[Dev Update] Razah, Questing, & You

[Gaile]

Greetings,

Here's the latest from the Guild Wars Dev Team!

In listening to players, we know that you have been concerned about the difficulty of acquiring the Ritualist Hero, Razah. In the near future, those who complete Nightfall will have a new way to acquire Razah. And those who already have acquired Razah will be in for a pleasant surprise.

What the designers have done is (1) add a quest to Guild Wars, and (2) change the existing "Finding a Purpose" quest (the 'Get Razah" quest). There are four categories of players in this situation. Simply find which of the categories you belong to and you'll learn about your new options.

(1) I have not started the "Finding a Purpose" quest.
Proceed as you desire once you have beaten Nightfall, but note that there has been a significant change to the quest: you are longer required to pay gemstones to complete it. You can get the "Finding a Purpose" quest from Chaplain Phyratyss in the Gate of Anguish and when you complete it, Razah will join your cadre of Heroes.

(2) I have completed the "Finding a Purpose" quest.
A new quest has been added for you. Take the "Money Back Guarantee" quest as offered by Keeper Shafoss in the Abaddon's Gate outpost. When you complete this quest, you will be rewarded with one of each type of gemstone.

(3) I am in the middle of the "Finding a Purpose quest and I've already paid my gemstones to Keeper Milzesh.
Complete the "Finding a Purpose" quest, and then speak to Keeper Shafoss in the Abaddon's Gate outpost. When you complete the "Money Back Guarantee" quest you'll get one of each gemstone back. Special Note: If you already have paid the gemstone fee but have not completed the "Finding a Purpose" quest, do NOT abandon the quest. If you abandon the quest, you will not be offered the "Money Back Guarantee" quest and will not get a gemstone refund.

(4) I had "Finding a Purpose" on my quest log, but I had not paid the gemstones to Keeper Milzesh and the quest is not on my log any longer.
Due to the change in the gemstone requirement, the "Finding a Purpose" quest has been removed from your log. Simply talk to Chaplain Phyratyss in the Gate of Anguish again to add the revised quest back to your log. You can then complete it without the gemstone fee.
So, in a nutshell, players who have already paid the gemstones for Razah will be unaffected by the change to the "Finding a Purpose" quest, but will have the option to complete the new "Money Back Guarantee" quest. Upon completion they will receive a refund of their one each of the four gemstones. Players who have not paid gemstones simply need to accept the "Finding a Purpose" quest from Chaplain Phyratyss in the Gate of Anguish and complete the quest in order to gain Razah as a hero.

On, and more good news: We believe this update will be live in a couple of weeks.

Hope you like the latest info, and do feel free to share your thoughts in this thread. We'll be reading, as always! :smiley:

[Captain Sarcastic]

Awesome!


...and thanks!

[Aisha Heavens]

Awesome news!!! I guess after all I will get the last hero on my list!!!
Thanks much Gaile!!! :D

[Buddah]

This might silence a few people on the topic of Razah.

Now to hassle the devs until a mini keg is added to the game.

[Walks With Angels]

Hurray ! Hmm, those Coffers are crying out for my refund...

[Empraim Wainwright]

Sweet! Thanks anet!
and thanks for sharing Gaile :)

[cranialexodus]

Thanks x100

[Kahlan]

<3's to the dev team!!!!

[Buddy Judas]

Awesome.

For record, i have bought 10 Titan gems recently for gettin Razah on all my 10 chars (ouch, no momeny left) but i do NOT feel any anger ... i am happy for everyone what can now get him without grind.

[Shadow Flameheart]

Very Interesting...there Galie..

[Aksharack]

woohoo! Amazing news. Great to see action taken on this issue. Nice to see people who had already completed this quest are given a way to recoup the loss. Nice change.

[Kahlan]

Awesome.

For record, i have bought 10 Titan gems recently for gettin Razah on all my 10 chars (ouch, no momeny left) but i do NOT feel any anger ... i am happy for everyone what can now get him without grind.

You can always turn your sets into the coffers and potentially make your money back ;)

[CMEPTb]

Ty, ty, ty. This will please many in my Guild including myself :grin: .

[upier]

although i am still not too thrilled that Razzy-babez is still in DoA i thank you for making the change!

(ohh and btw - since you are reading - be sure to read up on the "remove the freaking favor system that is keeping us from fow/uw and making the game less enjoyable than it really is! (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=446269)"-thread! :wink:)

(there - ive *****ed about fow/uw, said thanks for razzy - so i wont mention the missing-in-action pet cotrols this time! just to cut you guys some slack! :wink: :grin:)

thanks again for razzy!

[Degas]

Best. Solution. Ever.

[Manwithtwohands]

Woot!
I'm posting again how cool this is because I love to fill forums with the 'crazy mean baby' avatar.
Now my mes and rit can have razah as a hero. /cheer

[sumrtym]

Glad to see this is being resolved.

For those complaining on favor, I'd agree on that but an even bigger problem is Factions elite mission access. Where favor allows all in that region to enter, those missions controlled by 2 alliances are about impossible to get into, and when you do, no one is there anyway.

[richo]

very nice to see this feature have been w8ting for it since the release of DoA~~

[Sir Jack]

:flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers:

tyvm

[jvxmtg]

This is great news, I knew if I wait it out that Anet will come up with a solution to cater for those who are "less" Elite like myself. :grin:

Out of curiosity though, what's the purpose of the gemstones now?

[dpcash]

Thanks for the news , Gaile. Now I can actually get Razah before my tormented longbow. :wink:

[Zilken Zatin]

Nice one thanks :)

[Sir Jack]

Out of curiosity though, what's the purpose of the gemstones now?

Tormented weaponry and Coffers with Mallyx' Mini in it.

[Goathands]

Just wanted to cheer on the change as well. I think everyone will be happy with this and it's wonderful to see that you guys took into consideration anyone who has already done this quest.

As for someone like me who doesn't have character that are "welcome" in DoA so getting gemstones is a pain...this change is awesome! It's wonderful to hear that I can finally get Razah :) A nice reward for finishing NF.

[jvxmtg]

Tormented weaponry and Coffers with Mallyx' Mini in it.

shweeeet! :laugh:

I'll give it a try tonight and see where it takes me.

[Sir Jack]

shweeeet! :laugh:

I'll give it a try tonight and see where it takes me.

Coffer has either of the following though:
* 5 Anguish Gemstones of the same type
* 1 Armbrace of Truth
* 5 Demonic Keys
* 5 Diamonds
* 5 Elixirs of Valor
* 1 Miniature Mallyx
* 5 Rubies
* 5 Sapphires
* 5 Scrolls of the Lightbringer
* 1 Primeval Armor Remnant

[Malhavoc Adhamar]

http://www.geocities.com/seryni_rayne/happydancebunny.gif (http://www.geocities.com/seryni_rayne/happydancebunny.gif)

Finally I'll be able to get Razah and complete the hero collection.

[Saint Troy]

This is super sweet news for all those like me who held out on getting Razah due to the price of Gemstones.

Nice one Gaile and the Dev Team :grin: .

[jvxmtg]

Coffer has either of the following though:
* 5 Anguish Gemstones of the same type
* 1 Armbrace of Truth
* 5 Demonic Keys
* 5 Diamonds
* 5 Elixirs of Valor
* 1 Miniature Mallyx
* 5 Rubies
* 5 Sapphires
* 5 Scrolls of the Lightbringer
* 1 Primeval Armor Remnant

I got my eyes on the Tomented Shield, so I'll do the quest just for that. But I'm not sure if I'll like the area though since the last time was just too much for my taste. But I'll give it a try. This update is a good incentive for me. :wink:

[Tsukasa Kusanagi]

Thanks goodness. I never thought I'd have any chance of getting Razah.

[xianli]

This is great news!

Is my Razah going to have to wear a pink Carebear sweater, though?

