Origin of Kurzicks

[Santax]

Ok. Here goes.

It could be rampant, wild speculation, a number of completely random coincidences, or the fact that I'm most probably hyper from chocolate.

What if the Kurzicks are descendants of Dwarves? Think about it. The lower parts of Sorrow's Furnace, presumably where the Stone Summit keep the Dredge when they're not working, resembles the Echovald Forest in many, many ways. Look at the floor, for example, everything down to the way the grass grows is the same. Even the architecture is the same.

Kurz is German for short. Short, as in short people. It has been always said that Kurzicks are generally shorter than Luxons, which has been attributed to their lack of sunlight. Kurzicks are not plants. No sun doesn't make them shorter. There have been indications of Dwarves in Cantha - The Aurios Mines, as an example. I wonder if someone here at the lore forum can piece together a plausible theory from the facts stated above?

[The Dawn Raven]

Except Edge of Extinction classes them as the same species as Luxons...Human.

[shadow the hero]

Except Edge of Extinction classes them as the same species as Luxons...Human. Humanoids, Dwarfs are Humanoids too :/

[Quintus Antonius]

Yeah, well most great apes are "humanoid", and they most certainly aren't the same species as humans. "Humanoid" isn't even a legitimate scientific term, it arose primarily from science fiction.

Furthermore, if the Dredge can dig to Cantha, I'm sure the Deldrimor could have achieved something similar.

[Ifer]

interesting thought :)
a dwarf-human hybrid - it's plausible, but not very likely imho.

[The Dawn Raven]

Yeah, well most great apes are "humanoid", and they most certainly aren't the same species as humans. "Humanoid" isn't even a legitimate scientific term, it arose primarily from science fiction.

Furthermore, if the Dredge can dig to Cantha, I'm sure the Deldrimor could have achieved something similar.


The Dwarves/Kurzicks coudl have tunnneled earlier, and the Dredge follow them through the tunnels.

[Quintus Antonius]

Yes, I've always thought that there might have already been tunnels in existance before the Dredge tunneled. Though I don't think that minimizes their feat any.

[Santax]

Just on a side note, probably irrelevant but nvm: I theorise that the mountain range that seperates Ascalon and the Crystal Desert resembles the Echovald Forest very closely. Sorrow's Furnace is clearly a very, very hot place, and the underground parts near the hot furnace represent what the Shiverpeaks look like while not particularly shivery and/or peaky, just like unexplored mountains to the south.

WHY these look like Echovald (possibly someting to do with the spirit of the forest, Urgoz?) is yet to be realised though.

[Quintus Antonius]

Or they are rocks, like Echovald. All rocks generally look the same from space.

Are you suggesting that Cantha is actually the top of Tyria? I ask because I've heard this theory before, and I disagree with it. The Charr homeland is north of Ascalon which would put it in Cantha (by the way the theory is, that is). Obviously, that's not so.

[Santax]

Or they are rocks, like Echovald. All rocks generally look the same from space.

Are you suggesting that Cantha is actually the top of Tyria? I ask because I've heard this theory before, and I disagree with it. The Charr homeland is north of Ascalon which would put it in Cantha (by the way the theory is, that is). Obviously, that's not so.
Unless the "world" of Tyria is very small, I'm not suggesting so, since Cantha is only about 100 miles south of Tyria. I'm not sure what I'm suggesting exactly, except maybe any party travelling from Shiverpeaks to Cantha "took" Urgoz or some other factor with them that made the Echovald Forest look like it did prior to the Jade Wind. If you remember the Kurzicks aren't sure of their ancestry.

I have all the facts, it's just a matter of piecing them all together.

[Quintus Antonius]

Alright. Well I look forward to reading your paper, or whatever you are composing. Good luck!

[Camaris Spectre]

Three things:

1) Keep in mind that the Kurzicks originally lived in a lush forest not a "stony mountian" place.

2) The Kurzick facial structure seems to be related to that of a Canthan who needs to spend a solid year in a tanning salon.

3) Unlike any dwarves we know, the Kurzicks are devout followers of the old gods. Even if The Great Dwarf is indeed an old god by any other name.

[Sable Phoenix]

The physical proportions are all wrong, too. Dwarves in the GW world are, in general, no smaller than humans, in fact many are even larger; my Elementalist, who is close to the maximum on the height slider, is only a few inches taller than the dwarves in Droknar's Forge for example. The difference between them and humans comes in their physical proportions, i.e., their heads are much larger and their arms and legs are slightly shorter.

The Kurzicks are solidly human-proportioned; I don't see any dwarf blood in them at all. In fact, considering that there is no such thing as a half-dwarf (that we have seen) in Tyria, I think it's probably impossible for dwarves and humans to interbreed in the first place.

[Quintus Antonius]

I agree with points 1 and 3, however, point 2 is rather irrelevent. The Kurzicks have been in Cantha more or less since its foundation. In all those hundreds of years, gene flow between the two ethnic groups would be sufficient to transform the overall appearence of the Kurzicks. A further point of this is the fact that we have Kurzicks with Canthan ethnic features, and Kurzicks with ethnic features not typical of Cantha, which seems to suggest what I'm saying may be correct.

[Kalidri]

If anything Kurzicks appear very fine proportioned in comparison to dwarves - their warriors are not the big bruisers that we see for our characters for example. Also several of my characters seem taller. Perhaps the lack of sun stunts them. I have the impression that the Kurzicks are their own distinct race and culture, but that Canthans have genetically drifted on in over the centuries. Also the heavy makeup on some of them doesn't help...is that white skin really that white or do they just powder daily? Is that real hair or wigs? I've just interpreted that to be "fashionable" among them...to look pale.

