View Full Version : Should Heroes Ascent be 8 vs 8 rather than 6 vs 6?
Djinn Effer
26-12-2006, 22:48
Well, I understand polls were conducted before; so, now that everyone's had a fair bit of time to experience HA in 6vs6, do you think we should revert to 8vs8?
Nearly everyone I've seen thinks we should, there's threads with petitions and most of the people posting in the suggestion/fix threads are saying 8vs8. So, let's get a better way to display this.
This question should be a simple yes, or no; however, I know that there's probably a lot of people on these forums that don't play HA, not sure why they'd even be voting on this to be honest, but I'm adding a third option so they can choose that rather than voting on something they don't know about.
I urge any PVE, any non HA players who are reading this thread, not to pick 8v8 or 6v6 at random, for the good of the community, if you have no HA experience, please only pick the last option.
Those results sure are showing a trend... Perhaps Anet can realize what the PvPers want now?
The results you have so far are not enough to "show a trend". While I personally support 8vs8, 40ish votes are not enough to mean anything statistically. Let's hope more ppl from HA community participate :smiley:
Nurse With Wound
27-12-2006, 14:15
FYI, most of us hang out at guru tho >.> I know lots of highly ranked, experienced HA regulars who dont have accounts here :(. And while I i strongly support 8v8 ( i stopped playing at all in 6v6 ), I think poll is a bad idea it can shoot back at us.... Still voted tho.....
Lord Mendes
27-12-2006, 16:55
someone should link this to guru...
Let's hope more ppl from HA community participate :smiley:
This is what bothers me most. So few people of the current HA scene acknowledge they are such in the forums.
Leave it at 6v6 s my vote. As I stated in several other threads change the HoH endgame and observe those results first.
Thanks for linking this on Guru. Let's hope a lot of people vote.
Something I just want to add, if you go into HA id1, and ask in all chat, 8v8 or 6v6. Just about everyone shouts "8v8!!!!".
Try it.
These are the same people who are playing the 6v6.
Something I just want to add, if you go into HA id1, and ask in all chat, 8v8 or 6v6. Just about everyone shouts "8v8!!!!".
Try it.
These are the same people who are playing the 6v6.
Someone should spam this link in id1. I would but I'm leveling my rogue.
Djinn Effer
28-12-2006, 02:38
Someone should spam this link in id1. I would but I'm leveling my rogue.
I was the other day via party seach afking... I'll go do it again while I'm gone tonight.
the only people that would vote for 6v6 are the people that used Heroway SF build
but now because heros are nerfed in HA there is no1 left to vote for 6v6
gasmaskman
28-12-2006, 05:37
It shouldn't be 8v8 or 6v6, it should be why would anyone ever pick 6v6 over 8v8?
It shouldn't be 8v8 or 6v6, it should be why would anyone ever pick 6v6 over 8v8?
...What? You mean the poll question? Yeh, agreed, but that would seem a little too forward.
The Pointless
28-12-2006, 13:58
To be honest there should have been a 4th option - "I don't care" - since to be honest I don't give a flying :censored: what ANet does to it. And for those trying to get the numbers of those after 8v8 up... please. You are not the majority. The majority are those who wouldn't know what a forum looks like.
But, I voted the 3rd option.
It's ANet's game anyways, whinge all you want, but it's up to them what they do with it.
Lord Mendes
28-12-2006, 14:44
And for those trying to get the numbers of those after 8v8 up... please. You are not the majority. The majority are those who wouldn't know what a forum looks like.
Yeah I guess that explains why there were more than twice as many districts back in 8v8.
Frankly, the fact that you don't care is a great indication of how little you know about HA. Most people playing HA right now (in 6v6) are in favor of changing back to 8v8.
FACT: The majority of HAers want 8v8 back.
The Pointless
28-12-2006, 15:30
Well, if you ask me, if you wanted 8v8 that bad, you would have opted not to play 6v6 and encouraged others not to play 6v6... right? :huh:
CassiusDrehyg
28-12-2006, 16:51
The Pointless, it wasn't our choice to play 6v6 in the first place. Anet magically decided that 6v6 was the best option based on the fact that people who had never previously played HA turned up for the double fame weekend.
Fix HA Anet, we don't want another scrub arena :'(
Bring back our high level arena, vote 8v8.
Lord Mendes
28-12-2006, 16:57
Well, if you ask me, if you wanted 8v8 that bad, you would have opted not to play 6v6 and encouraged others not to play 6v6... right? :huh:
I personally took a break from guildwars and only returned when I found out that Anet is interested in changing something about it.
Most HAers are not playing anymore, and most those playing want 8v8 back (go to HA ID1 if you don't believe me).
Simple...
thedrjay
28-12-2006, 17:16
the pointless, your comments are reflective of your username. As someone who does not care about HA, choose the 3rd option and move along to another thread where someone will care about your views.
HA should be returned to it's previous incarnation of 8 vs 8. With the addition of the new Nightfall skills and new professions, HA will not return to it IWAY, B spike, etc... that it was prior to the introduction of 6 vs 6.
It would seem at this point that going back to 8v8 is an obvious change.
The Pointless
28-12-2006, 17:55
the pointless, your comments are reflective of your username.
