Lord Odran is Abaddon?

[Laibeus Lord]

Hmm I know this is really crazy, but it just came to my mind.

What if Lord Odran is Abaddon? What if Lord Odran, being more knowledgeable than any one else and powerful than anyone else be Abaddon himself?

Lord Ordran discover how to create portals to travel to the Rifts, HoH, the Mist, and eventually to other realms of existence. He was later killed. Once dead, the portals are left to be discovered.

Once discovered, the guardians got too engrossed with pitting humans into battles while Lord Odran studies the "spirit realm".

We know that Lord Odran discovered "temporal" reality. Odran travels back in time and into the future.

Campaign 1 was an experiment on how to turn dead into an undead.
Campaign 2 was also an experiment on how to return back to the mortal realm.
Campaign 3 is the time Lord Odran sees fit to return back as a god.

Could his discovery of the temporal reality allowed him to become a god and travelled back in time and waged war with the Five gods, but was defeated and imprisoned?

Dunno, just a very wild and crazy thought ;) Until now I am still wondering why ANet used "Temporal" instead of some other terminologies for what Lord Odran discovered ;)

[Ivan Drago]

Do you know when Abaddon was banished and burnished from all memory and so on?

It seems to have taken place a long time before Odran started his experiments, maybe someone has a really good TYRIAN TIMELINE. I am not sure about that.

[Quintus Antonius]

I don't think so. As Ivan mentioned, the timelines don't match up. Abaddon was banished thousands of years ago, Odran died only about 200 to 300 years ago, about the time of Shiro's death wail.

[Tuor Son Of Huor]

Plus Kormir the Sunspear Marshal says that Abbadon was the 6th god of the pantheon; but was banished to the Realm of Torment by the 5 gods. It is not said why.

Perhaps Abbadon offended the other 5 Gods, or tried to subjugate them to his will? My reasoning for this is because I suspect a similarity between abbadon's imprisonment in the RoT and the banishment of Morgoth (Melkor) behind the door of night.

In the Silmarillion and the Lore of middle earth, (from which ALL fantasy steals from) Melkor was the eldest and most powerful of all the Valar (read: Gods),, but was banished at the end of the 1st Age, chained and shut behind the Door of Night - i.e Solitary confinement+purgatory where not even the dead spirits go. It is prophesised that he will find a way out and then wage a final war upon all of middle earth.

[Sable Phoenix]

In the Silmarillion and the Lore of middle earth, (from which ALL fantasy steals from) >snip<

And of course Tolkien himself stole most of this from Norse mythology.

There are no original stories.

[Benovolent Zephyr]

Oh another note it could be possible Lord Odran was infulenced by Abaddon...can't wait till Night Fall to acctually find out...so excited...

[Tuor Son Of Huor]

And of course Tolkien himself stole most of this from Norse mythology.

There are no original stories.

norse, finnish, anglo-saxon.. whats your point? :P

[Laibeus Lord]

Well I did say Lord Odran could have gain access to travel back in time, that explains the difference in the timeline.

"Temporal"

What Lord Odran discovered or is messing up with is the "Temporal" technology. Temporal = Time.

Now time and space can't be separated, and thus it is called correctly as "space-time". In other words, again let me explain it, Lord Odran discovered how to manipulate space-time, in ANet's manuscript terminology "temporal".

That makes it possible for Lord Odran to have travel back thousands and even eons back in the past. With all the knowledge he learned, even in the afterlife, the mist, the rift, the HoH, other realms of existence, other worlds, he was able to make himself a "god" - the 6th god. A god who was called "Abaddon".

We don't know anything about Lord Odran except what's written in the manuscript, unless, I missed something in-game.

So allow me to quote myself:

We know that Lord Odran discovered "temporal" reality. Odran travels back in time and into the future.


and


Could his discovery of the temporal reality allowed him to become a god and travelled back in time and waged war with the Five gods, but was defeated and imprisoned?


If you have the knowledge to manipulate or use the temporal technology or space-time itself, you can go back to the very beginning of the world.

OR go forward in time if you like.

We also know that dieing in GW is not "the end of existence" as Shiro has proven, we still 'exist' in the afterlife. We can even go back to the mortal realm.

So, let me ask, what did ANet used for the EU Manuscript? For the US, they used "temporal".

Thus, the timeline and the gap of years really doesn't matter here once you know how to manipulate (space)-time or the 'temporal' as per ANet's wordings.

EDIT: and let me add, with more power, more knowledge, you become more selfish and you desire more to become a god yourself. That certainly puts Lord Odran as a candidate, and seriously, why so mysterious about Lord Odran and his "temporal" portals or in other words (space)-time knowledge?

[Tuor Son Of Huor]

Lord Odran CANNOT be Abaddon:

Lord Odran sought to have an audience with the gods long after their Exodus from the city of Arah:

"In 851 AE, through the use of a powerful spell of his own device and the sacrifice of many souls, he succeeded in opening a portal to the Rift."

In the mini strategy guide accopanying the NF prerelease pack, it says that

"Civilized nations recognise revere the Five True Gods. But heretics speak of a sixth god...a fallen god. A thousand years ago, the spiritual ancestors of these heretics, the Margonites, fought an epic battle on the northern plains of Elona. The resulting carnage created a vast wasteland - the realm now known as the Crystal Desert.
Empowered by the blessings of their dark deity, the Margonites waged wars against the followers of the Five Gods - smashing temples, desecrating shrines and butchering all rivals. Yet, despite the awesome power granted by horriffic transformation, their army was annihilated; their false god was exiled to a realm of torment. "

Lord Odran would have to have gone back in time over thousands of years to establish himself as a God among the 5 old gods; deal with the Forgotten, etc, then be influence the Margonites and be imprisoned.

