites and the Elonians. The Margonites were sea-faring, thus the structures made out of remains of boats must have been created by them. Logically, therefore, the statues were most likely built by Elonians.
Where does chapter 3 take place, and where does the Dervish profession originate? Elona...
If the above is true, then the Dervish must be truly well respected and revered in Elona, especially if they were important enough to have their likeness portrayed in statues.
Perhaps it was only the Dervish in their fanatical pursuit of the favour of the Gods that tried to Ascend, and thus we only see statues of them. (I haven't noticed anything reminiscent of a Paragon.)
Now, I can't wait to see what would happen if you brought your Dervish character to the Crystal Desert for Ascension. This is going to be very interesting.
Quintus Antonius
27-07-2006, 05:35
That is a very logical connection, which leads me to my next ponderance: are those dervishes, or representation of whatever god the dervish worship/what originally inspired the dervish.
Another thing, I'm not sure how long those pillars have been there. If they predate the Elonians, that may defeat your theory.
Still, the resemblence is uncanny.
lifeinthefridge
27-07-2006, 05:38
I also noticed these same statues in amoon oasias beat me too
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8839/hoodedfiguresgw1.jpg
Blazing Liger
27-07-2006, 05:39
Interesting find. Anyone have any idea what those statues are there for exactly or why? They made me think of the old Sith statues on Korriban in Knights of the Old Republic...
I think the Dervish's description says something about them cloaking themselves because of humility from Gods or something along that line.
So if there is a link, it should be depicting the Dervishes themselves.
Serena Corvidae
27-07-2006, 08:14
In her most recent Gaile Chat (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=412640) Gaile says:
I would suspect -- this is my own thought --that the Dervish God is not yet known to us. Not Dwayna or Grenth or Balth, you see?
It will be interesting to see if this is correct.
Sounds Risky
27-07-2006, 11:17
Who is Balth?
another god? Menzies perhaps? leader of the shadow armies that are against Balthazar. Perhaps the Elonians and the dervish wanted to ascend so badly to join Menzies army in the FoW, maybe a promise of great power if they helped him..?
maybe it was a threat.. if they didn't go to the FoW and help menzies.. then they would be destroyed, I thinkn that perhaps the were promised great power.. which is why the elonians in the desert fought against eachother, and that when some did get into FoW they were betrayed by menzies and in their madness turned against eachother, hence the corpses found in FoW.
just speculation though
Quintus Antonius
27-07-2006, 18:37
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dervish
There's a link to the Wikipedia article on the real-world religious practices of the group known as dervishes.
Sounds Risky
27-07-2006, 20:18
Balthazar :)
Now I feel silly.
another god? Menzies perhaps? leader of the shadow armies that are against Balthazar. Perhaps the Elonians and the dervish wanted to ascend so badly to join Menzies army in the FoW, maybe a promise of great power if they helped him..?
maybe it was a threat.. if they didn't go to the FoW and help menzies.. then they would be destroyed, I thinkn that perhaps the were promised great power.. which is why the elonians in the desert fought against eachother, and that when some did get into FoW they were betrayed by menzies and in their madness turned against eachother, hence the corpses found in FoW.
just speculation though
I am a mythology person, so I previously knew this, but for the uninformed..
this is from guildwiki:
"In an ironic twist inspired by Greek Mythology, he is also Balthazar's half-brother. It is unclear if Menzies is himself a full-fledged god or some lesser entity."
For all we know, Menzies could have found a way back into our plain from
the Fissure.
teh Monkeys
27-07-2006, 23:48
Dervishes are described as holy warriors, so I doubt they'd follow menzies. Dwayna and/or balthazar sounds more likely.
OracleRoot
28-07-2006, 00:02
I thought the statues mentioned reminded me most of the ones representing the Gods in the "Prophecies" manual (In the Lore section when talking about the fall of Orr) interesting speculation though.