[Isaiah]

This seems like the best possible remedy to the situation for all involved. Kudos.

[Azure Eyes]

When will this take effect?

[Divinity Archer]

Djeez! Thanks a lot!

Now the Titan Gem farming will be useless, the prices will go down fast! And all because of the whiners who couldn't afford Razah!

...

Just kidding :wink:

I will get my money elsewhere, and Razah was indeed not worth the trouble. He is the only rit hero available atm. He would be worth the Gems if he was the multiproffession thingie he was originally intended to be, but in his current status he ain't worth 60k+.

So, flowers for Anet! :flowers:

PS: now I can get Razah too! :happy:

[Cérilia]

Very good move! I love it. :smiley:

[Li Yu]

Neat solution! Nice to hear!

*going to poke guildies for Razah hunting*

[WhiteFox]

I have him on my mesmie already.
BUT WOOT! I don't care! Now my ritualist/para/ele can have them to! And with the quest, I can regain some even, so what?! :wink:

Thank you SO much! haha, feel so childish being so happy but what the heck, right? Long live my inner child! :grin:

*hugs Gaile and Anet till they turn purple*
There!

[Hee Haw]

Fantastic!

I bought him with one character last week, but had pretty much resigned myself to not getting him with my others. Now I can realistically do that, and get the gems back to boot!

although i am still not too thrilled that Razzy-babez is still in DoA i thank you for making the change!

I may be misinterpreting what you're saying, but Razah is not in DoA. Once you obtain the quest, it is performed in RoT, with RoT enemies. It's definitely a quest that anyone who got that far can do with heroes, henchies, and careful pulling.

[ChaoticCoyote]

I have characters who have and who don't have Razah... very nicely done, ANet.

Wonderful.

Good stuff.

Thanks!

[sdcmgs]

Gaile, this is great news! I send thanks to you and the rest of the Dev Team for listening : )

[peffy]

VERY nice work!

[Princess eirika]

Thank you thank you thank you!! :flowers:

Now I can finally aquire all my heroes now :grin: I'm also happy that the people who already did the quest will be able to get their gems back.

Nice thinking Anet!

[upier]

I may be misinterpreting what you're saying, but Razah is not in DoA. Once you obtain the quest, it is performed in RoT, with RoT enemies. It's definitely a quest that anyone who got that far can do with heroes, henchies, and careful pulling.

zomg!
so i was mistaken all this time!
even better!
thanks for the info!
:flowers:

[BuLLiT]

GREAT!!!
thxthxthx ANet
Those are great news, can't wait for the update.
Thx for sharing Gaile!!!:flowers:

[stubberella]

Awesome news, Gaile! Thanks for sharing and listening! :flowers:

[The Dark Sisterhood]

Very nice, I knew I would have no problem getting him at least once, but thought it unlikely I would manage to get him for all my characters.

So now I can at least look at DoA as a challenge rather than a grind.

:thumbsup:

[halfthought]

well, just cause i'm critical, I have to say I would never have done DOA to begin with if razah had not been involved.....

but whatever, I hope I get a mini-mallyx.....or a ambrace :grin:

[CarbonBasedLifeform]

holy mother of pearl.






I don't know what it is with today, but i've been having good karma today. This news of lifting the requirement for razah is... oh my god... you don't know how much me and my guild have been agonizing over the whole Razah ordeal... We all thought this was something that would only happen way into next year... or maybe never... but this news just made my day, along with everything else... wow...

:sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

[NeoSaber]

Wow, I'm honestly suprised about this. It's the first design change I've really agreed with in months. This may actually get me to play Guild Wars again.

[satenia]

Hilarious, one day after I finally decided to spend my money on the gems :p

But ah well, I'm glad that a decent solution is being worked on... trying my luck on a coffer isn't so bad either.

Great job!

[CarbonBasedLifeform]

i drew attention to myself in the quiet study hall at my school by squeeling in glee. Needless to say i got really snarling glares.

LOL =O

[spywolf]

best solution for all.. they really do listen to players..

hopefully the "money back guarantee' quest isn't too hard to do or there will be more whinings :)

[Ultrix Dei]

Thank's for the awsome news, Gaile!

Can't wait for the update :P

[Garreth MacLeod]

Really glad to hear this. I thought for sure something like this would never happen. Two thumbs up!

[the grieving terror]

Lol, I literally just got Razah for the first time about 3 hours ago... Oh well, I'll be getting a Coffer of Whispers instead, hehe.

Great news though, at least now my mesmer won't be the only one with a Razah. :)

[Guildoholic]

Finally!

(012-345-6789)

[themagicmoedee]

My thanks go out to Gaile and the developers for recognizing the issue and coming up with a method of redress that at least appears to have been well received by all parties. Good on you guys.

[shadowhand]

Excellent solution :D

Looking forward to finally getting access to Razah.

[salaboB]

Hilarious, one day after I finally decided to spend my money on the gems :p
Or just resell them at the same price you just bought them, since prices shouldn't have changed much and the general gamers likely won't know about this just yet.

[Tiny Killer]

Well, this will certainly make it easier to get Razah for the rest of my characters. Way to go, ANet!

[Chthon]

Thank you. :flowers: :flowers:

I am immensely pleased. Better late than never.

:soapbox: <(See! A-net does listen!)

[nytestalker]

:/


Way to kill yet another elite thing ingame.



All because a handfull of people complain... What about the multitudes ingame that found getting razah to be rather easy. Just tedious....

[salaboB]

:/


Way to kill yet another elite thing ingame.



All because a handfull of people complain... What about the multitudes ingame that found getting razah to be rather easy. Just tedious....
All the more reason to remove it, "tedious" == time consuming != elite.

[DarkSpirit]

This is wonderful news and it makes perfect sense.

Either make Razah more accessible or give us another Rit hero who is more accessible. I would have been happy with either options.

Currently without a more accessible Rit hero, Rit runes, insignia, and items tend to be merchant (or rune trader) food. My green Ritual Lord staves have to double up as healer staves since I dont have a Ritualist hero and my single Ritualist char has everything she needs. Build-innovation involving a Rit in the team had to take a back seat too.

This update should solve these problems. I have 14 playable chars who have completed all 3 campaigns. I would sure hate to have to pay gems for ALL of them to acquire Razah.

[Princess eirika]

:/


Way to kill yet another elite thing ingame.



All because a handfull of people complain... What about the multitudes ingame that found getting razah to be rather easy. Just tedious....

Handful? I think you need to reread the thread and see how many people wanted this (and counting) update. Razah isn't elite, nor should there have been such a requirement, that's why it was changed.

[maina]

Hiya,

I think it's a good thing. I was on the selling side of a few gem sets, so NP there.:wink:

All because a handfull of people complain... What about the multitudes ingame that found getting razah to be rather easy. Just tedious....

As part of your "multitudes", I guess I'd say what I did above, because it doesn't effect my game play one bit.

Maina

[Captain Sarcastic]

:/
All because a handfull of people complain... What about the multitudes ingame that found getting razah to be rather easy. Just tedious....

Ah, simple mistake, let me fix it for you...

"All because multitudes of people complain... What about the handfull ingame that found getting razah to be rather easy. Just tedious...."

That's better. :)

[RDarken]

Cool, thanks

[Kailden Jera]

Take that evil doers! Now the selfish people how wanted Razah as a show off item will get what they deserve. And I mean all their Gems back. xD

[MoonUnit]

Very cool, thanks for the update! :smiley:

[aptaleonII]

This is a huge improvement. Thank you!

:/
Way to kill yet another elite thing ingame.
All because a handfull of people complain... What about the multitudes ingame that found getting razah to be rather easy. Just tedious....
First of all, the challenge is still there, just for uber weaponry and money instead of a hero. Secondly, this would be an improvement for those "multitudes" anyway as it would remove the tedious aspect.

I assure those "multitudes", they are in the minority.

[Minex]

This might silence a few people on the topic of Razah.