Lord Odran Cannot be Abaddon. However, I do have a theory regarding what exactly abaddon did to be exiled into the RoT...

[Laibeus Lord]

?? The quotes you gave still doesn't explain why Lord Odran CANNOT be Abaddon.

I already said it twice, Lord Odran under US GWP manuscript discovered how to manipulate and use the "Temporal" technology (for the lack of medieval word).. temporal = time. Time and Space are inseparable thus Temporal = space-time.

If you can control the temporal/time/space-time, you can certainly travel back and forth in time. And you quoted it, Lord Odran "sacrificed many souls", that act alone is far from being sane or being good. He certainly is 'after something'.

If from what Lord Odran discovered and learned to use for his own - the Temporal or Time itself, then HE CAN travel back thousand of years and established himself as the 6th god, and chose the Margonites as his "chosen people".


Lord Odran being that knowledgeable and very powerful himself, what would stopped him from not dreaming of becoming a god? And one way for that to happen is to establish himself as one of the old gods? Travel back in time, become a god?

Additionally, you quoted NF pre-release. They used "Five True Gods", referring only to the original pantheon. That shows that the so-called 6th god is a "false" god. Meaning, he isn't part of the original pantheon and just 'lifted' himself as a 'god'. And to be truely recognized as a god (other than being so powerful), he "chose" a people, and as was mentioned, the "Margonites".

Usually, even in real-life, we speak of a "fallen god" or a "heretic god" when that god is not part of the original pantheon. Satan is a false god, a fallen god, or a heretic god, Satan isn't part of the True Pantheon - the One God belief. I wish I have my documents with me right now, we don't have electricity here so I'm using a computer where there's a generator. We were hit by a 135+ kph typhoon...


And btw... I don't remember Lord Odran ever asking for the gods attention.

It was King Doric who asked for an audience with the five gods, not Lord Odran.

[Laibeus Lord]

After reading [url=http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=408224&highlight=Odran+Code]the Odran Code[/code]... (which is very good!)

It further opens up and gives more reason to my view that Lord Odran is Abaddon.

Again for the 4th time (since people seems to miss this important points)
1) Lord Odran discovered how to manipulate the temporal.
2) Temporal = time. Time and space are inseparable, thus Temporal = space-time.
3) Thus Lord Odran can travel back and forth in time.
4) In my hypothesis (or theory if you want - depending on how you interpret it all), Lord Odran after getting killed, learned more about the gods and how to become a god, and chose to TRAVEL BACK THOUSANDS OF YEARS IN THE PAST to establish himself as a god - the 6th old god - the false god - Abaddon, who the Margonites worships.

The Odran Code, simply, tells us the secret or mystery behind Lord Odran's research. And I agree, Odran may very well be a Mursaat himself.

If the Mursaat's have a desire to become gods themselves and is facing a big stumble block from the old 5 gods, Lord Odran, being a Mursaat himself, deviced a great plan on how to 'counter' the old 5 gods.

Lord Odran decided that he needs to travel back in time, to be able to establish himself as a god without the currently strong counter of the 5 gods - Glint, Forgotten, etc.

Lord Odran, according to the US Manuscript, discovered the temporal (or again time or space-time). He "sacrificed countless of souls" (typical of the Mursaats I say or typical of a being with an evil mind like Abaddon). He learns about portals. He learned about where the gods are hiding. The Myst, the Rift, the Souls of the Dead, the Undead, the HoH, etc.

After he was killed, he waited longer for the other races to discover HoH. Once there, everyone's busy with the tresspassers. Lord Odran travelled back in time - to the past, and started his scheme of becoming the 6th god, armed with knowledge, power, spells, he was able to influenced the Margonites.

And the rest is history.



:D

[ShadowSword]

Sounds unlikely to me. It's just about possible but it sounds far more plausible that Lord Odran was indeed ripped apart by angry spirits and that Abaddon was simply a 6th God. Ok he could manipulate time but just because he can doesn't therefore mean he did.

In fact the only thing you have backing you up is that Lord Odran could manipulate time. The Manuscript says he was ripped apart by angry spirits, the timelines don't match up and there's no reason for Lord Odran to have stuck around. The Envoys are all Canthan so there's no way Odran could have become one of those so it's far more likely he was simply consigned to Grenth's realm and that Abaddon was merely a 6th god.

[Ranger Nietzsche]

The European Manuscripts tell a much gentler story about Lord Odran. namely that he was going to ask the gods for an audience to save his people, like Doric Before him.

this information is not in the US manuscripts...and which to hold as true is questionable

[Tuor Son Of Huor]

If abaddon is lord ordran and vice versa - then abaddon is dead. Lord Odran was torn apart by spirits on his final trip into the rifts.

Nice try though.

[Tuor Son Of Huor]

QA put it very elegantly in another thread:

Well, we also have to take into account that the Manuscripts describe the Rift as touching everywhere and everywhen. However, the Rift itself obviously has it's own measurement of time. So, like Tuor said, you die in the Rift, you die everywhere, everywhen. Odran was definitely just a mortal who got woodchippered by the spirits.

[Xerox]

If abaddon is lord ordran and vice versa - then abaddon is dead. Lord Odran was torn apart by spirits on his final trip into the rifts.

Nice try though.

/Agree. Nicely put.

Abaddon cannot be Odran for the simple reason that Abaddon never died. He got exiled to the Realm of Torment. Odran got shreaded into pieces. The complicated spell Shiro used to return to the mortal world required the blood of the royal line. If Odran is to use the same spell, whose blood is he to use? He was ripped apart by angry spirits; not by a mortal. Its a nice theory but ultimately can't be true.

[Minionman]

Besides the other reasons people gave, it seems like a bit of a stretch for the guild wars writers to use something like that when an extra god who was always there will make just as much sense, since they already have other gods outside the main five.