Shokk Mjollnir
28-07-2006, 04:37
maybe dervish gods are based based on their attribute (kind of like eles) :/
it might be lyssa since it sounds like they basically shapeshift which could fall under her illusion-ness...thing
Quintus Antonius
28-07-2006, 04:52
Gaile said that the god of the dervish is someone we haven't seen before.
Gaile said that the god of the dervish is someone we haven't seen before.
I am thinking... what if the Dervish don't have a god as was previously undertood.
Let's assume that the Anet developers have taken their inspiration for the Dervish from Sufi muslims. One of the big things with us muslims is that god supposed to be completely totally abstract concept. So what if the dervish worship the god of gods if indeed such a concept exsistence the world of guild wars... i.e. the god who created all the other gods and that's why the dervish can channel the power of the other gods... if that makes sense.
Also Sufi muslims appear to be similar to shiites who believe in saints etc (I am sunni and we don't have saints) so maybe those statues represent the "saints of old" like Lukas would say.
I am not sure if any of that makes sense, I hope it does. Just a thought.
Quintus Antonius
28-07-2006, 05:33
It's nice to have your perspective as a follower of Islam, Tinnic, and thank you for your input.
I think you have a very valid point (in reference to the "god who created all the other gods"), and it would fit with the nature of the new classes as well. If the gods are anything like the Greek and Roman pantheons, then they do have parents, or at least, some type of process or entity that gave rise to them.
Alternatively, the dervish may function in a way similar to the elementist, seeking the wisdom of the gods instead of the favor of the gods, although I think they blend those two ideals.
The only thing I can really say is to wait and see. I'm thinking ANet will surprise us with something totally new (although, in regards to discussion in the LF), not completely unexpected.
I'm excited to see what's coming.
Well it looks like Gaile is wrong yet again..
A bunch of Mysticism elites read: Avatar of Balthazar, Avatar of Dwayna, etc etc.
teh Monkeys
28-07-2006, 11:31
Gaile is far from reliable. She's a nice person, but you hardly ever get anything concrete out of her visits and posts.
Probably why people like her so much. We learn so much, yet so little.
Why would Gayle inform us on part of the lore of chapter 3 which has not been defined for good? Imagine she did it and she was wrong, it would have people complain about her lying especially as they already do when she dares to say a feature is considered and it is not developped in a later stage.
If she said we didn't know yet which God(s) the dervish followed then we don't know it, it is not because they can incarnate the avatars of known gods that they are following them, for all we know they venerate an upper god which stands above the other ones and has granted them the ability to incarnate his servants.
After all even tough we know Elonians tried to ascend as a people and we know that ascension is bringing you under the gaze of the gods we never knew which gods we were being watched by, we just assumed it was the 5 we know of (Balthazar, Grenth, Dwayna, Melandru and Lyssa)
Besides that we know the Canthans believe in a ritual that differs from ascension to bring them closer to the stars and we also know they have god like spirits responsible for taking care of the deceased which are not the gods we are familiar with even tough these are also part of their pantheons.
When did she actually say that there was another god? Only time I heard her mention anything like this she wasnt straight out saying there there IS another god, just that we don't know that there isn't.
Quintus Antonius
28-07-2006, 17:26
Someone posted it here on the Lore Forum (I believe, either that or the profession forum) and I know it's in one of the more recent Gaile Chat Logs in the FrogTalk Forum.
Other than that, I don't want this thread or any threads in the Lore Forum, to turn into a discussion on Gaile's credibility. This is simple not the appropiate place for it.
I think Dervishes might be worshippers of all the Gods.
Or a twist in the storyline may show they are actually worshipping the *spoiler*
evil boss at the end of the storyline?
Or perhaps the Great Dwarf? lol.
Gaile said that the god of the dervish is someone we haven't seen before.
they have said the same thing about factions. that maybe there were Gods in Cantha not yet known to us.. lol right... so i highly doubt there is another god
plus if there was, would we not see another avatar?
As long as we are talking about chapter 1 clues to the new professions... is that a Paragon in the distance?
http://static.flickr.com/61/200939638_f9eeaef49d_o.jpg
I took this pic when I was in the desert getting my 15 attribute points I believe. She sure looks like a Paragon to me but than she seems to be wearing a helmet and of course Paragon have that leet elementalist head piece thing going.
