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Cérilia
06-03-2007, 13:04
This guide was written by Ragnarok- (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442369), I took the liberty to add comments made by other users (priam, Shrakzara, Akirai Annuvil, Grend Arnath and myself).

Given the nature of Guild Wars (with regular changes in skills) this guide will evolve as new things are added. So feel free to comment!



Monk/Mesmer
Mesmers have always been a viable choice as a monk secondary. Since GW:Prophecies, monks have been using this secondary for energy management for more energy intensive builds. It began with the classic Channeling setup, which allowed 1e per enemy within range. While that was quite useful, it also brought the monk into the front line. Mesmer secondaries, however, can also provide handy interrupts that can double as energy management. Hex Breaker has also given monks additional protection against much of the meta's Diversion pressure and BoA assassins.
Mantras give monk more resistance to certain types of damage (elemental, physical, cold, etc.) and mantra of inscription is a nice addition for bonders (with the use of blessed signet), also can be free to cast spells without fear of interrupts (but may lose energy if the monk would have been interrupted).

Pros: active energy management: Mantra of Recall (which, sadly, has deteriorated with time), Channeling; interrupts that double as energy management; Hex Breaker which can make an assassin useless for another 20s, or make a mesmer waste their energy on a failed Shame/Diversion. Use of mantras for self protection or signets recharge.
Cons: better forms of active energy management; missing an interrupt for energy is costly; no true means of self defense, speed boosts, or any sort of faster kiting.


Monk/Assassin
Prior to Factions release there was a joke going around about teleporting monks. Well, the joke became serious when monks began to use Return and Dark Escape to avoid heavy spikes. The assassin secondary gives monks a quick escape route as well as a means of halving damage to avoid heavy spikes on themselves with a low point investment. As Deadly Paradox was introduced, many monks began to use Deadly Paradox to keep Dark Escape up as long as they could. Unfortunately for many, the Deadly Paradox "bug" was "fixed." Monks now look at the secondary for a few skills in particular: Return, Dark Escape, and the new Shroud of Distress. Shroud of Distress is a lovely tool now which allows great synergy with elite skills like Zealous Benediction.

Pros: Amazing self protection, something that all monks should have as part of their builds; Quick escape skills paired with faster kiting makes the class a great secondary for a monk.
Cons: No form of energy management causing one to be very frugal with their energy (which, all in all, is not a bad thing); prone to be more susceptible to energy denial and hex pressure.


Monk/Elementalist
The elementalist secondary is quite common nowadays. In the current meta it's being used for quite a number of things. The simplest is Glyph of Lesser Energy, probably the best non-elite form of energy management currently in the game. At a cost of 5e you can let your next two spells go for 15 less energy. In my experience, any monk with spells (unless the build isn't for healing) that cost more than 15e are more of a hindrance to their team than a help. Thus, at 15 less energy, you get two spells on your bar off--for free. This works wonderfully in conjunction with monks who use Aegis chains. Another great form of gaining energy is by using Zealous Benediction on a target that is below 50%. The cost of ZB will be negated through the glyph, and you will still gain +10e. It's fairly great. Other uses of the elementalist secondary have been to increase your own speed, decrease others' speed, and provide some melee hate.
Another useful feature: Glyph of Concentration ignores the effect of Daze - so you don't cast slowly and are not easily interrupted - so you can remove that condition from yourself without worrying that your spell will be interrupted. Also, the ability to cast quickly 1 spell (with a very long recharge time added).

Pros: Probably gives the best non-elite form of energy management at the moment. Can give speed boosts, snares, and provide melee-hate.
Cons: Little self defense, only specialized builds contain speed boosts.


Monk/Warrior
Wamos have always been a running joke in the Guild Wars community, but with that connotation the reverse also holds true. Mo/W's are hard pressed in groups, being most often known for their 55 farm-build. Naturally, though, the Warrior secondary gives plenty of useful additions to a Monk's arsenal. Some of the most common uses of the warrior secondary come from the Tactics line. The line provides many things that can block, avoid knockdown, give defensive melee hate, and many more things. Many viable uses of the warrior secondary include using Balanced Stance (to prevent knockdowns), Shield Bash, Sprint, Disciplined Stance, Shield Stance, and more recently Frenzied Defense (coupled with Protective Spirit).