...a few. I'm wondering if there will be any threads complaining that the "Finding a Purpose" quest is too hard.

[sequel]

Great news, i like my razah all the way ( he's been my healer ever scince i got him because i didn't like neither thalkora nor dunkuro ) and this will allow many people to get him ( even if i don't agree that one should get everything one desires just for yelling and whining ). He's truly worth getting despite many players considering him rather average as a hero.

Only downside is that the gemstones i'll recover won't replace the 140k i've payed to get him unless i'm really lucky with that coffer ( alltaugh this repaiment will mean even less to those that achieved to gather the gems in the elite missions ). A better idea might have been changing the dye of his armor depending on when you got him or something like that.

[Zehnchu]

Thanks for the news and the Dev team was able to make it possible


All I have to say is <grin>

[kyln]

Great news.

Thank you for listening Anet

[Scutilla]

Gaile, you made my day. Thanks to the dev team for taking the time to consider and implements changes to this issue.

And people say ANet doesn't listen to us :grin:

Guess I should start looking out for Communing staves after all, then...

Any guesstimate on when this will be implemented? (Between this and Hard Mode and title splitting, we've got quite a few juicy updates in the near future to look forwards to.)

[JoeKnowMo]

Thanks for listening Anet.

A special thank you to all those who fought the good fight in the Acquiring Razah thread (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=443673).

I take full credit for this change. :rolleyes:
Anet read my terrific post and copied my idea. :shocked: /sarcasm

[QUOTE=JoeKnowMo;4728467I'd suggest that Anet announce a month or so in advance that they're going to make Razah easy to get and that those players that currently have him can exchange him at a "Razah Tamer" and get their gemstones back.[/QUOTE]

[spywolf]

one thing i notice what will come after is that.. there will be more spam "help acquire razah for x gold!" service-- like spider capture service in uw..

[dopple]

Good news, thanks!

[LagunaCid]

Hell yea!
Mad props to the dev team!

[critical vengeance]

sweeeeeet!!!!

[Natalie Black]

Thanks Anet and Gaile, now I can get the last hero I need.

[Vlekje Mai]

WOOT! I was hoping this wold come eventually. I think this is about the best way to have fixed the razah problem. Can't wait for update to go get him with lotsa toons.

[whitemountain]

I'm speechless (don't laugh y'all).

Now I have a reason to get my last 2 new characters to complete NF.

Thanks!

wm.

[Xerox]

Great job Anet =). Razah is fixed.

[Rkyve]

Pet controls, hard mode and now Razah all coming. Thanks Anet!

[nkuvu]

-pokes Xerox- (Sorry, irresistible penguin)

Very nice update, looking forward to getting Razah.

[popsie]

while i would like to thank the devs for finally listening to the consumers regarding razah and the ai aoe flee ... i am just wondering why it took this long for them to get their heads out of their axxex? this is good news but im afraid its not gonna bring back all the people who have already decided to leave guild wars for some other game where the consumers are being spoiled rotten by the devs ... pity.

but hey, thanks!

[Harshateja]

The Getting Your Money Back quest should give 20k experience (or more) so that people who actually spent the time to earn Razah the nonnoob way will gain a benefit (which has no gameplay benefits! Yes, I'm talking to you Erasculio.).

[Scutilla]

this is good news but im afraid its not gonna bring back all the people who have already decided to leave guild wars for some other game where the consumers are being spoiled rotten by the devs
There's a game out there where we can be spoiled rotten by the devs? I wanna play that game! :laugh:

Seriously though, I imagine they can't just rush out a quick fix for something like this. First they have to read the community feedback and realize that there is a problem, then they have to discuss whether and exactly how to change it. It's not just something they can decide on in an afternoon; a hasty decision can result in a situation just as bad as or worse than the original one. And then of course they actually have to implement it, all along while trying to work on a thousand other different features.

The Getting Your Money Back quest should give 20k experience (or more) so that people who actually spent the time to earn Razah the nonnoob way will gain a benefit (which has no gameplay benefits! Yes, I'm talking to you Erasculio.).
Wouldn't this benefit the people who got him "the noob way" just as much? (I'm guessing that by "the nonnoob way" you mean farming for the gems instead of buying them.)

[Harshateja]

Wouldn't this benefit the people who got him "the noob way" just as much? (I'm guessing that by "the nonnoob way" you mean farming for the gems instead of buying them.)

How would it benefit them? They won't have access to the quest.

[popsie]

There's a game out there where we can be spoiled rotten by the devs? I wanna play that game! :laugh:

well to be honest, it does seem that we are now the ones being spoiled rotten by anet and that to me is a good thing :grin:

[Scutilla]

How would it benefit them? They won't have access to the quest.
Huh? Everyone who paid gems to get Razah would get the gem-redeeming quest, regardless of whether they bought the original gems or farmed for them in DoA.

Unless you're talking about people who didn't get Razah at all, and waited until after the update to get him for free.

well to be honest, it does seem that we are now the ones being spoiled rotten by anet and that to me is a good thing :grin:
My thoughts exactly :tongue:

[Xerox]

The Getting Your Money Back quest should give 20k experience (or more) so that people who actually spent the time to earn Razah the nonnoob way will gain a benefit (which has no gameplay benefits! Yes, I'm talking to you Erasculio.).

Seriously you should be lucky your even getting your gems back. Its been trends where the early birds don't receive anything back. Instead of spreading your "All Mighty Elitist" words, how you you say a few positive things like "Finally, those casual gamers who wanted Razah can get it". I still don't understand your attitude. Its as if you don't want others to get it so you can show off your Razah as if hes some uber l33t hero.

[Buffy Bj Summers]

OMG... this means I'll have 8 sets of Gems coming back to me. Granted, the prices have gone down by a lot so I won't exactly be getting my money back, but if I sell my set for 50k each, that's still 400k. O_O

I would have been happy with Anet simply removing the Gem requirements, but going back and giving something to players who already have Razah...

Thank you. :smiley:

[popsie]

prices will drop at first, for sure, but then you can use your gems for other items instead so it will quickly stabilize, i doubt at the 50K level per set though ... but hey, it is a great easter gift eh?

[Blackbriar]

I'm shocked... not only a response but a planned update too. Awesome! Thank you for listening!

[halfthought]

honestly, I don't see why anyone still does DoA. It provides a uneven reward=/=time investment. Titan gems are 50k. It takes a whopping 4-5 hours for the average player to get it.

if I were to farm for 4-5 hours straight, I could make 250k.....5 times the amount doa would give me(though farming and Doa both bore the crap out of me....I just beat DoA to prove to myself I could do it)

[Fade Into Shadow]

honestly, I don't see why anyone still does DoA. It provides a uneven reward=/=time investment. Titan gems are 50k. It takes a whopping 4-5 hours for the average player to get it.

if I were to farm for 4-5 hours straight, I could make 250k.....5 times the amount doa would give me(though farming and Doa both bore the crap out of me....I just beat DoA to prove to myself I could do it)

Typically people do it for fun...or maybe thats just me. Either way this is a most welcome update.

[beldeti]

Finally, a reason to play my Ritualist! (for skill unlocks)

Thanks for the win-win situation that was implemented :)

[ccrazool]

Gaile,

I bow to you, and to everyone at Arena.Net, and then again to you.

[Zaxares]

To Gaile and ANet:

Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you THANK YOU! :grin: :grin: :grin:

I had prayed and hoped that this would be implemented, and I'm glad to see that you haven't let me down, ANet. :smiley:

I still need 65 Primeval Armor Remnants, however...

[Hlub Koj]

Yay! Thanks anet, I can finally get my last hero :grin:

[Scutilla]

I still need 65 Primeval Armor Remnants, however...
*whack* Bad Zax! Curb those perfectionist impulses! (I think you actually need 75, anyways :laugh:)

[Neo Alastor]

Thanks for the great update!!