Quintus Antonius
29-07-2006, 16:16
That's just a female in normal Knights Armor available at most crafters in Tyria.
they have said the same thing about factions. that maybe there were Gods in Cantha not yet known to us.. lol right... so i highly doubt there is another god
plus if there was, would we not see another avatar?
Maybe you need to review your Canthan lore a bit. There are three new "gods" in Cantha, the three demi-goddesses that the Luxons worship along with the pantheon of Old Gods. Also, there is a system of ancestor worship in place that pre-dates the worship of Old Gods. Furthermore, the Emperor himself is hailed as a god-among-men, as are all Emperors of the Dragon.
Well, I gues it's always possible that the statues are some demi-gods the Derish follow, perhaps a kind of servans to the Old Gods.
Traynor Dragonblade
02-08-2006, 21:35
plus if there was, would we not see another avatar?
If you're referring to not seeing such an avatar in the preview event, than No we most likely wouldn't have seen the avatar, regardless of if it is true or not.
I'm not saying there is another god yet to be introduced simlilar to Dwayna, etc. But if there was, the developers would most likely wait to bring the avatar in-game until either after release of the game or AT the release of the game. They would not give you Avatars of all the current gods and then Avatar of *Blank* as it would give away part of the storyline.
But yeah I don't know if they will introduce another one or not, but it is entirely possible. I don't think the dervishes skillsets (especially those in a beta event) are evidence of much.
Poisoned Hunter
04-08-2006, 02:47
ok sec ... do u think that the margorites have to do with this too? I mean go check your map of prophecies and see the west side of the desert. It's all non-explored.. why would ANET waste this much of land ? I'm only saying because why didnt the margorites ever been mentioned since then? i think since the margorites develloped a lot in sea-faring then they must have something to do with cantha too. the margorites arrive at cantha and estabilize a colony there but what happens they turn against each other because they gey greedy whihc results in Kurzick - Luxon .. Though I must be definately wrong about this ^^ .. Anyways we don't know a lot of things about these Margorites what if they have to do something with Nightfall ... maybe they are following an evil god and they prayed to destroy the elonians. Because I think that the Margorites and the Elonians fought against each other and the Margorites got kicked. This is a nice connection but correct me if I am totally wrong about this! ^^
JeanDeathwish
04-08-2006, 03:58
Dervishes are described as holy warriors, so I doubt they'd follow menzies.
Holy person: Living according to a strict or highly moral religious or spiritual system
"Holy" does not mean "good," just very religious. And one can be religious and worship an evil god.
That said, since GWN is a "PvE" chapter, I don't think they will have Dervishes on the evil side without the same PvP of GWF.
I think the Dervishes worshipping the abstract god above the gods is very likely, seeing as how many of their spells have to do with the current gods.
Poisoned Hunter
04-08-2006, 04:06
"Holy" does not mean "good," just very religious. And one can be religious and worship an evil god.
That said, since GWN is a "PvE" chapter, I don't think they will have Dervishes on the evil side without the same PvP of GWF.
I think the Dervishes worshipping the abstract god above the gods is very likely, seeing as how many of their spells have to do with the current gods.
Getting to think about that I've just realized that Dervishes may be SPIES of Menzie (or maybe Dhuum). Because in the UW there are those 4 horsemen... hmm maybe dervishes are menzies'. That's why they have skills of gods: Avator of <godname> but not something like: blessing of melandru, gaze of grenth, rage of balthazar etc.. dervishes just copied out their avator and some potential ... hmmmmm
Since the Dervishes have 'Avatar of <god name here>', at the moment we can only assume that they're like Elementalists.
Quintus Antonius
04-08-2006, 20:40
I agree fully with, Trojan. We can only judge based off what we know and the evidence we have at the moment.
That doesn't mean it won't change, but it does mean for right now we can only say "I don't know", and there's nothing wrong with that.