Pros: It can provide self defense, melee-hate, a speed boost, and anti-knockdown. It provides the use of Stances which are hard to remove and instantaneous to activate. Frenzied defense combined with Protective Spirit, effectively does the same as the assassin secondary, except faster recharge.
Cons: To get the best use of this secondary, you have to give up many other things on your monk: most of the builds using the warrior secondary require a heavy distribution of attributes into tactics (usually ~9 to give the user the requirements to carry a shield). Having to select a balance of skills is a toughy. Monks have no speed increases which boost the incentive for Sprint, however, that would take the place of a useful slot that could be used for Balanced Stance. Warrior secondaries cause you to choose a balance of skills more carefully.


Monk/Dervish
I have come to like the Dervish secondary more and more. It gives me everything I need. Nonstop speed boost for only one skill slot... an anti-knockdown... Personally, it's great for casual play, but in high competitive play, I'd choose a different secondary. Casually it's fun to use this, since it doesn't matter what you do. It's a new class, and thus the skills are quite a bit more limited, but nonetheless it gives many of the things that some people look for in casual play; speed boosts, anti-KD. Many of these additions, through the use of Earth Prayers, self healing becomes fairly reliable, but again requires a descent amount of attribute contribution.
Enchantment based skills such as Mystic Regeneration (for enchantment heavy builds). Skills such as Signet of Pious Light and Vital Boon, as well as Fleeting Stability can assist with self survivability. The Wind attribute line also provides some good skills that provide in increase speed movement to provide better kiting ability.

Pros: Many enchantments that can prove useful given a situation, good self heals, infinite speed boost, earth magic gives great survivability, allows you to avoid knockdown.
Cons: No energy maintainability. Many enchants are quite situational, many are useless and enchantments in general are prone to removal. Mysticism holds some of the most useful spells/skills, however our limited access does not grant us the use of said skills. Speed boosts come with another condition (remove enchants, for instance); Fleeting Stability is expensive.


Monk/Necromancer
The necromancer secondary, back in the day, was all that monks used. Offering of Blood was enormously amazing at combating the high energy use of a boonprot setup (nowadays it has been nerfed to have a 20% sacrifice instead of the original 10% and is often too risky to use in PvP... though it could still be used in PvE). However, as nerfs progressed to degrade the usefulness, monks began to turn to mesmer secondary. Necromancers do not offer much anymore for a monk secondary, having no speed boosts, true means of self protection, stances to enable survivability, or viable energy management anymore. In PvE, however, one might bring Taste of Death for a quick self-heal if there is a minion master in the group (which most PvE groups have).
In PvE, Mo/N with spiteful Spirit and Spoil Victor can be used in some solo farming builds.

Pros: Wells can prove useful, however the high cast time is risky; Corpse stealing is useful in a quick teleport, however it's better left to a midline character.
In PvE, allows the usage of Minions, Spiteful Spirit and Spoil Victor (to help solo-farming) and OoB for good e-management (though at the cost of an elite skill slot).
Cons: No self defense, no quick escape, no speed boost, no viable energy management in PvP, no real way of doing much using the secondary.


Monk/Ranger
Rangers have never truly given Monks a great balance in skills and this secondary was never very prevalent in PvE or PvP. In general, the entire Marksmanship and Expertise lines are off limits to healing monks, which leaves Beast Mastery and Wilderness Survival. Beast when the pet dies all your skills get disabled for a short period of time which can have dire consequences for the team. Mastery requires at least two slots on your skill bar. And that's just to have a pet and be able to res it. Besides The skills in there don't truly have a function on helping you, but rather your pet. There are, however, skills like Rampage as One that allow a speed boost, but at a cost of your elite and a whopping 25 energy. Pets are handy for a smiter however, especially with 'Zealot's Fire' for when you heal/buff your pet or yourself you can damage nearby enemies.
Monks, not having expertise, cannot squander their energy like that. The Wilderness Survival line can still be of use, however, at the cost of quite an investment to make it worthwhile. Investing too many points into a secondary will reduce the effectiveness of actually being able to heal. From my general experience, the ranger secondary provides two skills actually worth looking at: Storm Chaser and Natural Stride. Other than that I find it not quite so good. Serpent's is great, but the downtime is too bad to realistically use.

