Onis

[Karn the Betrayer]

since they are demonic and controled by Kanaxai, they appear from thin air would it make sense that they could appear literally anywhere in the GW world? supposing all demons orginate from the RoT a rift would probably help them appear in Elona or Tyria if they wanted to... just imagine 12 onis attacking Kodash Bazaar XD

off topic a story i am writing allows monsters in all three games not to be restrained to thier areas. Tyrian monsters in the shiverpeaks all over the drned place, Onis atacking people outside Maatu keep, Shadow army attacks in the forum highlands etc (idea copyright pending XD :grin: ) :cloud9:

[sequel]

Beeing under control of kanaxai it's only logical that they appear in a radius surrounding him, may it englobe entire cantha but a limited area nonetheless. Think this could also be applied to margonites and varesh. It's always a domain of influence thing.

[Karn the Betrayer]

that dosn't explain the reason why the Margonites were doing in Tyria outside LA.. giving this its possible that Oni's could appear in Elona cause demons being demons break all the rules.. and logic lol

[Lady Rhonwyn]

that dosn't explain the reason why the Margonites were doing in Tyria outside LA.. giving this its possible that Oni's could appear in Elona cause demons being demons break all the rules.. and logic lol

They don't appear there anymore.

Now, both Olias and Zenmai quests contain Torment creatures.

[Karn the Betrayer]

They don't appear there anymore.

Now, both Olias and Zenmai quests contain Torment creatures.

oh gawd well at least i did them both before the update hahahahahahahahaha!

[Karuro]

First I was thinking the further away from Kanaxai they spawn, the weaker they are. (as the weakest kind are in Shing Jea, pretty far from The Deep)
However, this theory got slaughterd when I found out the Oni in The Deep are lvl 24, while their Jade Sea/Echovald brethern are 28 x.x

[Arkhan The Black]

I always assumed that Oni's where once people that was driven insane but Kanxais influence and then warped to demons. Maybe demons thrive on conflict and suffering and therefor they are more powerful in the Jade Sea/Echovald Forest war zone.

[Kailden Jera]

I always assumed that Oni's where once people that was driven insane but Kanxais influence and then warped to demons. Maybe demons thrive on conflict and suffering and therefor they are more powerful in the Jade Sea/Echovald Forest war zone.

Good point.

[Karn the Betrayer]

I always assumed that Oni's where once people that was driven insane but Kanxais influence and then warped to demons. Maybe demons thrive on conflict and suffering and therefor they are more powerful in the Jade Sea/Echovald Forest war zone.


guild wiki said they were luxons gone mad from mining jade too deeply

[Minionman]

Never Mind.

[Karuro]

guild wiki said they were luxons gone mad from mining jade too deeply
That are the Outcasts, not the Oni. Though it's possible the Oni is like a "2nd form".

[Quintus Antonius]

No, no, no, the Oni are manifestations of Kanaxai's dreams. Kanaxai is based on C'thulhu, and the Oni are based on the Deep Ones (aka Dagon). They even look exactly the same. The Dagon are even manifestations of C'thulhu's dreams, just like the Oni.

[aptaleonII]

People seem to be going on this:

"Oni are curious creatures. We of the Turtle Clan believe they were once human but have become twisted by terrible nightmares from the deep within the Jade Sea. They are similar to the Luxons known as Outcasts, driven to the edge of insanity and irrationally violent. Oni may hold the key to discovering the true nature of the Outcasts."
Remember: this could be just the belief of the clan, and not true.

Nevertheless, could someone please point me in the direction of ANYTHING that says the Oni are manifestations of Kanaxai's dreams? If there is nothing, then this collector holds the only piece of evidence at all regarding the Oni's origins, and it contradicts the "kanaxai's dreams" thing.

[Arkhan The Black]

Thanks for clearing that up for us Quintus. I need to read some of Mr Lovecraft work some day.

[Zaxares]

People seem to be going on this:

Remember: this could be just the belief of the clan, and not true.

Nevertheless, could someone please point me in the direction of ANYTHING that says the Oni are manifestations of Kanaxai's dreams? If there is nothing, then this collector holds the only piece of evidence at all regarding the Oni's origins, and it contradicts the "kanaxai's dreams" thing.

Talk to Eurayle, the NPC that guards the entrance to the Deep. He explains the link between the Oni and Kanaxai. The following is what he says:

"Years ago, when the Jade Wind froze the sea, a demon of nightmares was trapped below the sea's hardened waters. A group of Luxons unearthed the demon's resting place while mining the sea for jade and other resources. The demon's nightmares slowly seeped into their minds, until they eventually went insane. The tale of these outcasts is a sad one, but if you come across any, do not show them pity. They are beyond rehabilitation and will not hesitate to kill you.

The demon that caused the corruption of these outcasts is known by the name Kanaxai, bringer of despair. He is also the source of the Oni that appear all over Cantha as waking nightmares. If you wish to prove your loyalty to the Luxons, head into the caves known as the Deep that lead toward the ancient mine, and destroy the outcasts and the demon Kanaxai."