AskMyselfWhy
04-08-2006, 21:28
Now, this is all theory, but... what if the Dervish worship Lord Odran? (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Lord_Odran) I feel that that would be viable. Now, it's probably completely wrong but there's still the possibility. *shrugs*
Quintus Antonius
04-08-2006, 21:33
How would that work?
I suppose it wouldn't be too different from the White Mantle's worship of the Mursaat, but that was the entire race, not just one individual.
AskMyselfWhy
04-08-2006, 21:50
Perhaps the Dervish saw Odran as a semi-direct link to the Gods, since he could open and sustain portals into the Rifts. :]
Beta Sprite
04-08-2006, 21:54
"Holy" does not mean "good," just very religious. And one can be religious and worship an evil god.
Actually, it means 'to be set apart', usually for some kind of worship or importance to a god.
Being 'religious' doesn't make you holy, unless you believe that being religious sets you apart as special.
Sorry, I just got a twinge when I read that, as it felt a bit off-base.
Gordon Michael
05-08-2006, 07:29
The thing about Dervishes having their own god is Gaile's speculation, meaning she isn't familiar with that particular bit of lore, and it may not have even been written yet. If they do add a new god (other than the antagonist, who I'm 90% sure is Menzies or Dhuum), I suspect it'll be a water god, since that's the one element that isn't really covered (Grenth is the god of ice and winter, but he doesn't really seem to have anything to do with the ocean). Anyway, it's possible that the outcast god isn't actually evil, he could've created some powerful magical device like the Scepter of Orr, which the villain of Nightfall found and misused.
Vasha Lien
07-08-2006, 00:16
The thing about Dervishes having their own god is Gaile's speculation, meaning she isn't familiar with that particular bit of lore, and it may not have even been written yet. If they do add a new god (other than the antagonist, who I'm 90% sure is Menzies or Dhuum), I suspect it'll be a water god, since that's the one element that isn't really covered (Grenth is the god of ice and winter, but he doesn't really seem to have anything to do with the ocean). Anyway, it's possible that the outcast god isn't actually evil, he could've created some powerful magical device like the Scepter of Orr, which the villain of Nightfall found and misused.
Grenth is the god of cold and death, the cold element covers water.
Menzies isn't known to actually be a god, and Dhuum is dead, that's how Grenth took over - By killing him.
I think the most likely situation is another god.
A leader of the "old gods" isn't so unlikely. All we know right now is that Dwayna leads the currently known ones, which shows there is a ranking system. Why not one more step on the ladder?
It's also possible the "old gods" were mortals previously, that COULD be what the dervish strive to become. After all, if Dhuum could be killed then who else?
This is just random babbling, but possibly the old gods such as Balthazar WERE dervishes before. If Dhuum got killed and replaced by his successor, then there's obviously other gods SOMEWHERE that we don't know about, unless you want to think that Grenth was just an extra that got lucky and was able to kill some immortal god.
Vasha Lien
07-08-2006, 00:18
And also don't forget the Great Dwarf (the god of the deldrimoor dwarves) and the Great Destroyer (who's name is unknown), the enemy god of the Great Dwarf.
Quintus Antonius
07-08-2006, 00:30
Don't double post, Vasha. There is an edit button active for an hour.
As for the nature of the Old Gods, there are some good articles in the main area of the forum that you might find interesting. Keep in mind that nothing says Dhuum is dead. His position was destroyed, but the word "killed" is never implicitly used.
Vasha Lien
08-08-2006, 05:36
Don't double post, Vasha. There is an edit button active for an hour.
As for the nature of the Old Gods, there are some good articles in the main area of the forum that you might find interesting. Keep in mind that nothing says Dhuum is dead. His position was destroyed, but the word "killed" is never implicitly used.
"Before the time of Grenth, when death was ruled by a cruel and unjust god, there stood a tower and a throne on this very plain. But Grenth rose up and destroyed the one called Dhuum and shattered down his tower, leaving only these storms of chaos as a reminder of the power that once held dominion here. My vigil over these lands was broken for a time, and I can feel a resurgence of the old taint. Four horsemen approach, riders of Dhuum. Destroy them before they can reclaim this place and throw the underworld into chaos!"