Pros: Natural Stride and Storm Chaser provide a speed boost, which is always good, but the downtime on both of them make it negligible. Natural Stride, however, blocks attacks which can be both good and bad. Storm Chaser gives a limited means of energy management. Not too many pros, to be honest.
Cons: No really viable self defense, only one line that's truly open to a monk. Beast Mastery takes too much of your bar to make it effective as a secondary, and when pets die your skills are disabled. That makes it quite a strain. Any defensive stances take way too long to recharge, making it quite worthless in the long run. Self defense is great only if you can use it when you need, whenever you need it--not "use it once, then wait 60s before you can benefit from it again."
Melhandru's Resilience, while amazing even at 0 points as a self heal and energy gain, is an elite.


Monk/Ritualist
Ritualist is a secondary I haven't much experience with, however in my toying around with it, I've found quite a few uses that can actually be very worthwhile. Weapon spells cannot be stripped; unlike enchants, if you use a weapon spell on somebody, it'll last it's full intended duration. Items are amazing for hiding energy, and when you need energy on demand, drop the item and gain an extra effect. However, I find to use this secondary to its peak ability, you have to invest too much into the line, and at that point a primary Ritualist would serve much better than just using a secondary to do so.

Pros: Unstrippable life/time heals, good for hiding energy, good for team damage mitigation.
Cons: Well, to be honest, it provides little self defense (while Nightmare Weapon is not bad, it takes too much of an investment to make worthwhile), contains no speed boost, and no active energy management.


Monk/Paragon
Paragons are a secondary I've yet to use on my monk., and while I'm not too familiar with the skills, two branches seem closed to be on this class as well. Leadership, and Spear Mastery. Motivation and Command offer party-wide benefits, but some of them are at a heavy cost or heavy cast time. Many require adrenaline, or a long activation time. While Shouts, chants, etc. prove a good source of damage mitigation, it's easier to do it with actual monk skills. One great skill, though, is Leader's Zeal. A monk should usually have party members around him/her, so this skill can give you quite a nice source of energy management at even 2 points invested. Aria of Zeal is also nice, but the cost time makes it risky in use.

Pros: Party-wide benefits, speed boosts, decent self protection, a great source of energy management.
Cons: Most skills which provide party-wide benefits are better used by a midline. The time it takes to use, and the conditions needed to fulfill shouldn't be a monk's concern. Heavy investment is needed to make most of the pressure-relieving skills useful. Most of the party-wide heals cannot compare with Light of Deliverance, or a Glyph'd Heal Party (or two).

the forests wisper
06-03-2007, 14:20
very nice guide, i feel u hit pretty much every point for the experianced monks out there. just remmber infuse health then healing touch is your god and your all gd to go.

Avanti
06-03-2007, 14:36
Thank you Cérilia, you've done a big favor for all Monk forum users. :smiley: I didn't think that you would take all my suggestions to the word for this guide.

Once again, props for you and Ragnarok.

maddogfargo
06-03-2007, 17:01
Monk\Ele is becoming one of my favorite combinations for the energy management, and self defense capabilities. (* Sorry, but I don't agree that lack of self-defense is a real con) :huh:

Ele skills like Armor of Earth, Lava Font, Eruption, and several wards give the Monk-Ele several good options for self-preservation and making enemies VERY sorry for aggroing on the monk...especially if used in conjunction with skills like Shield of Judgement and Symbol of Wrath.

I love going Smite-Nuke, since I don't need the extra points in Divine Favor. :grin:

And what do you mean only specialized builds give speed boosts? I've been SB-running people from Ascalon to Sanctum-Cay (Yaks-to-Ice Tooth being the only bothersome leg) and then all over the desert with just one ele skill...Windbourne Speed. With Kepkhets it lasts 12-13 seconds or so. Overall, the 33% speed boost makes you just as fast as a non-stop 25% stance-based runner, even with the brief 1 sec stops to re-cast periodically. :cool:

Ragnarok-
06-03-2007, 22:18
Monk\Ele is becoming one of my favorite combinations for the energy management, and self defense capabilities. (* Sorry, but I don't agree that lack of self-defense is a real con) :huh:

Ele skills like Armor of Earth, Lava Font, Eruption, and several wards give the Monk-Ele several good options for self-preservation and making enemies VERY sorry for aggroing on the monk...especially if used in conjunction with skills like Shield of Judgement and Symbol of Wrath.