Don't. Just don't. I'm merely trying to say that if you want 8v8 back, *****ing on a forum clearly isn't working. And those who are still playing are not helping you by playing 6v6, are they? :huh:
thedrjay
28-12-2006, 18:14
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=436135&page=8
As can be seen in the post above, gaile is requesting suggestions about HA. The Djinn has taken the time to create a poll on this site to consoladate players feelings about the 2 environments and which one they prefer. Now as has been stated numerous times by Gaile, "if you would like to make a suggestions about the game, do so on one of the forum sites." Now that isn't whining, it's trying to show A-Net that the vast majority of players preferred the 8 vs 8 environment. Point 1 negated.
Players are currently participating in HA, because it is better to play than not to. However a significant portion of the HA population as either moved on to a different format or quit completely. If something is messed up in PvE do you stop playing PvE?
The Pointless
28-12-2006, 18:23
If something is messed up in PvE do you stop playing PvE?
No, but that's because I adjust to it or find something that doesn't involve that messed up thing. If it was truly game-breaking to the point that I couldn't do sod all, then I'd stop.
No, but that's because I adjust to it or find something that doesn't involve that messed up thing. If it was truly game-breaking to the point that I couldn't do sod all, then I'd stop.
PVE players seem to like the words "adapt" or "adjust" recently.
Guess what, PVE isn't competitive, they nerf a skill? use another one, frankly use any one, all you have to do is throw damage skills at a monster until it dies, a nerf in PVE means nothing accept the time it takes to kill a monster will be X halves of a second longer.
PVP is a competitive environment. Skill balance actually matters, the playfield actually matters.
And I will never adapt to a change that makes the game no longer fun to play.
thedrjay
28-12-2006, 19:17
No, but that's because I adjust to it or find something that doesn't involve that messed up thing. If it was truly game-breaking to the point that I couldn't do sod all, then I'd stop.
Well what do you think we're trying to accomplish? Getting them to change the environment back before it truly does become a ghost town.
The Pointless
28-12-2006, 19:46
PVE players seem to like the words "adapt" or "adjust" recently.
Guess what, PVE isn't competitive, they nerf a skill? use another one, frankly use any one, all you have to do is throw damage skills at a monster until it dies, a nerf in PVE means nothing accept the time it takes to kill a monster will be X halves of a second longer.
PVP is a competitive environment. Skill balance actually matters, the playfield actually matters.
And I will never adapt to a change that makes the game no longer fun to play.
I do PvP as well, you know, and I've never been affected by a "nerf" I couldn't work around.
Don't. Just don't. I'm merely trying to say that if you want 8v8 back, *****ing on a forum clearly isn't working. And those who are still playing are not helping you by playing 6v6, are they? :huh:
Then what do you suggest we do hmm?
If something is messed up in PvE do you stop playing PvE?
Generally avoid that aspect until it gets fixed. Usually some sort of game crash to get me considered it is messed up.
PVE players seem to like the words "adapt" or "adjust" recently.
A sizable amount of the player base needs to learn those two words.
And I will never adapt to a change that makes the game no longer fun to play."Fun" is objective.
CassiusDrehyg
28-12-2006, 20:40
Okay. I really need to enlighten you unto something, Pointless:
Farming 10k Luxon/Kurzick faction per day with a touch ranger is NOT high-end PvP. You do not play HA, so you are not qualified to give opinions on it. There are many forums here pertaining to the happy land we call PvE, please go and post on them, because people there might actually care what you think.
It's good that Djinn has taken the time to make this poll and actually ask people what they think. People who don't even play HA, such as you Pointless, should click the checkbox that says "I do not partake in HA enough to properly assess this issue." Then you may return to the threads that discuss farming and/or how much you hate the Luxons/Kurzicks.
Lord Natural
28-12-2006, 20:49
Well, if you ask me, if you wanted 8v8 that bad, you would have opted not to play 6v6 and encouraged others not to play 6v6... right? :huh:
That's a flawed argument. There are some players who primarily log on to gw for HA (just as with the other forms on the game). If they quit HA, they quit the game. If that's the case, they wouldn't be trolling forums, and would have just moved on. Unfortunately a lot of players have done just this; Quit, moved on to WoW, etc. So if players are not having fun playing 6v6, players who don't have fun leave the game, and the poll indicates 80% of players dislike 6v6, what conclusion would you draw? (and anyone who's actually active in HA and not just on the HA forum, knows that players in game share the same opinion).
If you disagree with that assessment, that's fine. But if you're going to get involved in the argument, then provide us with a breakdown of how 6v6 is the superior form, other than, "If you don't like it, don't play it.".
The Pointless
28-12-2006, 21:13
Okay. I really need to enlighten you unto something, Pointless:
Farming 10k Luxon/Kurzick faction per day with a touch ranger is NOT high-end PvP. You do not play HA, so you are not qualified to give opinions on it. There are many forums here pertaining to the happy land we call PvE, please go and post on them, because people there might actually care what you think.
It's good that Djinn has taken the time to make this poll and actually ask people what they think. People who don't even play HA, such as you Pointless, should click the checkbox that says "I do not partake in HA enough to properly assess this issue." Then you may return to the threads that discuss farming and/or how much you hate the Luxons/Kurzicks.
:huh:
I already voted that, how many times do I have to say that?
And never make assumptions as to what I am as a player. You've never met me, you've clearly never read the discussions I've commented in.
I don't care about farming, I've never used a Touch Ranger and I couldn't give a flying :censored: about the stupid Luxon v Kurzick BS since it's so painfully easy to "switch" sides, I want to personally break the face of the next Faction troublemaker to set foot into Cavalon or HzH and tell him to stop playing videogames.
Lord Natural, what I was trying to get at wasn't "If you don't like it, don't play it", but more... I dunno, do something about it. Ingame. Think of something other than constantly whinging about it on a forum or spamming Gaile when she turns up at Kamadan.