I think that makes it fairly clear Grenth killed Dhuum, unless you have another meaning for "destroyed".
His position wasn't destroyed as you said, it clearly says Grenth destroyed Dhuum himself, and then goes on to say what physical objects were destroyed, clearly seperating the fact that Grenth destroyed Dhuum and then going on to say what else he did.
Durza the Shadeking
08-08-2006, 09:19
"Before the time of Grenth, when death was ruled by a cruel and unjust god, there stood a tower and a throne on this very plain. But Grenth rose up and destroyed the one called Dhuum and shattered down his tower, leaving only these storms of chaos as a reminder of the power that once held dominion here. My vigil over these lands was broken for a time, and I can feel a resurgence of the old taint. Four horsemen approach, riders of Dhuum. Destroy them before they can reclaim this place and throw the underworld into chaos!"
I think that makes it fairly clear Grenth killed Dhuum, unless you have another meaning for "destroyed".
His position wasn't destroyed as you said, it clearly says Grenth destroyed Dhuum himself, and then goes on to say what physical objects were destroyed, clearly seperating the fact that Grenth destroyed Dhuum and then going on to say what else he did.
If Dhuum, was destroyed, then why would there still be a taint of his rule, so if we take that into mind, it would mean that even though he was defeated he still survived. You can be destroyed and survive, yet you would not truely be a power, you would be a weakness and barely alive.
If Dhuum, was destroyed, then why would there still be a taint of his rule, so if we take that into mind, it would mean that even though he was defeated he still survived. You can be destroyed and survive, yet you would not truely be a power, you would be a weakness and barely alive.
There has got to be a ring around here somwhere *sarcasm*.
In agreeing with the (^) above poster, I would vote that destroyed meant banished or imprisoned. As in his reign was dissolved. If there were horseman after the fact still coming to throw the Underworld into chaos, then Dhuum is probably well and kicking someplace trapped. I would guess that such traces of him would not be able to function if the main source of power feeding into them was completely null.
I also just really want to see Dhuum in Chapter 3 :smiley:.
dhuum represents the chaos, i really doubt that he is dead, since you cannot kill chaos (look at the minions of dhuum in pve tombs and during the dragon festival ;) )
Quintus Antonius
08-08-2006, 18:35
I think the big issue is that we are looking at the etentites of the Old Gods and their brethen as normal humans. Whether or not they are actual deities, they are certainly of a different nature than a mortal human.
In the context of the paragraph on Dhuum, it is concievable, and completely within the context of the statement, to assume that it could also have meant that Grenth destroyed Dhuum's power, but not Dhuum himself. "He rose up and destroyed the one called Dhuum" really could mean that Grenth rose up and destroyed any influence or power Dhuum had, banishing him and seperating him from his powerbase.
If we use the daedra comparison, then Dhuum can't be killed completely, just broken down into component pieces (like the Heart of Lohrkan, or Shards of Innorurk (in reference to Champions of Norrath)), which, after "recharging" for so long, eventually give rise to the creature again.
Also, we have to look at the facts. Terrorweb Dryders and the Army of Chaos are directly under the command of Dhuum, or atleast, are his forces. These same forces have been popping up literally everywhere, from Cantha to Tyria, and now Elona. We are hearing about an "outcast" god, and the game is called Nightfall. These things can't simply be dismissed.
Vasha Lien
08-08-2006, 19:39
If Dhuum, was destroyed, then why would there still be a taint of his rule, so if we take that into mind, it would mean that even though he was defeated he still survived. You can be destroyed and survive, yet you would not truely be a power, you would be a weakness and barely alive.
Simply because killing Dhuum doesn't mean his followers all dropped dead that instant as well.
teh Monkeys
08-08-2006, 19:57
I think it's more along the lines of his followers trying to get him back in power, than that he's just back and conquering the world all of a sudden.