I love going Smite-Nuke, since I don't need the extra points in Divine Favor. :grin:

And what do you mean only specialized builds give speed boosts? I've been SB-running people from Ascalon to Sanctum-Cay (Yaks-to-Ice Tooth being the only bothersome leg) and then all over the desert with just one ele skill...Windbourne Speed. With Kepkhets it lasts 12-13 seconds or so. Overall, the 33% speed boost makes you just as fast as a non-stop 25% stance-based runner, even with the brief 1 sec stops to re-cast periodically. :cool:

When I wrote lack of self defense I meant you would have to sacrifice too much to work those skills (viably) into your build. I basically wrote this guide for healing/prot monks, not smiting. Smiting you can run any secondary, it doesn't matter much. I would prefer /Me just for MoI, but that's a personal preference from a signet-smiter.

Back on topic, though, is that using Armor of Earth slows you down quite a bit, which leaves you more open to spikes. And I mean armor ignoring spikes, basically the only type which works anymore (BoA sins will tear you apart even easier, Discord necros no longer have to hex you to start their Discord spam, and other such skills will tear through it). Kinetic Armor is a good alternative, and the upkeep is easily satisfied with RoF, but requires a hefty investment for it to be as useful as possible. Also a strip would leave you gimped for quite a long time (the same holds true, however, for Shroud). At any rate, The most I would ever use on my monk from a secondary is up to two skills. As an elementalist secondary I would use GoLE and Grasping Earth.

Onto the speedboosts, well, a SB runner is a specialized build. It's used for one thing, and one thing only: running. Mo/E running involves several things, many including self-preservation skills, thus not allotting space for team/party heals, which is why I say that only specialized builds contain boosts. It's like a comparison between the Mo/A and Mo/E; Most Mo/A will carry Dark Escape which doubles as a speedboost. Mo/E that have run skills focus their bar around that skill or they might as well spend their time just running without boosts.

Drec Sutal
07-03-2007, 17:56
I've been running Mo/W and Mo/E almost exclusively in GvG recently. I still see Mo/A, since their utility hasn't really gone down, but with the amount of KD going around and the tendency to have spikes like discord or multi-BoA the damage is usually more then double what would kill you... I find that I rarely have time to return before I die and that dark escape rarely results in me surviving when I would have died. I still think Mo/A has the potential to be useful but the current meta counters it rather well.

Mo/W on the other hand counters KD, and usually sins. An aegis chain with Mo/E also helps quite a bit. Unfortunately both shield bash and aegis are worthless if the sin has exposed defenses.... but you can't have everything.

I've always preferred Mo/W on our infuser, as a common tactic is to KD one monk and spike the other, and having the infuser not KD'd during a spike is crucial. The secondary on the other monk usually depends on the build and such.

As for skills other then GoLE.... the only one I've brought (other then storm djinn's haste for running builds) is Grasping Earth. 8 second 5 energy AoE slowdown at 0 earth magic? It can be nice in some situations, but in general I didn't really like it. None of the others are really viable for PvP play.

NeonKnights
07-03-2007, 19:16
Very informative indeed. I haven't played a Monk in a long, long time. I'm a constant re-roller and never really got into playing a monk, but I'd like to get back to it sometime.

Is smiting viable these days? I know quite a few Smiting Prayers skills got nerfed a while back. I always had more an attraction to Smiting than healing mostly because I like to play things out of the box.

Ragnarok-
07-03-2007, 22:26
Very informative indeed. I haven't played a Monk in a long, long time. I'm a constant re-roller and never really got into playing a monk, but I'd like to get back to it sometime.

Is smiting viable these days? I know quite a few Smiting Prayers skills got nerfed a while back. I always had more an attraction to Smiting than healing mostly because I like to play things out of the box.

It's viable, but the DPS is severely gimped unless you plan on fighting mostly undead baddies.

Age
08-03-2007, 01:45
Very nice but in the Mo/W write up you forgot to mention Bonetti's Defence and it does provide energy and defense.I only have about 4 to 6 in tactics and use Geofor's Bulwark Shield.

Ragnarok-
08-03-2007, 01:55
Very nice but in the Mo/W write up you forgot to mention Bonetti's Defence and it does provide energy and defense.I only have about 4 to 6 in tactics and use Geofor's Bulwark Shield.