If you ask me, too many people take this game too seriously anyways. All I was trying to do was give the opinion of someone just a little more "Meh" about the situation. I'm not taking sides or anything.
Ingame, I just play whatever hand I'm dealt, anyways. :undecided:
thedrjay
28-12-2006, 21:35
:huh:
Lord Natural, what I was trying to get at wasn't "If you don't like it, don't play it", but more... I dunno, do something about it. Ingame. Think of something other than constantly whinging about it on a forum or spamming Gaile when she turns up at Kamadan.
Ingame, I just play whatever hand I'm dealt, anyways. :undecided:
Wait, so Gaile asks us to post in the forums with suggestions for improvement when she is ingame, which is what is being done. All emails sent to A-net in regards to suggestions, state that we should post in the forums. What exactly do you propose, oh wise one, that we do ingame when we have been directed to forums such as this one to propose solutions and improvements?
I refuse to waste my time ingame telling people to not play HA and to strike until a-Net changes it back. It's a waste of my time.
I used to adore 8v8 HA, it was really really fun. 6v6 came around and I constantly found less less and less dedicated groups and people to it, less people using coordinated strats with VoIP, jus going in. I much perfer 8v8, but maybe we could have a seperate PvP zone for 6v6, but put HA back to 8v8.
B Ephekt
28-12-2006, 22:00
And on that bombshell... I sense this thread going downhill very fast. :undecided:
To be honest there should have been a 4th option - "I don't care" - since to be honest I don't give a flying :censored: what ANet does to it. And for those trying to get the numbers of those after 8v8 up... please. You are not the majority. The majority are those who wouldn't know what a forum looks like.
But, I voted the 3rd option.
It's ANet's game anyways, whinge all you want, but it's up to them what they do with it.Your user name sums that post up nicely. Thanks for explaining at length why you "don't care," though.
And actually, it's OUR game in a sense, because without us Anet would have no players to fuel their business. Thanks.
The Pointless
28-12-2006, 22:29
Your user name sums that post up nicely. Thanks for explaining at length why you "don't care," though.
Thanks for stooping to such childish acts of insulting a person's username. :rolleyes:
And actually, it's OUR game in a sense, because without us Anet would have no players to fuel their business. Thanks.
True, but if ANet listened and acted on every player's suggestion - including the frankly moronic ideas - the game would be a mess, don't you agree?
Thanks for stooping to such childish acts of insulting a person's username. :rolleyes:
lol@your username
True, but if ANet listened and acted on every player's suggestion - including the frankly moronic ideas - the game would be a mess, don't you agree?
Perhaps he meant the majority... or us pvpers who actually know how to play HA.
B Ephekt
28-12-2006, 23:51
Thanks for stooping to such childish acts of insulting a person's username. :rolleyes: I don't see pointing out blatant irony to be childish, but I'm not going to argue about it.
True, but if ANet listened and acted on every player's suggestion - including the frankly moronic ideas - the game would be a mess, don't you agree? Look, stop taking things out of context. No sensible players are suggesting that. Thanks to posts on these fan sites Anet has noticed the community's distaste for what HA has become, and is actively seeking suggestions (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=436135) for community supported improvements. You can't really argue with that, so pretty much all your points are moot. Arguing about the poor nature of some suggestion is irrelevent, not to mention completely asinine, in the context of this thread.
Djinn Effer
29-12-2006, 00:22
Guys, keep it on topic; this is getting too close to an all out flame war for comfort.
what I was trying to get at wasn't "If you don't like it, don't play it", but more... I dunno, do something about it.
I have made constant efforts to help improve the HA community, both in-game and otherwise. Possibly more than any other player that uses these forums. Seeing as to how ANet actually reads these forums, regardless if they respond to every post or make actions instantly on your behalf, posting viable solutions to current situations here is a good proposal. As I'm aware, ANet staff does not monitor in-game chat sessions, so converting possibly 30 people to get all riled up about what you're saying (probably through trade spam) out of the thousands, if not millions of players (which nobody will ever know about later) -- wait, what would this accomplish? Well, nothing.
If you look at some more constructive posts, most people have not been "whining," most have actually been putting effort in to giving viable solutions to the problems in HA -- which is the goal here, especially when requested by a member of the ANet staff.
As per your logic: "if you don't like it, don't play" - if you don't care about the poll, don't post about it. Nice alternative, yes yes? No, I'm not telling you to go back to RA or back to your hawt turtle sex, I don't even know you; but judging by your opinions stated, if you don't care about something it would be better left untouched.
The Pointless
29-12-2006, 00:35
If you look at some more constructive posts, most people have not been "whining," most have actually been putting effort in to giving viable solutions to the problems in HA -- which is the goal here, especially when requested by a member of the ANet staff.
I suppose you're right... Sorry about that. Every time I see a thread about HA, it always seems to be one of the "whinging" ones or a doomsayer, out to annoy everyone. Guess just seeing the title set off alarm bells :embarassed:
Your Fear Is Big
29-12-2006, 16:04
8v8 is far more fun
Wow so many new accs. So pps are this time seriouse. Ill try to get some Guildies for the poll.
Lord Natural
29-12-2006, 19:44
I suppose you're right... Sorry about that. Every time I see a thread about HA, it always seems to be one of the "whinging" ones or a doomsayer, out to annoy everyone. Guess just seeing the title set off alarm bells :embarassed:
There are many constructive criticisms in Gaile's "summary" thread. This poll should only be telling anet what they already know. 8v8 won't fix HA by itself, just as removing heroes didn't. But it is the next logical step, unless they plan a major update which solves multiple issues simultaneously.