---

Now, to be fair, it may be that the term 'waking nightmares' is simply a turn of phrase and not literal meaning. The dialogue doesn't explicitly say how the Oni are created; they could be spawn of Kanaxai, Outcasts who have been undergone extreme exposure to Kanaxai, or some other explanation altogether.

[aptaleonII]

Aha, thank you, that cleared it up more for me. I agree, it's not clear on how they are created though; the word order suggests it is simply a turn of phrase and not literal meaning.

[Quintus Antonius]

I'm not so sure. Look at the paragraph above it. Everything Kanaxai manifests are a result of his dreams (nightmares). Why would we then assume that in the second paragraph, nightmare is figurative?

[themagicmoedee]

I'm not so sure. Look at the paragraph above it. Everything Kanaxai manifests are a result of his dreams (nightmares). Why would we then assume that in the second paragraph, nightmare is figurative?

We wouldn't. But not assuming that they are not walking dream objects is not the same as concluding (or, as it would be in this case, assuming) that they are. There's a lot of things that "nightmare" can mean. I remember when he was a big horse that stomped all over people if things turned out just right in Magic.

Besides - wouldn't a demon's worst nightmare be Snuggleluffagrams the Huggy Bear? Or at least be something serious enough to severely maul and deform anybody that happened to interact with it?

[Gmr Leon]

What may be a nightmare to us can be a wonderful dream for him.

[Quintus Antonius]

Remember also, Nightfall is the "dreamworld" of Abaddon pushing through into the "real" world. So, it is actually established that the dreams of powerful creatures can create things.

[Shuuda]

I always felt that Oni were demons,(Oni is Jap of Demon right?). And maybe Kanaxai is spawned in the RoT (Like most if not all Demons) and kanaxai creates Oni. One question, does Kanaxai work for Abbadon, for is he a lone wolf bad dude?

[aptaleonII]

I believe he's a lone wolf bad dude, there's nothing to suggest he's working for abaddon. Many other demons in the RoT are unalligned anyway.

[Quintus Antonius]

Yeah, I agree. If he were working for Abaddon, I think it is likely Shiro might have tried to team up with him. They had the same boss if that's the case. Like aptaleonII, I think Kanaxai was just a bad dude caught in the bad juju of another bad dude.

[Karn the Betrayer]

has anyone noticed that the oni's face kinda looks like a marg mask sorta

[Karn the Betrayer]

Beeing under control of kanaxai it's only logical that they appear in a radius surrounding him, may it englobe entire cantha but a limited area nonetheless. Think this could also be applied to margonites and varesh. It's always a domain of influence thing.

but remember the torment is a diamention and chaos portals can open anywhere like in cantha, elona and tyria. Am i mistaken but are there any onis trapped in the torment?

persoanlly i think Margonites are tied to the RoT

off topic: since we saw Margs chasing Olais before his mish change (in his update did demons still chase him, note that I already gained olais before the update). I'm using this theroy that demons (in my GW story) appear literally anywhere

Back on topic: Are they using Kanaxai's power to 'houdini' (appear) out of thin air?

I always felt that Oni were demons,(Oni is Jap of Demon right?).

well according to the wiki (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Demon) they are

[Konig Des Todes]

Epic thread rez for a known answer

has anyone noticed that the oni's face kinda looks like a marg mask sorta4 eyes on oni... 6 on margs... Nope, no resemblance.

but remember the torment is a diamention and chaos portals can open anywhere like in cantha, elona and tyria. Am i mistaken but are there any onis trapped in the torment?

persoanlly i think Margonites are tied to the RoT

off topic: since we saw Margs chasing Olais before his mish change (in his update did demons still chase him, note that I already gained olais before the update). I'm using this theroy that demons (in my GW story) appear literally anywhere

Back on topic: Are they using Kanaxai's power to 'houdini' (appear) out of thin air?1)No, no oni (btw, oni plural is oni - like many things in japanese) in the Realm of Torment.

2) Margonites are tied to the Realm of Torment. In that their god, Abaddon, is trapped their - along with the original Margonites.

3) Demons from the Realm of Torment are able to appear anywhere due to the Shadow Nexus (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_Nexus).

4) I believe that "appearing from thin air" is an aspect of their Assassin nature. To blend in with the shadows.

well according to the wiki (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Demon) they areThat is game mechanics. Oni are more along the lines of "transformed humans" - but Margonites are also considered demons, no? - anyways, there is only one possible connection to Abaddon that the Oni hold.

Kanaxai was corrupted by the Jade Wind 200 years ago like Urgoz was, and through that corruption, was tainted by Abaddon.


Out of boredom, read through your thread:
since they are demonic and controled by Kanaxai, they appear from thin air would it make sense that they could appear literally anywhere in the GW world? supposing all demons orginate from the RoT a rift would probably help them appear in Elona or Tyria if they wanted to... just imagine 12 onis attacking Kodash Bazaar XD1) Again, I believe that "appearing from thin air" is an aspect of their Assassin nature. To blend in with the shadows.