The problem I have with Bonetti's is that you either need to A) Get hit a lot, or B) hit people. Neither of those options sound appealing to me as if I'm on a monk, I wouldn't ever have the time to hit people as any time I'm not casting, I'm kiting. Kiting prevents getting hit, so it would get minimal use. If anything, I'd go with Frenzied Defense+PS, it's guaranteed, but the con is there's no energy return. Personally I prefer to use +defense vs Slashing shields, but I have a piercing on switch for rspike/boa sins (most of them, at least). At any rate, while BD is usable, it doesn't have a place on my bar.

maddogfargo
08-03-2007, 17:07
Well, basically any running build is specialized.

BUT...you've sparked an idea...

You might improve this guide by listing the pros & cons to how a Monk/Whatever achieves things like speed boosts, self defense, energy management, etc. Instead of saying 'it doesnt have it' or 'it's not any good', how about creating a list of skills that the build CAN do for speed, defense, energy or whatever...and then list the disadvantages/advantages for that approach.

Maybe like a table?

Example:

Monk/Ele
Speed Boost:
Ele Skill1 - Windbourne Speed
Pro: 33% increase, low energy cost, short cast & recharge times, perpetual speed boost on re-cast with enough Air Magic
Con: Interruptable & removeable enchantment, no AL, energy or dodge bonuses given with this shkill - speed only.

Cérilia
09-03-2007, 13:09
@maddogfargo: yes this could be an helpful thing to do. But it seems to me that this guide should remain as general as possible, to let new monk have a quick and accurate enough view on what secondary prof can do.

So, what I propose is to create a different guide, containing specific skill informations.

maddogfargo
13-03-2007, 18:08
Well...yeah I guess you're right. Keeping it general will be good for newbie monks to learn.

But, can I at least get a star by my name for coming up with a cool idea for advanced guides? If I get 5 by the end of the week I get a cookie! :grin:

Pendulous Assassin
13-03-2007, 22:47
Thnx for all the insight, but im extremely new to the monk class and i dont know what i should chose as my second profession. i kinda need the help soon cuz its almost time for me to choose it so thnx in advance :grin: :afro:

Lhasa Apso
17-06-2007, 21:04
there isnt really a wrong choice for any chars secondary class, its about how you want to play or where you are weak and need strengthening.

i like necro for nice degens and the fun stuff from blood / curses
ranger for the speed buffs and traps
warrior for bonetti's def , shields up etc
***. for the great spells to give you amazing defence
rit for the weapon spells - its a great way to beef up healing

id suggest that anyone unsure tries a few different choices, but looks for what fits their style not whats flavour of the month !

Ragnarok-
30-06-2007, 20:24
As the updates have rolled in, there have been many changes to skills in the usefulness (or lack thereof) of many secondaries:

Mesmer secondaries now have access to the wonderful skill Auspicious Incantation. Allowing a free cast (with energy returned) of any costly skill for the downside of a slightly higher recharge, it proves to be extremely viable on previously unused skills like Shield of Regeneration (which also got a very nice buff recently).

Elementalist secondaries with access to GoLE are now somewhat gimped, with GoLE only returning 10e/spell. While less energy is returned, it is still a very viable and useful option.

Ranger secondaries now have access to the great and now brilliantly useful stance Melandru's Resilience. At the cost of your elite slot, it pairs brilliantly with Draw Conditions to give a phenomenal health and energy regen-supposing there are conditions.

With the new PvE skills as well, monks are given a plethora of new angles to approach monking from. Seed of Life, the monk SS skill, is phenomenal.

A Mo/N with a decently coordinated team (someone calling their use of SF, for instance) can use Signet of Corruption to get a nice energy gain for the cost of nothing.

/Rt can become offensive without attribute investments by using Vampirism and thus healing themselves in the process.

While there are more angles that I haven't grazed, these are the few that I have seen changed from the previous lists.

Reanimator
04-08-2007, 17:14
Ive just started a new monk too, i usually use my nec/ele or war/mo so im wondering what would be good for self defence and low investment (rit looks good through weapon buff, etc.)

Im more interested in using my monk as a healer than a smiting machine (but i still need to pve quickly), so any suggestions woudl be appreciated :)