[Cavalero]

Thank you Gaile. Very much appreciated.

[Zaxares]

*whack* Bad Zax! Curb those perfectionist impulses! (I think you actually need 75, anyways :laugh:)

...

*calculates*

You're right. It's 75... :shocked:

... *whimper* :cry:

Well, now that I no longer need to buy Titan gems to get Razah, maybe I'll have enough spare money to make up the shortfall...

[Tai Taiho]

Oh, I can't believe it!
This is really good news.
Yay! :cloud9:
Thank you!

[powercozmic]

Even though I was against making Razah cheaper, I think this move is cool. 1 new quest and gems back :smiley:

[Gaile]

Glad you guys are pleased with this future update -- I'm loving it, too. When James mentioned that they were working on Razah, I practically got whiplash grapping a pencil and a tablet (lavender paper, of course) as I said, "Keep talkin', Bud. Details -- We want details!" :laugh:

I love the way the designers do things. The solutions they come up with an invariably more interesting than a simple change. I mean this one -- no "'Ca-ching,' here's your rebate" -- Another fun quest, and gems back, too? :cloud9:

My hat's off to the whole lot of 'em.

Gad, I probably need to bake, eh? :tongue:

[Ayarie]

Good News \o/

Naru

[Lady Rhonwyn]

Glad you guys are pleased with this future update -- I'm loving it, too. When James mentioned that they were working on Razah, I practically got whiplash grapping a pencil and a tablet (lavender paper, of course) as I said, "Keep talkin', Bud. Details -- We want details!" :laugh:

I love the way the designers do things. The solutions they come up with an invariably more interesting than a simple change. I mean this one -- no "'Ca-ching,' here's your rebate" -- Another fun quest, and gems back, too? :cloud9:

My hat's off to the whole lot of 'em.

Gad, I probably need to bake, eh? :tongue:

You're kidding right? I'm not pleased, I'm excited about this future update! Finally, I will be able to get them all! And I so want to try a certain build out on Razah...


A few weeks... That's... halfway april?

*starts counting the days*

[Captain Roberts]

I was being foolish and didn't read all your post. I ran to go do the razah quest and almost lost my gems :P

[Karuro]

Guess I'll finally start to finish Nightfall (Been lingering at Gate of Pain for a few weeks with my Elona-main)

[Minex]

I love the way the designers do things. The solutions they come up with an invariably more interesting than a simple change. I mean this one -- no "'Ca-ching,' here's your rebate" -- Another fun quest, and gems back, too? :cloud9:

My hat's off to the whole lot of 'em.

Gad, I probably need to bake, eh? :tongue:

Agreed, and thanks a lot Gaile. I appreciate the team going back and thinking about those of us who actually got Razah using those gems. I was a bit nervous that a change would be made to just simply lift the gem requirements on Razah and forget about those of us who already used up their gems getting him. I managed to get Razah for 7 characters, so at least I should be getting 28 gems back -- very cool.

[Scutilla]

I love the way the designers do things. The solutions they come up with an invariably more interesting than a simple change. I mean this one -- no "'Ca-ching,' here's your rebate" -- Another fun quest, and gems back, too? :cloud9:
...as long as the quest is fun and easy, and not some huge pain in the butt thing like "talk to 15 different NPCs scattered throughout the Domain of Anguish". I guarantee that if there's any difficulty involved with getting the gems back people will complain :tongue: (Ah heck, who am I kidding, people will complain regardless of what happens :laugh:)

[De Daniel]

Only the coffers have to be fixed, and we will be fine. Opened 10 coffers got nothing but sh*t.

[Minex]

Only the coffers have to be fixed, and we will be fine. Opened 10 coffers got nothing but sh*t.

Thats a concern of mine too. I may end up selling my gems. What did you end up getting?

[rexkenley]

GAAAAKKKKKK! I wish I hadn't spend the factions to unlock Razah!

BUT TY ANET! Now I can have razah on all of my chars! FEAR THE LEET WEAPONSMASTER!

[windcaller]

yey :) Razah :p

[Gaile]

I was being foolish and didn't read all your post. I ran to go do the razah quest and almost lost my gems :PPhew! So you're ok, now? That was a close call! :nervous:

Only the coffers have to be fixed, and we will be fine. Opened 10 coffers got nothing but sh*t.Thats a concern of mine too. I may end up selling my gems. What did you end up getting?Hmmm. I will check on the Coffers. I believe they really are functioning properly, but it doesn't hurt to inquire!

[Elminster]

:wave:

thx =] :heart: :heart: :heart:

[drpnif]

This is so cool... thank you Arenanet for being the greatest game developer ever!

[Firethorne]

Hmmm. I will check on the Coffers. I believe they really are functioning properly, but it doesn't hurt to inquire!

I don't think it is an issue of the coffers not functioning properly. It is more of an issue that some of the items the coffers yield are extremely valuable (ambrance, mini-mallyx) and others are only a hair above worthless (elixirs, xp scrolls, keys). There are a lot of outcomes where you'll feel your gems were wasted.

At any rate, it doesn't matter to me anymore. I unlocked Razah once and decided DoA was simply not fun enough to justify trying to get him on any more. Now I can get Razahs for other characters without having to do any horrid DoA runs or grind for cash to buy gems. Excellent change. :thumbsup:

[Verity]

Good for ANet or recognizing the imbalance in the reward system. It's a positive step and win/win for nearly all parties.

Although I am curious in why bad design decisions happen. Many of things that end up being corrected later in the game don't make sense from the start. Razah is case in point. Common sense should have prevailed much earlier so that the acquisition of the last hero never became an issue or hot topic.

Anyway I'm glad its rectified now.

[royalmagician]

When it will happen ?

[Natalie Black]

When it will happen ?

I think Gaile said about a Month.

So exited:grin:

[Harshateja]

Seriously you should be lucky your even getting your gems back. Its been trends where the early birds don't receive anything back. Instead of spreading your "All Mighty Elitist" words, how you you say a few positive things like "Finally, those casual gamers who wanted Razah can get it". I still don't understand your attitude. Its as if you don't want others to get it so you can show off your Razah as if hes some uber l33t hero.

I want a way to show that I am a better player than the average person - whether the other people want to see it or not. Its called ambition.

[Frostlight]

I want a way to show that I am a better player than the average person - whether the other people want to see it or not. Its called ambition.

And you did show it by having Razah before most people. You're the guy who paid a premium to tote around a motorola brick phone back in the 80's. Now everyone has a cell phone for next to nothing. Congratulations.

[KaliMagdalene]

I want a way to show that I am a better player than the average person - whether the other people want to see it or not. Its called ambition.

Having Razah doesn't show you're a better player than the average person. It shows that you can farm for gold and buy gemstones. Sure, you might have actually gone into the DoA and earned those gems yourself, but how many people will actually believe that?

Just show off your Protector of Elona title. That alone should show you're a decent player, given how painful the Realm of Torment is for many players.

[JoeKnowMo]

I want a way to show that I am a better player than the average person - whether the other people want to see it or not. Its called ambition.

:rolleyes: Keep the humor coming.

Being able to run a cookie-cutter build in a mind-numbingly boring area does not make you a better player. Neither does bringing Razah along into a party instead of a better hero, just so you can show him off.

Go play GvG if you want others to know that you're a better player. If you're good enough we'll get to see you on observer mode.

[halfthought]

Typically people do it for fun...or maybe thats just me. Either way this is a most welcome update.

DoA....Fun?

those were two words I thought I'd never here in a sentence that wasn't separated by the word "not"

though the best way to make money is to play the broken GW economy, I can get 50k an hour by buying ectos 100g past trader price, then selling them 100g below trader price.....:laugh:

and investing in dies during the dragon fest....that one was a winner

[Xerox]

I want a way to show that I am a better player than the average person - whether the other people want to see it or not. Its called ambition.

Having Razah doesn't make you better. Just means you have more time to spend.