Hmm... Maybe Dhuum and Shiro are locked in the same cell set by the envoys.
Daggerpoint
18-08-2006, 23:44
Ok, some problems w/ some of the ideas here...
1. About Dervishes Being "Evil"
A. Very few proffesions can inheritly be "good" or "evil", I.E.: A warrior could be a knight, or just as easily, a bandit.
B. Elonians wouldn't exactly look up to them, would they?
C. They'd have to significantly change the storyline for dervish players
2. The Final Boss:
A. They can really do two things here, pull a "Morrowind", where the the final boss is in every charecters discussion topics, on the map, etc.
B. OR Do a thing similar to Tales of Symphonia(typo?) where you think you've eat the game about 12 times, only to have a plot twist. However, unfortuantly, this is unlikely, because they have less time to spend on the plot that in other games.
C. More specific than that, who can tell?
The Dawn Raven
20-08-2006, 09:40
Perhaps Dhuum's armies are not being controlled by Dhuum, but by some kind of general who wishes to re-instate him? Dhuum might be almost destroyed and powerless, and it's his subordinates causing trouble.
Gordon Michael
21-08-2006, 03:55
Getting to think about that I've just realized that Dervishes may be SPIES of Menzie (or maybe Dhuum). Because in the UW there are those 4 horsemen... hmm maybe dervishes are menzies'. That's why they have skills of gods: Avator of <godname> but not something like: blessing of melandru, gaze of grenth, rage of balthazar etc.. dervishes just copied out their avator and some potential ... hmmmmm
Considering how the Mursaat have monks, the co-operation of the gods isn't strictly necessary to join a profession. In other words, even if traditional Dervishes worship the traditional five, there's nothing to prevent their enemies, such as the Mursaat or the Shadow Army of Menzies, from getting Dervish training. Likewise, if the Dervish profession was originally invented by Dhuum or Menzies, there's nothing that would've prevented a Dervish from going rogue hundreds of years ago, giving Dervish training to the good guys and establishing a tradition of humble, non-evil Dervishes. Either way, there's probably over a 99% chance that you're going to fight evil Dervishes in the game, and over a 90% chance that there's some predatory animals with Dervish skills as natural abilities, just like the Monk plants and Ritualist jellyfish.
"Before the time of Grenth, when death was ruled by a cruel and unjust god, there stood a tower and a throne on this very plain. But Grenth rose up and destroyed the one called Dhuum and shattered down his tower, leaving only these storms of chaos as a reminder of the power that once held dominion here. My vigil over these lands was broken for a time, and I can feel a resurgence of the old taint. Four horsemen approach, riders of Dhuum. Destroy them before they can reclaim this place and throw the underworld into chaos!"
I think that makes it fairly clear Grenth killed Dhuum, unless you have another meaning for "destroyed".
His position wasn't destroyed as you said, it clearly says Grenth destroyed Dhuum himself, and then goes on to say what physical objects were destroyed, clearly seperating the fact that Grenth destroyed Dhuum and then going on to say what else he did.
The Reapers are some of Grenth's most loyal servants, of course they'll tow the party line. Like other people said, gods have a habit of not staying dead. The Cthulhu mythos, Forgotten Realms and Exalted come to mind. Anyway, the Reaper of the Chaos Planes says he can feel the resurgence of an old taint, whether that's the presence of Dhuum himself or just Dhuum's followers is open to debate.
And also don't forget the Great Dwarf (the god of the deldrimoor dwarves) and the Great Destroyer (who's name is unknown), the enemy god of the Great Dwarf.
I honestly think that the Great Dwarf is another name for Balthazar and the Great Destroyer is another name for the Great Destroyer. Yes, I know about Unspeakable, Unknowable, but we don't know that Balthazar and Menzies are their 'true names'.
Grenth is the god of cold and death, the cold element covers water.
Menzies isn't known to actually be a god, and Dhuum is dead, that's how Grenth took over - By killing him.
I think the most likely situation is another god.