GuildWarsGirlAmy
30-12-2006, 17:32
Yes of course. Anybody who has experienced both a great deal will know that 8v8 is better.
6 vs 6
8 vs 8
Makes no difference. People aern't going to invite you into a party in HA unless you're r9+
Dazz the enchanter
30-12-2006, 23:56
errr, can you back that statement up? whenever i visit heroes ascent, (which is rare now i admit) i would say that the r9+ groups are the ones i see the least looking for people. Most r9+ teams are made up of friends most of the time. Far more 3+/6+/unranked looking for people, in my opinion.
Yes if your less than r9 you will rarely get invited to r9+ groups, but thats down to anets rank mechanics and "eliteism" which is discussed in another thread. dont wanna go off track :wink:
CassiusDrehyg
31-12-2006, 00:05
From my experience of rank 9 groups, they don't usually look further than pressing N or G for someone to fill the spaces in their team. What I don't understand is that lower ranked players can't do this as well instead of badgering ANet to "improve their situation."
Rank discrimination is real, and whether you like it or not, R9++, R6++ and indeed R3++ groups usually accept people of that rank because they are more experienced than the person trying to randomly invite you to his pug with a W/Mo19, and because of the fact that they would like to win.
If you're in need of help finding a party, the P key is your new friend. I suggest you try this new-fangled feature out someday, it'll be the answer to your prayers :)
Pharell B
31-12-2006, 22:17
Yes it should be 8v8. It is a good place for guild to practice and an alternative instead of smurf guilds.
TeeBeeNZ
01-01-2007, 06:45
But the Big question is why not 7v7 :)
grimwold
01-01-2007, 11:53
But the Big question is why not 7v7 :)
probably because we - the people who actually play there and enjoyed it - are respectfully requesting that we get our old pvp arena back to the way it was before it was ruthlessly and needlessly altered.
Yes it should be 8v8. It is a good place for guild to practice and an alternative instead of smurf guilds.Then what's the purpose of unranked matches and scrims.
Rentrank
05-01-2007, 16:19
8v8 ftw 6v6 is so stupid
Tuor Son Of Huor
06-01-2007, 00:23
8v8 ftw 6v6 is so stupid
Wow, you've convinced me with your insurmountable logic! /sarcasm
I think this thread (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=437704&page=5) has some good points, especially:
The 8v8/6v6 debate has been a giant pain. People who some claim they are trying to do what's best for HA push it above anything else, yet the one constant that I've seen from players isn't the friggen number of players.
It's the maps, the mechanics, and the endgame.
People need to let the 8v8/6v6 drop so the debate can focus on the real problem.
probably because we - the people who actually play there and enjoyed it - are respectfully requesting that we get our old pvp arena back to the way it was before it was ruthlessly and needlessly altered.
*cough* respectfully *cough*
I hear too much whining from those who want 8v8 back. You call that respectfully? It's a good thing you aren't rude then..
ToSpiteMyself
08-01-2007, 05:57
To put it simply, yes, I prefer Heroes' Ascent as an 8 vs 8 setting. The teams of 6 seem to be lacking something to me.
Parker Bsb
08-01-2007, 13:22
*cough* respectfully *cough*
I hear too much whining from those who want 8v8 back. You call that respectfully? It's a good thing you aren't rude then..
Personally I havn't noticed very much whining, mostly people stating their opinions.
WHICH LEADS ME TO MY NEXT POINT
Stop the random flames, criticize the post not the poster.
BTW Having played a significant amount of 6v6 now I feel I can say I did prefer the 8v8 format much better.
Laura Fantus
08-01-2007, 17:34
Ok, I have played the 6x6 HA. Lots. People said "Give 6v6 a chance" and so I did. So, after a lengthy and carefully conducted evaluation I have come to the following final verdict:
I want 8v8 back!
Period.
grimwold
08-01-2007, 18:49
*cough* respectfully *cough*
I hear too much whining from those who want 8v8 back. You call that respectfully? It's a good thing you aren't rude then..
thats right, i am respectfully asking it goes backto 8v8, as are a lot of people. id say 90% of people agree with me, and we are still waiting on a single good reason why 6v6 is a better choice.
Amor Morte
09-01-2007, 18:16
I agree with people saying that 8v8 is not the be all and end all answer to HA's problems. But changing it back to how it was wont hurt, and it's what the people want.
So.. errrr. do it.
And maybe update it a bit whilst you are at it.. Ya know, like you do with all the other PvE areas. Because I heard you are pretty good at that.
Your Fear Is Big
18-01-2007, 18:34
Wow, you've convinced me with your insurmountable logic! /sarcasm
I think this thread (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=437704&page=5) has some good points, especially:
that guy just get in teams now cus theres more r0 teams cus many r10+ active hoh ppl left when anet made it 6v6 8v8, new maps with new objectives would be Ressing HA but i heard they are not making it 8v8 we'll see if they new maps will save HA.
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9379/gw508fs2.gif (http://imageshack.us)
Uriah_Heep
21-01-2007, 17:26
Observation: There were more districts and fuller districts when HA was 8v8.
Simple Math: 8 player team allows for more variety and creativity than a 6 player team.
Opinion: I want the old 8v8 HA back with 1 kill count map, 1 old school altar holding map, Scarred Earth should be back but later in the rotation so that killing 2 teams yields more fame, random HoH but something else instead of Murder Ball, this one is silly.