[Minex]

I want a way to show that I am a better player than the average person - whether the other people want to see it or not. Its called ambition.

I agree with you. What surprises me, as indicated by all the responses, is how one gets flamed for wanting a trophy or some status for accomplishing something that is considered difficult. The word "elitisism", which is used pejoratively, comes up quite a bit, I've noticed.

[halfthought]

Having Razah doesn't make you better. Just means you have more time to spend.

generally and just generally, the more time you spend on something, the better you get at it

Don't kill/flame me :scared:

[Xerox]

generally and just generally, the more time you spend on something, the better you get at it

Don't kill/flame me :scared:

That could be the case, none the less Razah didn't fit with Anets model therefore they changed it accordingly. Anet expressed that no gameplay advantage would be limited to any player and Razah obviously limited itself to other players therefore Anet changed it.

[Hee Haw]

I agree with you. What surprises me, as indicated by all the responses, is how one gets flamed for wanting a trophy or some status for accomplishing something that is considered difficult. The word "elitisism", which is used pejoratively, comes up quite a bit, I've noticed.

Well, you're really talking about two things:

Wanting to get a "trophy" (or somesuch) for accomplishing something difficult is one thing. This is currently done through titles, endgame greens, etc. I don't think most players (in PvE anyway) have a problem with this.

Wanting a way to show that you are "better than the average player", in PvE, is different. This is where claims of elitism, founded or not, come into play.

Generally, people who crave the latter might be better served by developing a sense of accomplishment based on personal successes, rather than constantly comparing themselves to others.

[Lady Rhonwyn]

generally and just generally, the more time you spend on something, the better you get at it

Don't kill/flame me :scared:

For me, getting Razah in the current setup isn't fun at all. I think I'm good with my ranger, but nobody asks for a beastmaster in DoA. And it's just horrible to do with henchies/heroes. So, my learning to play my ranger as beastmaster to perfection (I'm not saying I am, mind you!) doesn't help me getting Razah.

[nkuvu]

generally and just generally, the more time you spend on something, the better you get at it
Of course you could have just spent a bunch of time farming, and bought the gemstones. Does that make you a better player? Sure, you're probably bound to get really good at farming, but that's a very different statement from being a good player overall.

[satenia]

I want a way to show that I am a better player than the average person - whether the other people want to see it or not. Its called ambition.

Personally, I'd call it elitism. Either way, I feel that Razah is the wrong approach to showing off - how does corpse/wall exploiting or trap/duo-farming your way through DoA with wiki builds make you a better than average player in the first place :tongue:

[Nanashi]

Now the next step is to add some GOOD henchmen so us sins can have a good time just like anybody else.

Unless if there is a preferred A/x build out there I could get my hands on to play around in this new zone freely, this is one area in the entire game I have realized we are greatly stereotyped in. :undecided: and I don't like that. It seems like such a fun place but I'm limited by the class and that I can't control, I just like playing my sin; it is my favorite after all. :smiley:

[Zaxares]

And you did show it by having Razah before most people. You're the guy who paid a premium to tote around a motorola brick phone back in the 80's. Now everyone has a cell phone for next to nothing. Congratulations.

QFT. It's the same with all the people who pay absurd amounts of money to be the first person with the mini Grey Giant, Tormented Weapons etc.

[Nanashi]

QFT. It's the same with all the people who pay absurd amounts of money to be the first person with the mini Grey Giant, Tormented Weapons etc.

It's definitely a status symbol no doubt. Although in PVP not so much, I bought Razah during Wintersday to get rid of all my Balthazar Faction. But to see Razar out in the open in PVE that's different and shows the person had been there and gotten the quest done. However, being as left out as I am, I have already decided from the moment he was released that regardless of the effort one put into it; to me it was a waste of time. It's JUST a ritualist and to me useless as I run around with Koss, Talhk, and Dun way more often than any of my other heroes.

Same difference with FoW armor. It lets others know you been there and spent lots of money on it but the only class I can stand seeing the armor on are Paragons. So I wont praise people for it. But it's a joke to expect "You're the baddest there ever was" from others around you. I would of gladly say, "What a fool." Not to be mean but yeah because of my experience on this issue... not to happy. :rolleyes:

[TheChef]

Just show off your Protector of Elona title. That alone should show you're a decent player, given how painful the Realm of Torment is for many players.

Heh, on the other hand, the other day I had my Protector of Elona title on (mostly because I wanted a break from always having the Lightbringer title track on, and I was in Cantha anyway) and happened to pass by Zin Ku Corridor and some moron started commenting that I had the noob sign up. :tongue:

I have more ours on my ritualist than any other characters. I will be having fun with Razah soon enough :laugh:

[Ate of DK]

Now the next step is to add some GOOD henchmen so us sins can have a good time just like anybody else.

I actualy found it far more easier with my Assassin than my monk to complete everything. The Assassin roxxs in PvE and I did all missions with hero's/henchman.

[Mystic Zarak]

Good news for the players that didn't have the time/money to get razah.. He wasen't worth it :)

but now that everyone can have him it removes the coolness of him now :P

[Kailden Jera]

Good news for the players that didn't have the time/money to get razah.. He wasen't worth it :)

but now that everyone can have him it removes the coolness of him now :P

Razah's coolness is NOT worth all those Gems.

[chirthain]

Really cool update!

[Lytha]

Seems like a lot of updates is upon us in April.

Too bad that I'm moving in April... oh well, I'll enjoy the changes afterwards. :smiley:


waitaminute... this thread here means that I actually can get Razah with my characters? Wow!

[Arkhan The Black]

Finally I can get Razha for all my characters without even having to go in to the DoA which I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole with most my characters.

[Danica Silverbrooke]

I want a way to show that I am a better player than the average person - whether the other people want to see it or not. Its called ambition.
And you did show it by having Razah before most people. You're the guy who paid a premium to tote around a motorola brick phone back in the 80's. Now everyone has a cell phone for next to nothing. Congratulations.
QFT

Using Razah as some sort of ego trip for a few players is no justification for purposely keeping him away from the majority.
I don't mean to sound as though I'm picking on you personally Harshateja (just used your quote as an example), but so many people seem to wonder why others get so upset about him being elite...
Want to know why?
Because no one likes a showoff. Plain and simple.

Having Razah doesn't make you a better player, it just means you're either a masochist, have far too much spare time on your hands, or have tons of imaginary currency at your disposal.

What few people who either made themselves suffer through one of the few truly miserable games levels I've ever seen, or simply used money to get it didn't care about functionality for the most part (as evidenced by some of their previous posts)
They just wanted something to wave in front of the faces of others.
It's no different than IRL when snotty upper-class kids raz on everyone "beneath" them about all their little expensive toys.

And you know what? They don't impress us "lowly have-nots" like they think.
Most of us just think they're on a serious ego trip. And well, aren't they?

Yes, I'm aware that's how the real world works and blah blah....
GW is only a game.
Meant for entertainment purposes.
As I said earlier, purposely locking away content from the majority just to satisfy the selfish few who want to flash their ubet leetness to make themselves feel better is asinine.

Some people actually want a rit hero (any rit hero, as was also mentioned earlier in this thread) for the purpose of *gasp!* actually using him in their party for game-playing purposes, rather than just showing him off.
Amazing isn't it?

Randomly... I was in a PUG once with some guy in FOW armor who kept ctrl-clicking on multiple "uber leet" weapon sets the moment he joined the party.....
He was immideately booted.
Yes indeed, no one likes a showoff...

[ShadowCreator]

QFT

Using Razah as some sort of ego trip for a few players is no justification for purposely keeping him away from the majority.
I don't mean to sound as though I'm picking on you personally Harshateja (just used your quote as an example), but so many people seem to wonder why others get so upset about him being elite...
Want to know why?
Because no one likes a showoff. Plain and simple.

