The 'FLAME' in the Flame Seeker Prophecies

[D E A T H L I F E]

Hi,

This is my first post here in the lore forum. I was wondering why did the Lich call himself the 'flame seeker'? Is the flame Abbaddon himself? Did Glint knew exactly what he was saying when he said "the flame seeker prochecies are now complete !"

Furthermore..how are we supposed to kill a God? Will we get help diretly from other Gods or are we going to witness another advisory team from the Gods like in Factions?

[windcaller]

good question: we can't kill a God we are mortals. will we witness the appearance of the 5 Gods and the fight which they'll take with Abaddon?

[Santax]

I'd assume "flame" refers to titans or the Ring of Fire volcano chain, which is what the Lich wanted.

But then again, it may be the "flameseeker" refers to Varesh after all and the Prophecies aren't complete - Abbadon's Mouth is on the RoF Islands, after all.

[teh Monkeys]

The flameseeker prophecies are about the flameseeker (lich), who will release the flame (Titans), and indirectly restore balance to Tyria (continent. Though the prophecies were spread to other continents aswell, the lich did not attempt to invade territories outside of Tyria.). Abbadon has no direct relation to Glint's prophecies/plans.

We kill or banish abbadon with..

A) Divine intervention by the gods.
B) The Scepter of Orr. (scepter controls titans. titans most likely have a link to abbadon.)
C) Some unkown weapons/rituals that require ascension.

[Quintus Antonius]

Let's not start speculating on how we will beat Abaddon as, quite simply, there is no way to know yet.

I think it is possible that the FP have multiple meanings that may be revealed in Nightfall, but for now, so far as we know, they relate to the events of Prophecies.

[Laibeus Lord]

Yah. we already posted different opinions and views about the flameseeker prophecies.

My view is that the flameseeker prophecies has a dual meaning behind it. One referring to the GWP events, the second the "Planet" itself = Nightfall event, whcih during the NWPE, it was mentioned that the term "Nightfall" was coined in a "prophecy".

Additionally, the term used was the plural form of prophecy. It could just be "Flameseeker Prophecy" or "Guild Wars Prophecy" but why the plural form??

^_^

Let's wait with Nightfall and see :D

But yes, these things are very fun to read. Imagine how many people have creative minds :D

[Quintus Antonius]

To be honest, after replaying the Ring of Fire missions, I think that the Flameseeker Prophecies are Tyrian specific.

They talk about the Unseen, the Chosen, the Shiverpeaks, the Desert, Ascending, and the Door of Komalie. I don't think many things within that can have duality.

[Zaxares]

I believe the 'flame' referred to as the goal of the Flameseeker is that large, fiery dome that keeps the Titans locked away. At the conclusion of the Dragon's Lair mission, Glint herself tells you to 'seek the flame, for within it lies the power to destroy both good and evil'. This phrase is accompanied by a rolling shot of the fiery dome, although it's unclear if this is meant to be a vision being granted to you by Glint (which I think it is), or merely game cinematography.

[Quintus Antonius]

That would be the Door of Komalie...

What I find curious though is that she says "the power to destory bother good and evil". Who are the are parties involved when she says this, and what is the significance. She obviously isn't talking about the Lich, because he wasn't destroyed by the Titans, rather, he controlled them. I also don't think she meant us when she says "good" because we give the Titans a royal whooping at Glint's command.

Which further begs the question, are the Titans who she is talking about when she says "the power"?

[Zaxares]

No, I think the actual Door is that black portal that the Titans escape through. However, your guess is as good as mine; it could all just be a matter of perception and semantics.

I do think that the Titans are what she is referring to when Glint talks about 'the power'. After all, with the Scepter of Orr, one could theoretically take control of the Titans and use them to perform great acts of 'good'. (Like going back and using the Titans to exterminate all the Charr, although it's debatable whether genocide is a good action.) The Titans have not demonstrated to me whether they are possessed of higher reasoning; after the Lich is slain, the Titans go on a rampage throughout Tyria, but there doesn't appear to be any higher power directing them. In fact, considering that their activities seem mostly related to the capital cities of Tyria, they may be construed as simply carrying out the last known order given to them (which is to destroy the cities).

It's unclear what exactly the three Titan Lords are doing in Dragon's Gullet too. Did the Titans deliberately seek out the Charr to gain access to an army of loyal followers and worshippers? Or were they perhaps called there by means of Charr religious rituals and magic? Given recent speculation about the Door of Komalie being the doorway to the prison realm where Abbadon is held, could the Titans even be working for Abbadon? Were they sent to whip the Charr into another fearsome fighting force that could serve Abbadon's will in northern Tyria, much like how the Margonites serve him in Elona?

EDIT: Wouldn't it be awesome if in Nightfall, we had a mission where we obtained the Sceptre of Orr and used it to direct some Titan allies to help us? :laugh:

[Ranger Nietzsche]

I always thought glints line was reminiscent of something Jean-Luc Picard would say about great power etc. etc.

