The Jade Sea's real name?

[gervasium]

Obviously, before the Jade wind, the Jade Sea wasn't really called that way( I suppose). As I'm doing a comic on the fanart and movie forum, I would like to ask,is there any in-game reference to the name of the jade sea?
I want my comics to be lore accurate and I intent to make no mistakes related to the history of guild wars. Could you help me??

[Quintus Antonius]

It was always called the Jade Sea, according to the Lore Guide to Factions in the Official Prima Guide. It even mentions the particular irony that it was turned to jade.

[gervasium]

Well, then thank you! I'm surprised the answer came so fast! :)

[aptaleonII]

If i remember right, it says something along the lines of "the now literally named Jade Sea", so it was always called that. Convenient :P

[Quintus Antonius]

Well, in Chinese culture jade is the substance of the gods, so I'm not surprised they had a body of water named after jade, nor am I surprised that the power of the gods which Shiro unleashed turned it to literal jade.

[gervasium]

Also, what was the porpose of shiro's guild? A group of elite bodyguards? A conspiracy to kill the emperor? I have doubts on it beeing a conspiracy because as I remember, he only decided to kill the emperor when he was at the Harvest Temple.

On a side note: you guys at the lore should be checking the comics to make sure i don't commit any attrocity like saying that shiro was ruric's ally or something like that! :wink:

[Nanashi]

It was but a faction amongst the Imperial forces. A faction that dealt with Am Feh, bandit raids. According to what I've read in the past, he protected the Merchants from enemies to support trade in and around Kaineng. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[Scott the Green]

Also, what was the porpose of shiro's guild? A group of elite bodyguards? A conspiracy to kill the emperor? I have doubts on it beeing a conspiracy because as I remember, he only decided to kill the emperor when he was at the Harvest Temple.

On a side note: you guys at the lore should be checking the comics to make sure i don't commit any attrocity like saying that shiro was ruric's ally or something like that! :wink:

I have to admit, that was probably the most original way to secure readership for a comic that I've ever seen. Even better than the old standby "help me improve my art" type that I see on Keenspot from time to time.

I'd say that Shiro's guild was a guild of imperial bodyguards, just because that makes sense. It could also be a guild of assassin bodyguards (or just assassins in general), as assassin guilds seem to be all the rage in Cantha (the Obsidian Flame, Shadow Blades, and Guild of 1000 Daggers come to mind). Shiro wields daggers every time we see him, so I've jumped to a conclusion that he was an assassin.

[aptaleonII]

It's stated that Shiro was an assassin, was it not? You know, along with.. in addition to the whole dagger thing...?

[Nanashi]

I don't recall Shiro being confirmed as an assassin other than it being bluntly obvious. It was only suggested but never stated. And the only thing that makes it obvious was his use of assassin skills and the blades we get our hands on later. But besides all of that, his profession was not confirmed. He was just a guard that governed the streets of Bukdek Byway and probably secured the Market Place.

[Quintus Antonius]

Exactly, and there is a warrior weapon with the skin of Shiro's blades, so it isn't exactly conclusive.

aptaleon, aren't you supposed to be the crusader of the purity of unconfirmed knowledge? =P

[Nanashi]

There's no doubt he is an assassin but only to fit the mechanics of the game and like Quint said Warriors can attain the single blade version... not to mention Shiro's Blades are bigger than most daggers. It was more like a elite prize for beating the game, the one set of daggers I had no objection to getting when I first beat the campaign.

That being said, lore wise it was never stated and I also question Sins in Kainang. The only reason why we were there was because of the plague no? Thus that was Panaku's only reason for being there. Otherwise Nika was the only assassin located in the Mainland of the Imperial territory... and that was only because she had some relation to royalty. So it makes me question, where sins an actual profession within this area or merely an outside one that only arrived for certain "duties".

My point is, I don't think there was any influence. Which would mean that, "lore wise" Shiro was but an Imperial guard who liked to dual wield blades. We have seen this in films after all.

[Quintus Antonius]

It is possible that he is a W/A, or an A/W. I think there is enough evidence to support one of those, and considering that we don't see him use a wand or bow, I think we can rule out other professions.

