ELONIA, trade, and connections

[halfthought]

well, Ive been noticicing a major logical flaw about cantha. where does the city get its food supply? I mean, usually a massive city that has sucha huge size MUST have a better way of agricultural transport, I realize that Luxon and kurzick are vassal states, but relying on a VASSAL STATE for your primary food supply is Extremly unreliable. then there is the question of shing jing. I realize there are many argricultural land in it, but there is no way enough to supply a city of such population density. after observation, the city appears to have 3X population density then china, and there isnt nearly enough land to feed every one. so what does this mean? I prepose a land east, below the crystal dessert, as well as east of it, that connects tyria with cantha, forming a crecent shaped bay, in which contain the ring of fire. the tyria/cantha thing was suggested before, but was undermined by the fact that traders passed through the fire islands, but this can revive the theory. furthermore proof is the maragorite had boats, which they transformed into buildings. if the elonian also sailed, wouldnt they have adopted a similar strategy? no, they had buildings, which suggest they had come from the east.
it is that landmass which the elonian inhibit that connect tyria to cantha, which sld be very close to the border of the cantha map, providing adequate trade other rescources cantha cannot ossibly generate

comments, ridicules are all welcome:smiley:

[Quintus Antonius]

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't half (or more) of the city starving? I'd say you are right on with your suspicions of the city not being able to sustain itself, only thing is, there doesn't appear to be a source of relief.

The food that is available is probably grown on Shing Jea, or in the vassal states and places on the map we can't explore (there are several green islands and sections of land). Also, I'd imagine fishing is a big industry as well.

Considering that the Prima Guide lore says that Cantha is just setting up trade routes with Elona and Tyria, I'd say there is no Elonian involvement or relief operation, yet at least.

[Zaxares]

Study of the Canthan map reveals that there isn't much land west of the Qinkaishan mountain range that isn't occupied by some sort of human habitation. Thusly, agriculture isn't likely to be the main source of Cantha's food supply. It's possible that there are farmlands situated over the mountain range, but travel over mountains is a notoriously perilous form of travel, not to mention slow. Given that this is a world where refridgeration of food does not seem to be common (I don't see any Water Elementalists offering their services for transport of perishable goods :wink:) or even possible, I theorise that the bulk of Cantha's food supply must come from the sea. There are plenty of what appear to be fishing junks located at Kaineng City's two ports, and given the haphazard nature of the city's construction, it wouldn't surprise me if there were tiny piers scattered all along the coastline.

Food taken from the sea would probably be supplemented by harvests from Shing Jea, and from trade with Cantha's vassal states and neigboring countries. (I believe that the Kurzicks and the Luxons are now independent of Cantha's rule, according to the timeline) Don't underestimate the ability of a city or even a country to sustain itself entirely through trade; throughout real-world history, there existed large city-states along major trade routes whose only source of food came from outside sources, like Karakorum (sp?) of Mongolia.

Still, with all the mouths to feed and a limited amount of produce coming in, it no doubt gives rise to inequities in food distribution. (This may particularly be the case if Cantha practises central food storage via city granaries) Given the squalid living conditions endured by the Canthan peasantry, it seems likely that the poor are living in a state of semi-starvation all the time.

[Arkhan The Black]

Well if the Luxons would begin to starve they can always resort to eating the giant slugs or turtles. Lets not forget about the fact that the citizen of Cantha have learned to not waste food. Food does not have to be brand new because you can still dry it for later use. If food would have been in such short supply I doubt a city of that size would have never come about.

Lets not forget that the Xunlai network may also work as a way to export and import food as well. Don't you think with that kind of magical storage that the idea has never crossed their mind before?

[Laibeus Lord]

But they lived in the continent for centuries, maybe they just lost contact to the lands South, East and South-East of the Kurzick/Luxon lands, maybe because of Shiro's shout that turned everything into Jade.

[Ifer]

Well.. the city once only consisted of what we now know as kaineng center, so I guess that in past times, there used to be a great amount of land. After the city started expanding rapidly, the emperor decided to colonise Shing Jea. Why? Probably for food. The fact that the city is starving may be the reason for starting a trade route with tyria and elonia in the first place.

[Quintus Antonius]

Agreed. Trade was most likely opened in order to garner support for the ailing empire.

[Laibeus Lord]

Hmm... and maybe could it be because the Kurzick and Luxon lands are now jade-ified? When before it happened, the Luxons - the sea-faring they are, used to transport food supply from the lands beyond Cantha (South-East of Cantha)? And the Kurzicks were into other food-related business?

I think the Luxons, being sea-farers that they are, used to have contacts to the civilizations in the next continent. If you look at the Cantha map, there are still lands South, South-East and East of the Continent of Cantha, those lands are not Cantha and are not part of the Continent of Cantha anymore. The Luxons can't possibly survived as sea-farers in the old (Jade) Sea without civilizations to contact at the other side of the sea right?

Could it be their food supply?

[halfthought]

oh crp, my theory just got majory disproved... but not by anything you said... in the nitefall preveiw, there isa luxon ship in the distantance, probably some trading ship... but if they were directly connected, there would be no way for ships to connect... so I guess my theory was at least ntil release and further evidence, wrg

[Darakus]

hum, humans eat monsters monsters eat humans that's already one food source. That said from the official lore we know that Kaineng Center used to be the city and it grew massively due to refugees, this would indicate that a lot of farmlands are actually in the areas formerly occupied by the refugees which would most likely be in non explorable country.

