Some holding build questions...

[Mr Dbest]

Well, in HA the other day, i got rolled over by two teams....
Brehon the Lf's & Merro the Noob

These guys hold halls regularly, and as ive faced their builds, i have some questions...
Now this is what ive gotten so far with each build and how they work...
Brehon the Lf
1 Shock War
2 Choking Gas
1 Rit Spammer
1 EArth Ele
3 Monks (RC,Infuse, WoH)

Merro the Noob
1 Shock War
2 Starburst or Choking Gas (not sure which)
2 Doom Rits
3 Monks (RC,Infuse, WoH)

Now, for Brehon's build, i was wondering.... where is the dmg? I've tried running it before, and only the shock war and earth ele seem to be the ones doing dmg....so wat i believe is that he uses a KD spike, with the shock using DW and the Earth Ele, using Aftershock, Shockwave...But, it seems to me that only 2 ppl spiking, and one that revolves around around a 1 sec kd to pull of spike is awe-inspiring..
So now questions:
1) Do the CG brg any spirits (i.e Fertile Season, Frozen Soil, etc.)..keep in mind this is a holding build...
2) Does the rit brg Earthbind? It seems likely, but when i faced it, i don't believe i saw one....
3) Does ne1 else beside the earth ele and war do dmg?
4) Where is the fatal dmg coming from?

Now, concerning Merro's build...
1) Does he use Starbursts or Choking gas?
2) Does any1 carry holding spirits?
3) Is a Frozen Soil in the build to stop enemies from ressing after spike?

These are the lists i have compiled after research, and i was wondering if any of u veterans out there know the answer...Unfortunately, they play at a time zone different than me, and so i have observed them only 4 or 5 times each.... =]

[Almas Darksoul]

I can't say I've ever heard of "Merro", but I think I can offer some insight into Brehon's build.

1) No holding spirits. They may have favourable, so the rangers can use shortbows easier.
2) Nope.
3) Brehon has two rangers in his group - unlike standard cg rangers, they run frenzy instead of flurry. This gives them a semi-respectable dps that can be maintained as they shutdown monks.
4) Two gas rangers can offer a large amount of shutdown against inexperienced monks - with a cast window of ~.37 seconds between each gas hit, some focus is needed to keep healing up. This is especially important as a match continues. Brehon's team can keep alive easily due to the extra rit and warder, so in a prolonged fight even an experienced monk is prone to mistakes. The team is able to capitalise on this and force further errors with mini spikes. If the rival monks attempt to out-heal a spike, choking can catch their skills, wasting energy. If they infuse the spike, pressure is created on the infuser as the gas ranger continues shooting.
Failing that, they may be running spike skills on the rangers for a more substantial spike.

[Mr Dbest]

thanks almas, for answering... but since you're so knowledgable of the subject, can i ask u a few more questions?
1) Do the spikes occur with the war using DW and shock, and the Ele using aftershock and shockwave?
2) Does the build's spike revolve around KDin the target b4 spiking?
3) Since you said the build used "mini-spikes", is it to put more pressure on the monk to heal?

That's all for now =]

[Super Kenny]

The two choking gas should shut down the monks completely so that the others could kill the opposing team. I don't think Brehon's build is made for rolling everything/fame farming, it's more of a holding build.. The 3 monks backline can keep the team and the ghost alive most of the time, and they also have a warder and a rit spammer which should keep most of the damage off.

If they can cap the hall and win it, I think it would be easy to hold as even if the ghost dies, you have 2 interrupters(the choking gas) with seeking arrows so the 2 other teams can't cap.

I can't say anything about the second guy, as I've never heard of him.

[Almas Darksoul]

I have to say that I rarely watch Brehon on observer and I've only ran into him once myself, and in that instance I wasn't paying too much attention. His spikes seem to be made by the warrior alone most of the time, using Evis-Exec to deal the damage. The warder is more to break up any balls in rival wards which seriously hamper the warrior, a function which the gas rangers contribute to.

At times the warder may contribute, but often, the pressure of the choking gas and small spikes is enough to kill if the spike is started on someone who already has ~80% hp.

[ZiegDivine]

Choking gas might also be carrying marauder's shot, which is good help in "mini spikes."

[Zui]

revolves around around a 1 sec kd to pull of spike is awe-inspiring..


Base KD is 2 seconds, unless stated otherwise(Ex: Gale, Backbreaker), or otherwise modified with Stonefist/Stoneskin Gauntlets. Since each build uses Shock to snare the target, it is a 3 second KD, due to Stonefist/Stoneskin Gauntlets.

[David Holtzman]

Base KD is 2 seconds, unless stated otherwise(Ex: Gale, Backbreaker), or otherwise modified with Stonefist/Stoneskin Gauntlets. Since each build uses Shock to snare the target, it is a 3 second KD, due to Stonefist/Stoneskin Gauntlets.

I tested this yesterday, and the KD time is definitely one second on non-specified skills.

[Premium]

I believe the getting up sequence is also counted as still being knocked down, as I've connected a crushing blow on a target while they were getting up and still caused the DW, so the base time is 2 secs.

[David Holtzman]

I believe the getting up sequence is also counted as still being knocked down, as I've connected a crushing blow on a target while they were getting up and still caused the DW, so the base time is 2 secs.

Retested, still not 2 seconds. Closer to 1.25 is the farthest out I can make Crushing apply a DW.

[lifeinthefridge]

I run daily with merro and know the whole build but pm me in game like i said on the other thread dont want to release info on here for others they at least got to watch on observer slows the copy proccess down .

[Mr Dbest]

Sweet =]

I'll send you IGN in private so you'll know it's me =]

[lifeinthefridge]

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8617/gwoninepostwi1.jpg

[Darknicrofia]

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8617/gwoninepostwi1.jpg

wtf....stop crossing out my beautiful monk's name...

[nebuchanezzar]

Retested, still not 2 seconds. Closer to 1.25 is the farthest out I can make Crushing apply a DW.
How do you determine this? Hammer attack rate = 1.75 seconds per swing. About 1.33 under IAS. The very soonest you can possibly apply a DW with Crushing is 1.33 seconds AFTER the KD. Usually 1.75 seconds after the KD. If you mean count to x and hit Crushing then you have just perfectly proven teh 3 second KD with Stoneskin Guantlets...1.25 second wait to hit Crushing+ 1.33-1.75 seconds Attack swing speed+ inherent lag is from just under 3 seconds to right at and over 3 seconds.
KDs are 2 seconds. All kds are 2 seconds. You are in a KD until fully standing upright again. Try chaining KDs and you will learn that you cannot KD a 2nd time until after 2 seconds(3 with Stoneskins)are fully expired, because they are already knocked down*still in kd even though animation is rising up to fully standing*. Your shock or gale or backbreaker will all hit but have no other effect if your even a 1/4 sec off. The best warrior tandems practice well enough to shock chain without allowing even a 1/4 second cast to get off. That is 6 seconds down, 9 if a Bulls Strike started it off. I have been on both ends of such chains. To those who remember Gale Wars warrior tandems could knock-lock one target basically perpetually, at will.

[David Holtzman]

How do you determine this? Hammer attack rate = 1.75 seconds per swing.

Not under frenzy. Got plenty of time to time the swing.

The best warrior tandems practice well enough to shock chain without allowing even a 1/4 second cast to get off.

Been there, done that. Knocklocked a Psychic Distraction yesterday to win halls which, incidentally, is rather less than 1/4 seconds. And the mes stayed down for 4(ish) seconds with 2 shocks.