A leader of the "old gods" isn't so unlikely. All we know right now is that Dwayna leads the currently known ones, which shows there is a ranking system. Why not one more step on the ladder?
It's also possible the "old gods" were mortals previously, that COULD be what the dervish strive to become. After all, if Dhuum could be killed then who else?
This is just random babbling, but possibly the old gods such as Balthazar WERE dervishes before. If Dhuum got killed and replaced by his successor, then there's obviously other gods SOMEWHERE that we don't know about, unless you want to think that Grenth was just an extra that got lucky and was able to kill some immortal god.
I still don't think water fits Grenth, the idea of someone praying to Grenth for rain or successful fishing seems pretty bizarre. As for Grenth's status before replacing Dhuum, Grenth could've been the god of ice or ice and water before he overthrew Dhuum and absorbed his portfolio. If I was handling things, I'd say that Grenth used to be the god of ice and water, but Grenth split up the different aspects of the portfolio of water with the three / four goddesses when he took over death, while Lyssa took over the portfolio of chaos. Another possibility I just thought of is that Lyssa could've formed out of all the blood and loose divine power from the battle between Grenth and Dhuum, sort of like the Aphrodite and the Erinyes, Gigantes and Meliae in Greek Mythology were born from the blood of Uranus after Cronus scythed him right in the NSFW, or how Faerun's second generation of gods formed during the first battle between Selune and Shar. Regardless, we do know that Balthazaar and Menzies are half-brothers, although we don't know if their parents were mortal, divine or one of each. I suspect that the Mursaat worship Menzies (Shadow Elementals, Shadow Mesmers and Shadow Monks look like White Mantle, while Shadow Warriors wear armour similar to Mursaat clothing and the armour that the Enchanted are made out of). I'm pretty sure the True Giants were created by some other god long before the arrival of the current pantheon, and I suspect that the Titans may also fit into this category (and may even be the True Giants or their descendants), although they could also be the creations of Dhuum (who, like I said earlier, may not be affiliated with any single element). It's also possible that the Titans were created by the same god as the Mursaat (who, like I said before, is probably Menzies), and that they're enemies because they fought over his favour (he is the god of strife and destruction) and the Titans lost.
Perhaps Dhuum's armies are not being controlled by Dhuum, but by some kind of general who wishes to re-instate him? Dhuum might be almost destroyed and powerless, and it's his subordinates causing trouble.
I like the idea of Dhuum just thrashing about and gibbering insanely in his fevered nightmares, sort of like Azathoth or Giygas, while his servants try to interpret his will.
Zion Farbow
21-08-2006, 04:50
Behold the never ending easter eggs xD
Crovax Blackthorne
18-06-2007, 03:18
And the thread Necromancer Strikes again! Almost a year later and we still know squat about the Dervish and their origins. Maybe I can scope out the fan fiction section and just form a premise off a story there if someone has written a Dervish tale.
Gmr Leon
18-06-2007, 03:40
Actually, their origins are told in the Manuscripts.
Quintus Antonius
18-06-2007, 03:48
That said, there are legitamate clues in the Crystal Desert to things in Nightfall. For instance, the Ghostly Hero (Turai Ossa) has always boosted of his defeated of Palawa Joko the Scorge of Vabbi, long before we knew who Joko was, or what Vabbi was.
Crovax Blackthorne
18-06-2007, 05:20
Actually, their origins are told in the Manuscripts.
And that's what I get for buying my copy of NF online. No books to read. That being the case though. Why hasn't their history been posted on wiki or anywhere else?
Quintus Antonius
18-06-2007, 05:24
You can get digital copies of all the Manuscripts on the Guild Wars website.
Crovax Blackthorne
18-06-2007, 05:37
You can get digital copies of all the Manuscripts on the Guild Wars website.
Already tried it. For some reason it won't load for me. I guess I'm SoL.:cry:
Quintus Antonius
18-06-2007, 06:09
Well, the files are in .pdf format, which means you will need the Adobe Acrobat Reader plug-in to view them. I believe it can be downloaded for free from Adobe's website.