Having Razah doesn't make you a better player, it just means you're either a masochist, have far too much spare time on your hands, or have tons of imaginary currency at your disposal.

What few people who either made themselves suffer through one of the few truly miserable games levels I've ever seen, or simply used money to get it didn't care about functionality for the most part (as evidenced by some of their previous posts)
They just wanted something to wave in front of the faces of others.
It's no different than IRL when snotty upper-class kids raz on everyone "beneath" them about all their little expensive toys.

And you know what? They don't impress us "lowly have-nots" like they think.
Most of us just think they're on a serious ego trip. And well, aren't they?

Yes, I'm aware that's how the real world works and blah blah....
GW is only a game.
Meant for entertainment purposes.
As I said earlier, purposely locking away content from the majority just to satisfy the selfish few who want to flash their ubet leetness to make themselves feel better is asinine.

Some people actually want a rit hero (any rit hero, as was also mentioned earlier in this thread) for the purpose of *gasp!* actually using him in their party for game-playing purposes, rather than just showing him off.
Amazing isn't it?

Very well said.

Randomly... I was in a PUG once with some guy in FOW armor who kept ctrl-clicking on multiple "uber leet" weapon sets the moment he joined the party.....
He was immideately booted.
Yes indeed, no one likes a showoff...

BTW I really like this quote. :laugh:

[Scutilla]

Unless if there is a preferred A/x build out there I could get my hands on to play around in this new zone freely, this is one area in the entire game I have realized we are greatly stereotyped in. :undecided: and I don't like that. It seems like such a fun place but I'm limited by the class and that I can't control, I just like playing my sin; it is my favorite after all. :smiley:
Stereotyped against assassins? More like DoA is stereotyped against human beings :laugh:

If DoA is the only area in the game where you feel like your class is inadequate, you're really not that bad off.

[Ate of DK]

If I'm correct an Assassin can tank in DoA as well as a Warrior does.
So you're not an excluded class in DoA with an Assassin.
I had a team once that finished one part with an Assassin tank, don't know how it is for all 4 area's tho.

[Sable Phoenix]

Hopefully the Finding a Purpose quest doesn't actually require you to fight anything. If not, this is great.

[ChaoticCoyote]

Hopefully the Finding a Purpose quest doesn't actually require you to fight anything. If not, this is great.

The current "Finding a Purpose" quest does involve some fighting. It's not terribly hard; if you've done most of the Realm of Torment quests, you shouldn't have too much trouble. Just watch aggro in the initial area.

Gaining Goren and Norgu have about the same level of difficulty as "Finding a Purpose", and they are both "optional" heros (as is Razah). By "optional", I mean these are heroes you do not need in order to complete the campaign.

I have Razah on one of my characters, and I'm gald ANet made this change (as I said earlier over on Guru).

[liltechdude]

This will be really awesome!

[DarkHaunts]

Greetings,

Here's the latest from the Guild Wars Dev Team!

In listening to players, we know that you have been concerned about the difficulty of acquiring the Ritualist Hero, Razah. In the near future, those who complete Nightfall will have a new way to acquire Razah. And those who already have acquired Razah will be in for a pleasant surprise.

What the designers have done is (1) add a quest to Guild Wars, and (2) change the existing "Finding a Purpose" quest (the 'Get Razah" quest). There are four categories of players in this situation. Simply find which of the categories you belong to and you'll learn about your new options.

(1) I have not started the "Finding a Purpose" quest.
Proceed as you desire once you have beaten Nightfall, but note that there has been a significant change to the quest: you are longer required to pay gemstones to complete it. You can get the "Finding a Purpose" quest from Chaplain Phyratyss in the Gate of Anguish and when you complete it, Razah will join your cadre of Heroes.

(2) I have completed the "Finding a Purpose" quest.
A new quest has been added for you. Take the "Money Back Guarantee" quest as offered by Keeper Shafoss in the Abaddon's Gate outpost. When you complete this quest, you will be rewarded with one of each type of gemstone.

(3) I am in the middle of the "Finding a Purpose quest and I've already paid my gemstones to Keeper Milzesh.
Complete the "Finding a Purpose" quest, and then speak to Keeper Shafoss in the Abaddon's Gate outpost. When you complete the "Money Back Guarantee" quest you'll get one of each gemstone back. Special Note: If you already have paid the gemstone fee but have not completed the "Finding a Purpose" quest, do NOT abandon the quest. If you abandon the quest, you will not be offered the "Money Back Guarantee" quest and will not get a gemstone refund.

(4) I had "Finding a Purpose" on my quest log, but I had not paid the gemstones to Keeper Milzesh and the quest is not on my log any longer.
Due to the change in the gemstone requirement, the "Finding a Purpose" quest has been removed from your log. Simply talk to Chaplain Phyratyss in the Gate of Anguish again to add the revised quest back to your log. You can then complete it without the gemstone fee.
So, in a nutshell, players who have already paid the gemstones for Razah will be unaffected by the change to the "Finding a Purpose" quest, but will have the option to complete the new "Money Back Guarantee" quest. Upon completion they will receive a refund of their one each of the four gemstones. Players who have not paid gemstones simply need to accept the "Finding a Purpose" quest from Chaplain Phyratyss in the Gate of Anguish and complete the quest in order to gain Razah as a hero.

On, and more good news: We believe this update will be live in a couple of weeks.

Hope you like the latest info, and do feel free to share your thoughts in this thread. We'll be reading, as always! :smiley:

Bless you, Gaile!

[Harshateja]

QFT

Using Razah as some sort of ego trip for a few players is no justification for purposely keeping him away from the majority.
I don't mean to sound as though I'm picking on you personally Harshateja (just used your quote as an example), but so many people seem to wonder why others get so upset about him being elite...
Want to know why?
Because no one likes a showoff. Plain and simple.

Having Razah doesn't make you a better player, it just means you're either a masochist, have far too much spare time on your hands, or have tons of imaginary currency at your disposal.

What few people who either made themselves suffer through one of the few truly miserable games levels I've ever seen, or simply used money to get it didn't care about functionality for the most part (as evidenced by some of their previous posts)
They just wanted something to wave in front of the faces of others.
It's no different than IRL when snotty upper-class kids raz on everyone "beneath" them about all their little expensive toys.

And you know what? They don't impress us "lowly have-nots" like they think.
Most of us just think they're on a serious ego trip. And well, aren't they?

Yes, I'm aware that's how the real world works and blah blah....
GW is only a game.
Meant for entertainment purposes.
As I said earlier, purposely locking away content from the majority just to satisfy the selfish few who want to flash their ubet leetness to make themselves feel better is asinine.

Some people actually want a rit hero (any rit hero, as was also mentioned earlier in this thread) for the purpose of *gasp!* actually using him in their party for game-playing purposes, rather than just showing him off.
Amazing isn't it?

Randomly... I was in a PUG once with some guy in FOW armor who kept ctrl-clicking on multiple "uber leet" weapon sets the moment he joined the party.....
He was immideately booted.
Yes indeed, no one likes a showoff...

True, but as I said, I don't care whether you think its cool or not. I want the personal satisfaction of knowing that you know I have it and you don't have it. Secondly, Razah takes 6 - 8 hours to complete - discontinuius game play that is (not even in one go). I have 700 hours on my account - I would hardly call me having too much time to play this game - especially since I'm always on call cause of the new ****ty cRN. Really, if it has no effect on you, whats the problem in giving us who earned Razah the original way 1 skill point (equivalent to 20k experience)?

[JoeKnowMo]

True, but as I said, I don't care whether you think its cool or not. I want the personal satisfaction of knowing that you know I have it and you don't have it. Secondly, Razah takes 6 - 8 hours to complete - discontinuius game play that is (not even in one go).

