Striking at the Core: The Outcast God's Plan Against the Pantheon

[Quintus Antonius]

We know that Nightfall is about an outcast god and his or her attempts to gain power. Whether or not this outcast is Dhuum, I cannot say for certain, and this is not meant to confirm or deny the identity of said god.

What I plan on showing is that whomever this outcast is, he or she is actively moving against the Old Gods by attacking their respective powerbases.

I will break it down by god, and how each has been effected. Remember, it has been confirmed that Nightfall will finalize the story which spans through Prophecies and Factions. As such, elements of both will be seen here.

Balthazar: Balthazar is currently engaged in battle with the Shadow Army and Menzies in the Fissue of Woe. Furthermore, if my theory is correct, and Balthazar is in fact the Great Dwarf, then his worship base has been effected by the Stone Summit betraying worship of said dwarven deity. Still, Balthazar remains strong, despite this.

Dwayna: Dwayna has taken a blow in the main area of the White Mantle banning the worship of the Old Gods. Also, with the appearence of the Undead Army, an affront to both Dwayna and Grenth has arisen.

Lyssa: Lyssa has actually taken very little of a blow, or at least, I am unable to find a connection at this time.

Grenth: Grenth, like Balthazar, has had a direct assault on his realm. Beyond this, with the Undead Army roaming Tyria, Grenth has been "denyed" his right to claim the dead. Furthermore, the strongest source of necromancers in Tyria, namely Ascalon's cult of necromancers, has been destroyed, largely effecting Grenth's worship base. His reapers have been imprisioned, and his worshippers have been delievered a serious blow.

Melandru: Melandru is probably the goddess who has taken the most serious smack. With the destruction of Ascalon and Orr, as well as the Jade Sea and Echovald Forest, Melandru has suffered greatly. Being the goddess of nature, it must certainly be painful for her as her mainstay continues to take incredible beatings. The Kurzicks feel that Melandru has abandoned them, I feel that it is simply a matter of her power being diminished.

As a whole, the Old Gods have taken a serious blow with the destruction of Orr and the banning of Old God worship in Kryta. It is almost as if the Outcast has been striking directly at the pantheon of gods by affecting their various spheres of influence through manipulations of the events in Tyria during the last 200 years. Perhaps by weakening them, he or she has finally been able to break through enough to corrupt the Hall of Heroes and expell their power onto Tyria, bringing about the events of Nightfall.

[choco]

I like where this is going. Good job on the info.

[Drec Sutal]

The question I have, then... is what do the old gods think of this? Balthazar and Grenth have admited mortals to their realms to help in the fight against invaders, but other then that? How do/will they combat the other threats to their power?

The Gods choose to leave the mortal world ages ago. And yet, what is there stopping them from taking a more direct hand in things? Will we see the old gods in nightfall, or perhaps a more vigorous avatar, charging us with not only stopping the new threat for nightfall, but pushing back to the source of the threats to the mortal realms and the influence of the Gods?

Perhaps the old gods, or their avatars more likley, will appear to us in a cutscene united, and charge us with the removal of the upstarts.

[MetaldragonFrogkiller]

I have a question:
Aren't the new professions Elonians, which in Prophecies, are supposed to be wiped out? (check Crystal Desert) So, wouldn't Nightfall be more of a past kind of thing. I may be wrong, but that's my question.

[eddie the reaper]

No as far as i am aware only the colony of elonains that traveled to the crystal desert were wiped out by being greedy and trying to become ascended. Only a small colony of elonians actaully went to the crystal desert and the rest of the population stayed in elona and still exist.

[Karuro]

The Elonians who tried to ascend in the crystal desert weren't all of them. They were just a small group. In Nightfall we're visitng the lands of Elona, where they came from (and still many many Elonians are alive and kicking). So this ain't in the past ;)

[Quintus Antonius]

The question I have, then... is what do the old gods think of this? Balthazar and Grenth have admited mortals to their realms to help in the fight against invaders, but other then that? How do/will they combat the other threats to their power?

The Gods choose to leave the mortal world ages ago. And yet, what is there stopping them from taking a more direct hand in things? Will we see the old gods in nightfall, or perhaps a more vigorous avatar, charging us with not only stopping the new threat for nightfall, but pushing back to the source of the threats to the mortal realms and the influence of the Gods?

Perhaps the old gods, or their avatars more likley, will appear to us in a cutscene united, and charge us with the removal of the upstarts.

It truly appears like the Old Gods are just backing off. Were we admitted to their realm by them, or by their spirit guardians? Also, I wonder if the dervish's avatar form can be considered direct intervention by the gods. Perhaps they are just powerless, who knows.

[secretkid]

By reading this topic i thought about the envoy in Faction. They asked us to defeat shiro cuz he was disturbing the realm... So can we say that those envoy are kinda like some old god's avatar? :undecided:

[Quintus Antonius]

The Envoys are like the riverman of the river Stix (the river into the Underworld in Earth mythos), Charon. They ferry souls to their proper place and pretty much buffer between the realms of the living and dead.

[KuradoberiJam]

I also think that Lyssa has taken a fairly big blow too. During times of war, art takes a lesser place in priorities compared to self-preservation. In times of war, people send a prayer to Dwayna, not Lyssa, to protect their loved ones. Though there have been times when art was created, it was not for the sake of art and beauty, but rather for propoganda. Perhaps people are slowly losing their inspiration?

Beauty is also an innate part of life, for their is a certain beauty in existence. When Melandru lost the lands to the Searing and the Jade wind, almost all of the natural beauty was lost as well: birds stopped singing, the rivers and springs went silent, and the sky was covered with ash.