Crovax Blackthorne
19-06-2007, 07:11
Oh I have the reader. It's the internet itself that is shutting me off from it. Must be something on ANET's end. I can see PDF's from other sites.
Maybe you could try downloading them to your computer and opening them from there. Or did you already try that?
Crovax Blackthorne
20-06-2007, 05:24
Maybe you could try downloading them to your computer and opening them from there. Or did you already try that?
Yup. Tried that too. Nothing..nada. I'm gonna try it on a friends PC next chance I get.
Anyone wanna give the shorthand version of the Dervish history?:grin:
Well, uh, this is kind of embarassing. I can't find any sort of dervish history in the Manuscripts. Their info page simply says they're holy warriors who've perfected their martial techniques in the deserts of Elona, and that masters of the profession can assume the form of a god. They chant prayers to the earth and wind.
Other than that... it's all just the history of Elona. Sorry, dude. I wish I could give you more info on them, but even the corsairs have more history behind them.
If it's worth anything to you, scythes in the real world are used for agricultural purposes. The first dervish may have been a peasant farmer turned violent, or else some warrior who realized its potential for destruction.
Elite Bushido™
20-06-2007, 16:14
In her most recent Gaile Chat (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=412640) Gaile says:
It will be interesting to see if this is correct.
see the thing about this is that the Godly Aura's(CE of Prophecies) givin to each character is based on A god. War= Balth, Necro= Grenth and so on. Assassins, Rits, Dervs, and Paragons have their own Godly Aura also... and none of them are the same.... so there are obviously gods we dont know about yet. and since we dont... why are they kept away from us like a secret? were they banished or somethin?
Quintus Antonius
20-06-2007, 17:19
It's called the "Divine Aura", and has nothing to do with the gods, as Elementalists have one, and don't have a all encompassing patron god. Also, the game itself says the Dervish is a follower of all gods, and the very robes they wear are made dedicated to each god. (I believe the source for this was the pre-order kit for NF.)
Gmr Leon
20-06-2007, 23:40
Grah. Can't believe they didn't put this in the Manuscripts.
Serving the gods as holy warriors, Dervishes stand confident in the whirlwind of conflict. The Dervish hood shows humility before the gods. The robe shows devotion to the Five True Gods. Their gauntlets show readiness for battle. First seen in the Shattered Dynasty era; these wandering ascetics brought comfort to a land troubled by civil war. Instead of the more traditional traveler's staff, the first Dervishes favored the scythe, showing their sympathy for peasants laboring in the fields. Martial techniques perfected in the deserts of Elona allow a Dervish's scythe to quickly lash out at multiple opponents, surrounding a holy warrior with a swath of destruction.
There ya go, word for word.
Quintus Antonius
20-06-2007, 23:58
Thanks, I couldn't seem to find mine to give a direct quote.
Crovax Blackthorne
21-06-2007, 03:35
Thank you Gmr Leon.
Hmm...The Dervish seems to be akin to a paladin or crusader? It seems the reality is that the Derv's were created for those people that like the monk type character, but didn't want to go around healing everyone,lol.:laugh:
I mean think about it. Back in the prophecies only days, how many monks would people let in thier groups if they weren't healing casters? I can see it....
Dunes of Despair on a Saturday Night:
PlayerX: Smiter Monk lfg mission and bonus!!!
PlayerY: Go back to Nebo Terrace noob!!
PlayerZ: You can join me if you are a Bonder. Hit accept.
PlayerX: Smiter Monk LFG Mission and Bonus!!
PlayerZ: What level are you?
PlayerY: OMFG!!! He's only level 4!!! Stupid NOOBLET!!
PlayerX: Screw this I'm gonna go play WoW.
PlayerZ: Damn E-Bayers and their runners, lol.
Lol, anyways back on topic. I guess I will just take the mindset that Dervishs are like that David Carradine character from Kung Fu. Unsuspecting travellers roaming the world looking to right any wrongs they see, and whooping that behind when they are challenged to a fight.
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