:soapbox:
1. DoA is boring for most players.
2. The satisfaction of the majority of gamers usually trumps your personal satisfaction and this is just one example. Welcome to capitalism. :laugh:
3. Getting Razah on all characters (8+), if you have all 3 chapters, would mean spending 50+ hours in a terribly designed area which most of us don't want to do.
4. If you had fun getting Razah, then what do you care if he's easily accessible now. How does that diminish the fun you've already had?
5. If you worked to get Razah, it's time to realize that this is a GAME. :wink:
6. There are a lot of other things you can get that the average player can't/won't get. Things such as titles, rare-skinned weapons, expensive armor, pet spider, etc. Note that none of these things give you a gameplay advantage which is one of the core design features of GW.
7. I'd recommend deriving your personal satisfaction from having fun in this game rather than working towards goals that you find tedious. The latter will leave a bitter taste in your mouth if things ever change.

If Anet gave you a cooler skin Razah for getting him the hard way, I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is depriving the majority of players of him just so players like you can feel good about themselves. :rolleyes:

[Harshateja]

:soapbox:
1. DoA is boring for most players.
2. The satisfaction of the majority of gamers usually trumps your personal satisfaction and this is just one example. Welcome to capitalism. :laugh:
3. Getting Razah on all characters (8+), if you have all 3 chapters, would mean spending 50+ hours in a terribly designed area which most of us don't want to do.
4. If you had fun getting Razah, then what do you care if he's easily accessible now. How does that diminish the fun you've already had?
5. If you worked to get Razah, it's time to realize that this is a GAME. :wink:
6. There are a lot of other things you can get that the average player can't/won't get. Things such as titles, rare-skinned weapons, expensive armor, pet spider, etc. Note that none of these things give you a gameplay advantage which is one of the core design features of GW.
7. I'd recommend deriving your personal satisfaction from having fun in this game rather than working towards goals that you find tedious. The latter will leave a bitter taste in your mouth if things ever change.

If Anet gave you a cooler skin Razah for getting him the hard way, I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is depriving the majority of players of him just so players like you can feel good about themselves. :rolleyes:

By that nature, why don't we remove all obstacles in the game to make it more "fun". We could have level 0 baddies in the RoT. Would that be "fun"? Fun is overcoming obstacles in the face of challenge and surviving to tell your story to me. Secondly, capitalism supports my claim of the "newbies" should not have what the troopers have. Thirdly, I specifically said giving the people who earned Razah originally a 20k Experience bonus / 1 Skill Point - not to not let the "casual" player have Razah (at least, not in this thread - its too late at this point for my opinion to be worth any more than a dime of ****.).

[MikesSmikes]

By that nature, why don't we remove all obstacles in the game to make it more "fun". We could have level 0 baddies in the RoT. Would that be "fun"? Fun is overcoming obstacles in the face of challenge and surviving to tell your story to me. Secondly, capitalism supports my claim of the "newbies" should not have what the troopers have. Thirdly, I specifically said giving the people who earned Razah originally a 20k Experience bonus / 1 Skill Point - not to not let the "casual" player have Razah (at least, not in this thread - its too late at this point for my opinion to be worth any more than a dime of ****.).

We have a very good seperation between "gameplay tools/character power" and "vanity items" in Guildwars.

Vanity items that do not affect your actual gameplay or make you more powerful may take grind, but nothing else should.

And while you might argue that having a Ritualist Hero is a vanity item, Razah definitely is much closer to being an actual "gameplay tool" that should be available to everyone. Like all the other tools.

Even playing field, skill mattering more than grind and all , ring a bell ?
Makes me glad to see the Devs remembered or rather reconsidered putting Razah into that category officially too.

You will still have plenty of "obstacles" to keep you busy too if you are that kind of player that requires that. FoW Armor, DoA Weapons Elite Mission rares and greens come to mind.

[halfthought]

By that nature, why don't we remove all obstacles in the game to make it more "fun". We could have level 0 baddies in the RoT. Would that be "fun"? Fun is overcoming obstacles in the face of challenge and surviving to tell your story to me. Secondly, capitalism supports my claim of the "newbies" should not have what the troopers have. Thirdly, I specifically said giving the people who earned Razah originally a 20k Experience bonus / 1 Skill Point - not to not let the "casual" player have Razah (at least, not in this thread - its too late at this point for my opinion to be worth any more than a dime of ****.).

I hope you realize DOA isn't hard. Unless your a tank. If your a tank, sure it requires a bucket load of skill. Otherwise its a bore fest.......I doubt you can call casting SF Glowing gaze with the occasional MS "skill"

Have you beaten the quest "the troubled keepers"? I can assure you, that requires skill. Spamming Sf 10000000 times does not.

Of course you could have just spent a bunch of time farming, and bought the gemstones. Does that make you a better player? Sure, you're probably bound to get really good at farming, but that's a very different statement from being a good player overall.

honestly, 90% of pve consists of farming......:azn:

But obviously, getting razah does not mean your a better pvper or anything :P

my point was that if you had the time to get razah, you would have more time to pve in general. Which probably(hopefully) makes you get better at it.

But of course, this might not be the case. But chances are that person who has the TIME to grind that torment weapon also has the time to play more pve in general probably(hopefully) making him better then some one who does not.

This isn't saying everyone who has gotten razah is better then all of you who don't. Its saying that if someone has the time to get him, he will also have the time to be better at pve. (generally of course). Judging by my reply to harjesheta, I do not think Doa makes you a better pvers, but time generally does.

[Frostlight]

Did someone say capitalism?

Just like in the real world, there are good and bad investments with your time and money. Some with good returns, flat returns or negative returns. Ectos are relatively liquid and low risk. FoW armors retain their value pretty well (though being illiquid). Golds and minipets are liquid but generally give you negative returns over time.

Like a dotbomb stock, Razah is clearly a highly risky and incorrectly priced asset. Despite the hype, the market (players) knew its true, low value and shunned it, and the analysts and media (forums) blasted it. Finally, the issuer (Anet) had to lower the asking price for the target market they had in mind.

Those who got Razah as an elite showoff item now have to write down all the "goodwill" they thought they acquired. They're lucky indeed to get the nominal value of the gemstones back. Now they want to sue for more compensation?

[Harshateja]

We have a very good seperation between "gameplay tools/character power" and "vanity items" in Guildwars.

Vanity items that do not affect your actual gameplay or make you more powerful may take grind, but nothing else should.

And while you might argue that having a Ritualist Hero is a vanity item, Razah definitely is much closer to being an actual "gameplay tool" that should be available to everyone. Like all the other tools.

Even playing field, skill mattering more than grind and all , ring a bell ?
Makes me glad to see the Devs remembered or rather reconsidered putting Razah into that category officially too.

You will still have plenty of "obstacles" to keep you busy too if you are that kind of player that requires that. FoW Armor, DoA Weapons Elite Mission rares and greens come to mind.
Where did I say here that you shouldn't have Razah? I simply said to make the Return the Money quest award 1 skill point in addition to the gems. Remember, to assume makes an *** out of you and me.

[Xerox]

By that nature, why don't we remove all obstacles in the game to make it more "fun". We could have level 0 baddies in the RoT. Would that be "fun"? Fun is overcoming obstacles in the face of challenge and surviving to tell your story to me. Secondly, capitalism supports my claim of the "newbies" should not have what the troopers have. Thirdly, I specifically said giving the people who earned Razah originally a 20k Experience bonus / 1 Skill Point - not to not let the "casual" player have Razah (at least, not in this thread - its too late at this point for my opinion to be worth any more than a dime of ****.).

You know stating an extreme case because you have no point really doesn't prove anything, just proves you have nothing better to say and cannot prove your point. You have yet to understand the core of Guild Wars. Until you understand that GW was built on equality to all players disregarding their amount of time or "hard work" , Your point will be viewed as a void one.

[Harshateja]

You know stating an extreme case because you have no point really doesn't prove anything, just proves you have nothing better to say and cannot prove your point. You have yet to understand the core of Guild Wars. Until you understand that GW was built on equality to all players disregarding their amount of time or "hard work" , Your point will be viewed as a void one.