[Nanashi]

Well I am speaking from a realism point of view in saying that Shiro was just a guard with exceptional skills using dual blades. In other words I don't see why the emperor would use sins as a form of military where the only sins we see currently there are Nika and Panaku, both of which are united through our campaign - as stated Nika was an exception for being referred to as "princess"

[Quintus Antonius]

Actually, I can understand perfectly why there'd be an organized goverment assassin group, come on know, I'm sure you've heard of ninja. The Am Fah and Jade Brotherhood both use assassins, then there is the Obsidian Flame too. There are plenty of assassins in Cantha, and probably many working for the Emperor. It is just a matter of us not seeing them because they didn't play a significant part in the story.

[aptaleonII]

AHA! AHA! i knew it, y'all, here we go. Factions official guidebook, Shiro is referred to as a "Master of the Assassin's disciplines". Later on, he is referred to clearly as "The deadly Assassin". This is in a section telling his story, and when he is referred to as such, he has not yet murdered the emperor, so it can refer to nothing else but his proffession.

The crusader strikes again :P

[Barinthus]

Also that's the entire point of assassin organizations - to be hidden behind the scenes. No point in doing it if you insist having your members frolick around with shirts saying "Sin Here!"

[Nanashi]

Actually, I can understand perfectly why there'd be an organized goverment assassin group, come on know, I'm sure you've heard of ninja. The Am Fah and Jade Brotherhood both use assassins, then there is the Obsidian Flame too. There are plenty of assassins in Cantha, and probably many working for the Emperor. It is just a matter of us not seeing them because they didn't play a significant part in the story.

I suppose that could be I just never got that impression. I would see this more likely taking place between Kurzick and Luxon rather than the Imperial forces. The Imperials even had a group, lead by Shiro, who weren't sneaky about their ways really. They delt with the problems from the Am Fah and Jade like a police task force. Grant it, assassins are quite common amongst people outside of the loop or the grip of the government. (IE Rebels and such) so yes the Am Fah definitely had assassins to possibly assassinate high ranks of the Imperial forces and in their opinion this would lower the moral of the Emperor while raising their own. However the difference between a Ninja and Assassin are quite technical even though an assassin was somewhat given birth to by the Ninja... well not given birth to but perfected by the Ninja. My point was I didn't think the Emperor actually had a rank amongst his own forces that taught the way of the assassin... that was Shing Jae's job then again I wouldn't doubt money finding it's away across the sea...

Also that's the entire point of assassin organizations - to be hidden behind the scenes. No point in doing it if you insist having your members frolick around with shirts saying "Sin Here!"

Yeah really wish we had our own set of quests that made us feel like assassins -_-

AHA! AHA! i knew it, y'all, here we go. Factions official guidebook, Shiro is referred to as a "Master of the Assassin's disciplines". Later on, he is referred to clearly as "The deadly Assassin". This is in a section telling his story, and when he is referred to as such, he has not yet murdered the emperor, so it can refer to nothing else but his proffession.

Bah where is that? I take it the guide book was in the Extended version? All I got is a little booklet in my game telling us of the current events and the day Shiro killed the Emporer.

[Quintus Antonius]

Yeah really wish we had our own set of quests that made us feel like assassins -_-


I seem to remember several quests involving assassinations. Only, they were more like getting a haircut with a lawnmower, rather than scissors.

[Nanashi]

I seem to remember several quests involving assassinations. Only, they were more like getting a haircut with a lawnmower, rather than scissors.

1 missily quest in which you first meet Panaku and he takes you to assassinate the Tengu guy. Well there's one when you get to Kainang that has you survey a scene but it's pretty dumb.

Well as long as they give us a cloak in GW2 this could open more possibilities as to how our missions can work. I want to see some Thief style stealthage.

[Quintus Antonius]

No, there is also a few quests to assassinate the leaders of the Jade Brotherhood, destroy that new assassins guild, and also there are a plethora of quests in the vassal states that want you to assassinate various Kurzick or Luxon officials depending on your side.

[aptaleonII]

Bah where is that? I take it the guide book was in the Extended version? All I got is a little booklet in my game telling us of the current events and the day Shiro killed the Emporer.
The book i have here is a massive big A4-sized book, not a booklet. It was NOT free with the game, and it has loads of information in it... i'll quickly look for anything else interesting.