I would like to point out a great thing (my opinion) about 6v6 and about 8v8.
6v6: I don't have enough guildies to GvG, I go to HA instead (unless I can guest GvG).
8v8: Build flexibility/creativity is boundless when you add 2 more players to the mix = fun fun fun
I honestly prefer 8v8 over 6v6. But, I do rarely HA (GvG ftw), so the third option is definately my vote.
If they make 8v8 after keeping the changes they introduced at this weekend...
HoH=Meat! Meat! Meat! Just imagine 24 players blocking each other on narrow spaces. EoE bomb anyone?
But I agree about build flexibility and fun. I played ha when it was 8v8 and when it became 6v6... But after changes of this weekend, I tend to think 6v6 is better for new victory conditions...
But that's just a random thought. Need more time to analyze the changes they tried to make.. didn't have much dduring this weekend...
Those results sure are showing a trend... Perhaps Anet can realize what the PvPers want now?
What PvPers want is their IWAY and spike teams back... as opposed to original, balanced teams which they hate playing. You're just going to have to get used to it I'm afraid.
What PvPers want is their IWAY and spike teams back... as opposed to original, balanced teams which they hate playing. You're just going to have to get used to it I'm afraid.Oyea zergway and triple sandstorm are very original and balanced.
8v8 would enable original and balanced teams.
Shadowleaf
22-01-2007, 15:51
What PvPers want is their IWAY and spike teams back... as opposed to original, balanced teams which they hate playing. You're just going to have to get used to it I'm afraid.
So what you're saying is that PvPers should not get their way when it comes to PvP? If most of the people who are interested in PvP want IWAY and Spike teams, who cares?
However, this is not the case. The hardcore PvP people don't want these teams back, plus, spike teams and IWAY have not disappeared. Zergway is basically IWAY without the skill "I Will Avenge you!"; It's a cookie cutter monkless build focused on extreme Warrior pressure.
Signet of Mystic Wrath teams are even worse than Blood Spike because if you don't have enchantment removal, you will never kill them.
At first, I thought 6v6 was more fun. The metagame felt fresh, people were still figuring the format out. Also, I didn't have many friends in the PvP world at the time and I couldn't play 8v8 very much, plus the unranked PuGs were terrible.
Then the metagame stagnated and I realized that it wasn't better at all. Even from the limited 8v8 I had played, I am sure it would be better to go back to that.
Also, here's the most important problem with 6v6 as I see it... People are not learning how to play. These rank 4, 5 and 6 Monks who got their rank during 6v6 are not playing against anything but spammable damage builds. Likewise, the other characters are just spamming at the enemy backline/training on it.
Ranger Nietzsche
22-01-2007, 19:07
i think the new victory conditions would be better suited to 8v8. The only way to bring enough tools to do all victory condtions successfully is with 8 people.
B Ephekt
22-01-2007, 20:11
The new win conditions were nice imo, I had more fun tombing this weekend that I've had since 6v6 was implemented. HA still feels limited by 6v6 though; in fact, the new updates only highlight this. You really need those party slots for utility - things like mass enchant removal, speed buffs, or those few hard counter skills like shields up or the like.
Midnight De Blood
23-01-2007, 03:50
8v8 makes me think Zergway +2 other classes which would be just another cookie-cutter build and the skill changes that would need to be done would be more of a PVE hell sure it would help PVP but this game trys to balance the two, and does a over all good job. 8v8 screams Cookie-Cutter and I hate that idea either way i will it goes i will play HA i just hate the Iway thinking
8v8 makes me think Zergway +2 other classes which would be just another cookie-cutter build and the skill changes that would need to be done would be more of a PVE hell sure it would help PVP but this game trys to balance the two, and does a over all good job. 8v8 screams Cookie-Cutter and I hate that idea either way i will it goes i will play HA i just hate the Iway thinking
If Zergway is that overpowerd why it isnt used in GvG. Math was using iway in GvG and they got r35. Alote of other Guilds got r 100+ with iway in GvG. I dont think Zergway is overpowerd. There are alote of hex con Builds that can easy finish of Zergs, and if u have a good team just spike the AB down till they have no Sigs and finish of the team.
8vs8 will not just make Zergway
strongerl. Also Spirit spammer and SS will have more power. (Searing flame spike with 5 spiker Oo or 5 Sandstorm arcain echo with obsidian flame)
3 monks (like the old days) 2 healer 1 prot. Moreover two ritu spammer (1 restoration 1 Communing) in a 8vs8 with n/rt n/mo builds (new blood spike builds with alote of new skills). Minion factory with Jagged bones (Two saccer to master). And alote of other thinks.
There are alote of more options
Ranger Nietzsche
23-01-2007, 23:42
Spirit Hex was always powerful in 8 man and it still will be.
we were running it with great success back in September, and NF just made the build even better.
So expect to see more of it
Tristan Chapin
02-02-2007, 11:18
Skills are balanced with 8-man squads in mind because it's the standard team size for Guild Wars. Stepping down to 6v6 puts a premium on skills with general utility rather than skills with specific power. In 8v8 it is easier to "overload" on a specific front (such as hexes, or instant damage (spikes), melee pressure, etc.) whereas 6v6 squads are usually balanced squads consisting of a 2-martial frontline, 2-caster midline, and 2-monk backline. I dunno... if I wanted to play a balanced build all the time, I'd probably just stick with Counterstrike. There are over a thousand skills in GW though-- the game was clearly designed to allow jankiness a generous margin of success at all levels of play. 8-player teams are where it's at.