I honestly believe the titans are the source of Armeggeddon for tyria, and that our timely intervention is all that stopped it when we opened the door. But that claim is relatively unsubstantiated so I don't make it much here. I like to keep my crazy theories to myself.

[Quintus Antonius]

Well, I think it's possible Ranger N. Keep in mind though, Armeggeddon and the Apocalypse are not the same thing, however. Although they are often interchanged, I think a game that has so many Biblical references may keep them seperated.

Please share your theory. I'd like to hear it.

[False Visage]

I would imagine that the Flameseeker Prophecies simply refer to the Titans, as there were originally only fire based Titans. Aside from that, in a lore sense it could work since the players would be supposed to combat and defeat the Titans at the Fire Island Chain, so the Titans would still be in a volcanic form.

[Shardie]

Glint says we achieved the flameseeker prophecys... perhaps completing the prophecys were the precursor to Nightfall, I wonder...

I have never trusted that dragon, Myself...

[Ashetaka]

Additionally, the term used was the plural form of prophecy. It could just be "Flameseeker Prophecy" or "Guild Wars Prophecy" but why the plural form??


I don't know much on what defines as a prophecy, but at first look, assuming the Linch is the Flameseeker, maybe there were several chapters from discovering that the Titans are located in the RoF and locked behind the Door of Komale, to learning of the Scepter of Or and its control over titans, finding out that the chosen are the ones who can defeat the Mursaat and unlock the Door of Komale. Reason why I think this way is because throughout the story the Linch, and Glint, popped in cinematics showing that they knew of a higher plan and that it was moving according to their knowledge, the prophecy.

The Flameseeker Prophecies could just refer to the individual sums of events from Glints vision, to the Linch's death and sealing away the Titans once more... As others have said... with the limited knowledge that we have, I think its a plausible reason and nothing more... I anxiously await NF release.

[Mehtis]

After you kill the Lich, the Scepter of Orr disappears. Where has it gone? Will we be able to obtain it later and use it to control Titans? Will we be seeing mursaats or titans in NF? So many questions need to be answered.

I so have to get NF :laugh:

[Minionman]

The "evil" the titans deal with might be the mursaat.

If the margonites/abaddon do look like pieces of the mursaat, it migt be that guild wars [eople will come up with a reason besides the killing of the chosen that the mursaat are considered evil.

[AshG]

Keep in mind though, Armeggeddon and the Apocalypse are not the same thing, however.

Good call, but let me clarify it a little bit more.

Armageddon is the plain in Israel/Palestine where Christian mythos states the last battle on Earth between good and evil will happen. The account states that the armies of the world will gather there, along with the armies of Yhwh and Satan. Following the battle, Satan will be chained for 1000 years.

Apocalypse comes from the greek word apokalyptos, meaning new beginning, and in relation to Armageddon refers to the "new beginning" following the last battle, where the old heaven and earth will pass away and a new one will be created.

[Quintus Antonius]

My point exactly. I'm a Bible scholar, so I can see that there are many Biblical nods in Nightfall. Basically, it looks like we are looking at the end of the Old Gods and the "new beginning" of how we see things. The opening cinema of the NPE even says that the time of the Five Gods has come to an end.

It also appears as if there will be an Armageddon-type battle in the Crystal Desert.

[Fownkaymownkay]

The FLAME part in the Flameseeker prophecies isn't really separate, as far as I can tell.

The flameseeker is the Lich, I guess the "flame" can be referenced to the Titans? That emerge from the Ring of Fire volcanoe chain?

[Sir Jack]

The Flame part wouldn't completely reference to the Titans, as the Titans can have different forms depending on the environnement. Granted, these forms were seen after the SF update, so ANet may have not taken it completely into consideration (Verata is also still running around as Tyria's most powerfull MM boasting how his spells greatly increase the lifespan of Minions...).

However, the FSP were finished in Tyria as far as we can tell. During the final cutscene of THK, the Vizier/Lich quotes some parts of the FSP, something in the lines of "The Shiverpeaks die red in the blood of the followers of Unseen Gods" or something. A shame the dialogues from cutscenes aren't available anywhere to my knowledge...

[Quintus Antonius]

"It is then that an opening will be made for the followers of the Unseen...The Shiverpeaks will be painted red in blood. "

Two seperate lines.

[Ranger Nietzsche]

i have the dialouge of that particular cutscene, at least the part quoted as in the flameseeker prophecies. Here it is in order nothign removed.


Vizier Khilbron: An opening will be given to the disciples of the Unseen.

Vizier Khilbron: The peaks and valleys of the Shiverpeaks will be painted in blood.

Vizier Khilbron: At this time, the Ascendants will rise, and the way to the Door will be clear.

[Serendipity]

The Fire Island prophecy would have given it away too early...

Hence, the more obfuscated name..