HEEERE we go. It gives information on some heroic deeds Shiro did while working honestly for Emperor Angsiyan. He famously repelled an attack by the Am Fah in 1368, beheading the leader and slaughtering the surrenderers.
Then later in 1375 he rescued Angsiyan's young son from a group of corrupt canthan ministers who had conspired to kidnap him, and killed them all while the boy watched. He then proceeded, without orders, to mount their heads on pikes outside the celestial ministry.

Even more impressively, he managed to make Saint Viktor and Archemorus forget their differences and pledge allegiance to the emperor.

Something of note- the books say that when Shiro started studying dark sorcery, he found it to be second nature to him, and the darkest spells were the easiest of all.

[Nanashi]

No, there is also a few quests to assassinate the leaders of the Jade Brotherhood, destroy that new assassins guild, and also there are a plethora of quests in the vassal states that want you to assassinate various Kurzick or Luxon officials depending on your side.

The quest description is one thing but I mean the way they immerse you into said quest. You sure don't feel like a sin when you have 7 others with you and the activity itself would feel no different than running through it with a warrior... So I just hope Anet looks at Thief/Assassin's Creed/CoV (stalker class) and tries to come up with a line of quests that actually make you feel like an assassin.

Something of note- the books say that when Shiro started studying dark sorcery, he found it to be second nature to him, and the darkest spells were the easiest of all.

Same idea of, this is kind of silly but, Voldimort no? In the second book it described his young hood and he was a good kid. In the fourth the dude with the weird eye (forget his name) he even says to understand you enemies you must learn to think like them. Which is true to some extent.

But it's the idea of it. The curiosity no doubt that draws someone into studying taboo acts. Kind of like my idea of it if I was to role play it, "I'll take these spells and use it against 'them'." Which always turns to corruption. But ya not surprising really.

[gervasium]

Alastor Moody (the dude with the weird eye) in the fourth book turns out to be a follower of Voldemort that was transformed into the famous auror.
Voldemort, was never descrived as a good guy. He pretended to be a really nice guy but, in the "Half-Blood Prince", Dumbledore tells Harry, Voldemort was evil sice he met him when he was 11th.
The fact that he received that prize at the Hogwarts only pictures him as a bad guy, as he won that prize by killing an innocent girl (the mourning mirtle) and make Hagrid get blaimed for it.

Same idea of, this is kind of silly but, Voldimort no?
That's cliché. I also thought of him.


The book i have here is a massive big A4-sized book, not a booklet. It was NOT free with the game, and it has loads of information in it... i'll quickly look for anything else interesting.

HEEERE we go. It gives information on some heroic deeds Shiro did while working honestly for Emperor Angsiyan. He famously repelled an attack by the Am Fah in 1368, beheading the leader and slaughtering the surrenderers.
Then later in 1375 he rescued Angsiyan's young son from a group of corrupt canthan ministers who had conspired to kidnap him, and killed them all while the boy watched. He then proceeded, without orders, to mount their heads on pikes outside the celestial ministry.

Even more impressively, he managed to make Saint Viktor and Archemorus forget their differences and pledge allegiance to the emperor.

Something of note- the books say that when Shiro started studying dark sorcery, he found it to be second nature to him, and the darkest spells were the easiest of all.

Man, I need that book!!

[aptaleonII]

Man, I need that book!!

It's a good book, but a little outdated. The skill listing has a few wrong values for example, and at one point it lists a type of enemy called "Dryads", but it's mostly useful. I asked about a Nightfall one, but either there wasn't one, or they were out :(

Hmm... it says the Lore section was written by "Loremaster Ermenred, Ascalon City, 1072 AE." He's an NPC, is he not?

[gervasium]

Yes, he is. He is that guy in Lion's Arch that say's:
"Do I know you?"
If we say yes he replies tha we don't and if we say we don't, he says we do meet him.

Intresting.

[Barinthus]

What's name of that book? So i can look for it on ebay heheh

[aptaleonII]

All it says on the book is "Guild Wars Factions" and "Official Guidebook". There's a picture of Nika on the front, looking intense and twirling a pair of daggers between her fingers. The price is listed as £12.99 (pounds), but i got it reduced with the game.