Ranger Nietzsche
02-02-2007, 17:22
give it time. with all these adjustments I'd say its a matter of weeks until there is an 8v8 "testing weekend"
Yes, exactly one week. It'll start on 2007-02-09.
thedrjay
02-02-2007, 23:21
Where is that info located?
GWGuru (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2503427)
7890
Kylden Ar
04-02-2007, 17:31
I do not partake in HA enough to properly assess this issue.
Mind you, I'd like to more. But until the American'ts learn to stop with the cookie cutter builds and rank discrimination, it is really too much of a frustrating disappointment to really bother trying. :angry:
I love GvG (when the guild isn't distracted by new shiny) and AB, but those are different fish.
Ranger Nietzsche
05-02-2007, 16:12
I do not partake in HA enough to properly assess this issue.
Mind you, I'd like to more. But until the American'ts learn to stop with the cookie cutter builds and rank discrimination, it is really too much of a frustrating disappointment to really bother trying. :angry:
I love GvG (when the guild isn't distracted by new shiny) and AB, but those are different fish.
then play in ID and see that the europeans are just as bad. Cookie Cutter rank discrimination an PUGgin go hand in hand.
Since you GvG then try HAing with your guild.
Kylden Ar
08-02-2007, 18:13
Since you GvG then try HAing with your guild.
Ironically, we were about to start trying that. Then Vanguard game out and the guild hall is a ghost town. :cry:
thedrjay
08-02-2007, 19:14
Time to get a new guild if your interest is still with GW.
nothing major about the update if yall REALLY think about it in depth..yall see
Ranger Nietzsche
09-02-2007, 23:49
8v8 is here and GLORIOUS
yeah, it's 3-2-1-spike-ascent again. yay.
joy and...sarcasim comes hand to hand. On one hand I can run a balance build. On the other hand most people are sooo stupid that running a balance build that actually works is unlikely. On the other hand infusers will get plenty of pratice......all the spiking going on might remind me of the days of ranger spike.
Almas Darksoul
10-02-2007, 01:26
I've been playing spike to farm some lame wins while a lot of teams are clueless. Balanced is still very viable though - most of our losses have been due to it. Teams just have to recognise how to pressure effectively against spike (IE take skills such as choking gas, cry of frustration) so that the build type falls out of favour again.
I see myself dusting out the old blood spike build. easy fame....
halfthought
10-02-2007, 04:42
/sigh
spikers acent, here I come, I saw some hall action and....
paraspike vs ritspike(us) vs necrospike
woohoo?
BRING BACK 6v6!
on a lighter not, the (us) one :grin:
/sigh
spikers acent, here I come, I saw some hall action and....
paraspike vs ritspike(us) vs necrospike
woohoo?
BRING BACK 6v6!
on a lighter not, the (us) one :grin:
Spiking is down to the new kill count mechanic, NOT the 8v8 change, people were already running rit spike in 6v6 due to the mechanic change, that and glass arrows ranger spike.
Midnight De Blood
11-02-2007, 13:52
Spiking is down to the new kill count mechanic, NOT the 8v8 change, people were already running rit spike in 6v6 due to the mechanic change, that and glass arrows ranger spike.
this is partly true it was mechanics and rit buffs but with 6v6 the counters(choking and such) was much more effective, where as in 8v8 its dam hard to stop the spikes and i have seen ALOT of spike builds able to hold there own in all 4 HoH match types and i have seen several teams hold HoH tough all of these matches which i had not seen in 6v6
this is partly true it was mechanics and rit buffs but with 6v6 the counters(choking and such) was much more effective, where as in 8v8 its dam hard to stop the spikes and i have seen ALOT of spike builds able to hold there own in all 4 HoH match types and i have seen several teams hold HoH tough all of these matches which i had not seen in 6v6
This is untrue, the counters are easy in both 8v8 and 6v6, I was running 2 cry frustration mantra of recovery mesmers in 8v8, the problem is that the spike team will just run away from you and spike the team without counters.
Again, it's a kill count problem, the spikes are easily beatable with balanced in a 1v1 situation, whilst in kill count they're unstoppable.
Midnight De Blood
11-02-2007, 18:29
i find it WAY easier to avoid the counters with the spike builds i am useing in 8v8 because most of the time only 2 of us are getting interrupted once in a while 3 if the team is good then conters shouldn't be an issue in 8v8, because 3-4 is all thats needed for a kill and in 6v6 u only have that many spikers. Thats why u can't use blood spike in 6v6. i agree that the counters work in 8v8 but with a group that knows to spread out instead of balling up its way less effective
i find it WAY easier to avoid the counters with the spike builds i am useing in 8v8 because most of the time only 2 of us are getting interrupted once in a while 3 if the team is good then conters shouldn't be an issue in 8v8, because 3-4 is all thats needed for a kill and in 6v6 u only have that many spikers. Thats why u can't use blood spike in 6v6. i agree that the counters work in 8v8 but with a group that knows to spread out instead of balling up its way less effective
You can blood spike in 6v6, it's a pressure build not a spike build and it still works fine. People weren't using it because people have moved generally to pressure now, but with the return of kill counts comes the return of spikes, the only way to win.
You can blood spike in 6v6, it's a pressure build not a spike build
It's very name is Blood Spike. It is a spike build. Count down and try to eliminate a single target in a single volley.
Spiking is down to the new kill count mechanic, NOT the 8v8 change, people were already running rit spike in 6v6 due to the mechanic change, that and glass arrows ranger spike.