[Sir Jack]

So yeah, last time I did THK was a few months ago. Point was, the FSP apparently reference the Shiverpeaks, which pretty much proves they ended in Tyria, unless there's a part the Vizier didn't know about and Glint didn't tell us (like "The Undead King shall fall and the Exiled shall be released once more").

BTW, it seems Abaddon is already free, or at least has a huge influence already. The dialogue the Guard inside Tombs UW says scouts reported the menace in the last room with his lieutenants (sp?). This pretty much refers to either the God has been freed or The Fury (guy from Dragonfest) was there too.

[Minionman]

I'm very sure Glint says at the end of Hell's precipice "The flameseeker prophecies are now complete", meaning they were Tyria only, unless the Tyria campaign is supposed to take longer than the others. In terms of game design, we don't know whether Anet was writing up Elona story ideas during prophecies, so it seems unlikely that they'd try to squeeze some extra continents in after having Glint say that.

[Gmr Leon]

...Just curious here, but does the Guild Wars Prophecies Prima Guide have the Flameseeker Prophecy written down in it? I mean that's the whole basis of GW:P so I don't see why they wouldn't include it in the Prima Guide.

Especially since those guides hold alot more lore than the Manuscripts. Then again if they don't include the Flameseeker Prophecy as something to read in the guide then we are left to wonder.

[Santax]

I'm very sure Glint says at the end of Hell's precipice "The flameseeker prophecies are now complete", meaning they were Tyria only, unless the Tyria campaign is supposed to take longer than the others. In terms of game design, we don't know whether Anet was writing up Elona story ideas during prophecies, so it seems unlikely that they'd try to squeeze some extra continents in after having Glint say that.
I think they already did that. I don't think they intended for the entire world of GW to be Tyria, just the continent, and that all expansions would be put on the world that they had established. But when they decided to add Cantha, they made the world "Tyria" and the continent the "namesake continent" so that for continuity, crucial storyline elements that refer to Tyria (i.e. the Flameseeker Prophecies) refer to the world as a whole, and not just the northern continent.

[Quintus Antonius]

The Prophecies Prima Guide is a taboo subject. It was inaccurate and anything you can think of that a guide "should" include, it doesn't.

[Gmr Leon]

The Prophecies Prima Guide is a taboo subject. It was inaccurate and anything you can think of that a guide "should" include, it doesn't.

Well then that clears that question up.

[Minionman]

I think they already did that. I don't think they intended for the entire world of GW to be Tyria, just the continent, and that all expansions would be put on the world that they had established. But when they decided to add Cantha, they made the world "Tyria" and the continent the "namesake continent" so that for continuity, crucial storyline elements that refer to Tyria (i.e. the Flameseeker Prophecies) refer to the world as a whole, and not just the northern continent.

Cantha wasn't effected by anything in Tyria, except for a few minor quests, and in story terms it doesn't make sense for events in one stand alone campaign to have major effects on events in another stand-alone campaign happening around the same time, though there are obviously small details that connect everything.

It may be that in the part of the flameseeker prophecies get added to predict events in Elona, though I would guess not, as it seemed that the Tyrian campaign was supposed to be the ascalon heros carrying out the prophecies, and the prophecies are named after the Lich, so adding them as a major part of other stories seems unlikely, though it is possible.

I'm guessing we will see several references in Elona though, just because of the Turai Ossa/crystal desert connection,

[Santax]

Cantha wasn't effected by anything in Tyria, except for a few minor quests, and in story terms it doesn't make sense for events in one stand alone campaign to have major effects on events in another stand-alone campaign happening around the same time, though there are obviously small details that connect everything.

It may be that in the part of the flameseeker prophecies get added to predict events in Elona, though I would guess not, as it seemed that the Tyrian campaign was supposed to be the ascalon heros carrying out the prophecies, and the prophecies are named after the Lich, so adding them as a major part of other stories seems unlikely, though it is possible.

I'm guessing we will see several references in Elona though, just because of the Turai Ossa/crystal desert connection,
Yes, it did seem that Cantha and Tyria are extremely loosely linked. However, when the dev team decided that the world would be "Tyria", they probably had Elona in mind moreso than Cantha. I personally feel that Nightfall will wrap Prophecies up more than it will wrap Factions. In any case, we haven't actually seen the entire transcript of the Flameseeker Prophecies.

EDIT: And yes, remember that Turai Ossa and his Elonians, while not the Chosen they believed themselves to be, still Ascended the heroes and without him, the Prophecies would never become completed.

[Minionman]

My guess overall is that we will get some bits of why some tyrian things happened as they did, and maybe some backstory for the Tyrian prophecies, but if Elonian events are mentioned at all in the prophecies, they will just be a small part.

edit: to get this slightly back on track, if the titan were created from some flaming area, that could be why the flameseeker is seeking flame, vs. something else. Since the charr seemed to have worshipped titans, and the charr use fire magic, it seems likely that titans are more associated with flame, even though they can use plants and such for bodies.