Manmade beauty was also affected, seeing as how the architecture of Ascalon was lost to the Searing, leaving a barren waste land in place of the grand castles, and buildings found in pre-searing. I believe that many works of art were also lost in the Searing.

Class time now, but those are my two cents. ^_^

[Quintus Antonius]

Very good observations, KuradoberiJam. I never even considered that. You could very well be right.

[shadowhand]

From what I've seen of the preview so far, I'd say that this outcast god has already struck against the two existing continents and only the Saizhen Elite (and we heroes) seem to be able to do anything about it.

Whoever this outcast god is, we know his or her servants well from the Dragon festival and from the Tomb of Primeval Heroes.

This chapter seems to tie the Saizhen to Balthazar, as direct instruments of his will. (As opposed to people that really like a good fight, and thus built the Battle Isle Arenas...) At least, so it appears from the evidence I've seen in the preview.

So, The Saizhen might have been created by Balthazar's priesthood as guardians against this... Outcast god?

Anyway, they must be at least a part of Balthazar's power base, if that is the case. And, they seem distressed, but not panicked as they would if they were on the brink of losing a great war. I'd say that Balthazar is holding his own...

For now.

[Neovo]

so the general consensus is that abbaddon was making small tweaks and pulls on strings to exact a very gradual chain of events to exact his plan.

small question, what was the benifit behind infecting the TOTPK? also where does glint fit into this whole layout, was she too under the effects of abbaddons serendipity?, hence the self forfilling proficy?

also would you be able to link the exodus of gods, enstilling of responsability upon the forgotten and the ensuing guildwars?

:addition: i suppose the fortune teller that advised/"instructed" shiro was also influenced by this plan?

[Tuor Son Of Huor]

Yet another thread that proves we were at least 80% right :D

[Quintus Antonius]

Probably because they took 80% of the story from us =P

[ddpddpddp]

Probably because they took 80% of the story from us =P

and the other 20%? anets way of giving us the first paragraph, then telling us to write a story with it ;)

[Rob Van Der Sloot]

Lyssa: Lyssa has actually taken very little of a blow, or at least, I am unable to find a connection at this time.

I got the impression from the mission where you call upon the gods (and fight Shiro and the Lich again), that Lyss with her many faces is more of a god between gods... or a bridge between the various powers. I'm not quite sure how to explain it, and I don't remember the exact dialogue either, but I did get the impression that if any of the gods suffered, so did Lyssa. So perhaps she was more affected than any of the gods. I'd have to do that mission again to be sure.

Manmade beauty was also affected, seeing as how the architecture of Ascalon was lost to the Searing, leaving a barren waste land in place of the grand castles, and buildings found in pre-searing. I believe that many works of art were also lost in the Searing.

Certainly the destroyed theater just outside Ascalon City is a very literal example of how art has suffered.

On a side note: I wonder if we'll be seeing more of Dhuum and Menzies in future chapters...?

[Quintus Antonius]

Perhaps. This paper is largely irrelevent now, as the stuff that is right is obviously a part of Nightfall, and the stuff that was wrong, doesn't really matter anymore.

[Nerubian]

This topic reminds me of the adage - which came first the egg or the chicken.
Ok here I go.

You are theorizing that the gods individual power fluctuates relative to the world/planewide condition of the aspects they represent.

However I was under the impression (im not that knowledgable on gw lore) that the GW gods were the creators of the world. If thats the case then they already had power of epic proportions before there was any material/spiritual/etheral/etc substance to mainfest their aspects against.

That being the case it seems rather unlikely that their power would be in any way shape of form linked to the ebb and flow of their various creations.
Really the power of the gods should only be affected by the actions of other gods against them directly in the heavens. Any attempt to undermine so called power bases on the mortal plane or various other planes should have zero effect.
Only if the gods came into existence after creation as a result of planar events should their individual power have any connection to factors outside heavenly forces.

Only divine power should be able to influence or effect divine power.

Philosophical discussion on the nature of divinity below, skip if your not interested :).

It all comes down to the definition of what a god is really which most fantasy has blurred beyond recognition.
Personally I think you can not define a god without determining its proximity to omnipotence, one cannot be seperated from the other.
However as I have discussed its viable to have levels of omnipotence and as such I think a key part of being defined a god is having a level of omnipotence that provides you with complete immnuity to any power that is not divine.

So basically in my opinion gods like in Dragon Lance, Forgotten Realms, other fantasy etc who are all vulnerable to a myriad of powers of non divine origin are the absolute lowest tier of god if they can even be called gods at all.
For lack of a better analogy if you have seen the Stargate SG1 series I would approximate these gods as similar to the ascended ancients in that lore world. Being's existing on a higher plane with great power but by no means omnipotent or true gods.
Off the top of my head the only truly omnipotent god I can think of in fantasy is the Q race from Star Trek. While they were never termed gods in the show the highest and most pure defintion of a god by most reasoning is true omnipotence which it was stated the Q did have.

Lastly to further complicate the issue, a god with the power could choose to make itself vulnerable to non divine powers. An example is the episode of Q being made completely human and mortal by other Q and therefore capabable of dying and ceasing to exist barring further Q intervention.
But the likelyhood of gods doing such an action willingly would be extremely remote for obvious reasons. Why would you as a group of gods give yourselves such a weakness, and if it was an unintended byproduct then that further questions your status as gods when you are so obviously at the whim of universal forces outside of your control.