[sonicpollution]

I think from a cultural standpoint the Kurzicks can't be derived from Dwarves. GW makes the point that the Kurzicks are an isolated, insular sort of people, and that they've developed their own culture which is seemingly independent (or at least different) than the rest of Cantha. Given this and given their seeming devotion to their ancestors, I'd think if they were derived from the dwarves there would still be evidence of dwarven culture in Kurzick society, and to me, the two seem to be cultural opposites.

[ShadowReapr]

However, we know that Dwarves have been in Cantha - something like they are responsible for... either armour or the Jade mining facility, one or the other. We know they have inter-continental travel, but I don't think they exactly dug their way there - it does seem more likely the Dredge would do that, whereas the Dwarves are more likely to hop in a boat and ride the open seas (the river that Droknar's Forge is situated on, for instance).

I wouldn't exactly rule out the idea of Kurzicks being of Dwarven origin, but I would liken it to more immigration and integration, if that is indeed the case.

[Poisoned Hunter]

I'm sorry I'm gonna say no to this and I have some evidence..
There's a Dredge outside of Fort Aspenwood's Gate, Molenin which givves u a quest and says: ... I, We, the Dredge come from a land very far away from Cantha, called the Shiverpeaks, we tunneled over here because we were being kept slaves from Dwarves also known as Stone Summits. The kurzicks to me are like allies but some of Dredges think they are enemies, also the kurzicks think we are enemies, go speak to Count zu Heltzer and tell him that we will be their allies....
Well it goes something like that.. I hope I can get the exact text and I'm sure I'll post it if I do..

[PwnyRide]

I think from a cultural standpoint the Kurzicks can't be derived from Dwarves. GW makes the point that the Kurzicks are an isolated, insular sort of people, and that they've developed their own culture which is seemingly independent (or at least different) than the rest of Cantha. Given this and given their seeming devotion to their ancestors, I'd think if they were derived from the dwarves there would still be evidence of dwarven culture in Kurzick society, and to me, the two seem to be cultural opposites.

And that statement describes the Stone Summit perfectly.

[keroshinigami]

just a thought on how kurzicks dont know much about their past, if they are perhaps related to dwarves. maybe a decent sized group of dwarves left the dwarven city from tyria, possibly ashamed or disgusted with something, and much like the case of abbadon hid their past. as time goes on those who keep their mouth shut die with their history, leaving more or less no traces. some might say something would be left to indicate the dwarves, but during the moment the forest became petrified they had to find new ways to live there.

if they did leave the dwarves in the first place they could have changed who they worship just to be different, whats the easiest thing to find? the 5 gods, that humans worship.

also as quintus pointed out, the genetics shown vary which could point out to a change in appearence, with this they could have gotten skinnier and adapted mining using juggrenauts oppose to brute strength. also who taught them how to mine? maybe they had prior knowledge passed down.

this is all just opinions so dont take it to heart

im curious about what they were like before the forest became stone. i think i recall after it was stone they slowly migrated in... so i wonder where they were before they migrated in?

[Quintus Antonius]

I honestly thing this Dwarven Kurzick thing is completely nonsensical. There is quite literally no evidence, everything I've seen is just wishful thinking.

[keroshinigami]

i dont doubt you quintus, im just throwing ideas out. honestly id jsut like to learn more about kurzicks in general.

[Shazard]

I wonder who built the ruin of the Echovald forest before the Kurzick come along. One of the kurzick npc claimed that its wasn't their ruins, that the ruins was there when they came and occupied the place.

[Kalidri]

Though if it isn't their ruins...whose is it? Did the Kurzicks live elsewhere and if so, where did St. Viktor come from since he is pre-petrified forest? I get the impression from Danika that the cathedral is ancestral...and if it isn't, why would they put the ashes of their greatest hero in it?

The other thing is that the architecture carved into the trees themselves (post petrification) resembles and matches the old buildings around it. So...color me confused. Silly Kurzicks.

Also I thought I saw some Kurzick say something about 'centuries'...I need to go find them. Seem to recall it in Amatz or perhaps Durheim. I have an awful memory and Leon knows I make things up on occasion (hey, I write fic, give me a break).

[Santax]

Well, we now know that the mysterious architecture in the Altruum Ruins and Urgoz's Warren is reflective of the Asura, along with the relics in the Aurios Mines.

Although I think it's unlikely that the Kurzicks came from Dwarves, there's a possibility that most Kurzick, Dwarven and Ascalonian architecture draws inspiration from the Asura. But that's for another thread.

[Quintus Antonius]

Well, we now know that the mysterious architecture in the Altruum Ruins and Urgoz's Warren is reflective of the Asura, along with the relics in the Aurios Mines.

Although I think it's unlikely that the Kurzicks came from Dwarves, there's a possibility that most Kurzick, Dwarven and Ascalonian architecture draws inspiration from the Asura. But that's for another thread.

Hold on a second: We "know"? We don't know. Unless there was an article I wasn't aware of or something.

[Skyy High]

We can make the hypothesis that, since the Asurans are reportedly supposed to be underground under the entire planet, and matching architecture that is sophisticated in style yet completely removed from the surrounding culture has cropped up all over the globe, it stands to reason that the Asura could be the mysterious creators of said architecture.