It's 8v8 taking advantage of the new mechanic.
This is untrue, the counters are easy in both 8v8 and 6v6
Interrupts start to lose effect in 8v8 as the spikes have more damage from more spikers. You get one maybe two, but the other 4 go through and either the target is dead or near dead. There is that much overspike to clear 500 dmg.
I might get flamed, but in 6v6 there are more ways to stop a spike. A simple Reversal of Fortune pre prot on a the target can wreck many 6v6 spikes. The spikes almost needed everything the spiker had to succeed in one shot or the target was left alive and quickly hit with Infuse Health or Zealous Benediction. Many quick defensive spells like RoF, Vengeful Weapon, and Weapon of Remedy are more effective at
I'm not going to waste time responding to all the ugly parallel threads individually. I'll do it bulk here and now.
Other interesting spike builds I saw included a Rt/R ranger spike (Nightmare Weapon) using four spikers, an orders necro and three defensive characters. Very strong due to having lots of hard rezz skills and defensive spirits constantly being played, as well as a highly damaging spike.
Quite cute to see the prevalence of Icy Veins/Soul Barbs spikes, ran into 2-3 of those.
Both of these could be seen in 6v6 as of last week. I ran into both.
Icy Veins spike build was murder to many others since most builds had 2 maybe three hex removals. Version of it I saw, also used several degen hexes to provide pressure and to draw out hex removal before the spike.
So what is balanced in 6v6? As far as I can see its impossible to run a balanced in a 6 man team.
So what were the teams last week with a warrior or thumper, burst assassin, Sandstorm Warder/runner, ZB prot, and a LoD monk, with some 6th character that varied.
It's obvious that some people have some pretty wide ideas on what balanced is.
ImSoToast
11-02-2007, 21:39
It's very name is Blood Spike. It is a spike build. Count down and try to eliminate a single target in a single volley.
It's 8v8 taking advantage of the new mechanic.
Interrupts start to lose effect in 8v8 as the spikes have more damage from more spikers. You get one maybe two, but the other 4 go through and either the target is dead or near dead. There is that much overspike to clear 500 dmg.
I might get flamed, but in 6v6 there are more ways to stop a spike. A simple Reversal of Fortune pre prot on a the target can wreck many 6v6 spikes. The spikes almost needed everything the spiker had to succeed in one shot or the target was left alive and quickly hit with Infuse Health or Zealous Benediction. Many quick defensive spells like RoF, Vengeful Weapon, and Weapon of Remedy are more effective at
I'm not going to waste time responding to all the ugly parallel threads individually. I'll do it bulk here and now.
Both of these could be seen in 6v6 as of last week. I ran into both.
Icy Veins spike build was murder to many others since most builds had 2 maybe three hex removals. Version of it I saw, also used several degen hexes to provide pressure and to draw out hex removal before the spike.
So what were the teams last week with a warrior or thumper, burst assassin, Sandstorm Warder/runner, ZB prot, and a LoD monk, with some 6th character that varied.
It's obvious that some people have some pretty wide ideas on what balanced is.
Look buddha can you please name some balanced builds or not?
I ran randomway, r6+, in 6v6. The group was consisted of, 1 monk, 1 necro, 1 rit, 1 ele, and 2 melee. Is this balanced? You do realize, and I don't care if this sounds conceited, that while we ran this, won a couple, but not many, its not a viable build? I mean **** ask any r6+ player how many ****ty randomway groups tehy ran and totally destroyed other groups. Does this mean randomway is a viable build. NO. It just means that r6+ players are usually skilled enough that they can beat better builds through experience.
So who was this group you saw running this? I have yet to see in the last 2 months of halls any1 asking for something different than spiritway or maybe 2 other builds. OUtside of newb randomway groups, r6+ ****around groups, or plain and simply guild groups. Now you wanna throw all these groups into one category, thats fine, but guild groups, esp if they are decent will get away with way way way more than most other groups in ha.
I don't want to argue too much with you about being wrong or right, but lots of complaints you have about 8v8, IN MY EXPERIENCE are soooooo much worse in 6v6. Balanced is not viable in 6v6 simply because its missing what a balanced needs, UTILITY.
Please Buddha, when ha goes back to 6v6 in a week can you please make a group consisting of 1 warrior, 1 dervish or paragon, 2 monks, 1 necro and 1 mesmer. That was an example. BUt I do want you to make a balanced build that will not use the same profession outside of 2 monks. Please post a screen shot of you taking halls with this balanced build in 6v6. Can you please? I will support 6v6 over 8v8 if you do this. Don't know if it matters to you or if you care, but that would prove me wrong, to me and shut me up about the 6v6 bs that ha has become.
Crap iway was never ever as popular as spirit way is/was in the last month. NEVER EVER!
At least in 8v8 it was iway, vimway, and bloodpike. 3 fotms that lasted longer and had more variations that the single fotm being run in 6v6.
EDit*
Btw Buddha, my guild NEVER ran spiritway in 6v6. We had "our" own build we ran. DO you know how many times my guild was told..."wow its refreshing not to fight spiritway, thx." Now I'm not gonna claim that we were the only ones not running spirit way, but god dang it seemed like it. **** people have very short term memories. Some of my guildies, who hated sprit way, are now complaining about spikes, in a way. So they don't even remember complaining about spirit way a few days ago?
Buddah,
You say interupts start not being as useful in 8v8 because spikes have more damage that on paper does seem right. However most balanced teams run far more interupts in 8v8 than they do in 6v6. things like a cgas rangers are more popular in 8v8 than 6v6 and do counter many of the spike teams running around. yerah that relies on them standing close to each other but if the target being spiked can run away before or during the spike those spikers will bunch up to cast.
Also with more healing in 8man teams the infuser can concentrate on just infusing and saving valuble energy it would otherwise have spent on general healing or self heal after infusing.
Saying that 8v8 is taking advantage of the game mechanic in relation to kill count maps is true and I agree with that. however if the kill count maps were changed to a game type that didnt encourage spikes and large damage dealing teams over degen, shutdown etc, then we would see far more diveristy in builds being run in ha.
Im not saying spike teams would disapear but they would not be as common as they are currently. On the general idea of spikes being easier to counter in 6v6 over 8v8 it does depend on what sort of spike and what type of team you are running.
melandrus elite
11-02-2007, 22:20
Please Buddha, when ha goes back to 6v6 in a week can you please make a group consisting of 1 warrior, 1 dervish or paragon, 2 monks, 1 necro and 1 mesmer. That was an example. BUt I do want you to make a balanced build that will not use the same profession outside of 2 monks. Please post a screen shot of you taking halls with this balanced build in 6v6. Can you please? I will support 6v6 over 8v8 if you do this. Don't know if it matters to you or if you care, but that would prove me wrong, to me and shut me up about the 6v6 bs that ha has become.
You just set yourself up. I can see Buddah playing 24/7 for a month until he holds halls with "balance"
garidanthefighter
12-02-2007, 00:21
It's very name is Blood Spike. It is a spike build. Count down and try to eliminate a single target in a single volley.
Except they mostly don't eliminate a single target in a single volley. It's very easy for an infuser to catch bspikes, and the reason it is a pressure is because they keep spiking until the infuser runs low on energy and then they can kill. It's bursts of concentrated pressure, not spikes.
Ryuujinx
26-02-2007, 10:59
/signed on 8v8.
I ran balanced in 8v8 and it was so much more versatile.
You get 2 more spots to play with whcih makes it more fun IMO.
But all the same
6v6 kill count = ftl
8v8 kill count = ftl + 4
Kill count is lame.. pressure teams get screwed over.
It's very name is Blood Spike. It is a spike build. Count down and try to eliminate a single target in a single volley.
GG at failing at the first point there, the rest of your post isn't worth my time.
"OMGOMG ITS A SPIEK BECUZ DEY HAV IT IN TEH NAEM, IT DUSNT MATTAR DAT IT CANT CLEAN SPIKE OR DAT THEY SPIKE HARD AND FAST TU RUN DA MUNKS OUT OF DEM ENERGIEZ WITH QZ UP AND DAT PROT IS USELESS VERZUZ IT SO THEY HAVE TO INFUZE OTFEN MOER DEN WUNZE."
So what were the teams last week with a warrior or thumper, burst assassin, Sandstorm Warder/runner, ZB prot, and a LoD monk, with some 6th character that varied.
It's obvious that some people have some pretty wide ideas on what balanced is.
Some people like you? Thats hardly balanced, thats an add a load of damage and a bit of defense and googogogoggogogoggo. You probably define balanced by whether or not it spikes.
I see no utility, i see no flexibility, i see no balanced build at all. I see is a scrub's attempt at pressure.
Why make up bull**** about balanced and then give me an example that isnt even correct?
B Ephekt
26-02-2007, 15:50
GG at failing at the first point there, the rest of your post isn't worth my time.
"OMGOMG ITS A SPIEK BECUZ DEY HAV IT IN TEH NAEM, IT DUSNT MATTAR DAT IT CANT CLEAN SPIKE OR DAT THEY SPIKE HARD AND FAST TU RUN DA MUNKS OUT OF DEM ENERGIEZ WITH QZ UP AND DAT PROT IS USELESS VERZUZ IT SO THEY HAVE TO INFUZE OTFEN MOER DEN WUNZE."You might have a point if someone actually ran QZ blood spike sometime in the past 6 months. As soon as Factions came out, QZ bspike went away... since then bspike operates like any other spike build.
You might have a point if someone actually ran QZ blood spike sometime in the past 6 months. As soon as Factions came out, QZ bspike went away... since then bspike operates like any other spike build.
Now you're talking about OG spike, thats a different build.
OG Bspike is a build for nubs, hoping that an enemy will ball up and relies on 1 skill going on for the spike to go through. Woohoo, any good balanced > that.
Tristan Chapin
01-03-2007, 20:39
Noted that the HA forum's poll goes heavily in favor of 8v8 while the dev poll in the community discussion forum was pretty much evenly split. This supports the theory that routine HAers have a tendency to prefer 8v8.
Uda Duno
01-03-2007, 22:56
Prefer 8v8 but PLEASE get rid of the kill count!!!
I think the dev poll got a mass of ppl that had only experienced the 6v6 version....and so polluting the statistics somewhat...but im only 13% certain (according to a recent exit poll).
8v8 all the way plz..../agreed->without the headcount.
If you look at the Dev Poll:
Only 34% actually state a preferance for 6v6.
A massive 65.75% see advantages or prefer 8v8.
The differential shift between "somewhat prefer" and "strongly prefer" is far higher in favour of 8v8 (twice as high 19% over 9%)...which seems to indicate that the 8v8 crew are really bloody angry and bashed the vote button...whereas the 6v6 group didnt have such a strong view (allowing for more "somewhats"
But remember the old addage..there are lies....damned lies...and statistics.
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