[Quintus Antonius]

In America the book is the Prima Official Guide to Guild Wars Factions and has a female ritualist on the front.

[Barinthus]

LoL I have that already.

I need to go back to it I suppose.

BTW i didnt see any for NF - did they make one for NF?

[gervasium]

I think i heard something about not existing prima guides for nightfall. I wish they existed, and I wish i could get one in my country. (retarded nation :()

[Quintus Antonius]

There's not a guide for Nightfall.

[gervasium]

I really need to know more about shiro. That information about he saving the Emperor's son will be really useful for the comics. What else is there to know about him that is not stated in the game?

[aptaleonII]

I'll have a look through for ya, although what i've said is pretty much all that's major. If you want a few minor details i'll list a couple.
1) Although it was never properly acknowledged by the Imperial Government OR Emperor Angsiyan, Shiro deserved a lot of the credit for getting the Luxons & Kurzicks to negotiate. "He spoke a language the warring factions understood".
2) It says Shiro Tagachi was of ROYAL BLOOD, but perhaps quite a few generations removed. It also refers to Angsiyan as Shiro's cousin, but this may be a turn of phrase and nothing more.
3) If the comic you're writing, Gervasium, will include the happenings of the day of the Jade Wind, this might be of use to you. It was the Final day of the harvest festival, in the year 1382 CC, and Vizu was FLEEING FROM THE AM FAH when she saw "the death of the empire" behind Shiro's eyes, as their gazes met.
4) Shiro was famous among Assassins even before he killed Angsiyan- that's why Vizu recognised him. Assassins recognised him, a member of their discipline, for having such a prestigious position guarding the emperor.
5) This was not clear in the trailer- Angsiyan remained alive for a while after Shiro attacked him, and he was still alive, in agony, as Shiro performed the ritual to steal his power.
(These are just in case Gervasium wants precise details for his comic's accuracy) The Ritualists that accompanied Angsiyan into the chamber took their positions on each point of the compass.
People knew something was wrong as they could hear the Ritualist's scream, and the gong that sounded was almost an hour early (so it must have been a timekeeping gong, not an alarm gong).

[Harjubal od Uo]

The Factions guide is very useful but it might be worth pointing out that it was penned something like fifty years before the "present day" in game terms and was written by a Tyrian (Whom we don't even know is Krytan or Ascalonian) who spent only a few years in Cantha while it was an even more hostile place to outsiders. To top it all off, it then seems Ermenred, or someone working in his name, recently revised the book even though the game seems to hint he's suffering from Alzheimer's or dementia.

The book is incredibly useful for lore, but it should also all be taken with a few more grains of salt than normal considering the author and the circumstances under which he wrote it.

[Quintus Antonius]

He's Krytan. I think that's explained in the preface to the guide.

[aptaleonII]

Malaquire has made more than one trip. He remarks on how much the land has changed. He says he wrote the lore in 1072 AE- the year we start in prophecies, not fifty years prior.

Also, if we really MUST question the credentials of the author, his style of writing shows he knows what he's talking about, and that he is trustworthy. There is VERY little similarity to the man we see ingame.

[Quintus Antonius]

In-game he might legitamately think he knows/doesn't know us. A guy that well travelled probably forgets faces after awhile.

[gervasium]

Just to let you know i've finished the episode of the comics. Some of the information could not have been put there as it would make the comic really long, but they'll be of use later.

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444279

The episode where the events of the jade sea happen is the 7th, but to keep track of the happenings, it would be better to read them all.

[PuppyEater]

In-game he might legitamately think he knows/doesn't know us. A guy that well travelled probably forgets faces after awhile.

That could also be his attempt at pointing out that he doesnt have time for us, or is to busy to deal with the likes of some lowly adventurer, since when you meat him in-game your not quite yet the global savior of all mankind :afro:

[gervasium]

I now need help with another sea name for the comics. While it's not directly related to Cantha, I would like to ask if there's any evidence on the name of the sea/ocean between Tyria and Cantha. I looked on the factions manuscripts and couldn't find anything. I talked to Jiaiju Tai (the canthan npc in LA), thinking that she might have had any idea but she didn't, and so I come here, hoping that you could tell me anything about that. I remember hearing about the name somewhere in gw (no, I'm not mistaking it with the sea of Sorrows) , but now I'm not sure.