The canthan town is also bordered by a huge harbor that is probably an incoming source for trade (jade and amber for food?) and fishing.

Speaking of food in Tyria, there aren't that many either outside of Kryta.

[Kattox]

One other thing thats been brought up before... after the Jade Wind how the hell did the Canthans get enough wood to expand Kaineng city to the size it is now? Didn't most of the trees get... Jadeified?

[Arkhan The Black]

I'm also pretty possitive that Fungal Wallows are eatable since they look fat and packed with meat. They do remind me of a combination between Rats and Wild Boars. They also seem to dwell all around the countryside where there is some sort of dirt.

Just because they are monsters dosent mean they are uneatable.

If the Canthan people where starving they wouldn't hesitate to eat any sort of animal.

[Quintus Antonius]

One other thing thats been brought up before... after the Jade Wind how the hell did the Canthans get enough wood to expand Kaineng city to the size it is now? Didn't most of the trees get... Jadeified?

You forget that the area they expanded into wasn't city before hand. There were most likely other buildings and forests.

***

If you look at the description of one of the Canthan cities, they say how a delicacy is something like rat on a stick or something.

[lavenbb]

"traditional canthan delicacies such as pickled vermin tongue"

From marketplace. Not exactly rats, but still very gross...

[Quintus Antonius]

Yeah that's what I was looking for, thanks laven.

I think that shows the state of Cantha's food needs. People are willing to eat anything and everything they can come across.

[Zaxares]

Yeah that's what I was looking for, thanks laven.

I think that shows the state of Cantha's food needs. People are willing to eat anything and everything they can come across.

Hmm, good point, Quintus. Now that I think about it, I think Mantid soup is apparently another common dish. In the Luxon areas, you come across Khim, a crew member of the Halcyon who's complaining about always having to eat Mantid soup, implying that it's a cheap or otherwise readily available food.

Maybe Mantid soup is the food of the masses? There's certainly enough of them hanging around Nahpui Quarter and in Xaquang Skyway.

[Quintus Antonius]

Yeah, it's the Guild Wars equivalent of gruel apparently.

[Darakus]

Well, in chinese beliefs every single creature whose backbone is pointing to the sky has been put on earth by god for them to eat and that includes rats :grin:

So when it is stated that it is traditional I believe it might just pre-date the Jade wind.

Speaking of Jade wind it is an explosion hence it propagated in a circle like form unless stopped by natural obstacles, we already know the point of origin as being unwaking water and we know the radius by the fact the jadeification/pretrification doesn't reach mattu keep. This means if we look at the map we can draw the circle of what was affected. From that we know the coastline of the map of Cantha we have was not affected and neither was the southern part of the continent, but how big is that part since it is not on the map and who is in control of it? Do we have any indication of that?

[Ezekial Bain]

Food must be an issue not only for Cantha, but also Post-Seering Ascalon. Trade with Kryta is blocked by the civil war in the Shiverpeaks, the lands are burnt and there is barely any fresh water either. What do these people eat and drink? Okay, MAYBE they could get water from the Shiverpeaks and perhaps even food from the animals there (not many wild animals left in Ascalon... unless you fancy eating Devourers), but how does the likes of Ascalon City (far from the Shiverpeaks) get food?

Kaineng City is a bit better off since a lot of it is bordered by the sea. Fishing would provide a lot of food, and also the Canthans were famous for their trade (it's pretty much the most important thing we learnt about them from Prophecies before Factions arrived), so a lot of food is probbaly imported. Some parts of the city also have spots of greenary, and maybe people have small gardens on the roofs of some of the buildings. There's also the farms on Shing Jea Island, but I agree, even with all these factors put together there must be side-spread hunger in Kaineng City, the population density there is HUGE, it's like Hong Kong but *without* all the lush green lands about it outside the city.

[Zaxares]

Considering that we still see merchants and traders in Ascalon City, there must be SOME trade still going on. Remember, too, that in such a blasted wasteland like Post-Searing Ascalon, food and drink must be in high demand. High demand creates high prices, and merchants THRIVE on such conditions. Never underestimate the motivational power of human greed. :tongue:

I haven't seen any noticeable bodies of fresh water in Ascalon, so I must presume that Ascalons are obtaining their water from wells or bores, sunk deep enough to reach aquifers that remained intact from the Searing. With regards to food, there are still Striders roaming around the land, and if the Canthans can survive eating mantids, I'm sure Ascalons can survive eating devourers.

Heck, maybe they even eat Charr! It may give the Ascalons a sense of revenge to eat the bodies of their foes.

[Quintus Antonius]

They make armor out of their skin, so who knows, the rest of the body must go somewhere.

[Darakus]

Might be the Tyrians eating Charrs as a delicacy that launched the war but that would mean we aren't the good guys wouldn't it?

[Quintus Antonius]

If the humans in Ascalon devour Charr, I think they do so out of pure hatred, more than necessity to survive. Kind of a "They eat us, we'll eat them!" kind of attitude, for all we know, the leather loincloths that units such as the Charr Stalker wear are made of human skin.