2) No demon originates from the Realm of Torment alone. True demons - i.e., creatures who were demons from birth - are non-sentient beings created by the Mists. Meaning they can be created anywhere. Razah's description states this.

that dosn't explain the reason why the Margonites were doing in Tyria outside LA.. giving this its possible that Oni's could appear in Elona cause demons being demons break all the rules.. and logic lol

3) Again, demons from the Realm of Torment are able to appear anywhere due to the Shadow Nexus (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_Nexus). Oni are tied directly to Kanaxai and due to being originated in Tyria, cannot use the Shadow Nexus.

guild wiki said they were luxons gone mad from mining jade too deeplyYes and no. They are Luxons gone mad - or at least that is the only thing that is given about their origins, aside from some connection to Kanaxai - but it's not from mining jade too deeply, it is from the close proximity to Kanaxai.

In other words, Kanaxai is torment and madness in Tyria.

No, no, no, the Oni are manifestations of Kanaxai's dreams. Kanaxai is based on C'thulhu, and the Oni are based on the Deep Ones (aka Dagon). They even look exactly the same. The Dagon are even manifestations of C'thulhu's dreams, just like the Oni.Highly possible, but their origin in looks might not exactly be the same origin as their background. I.e., they may look like Dagons, but they might not be based on the same thing, therefore not a manifestation of Kanaxai's dreams.

I do, however, need to read some Lovecraft (and other C'thulhu Mythos books).

[Karn the Betrayer]

ty for informing that demons use the Shadow Nexus, I was about to epically fail in mentioning in my fic that they used depths of madness. Am i right to say that demons defeated in the mortal world are sent to the torment?

oh yeah lol @ my epic thread necroing XD

another thing has the wiki crashed or something i cannot access it? the official one that is

[Konig Des Todes]

1) Yes and no. It's hard to tell if demons have souls, however, Margonites do. And as such, those defeated in Tyria will show up in the Realm of Torment.

How I think the Margonites work is, the Margonites we see in Tyria are *mostly* former Kournans who are transformed via "blessing" of Abaddon. As such, when we kill them, they go to the Realm of Torment, and we basically fight them again. However, as we kill them in the Realm of Torment, they go back to the Mists, therefore basically ceasing to exist.

The Margonites in the Domain of Anguish - along with the possibility of the bosses throughout Tyria/rest of the Realm of Torment - are the "original" Margonites that fought against the gods 1,075 years ago.

2) It seems like it just crashed. It was working when I posted.

[Karn the Betrayer]

as i see it when varesh first summond them did they come out of the torment? or where they just hidden

[Konig Des Todes]

...

There's a HUGE freakin portal right there.

Need I say more?

[Karn the Betrayer]

the portal (vortex) only opened after varesh's death, i don't remember a portal opening when Varesh introduced Morghan to the Margs

[Konig Des Todes]

The three Margonite Clerics where there from the beginning. They traveled with her to the spot.

She died then the Torment Demons and herself came back via the Vortex.

As for the Margonites showing up at the end of the cinematic of Moddok Crevice. This is why I believe that the Kournans become Margonites. They are "losing" men, and those men come back as Margonites - i.e., no portal needed. And teleportation does exist without needing a portal when no traveling through the Mists and Rift is needed.

If you need an example, think of it as the Margonites map traveled. Although, more accurately, they were summoned by Varesh - a summoned map travel you can call it I suppose.

In other words, those Margonites didn't come from the Realm of Torment at that point in time - if at all.

[Karn the Betrayer]

could be the portals dont nessicarily need to be visable for them to appear

[Konig Des Todes]

Inter-realm portals are always visible. The non-personal internal-realm portals are always visible. Personal portals - i.e., the equivalent of map travel - is seemingly not visible.

[Karn the Betrayer]

so I'm taking that all those margs used their own 'teleport'

[Gmr Leon]

In a sense, yes.

[Karn the Betrayer]

off topic: did the forums crash earlier? it took ages to load

on topic: on ething straight Onis are true demons or converted souls?

[Konig Des Todes]

Uhhh, what?

"On ething straight Onis are true demons or converted souls?"

I don't get what you mean, do you mean "Are Onis true demons (meaning created via the Mists like Torment Demons) or corrupted beings (like Titans, Margonites, etc.)?"

If so, they are (seemingly) corrupted Luxons who first went mad by Kanaxai and later became Oni. The "became Oni" part is not confirmed but highly likely. Also note: Not all Luxon Outcasts are mad it seems (via the quest to get to Gayla Hatchery - where outcasts are making a deal with a Kurzick).

[Karn the Betrayer]

i typoed and forgot to correct it. It was supposed to be 'one thing' i type too fast and make typos

some reason i cant acess the wiki but i reckon Kanaxai is a nightmare horde minion cause part of him is shadowy

[Gmr Leon]

Kanaxai is, to put it simply, a demon. He is not connected to any of the known dark deities, Dhuum or Abaddon, or evil lords, such as Menzies.

[Arkhan The Black]

Well he does have some common ground with Abaddon considering they use dreams as a medium to affect the mortal plane, but that is about it.