[aptaleonII]

The main body of water between Tyria and Cantha is known as "The Clashing Seas", i believe.

[Ranger Nietzsche]

mmm ive never heard that.

The closest one would be the Sea of Sorrows, but that is only the area between Kryta and Orr.

[Quintus Antonius]

The main body of water between Tyria and Cantha is known as "The Clashing Seas", i believe.

She says when you ask her where Cantha is that it is a journey across the "clashing seas", no capitals, meaning it is a description of the seas, not the name.

[NameAlreadyInUse]

She says when you ask her where Cantha is that it is a journey across the "clashing seas", no capitals, meaning it is a description of the seas, not the name.

Just a thought, but you suppose this is an indication that there are actually two major bodies of water to be crossed to travel from Cantha to Tyria?

Something like the Straight of Gibralter where, literally two seas clash, or maybe a situation similar to crossing the dangerous, stormy seas of the Horn of Africa (seperating two oceans), similar to the trade routes taken from Southeast Asia/India to Europe during the 1600s? Maybe it is something as dangerous, even, as the trip around the southern tip of South America where the Pacific and Atlantic meet in the Southern Ocean.

[Quintus Antonius]

When you sail across the Atlantic, they call it the "high seas", doesn't mean it's more than one.

[NameAlreadyInUse]

When you sail across the Atlantic, they call it the "high seas", doesn't mean it's more than one.

Good point, but when I think of clashing, I generally thing that you would need more than one thing to, you know, clash with.

All we really know for sure is that you have to sail south from Tyria to get to Cantha. All I'm asking is if anyone thinks it would be plausable for there to be, in fact, more than one ocean/sea involved? Granted, we'll never know for sure without detailed sea charts and trade line maps, but if we're assuming that, on the whole, the world of Tyria is similar to our one earth, then it would seem like there may indeed be more than one 'sea' to be crossed.

[aptaleonII]

She says when you ask her where Cantha is that it is a journey across the "clashing seas", no capitals, meaning it is a description of the seas, not the name.

Actually, it is indeed the name:

http://gw.gamewikis.org/images/4/47/Tyria.jpg

[Quintus Antonius]

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This is what I got.

[Troal]

The Nightfall timeline mentions the Margonite's control of the "Unending Ocean." Could this possibly be the name of the body of water seperating Cantha and Tyria?

[Quintus Antonius]

I found the map aptaleon linked to. It's not even official. It's user made, so it is not a credible or accepted source. Most likely it was made by similar people who don't know the nuances of noun capitalization in the English language.

[NameAlreadyInUse]

The Nightfall timeline mentions the Margonite's control of the "Unending Ocean." Could this possibly be the name of the body of water seperating Cantha and Tyria?

I had always taken that to just mean that they were master shipwrights and sailors, but now that you mention it, it would make a decent name for a huge body of water that few people would ever even consider crossing in their lifetime.

I really wish ANet would produce a fully labeled globe of Tyria or something. Now that's an item I'd snap up from the store if they ever implement one.

[aptaleonII]

Most likely it was made by similar people who don't know the nuances of noun capitalization in the English language.

Can i just say i do understand the nuances of noun capitalization in the language, and i was mislead, as that map was in fact an amalgam of several official maps, with only certain elements added, such as name of the "Clashing Seas".

[Quintus Antonius]

None of which included that as the name of the seas. You are using an unofficial map, on an unofficial site, both of which are user edited and created. It is not a source which we can credibly accept information from.

[aptaleonII]

I accepted that. I was straightening out my inferences from your message.

[La Jaffa]

The Nightfall timeline mentions the Margonite's control of the "Unending Ocean." Could this possibly be the name of the body of water seperating Cantha and Tyria?

That was the name of the Crystal desert befor it was all sandy wasnt it?

[Gmr Leon]

That was the name of the Crystal desert befor it was all sandy wasnt it?

No, the Crystal Desert was called the Crystal Sea before it became the desert.

[La Jaffa]

No, the Crystal Desert was called the Crystal Sea before it became the desert.

Oja, How ironic ..
The crystal sea, the crystal Desert

i should have known that:brainiac: