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View Full Version : Seafaring Cultures - Margonites and Luxons


Shinigami God
20-02-2007, 03:54
Spoilers in all 3 Campaigns

First off, I'd like to apologize if this has already been stated or thought of before. If it has been, this is a pretty huge waste of time for me. :wink:

Crystal Desert Origins
For those of you who would like to follow to follow along with the investigation of these cultures, head to the Thirsty River mission within the Crystal Desert of Tyria and talk to our friend, the Ghostly Hero. He'll be giving us some interesting information about the Margonites, including some that is contradictory to the information we were given about the Margonites in the Nightfall campaign. However, a certain portion of his dialogue caught my eye. When asked, "How did they get here?" he responds:

"It might be hard to believe but many hundreds of years ago, much of the sand and sun-baked dunes were completely underwater. The Margonites, as you might have surmised by their architecture, were a sea-going culture, and they simply floated their way out here, looking for Ascension, backed when only the tops of dunes stuck out of the water.
They did not understand there is no earthly way to reach Ascension. Only by proving yourself worthy to the gods will they allow you access to their realm."

The main purpose of this quote is obviously that the Margonites were a sea-going culture. This is obvious from the Margonite ships deserted in the desert, but it's nice to have an in-game character clearly state it. The statement that the Crystal Desert was once basically an ocean is also quite nice, as it only supports what I'm trying to state.

Now, staying within the Crystal Desert, make your way to the Arid Sea. You may wish to travel from any outpost, but I've chosen Augury Rock. In an attached message to one of the mysterious Bleached Bones. If you've found the one I'm looking at, the one closest to the zoning area to Skyward Reach, you'll find this message:

"It came out of the dunes like a kraken out of the sea, all teeth and meaty, flapping jaw. There was no time, nowhere to go. It bit down on Menrick, and when it pulled away, all that was left of the man we had called our leader were his leather boots and the remnants of his ankles."

This obviously refers to a Wurm. Now, I think we can all agree that the Kraken and the Wurm are probably not related in any way. However, the fact that they even know about Kraken is something to consider, and something I'd link to the Luxons. Also note that the Arid Sea is one of the most likely places to be included in the once water-consumed desert, not only from the name but also from the landscape.

Finally, the final clue is hidden in something that one must pay about 20 USD to obtain, so I'm just going to share it with you outright. In the Factions Strategy Guide, it is mentioned that there is evidence that the Luxons were once in the Crystal Desert.

What we have now is...
...a bunch of facts that are easily related to one another. We know that the Margonites originated in the Crystal Desert, were seafarers, and were able to easily transverse the Crystal Desert as it was once covered in water. We also know that the Luxons, previously known to be a (former, at least) seafaring people, were once in the Crystal Desert.

Piecing it all Together
Now, I'm putting it all together. The Margonites were in the Crystal Desert far before the Exodus. This is obvious from the fact that they assisted Abaddon in his fight against the gods, which was directly before the Exodus. They probably travelled south from Elona to the Ruptured Heart, where the battle between gods occurred. They were a seafaring people before their hideous transformations, and there is probably some truth to the dialogue that the Ghostly Hero gives us about them being innocent. He probably didn't know of their treachery against the pantheon, but there was very likely a time when the Margonites worshiped all the gods as a whole. They were foreigners, likely from Elona, who migrated to the Crystal Desert by ship (presumably) seeking Ascension.

The Luxons are also seafaring people. It is proven and stated that they were in the Crystal Desert. There is also proof in the Bleached Bones of the Arid Sea I mentioned earlier. However, there is something wrong with the message of the Bleached Bones if we assume that the Luxons were in the Crystal Desert before they ever in Cantha. If the Luxons had seen Kraken before (as we can assume from the message in the Bones), then they must have been in Cantha before.

So, here's my conclusion. There are two possible conclusions. The first is that the Luxons and the Margonites were originally the same people. If this is so, then they originated in Cantha. They then migrated to the Crystal Desert, seeking Ascension. Then, they split up for whatever reason. The most likely reason is the heretic worship of Abaddon by the ancestors of the current Margonites. They then went their own separate ways, the Margonites eventually failing in their attempts to ascend, being saved by Abaddon and eventually perishing in the Ruptured Heart against the might of the 5 gods, while the Luxons migrated back to Cantha in what is now the Jade Sea.

The other conclusion is that the Luxons and Margonites were different people who met in the Crystal Desert (or in that time, the "Crystal Sea.") This is very possible, as the Margonites may have learned of Ascension in Elona. If this is correct, then the Luxons still originated in Cantha, while the Margonites presumably originated in Elona or at least some other continent. They met in the Crystal "Sea", and probably merged to some extent. I would imagined that their cultures merged a little too. Perhaps the warlike nature of the Luxons came from the Margonites? Who knows, but that is just one of the possibilities. The Luxons and Margonites would then split up in the same way as the previously mentioned theory.

Well, your thoughts? I'd like to thank you for making it all the way through this, if you actually did instead of skimming it over :grin:

-Shinigami God

Gmr Leon
20-02-2007, 04:20
A bit of something to correct, if they were in Elona they wouldn't have sailed south to the Ruptured Heart, I think you may mean Crystal Desert right there. Aside from that I would think that the Luxons being nomadic had a branch of a tribe sail into the Crystal Desert at one point in time while the rest remained in Cantha. The Margonites we know for sure originated in Elona though by this:

25 DR Margonite settlements appear along coastlines north and west of Elona. Margonite vessels rule the Unending Ocean.

The thing that confuses me about that little blip of information is the west part. What exactly is west of Elona other than a few small islands and a little peninsula with a large mountain?

Quintus Antonius
20-02-2007, 04:41
A port facing the sea? Margonites take their name from the Marga Coast. There are a lot of natural harbours in Western Elona. That's pretty much all there is to it in my mind.

Also, somewhere in Factions, I don't remember where, it may be the Loreguide from the Prima Guide, it says the ancestors of the Luxons may have sailed as far as the Crystal Desert. I think it's entirely probable and likely that the Margonites are a clan of Luxons.

Barinthus
20-02-2007, 07:11
Mmm I never made that connection.

This is purely off my head so I may be mistaken but from playing Factions I recall Luxons being very devoted toward the 5 gods in their own ways (that the kurzicks couldn't understand since their culture have other ways of expressing their devotion to those same gods). So suppose a clan or a group of Luxons turned toward Abbadon, this could be severe enough to cause a split.

Kalidri
20-02-2007, 07:24
My only counter argument to Luxons being related to the Margonites is cultural. That is the Luxons bear fairly greek-like names while the Margonites as I scan the names of bosses, don't strike me that way at all. Culturally they seem dissimilar. We know the Luxons traded out to the Crystal Desert (or Sea depending how long ago), but this might just mean they might have traded with the Margonites.

Also I might argue a difference in the ship construction seen in the Crystal desert vs what we see on the Jade Sea...though I need to gather evidence. It could be they are quite similar :) Ship construction type is a nice argument since ship design is pretty conservative over time. There's still boats being built that use the same basic hull design as viking ships (by this I mean row boats...common and rather pedestrian...but it is a good design). I think comparison is in order!

Quintus Antonius
20-02-2007, 14:56
A counterpoint to what you said Kalidri: What do you think we'd find if we compared the ancient Greeks to the Greeks today? Culturally they have some similarities, but the groups are almost completely different now. It's important to remember that there was a 1000+ time gap between Factions and the Luxons we are introduced to on the Jade Sea, who I must point out, have adapted to live on land, and the Luxons that might have existed 1000+ years ago.

Also, the Margonites had a temple to the Five Gods in the Crystal Desert, but they became so caught up with Abaddon that they desecrated it (according to the Gate of Madness mission).

Cu Chulain
20-02-2007, 15:17
I don't think there is really an issue in cultural dissimilarites as you would be surprised how much 2 or 3 cultures today can differ even if they were originally the same people. A good example of this would be the Indo-Europeans. Though they are not strictly a people as such they are a general grouping of people said to have come from around the same area and speak similar languages etc. The Celts are Indo-Europeans but so are modern Indians and Iranians and they are totally different. Hence I see no problem in the Luxons and Margonites being of the same people.

Shinigami God
21-02-2007, 00:36
This is actually making my head hurt. From the dated event Gmr Leon gave, which is fact, the Margonites were at least in Elona, and for that matter the Kournan region of Elona. The reason I say the Ruptured Heart is because that is the location of the Ruins of Morah mission, apparently where Abaddon and the Margonites fought against the gods. However, this very well may be a case of discrepancies between chapters, which is very easy to happen, as this links together tidbits of information from 3 campaigns. If the Margonites were originally Luxons, then they couldn't have been in the Kournan region of Elona. Didn't they perish in the Crystal Desert? Then again, Turai Ossa could very well be mistaken in his beliefs. I believe that the Margonites and the Luxons had different origins, but their cultures mixed together when they met in the Crystal Desert. Also, here's a map that proves the possibility of a Luxons migration to Tyria.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d36/shadow111705/LuxonMigration.jpg

Since Cantha is a continent to the south of Tyria and Elona, this route would allow them out without any contact with the mainland of cantha

Kalidri
21-02-2007, 05:47
It really is impossible to tell. If the Luxons are related to the Margonites and some splitting of the clans or tribes happened, they are awfully quiet about it. Even after 1,000 years a non-literate culture may remember that one clan did a bad thing in the far past. If they became warped and evil to the magnitude of the Margonites I would expect that to be preserved in the stories that Luxons tell. Anyhow I actually am neutral on this topic, just thought I would bring up the culture thing...

Though this brings up something interesting I observed today - probably someone already noticed that the luxons are in moddock crevice or the Corsairs picked up some interesting tent tricks? Or the Luxons learned from the Corsairs?

Moddock

http://www.michelewickham.com/gw/moddock.jpg


Compared to Just outside of Leviathon pits...one of them there clothy Luxon structures.

http://www.michelewickham.com/gw/leviath.jpg

Quintus Antonius
21-02-2007, 06:30
Yup, I checked my sources, the Factions Lore Guide does indeed say the Luxons made it to the Crystal Desert.

Note: A reference in the Strategy Guide for Guild Wars Factions mentions that there is evidence that the Luxons of Cantha made it to the Crystal Desert. Since the Luxons were seafaring people as were the Margonites, it may be possible that the Margonites and Luxons are the same people or share a common ancestry. The only in-game evidence is a pile of Bleached Bones in The Arid Sea with a journal entry comparing what is presumedly a Sand Wurm to a Kraken. (GuildWiki, Prima)