Actually GW was built up around "hard work"...aka skill. Of course not time, but defeating difficult challenges using strategies and knowledge of how the game works (ala skill in the mmo universe, strategy elsewhere.)

[salaboB]

This isn't saying everyone who has gotten razah is better then all of you who don't. Its saying that if someone has the time to get him, he will also have the time to be better at pve. (generally of course). Judging by my reply to harjesheta, I do not think Doa makes you a better pvers, but time generally does.
Time generally does not affect skill once you've gone past a certain point, in my experience. You either learn how to be effective in GW PvE relatively quickly by being observant, or you never really learn it at all.

[Harshateja]

Time generally does not affect skill once you've gone past a certain point, in my experience. You either learn how to be effective in GW PvE relatively quickly by being observant, or you never really learn it at all.

8 hours isn't much time...like 1/2 the duration of the Nightfall campaign.

[salaboB]

8 hours isn't much time...like 1/2 the duration of the Nightfall campaign.
Do you often pull numbers out of thin air to try to make a point?

Please explain why you chose 8 hours, what it's supposed to mean in relation to my statement, and what you're trying to actually argue for. (Or don't, in which case I still won't have a clue what you're trying to say or why you're trying to say it)

[Harshateja]

Do you often pull numbers out of thin air to try to make a point?

Please explain why you chose 8 hours, what it's supposed to mean in relation to my statement, and what you're trying to actually argue for. (Or don't, in which case I still won't have a clue what you're trying to say or why you're trying to say it)

Go to GWG forum (the builds maybe be on guildwiki too, not positive). All 4 builds are up there with estimated times of completion. Add them up.\

Edit: I believe someone on this site had a way to do it in 6 hours. Let me see if I can pull it up. Though I don't use 6 simply because they would have to be exceptionally good at the game to do it with such efficiency (imo).

[Xerox]

Actually GW was built up around "hard work"...aka skill. Of course not time, but defeating difficult challenges using strategies and knowledge of how the game works (ala skill in the mmo universe, strategy elsewhere.)

Again, go check why Guild Wars is so popular. It is the anti-MMORPG. It rewards Skill Over Time with the fact that any casual player an compete with any hardcore player with the same advantages. That includes Razah, how minor he may be. Where you want to admit it or not Razah was a gameplay advantage which is why he was changed to accommodate all players and not the select few.

[Harshateja]

Again, go check why Guild Wars is so popular. It is the anti-MMORPG. It rewards Skill Over Time with the fact that any casual player an compete with any hardcore player with the same advantages. That includes Razah, how minor he may be. Where you want to admit it or not Razah was a gameplay advantage which is why he was changed to accommodate all players and not the select few.

Amazing, please show me where I said in this thead "No, you can't have Razah." I simply said add a 1 skill point bonus to the refund quest. Might as well set up a macro to respond to every post that quotes my post and says anything that relates to this topic. Meh.:rolleyes:

[salaboB]

Go to GWG forum (the builds maybe be on guildwiki too, not positive). All 4 builds are up there with estimated times of completion. Add them up.\

Edit: I believe someone on this site had a way to do it in 6 hours. Let me see if I can pull it up. Though I don't use 6 simply because they would have to be exceptionally good at the game to do it with such efficiency (imo).
Unfortunately, the time to rush through the game is not indicative in any way of the time that can be expected to be taken learning it.

[Xerox]

Amazing, please show me where I said in this thead "No, you can't have Razah." I simply said add a 1 skill point bonus to the refund quest. Might as well set up a macro to respond to every post that quotes my post and says anything that relates to this topic. Meh.:rolleyes:

Notice how I responded to your post and nothing else. Please show me the post where I stated you saying "You cannot have Razah". All I said is that your view on why GW was built was mostly wrong. Yes they reward skill over time but that doesn't apply in the sense you'd it to. It relates in the fact that all gameplay advantages are open to the casual player and the harder more appealing skins which have "no" gameplay advantage are there for the hardcore player. The harder more appealing skins are the ones that have the challenges and hard work. Notice the trend and why Razah had to be changed?

[Harshateja]

Where you want to admit it or not Razah was a gameplay advantage which is why he was changed to accommodate all players and not the select few.

The bolded part ( the idiom) you used right there is where you claim that I said that. (Its whether btw)

[Xerox]

The bolded part ( the idiom) you used right there is where you claim that I said that. (Its whether btw)

You want to be a smart guy a correct my typos? Sorry if I don't proof read what I post on a community forum. Thats funny, I didn't realize "whether you want to admit it or not" and "You said no one can have Razah but you" have the same meaning...Notice how I gave you two options in my sentence not stating you to be either, I'll give you an A for effort though.

Edit. Oh and btw, with the quote you stated this one could be just as valid showing how you "stated" that a select few should have Razah

want a way to show that I am a better player than the average person

[Harshateja]

You want to be a smart guy a correct my typos? Sorry if I don't proof read what I post on a community forum. Thats funny, I didn't realize "whether you want to admit it or not" and "You said no one can have Razah but you" have the same meaning...Notice how I gave you two options in my sentence not stating you to be either, I'll give you an A for effort though.

Edit. Oh and btw, with the quote you stated this one could be just as valid showing how you "stated" that a select few should have Razah

To the Quote: Yes, thats how I feel. However, taking it out of context, I also noted that my opinion in that means nothing because nothing will change for me, stating that a non-gameplay affecting reward would be sufficient in its place.

To your inability to understand english: That idiom calls the person out, making the rest of the sentence a declarative against the person (ala against their will). You were proving to me that Razah has a gameplay advantage and thus should be available to everyone. Why would you be proving it to me had you not already assumed I was still advocating my previous platform? I can sit here debating semantics with my minor in English and more than likely win.

[salaboB]

To your inability to understand english: That idiom calls the person out, making the rest of the sentence a declarative against the person (ala against their will). You were proving to me that Razah has a gameplay advantage and thus should be available to everyone. Why would you be proving it to me had you not already assumed I was still advocating my previous platform? I can sit here debating semantics with my minor in English and more than likely win.
If you feel it necessary to bring credentials into a forum discussion about how something can be done, you've already lost.

And truthfully, I believe you are in fact misreading his post just as you misread mine. The idiom did not say you didn't want people to have Razah, it said you may not agree that he's a gameplay advantage. (Of course, Xerox's claim that GW is fully built to reward skill over time is sadly untrue as well, but then again this entire discussion is relatively pointless)

[Harshateja]

If you feel it necessary to bring credentials into a forum discussion about how something can be done, you've already lost.


Why? :huh:

[salaboB]

Why? :huh:
Because it means you no longer have a compelling argument of your own and are attempting to win the argument through sheer merit of what you've done in the past. Whether this is true or not, that's what it gets read as and anything you say further is less likely to be seriously thought about once that has occurred.

Who you are online rarely matters for a discussion if your points by themselves can't persuade someone.

[Princess eirika]

Oh Xerox, I'm trying to read your posts ,but I just couldnt help but laugh out loud because your avatar is just so darn cute! :grin:

[The Dark Sisterhood]

Why do you feel the need for a reward, other than a refund of the Gems, surely the reward you have is knowing you are so "leet" that you managed to get Razah the "hard" way.

Or did you buy the Gems?

Or did your 7 team mates do all the work?

Or did you not actually enjoy questing in the DoA?

Personally if I had completed all the quests, got Razah and then found out I would get my Gems back I would be over the moon, but then I have over 350 skill points spare and one more isn't going to be of any use to me.

Anyway, now that I have got characters from my 2nd account through Nighfall, I still plan to figure out how to do DoA with two sets of Heroes safe in the knowledge, like SF, Titan Quests, UW and FOW, that I am only doing it for a challenge.

I already managed to solo for a few Gems as I thought there was no way I would ever get enough Gems to get Razah for all my characters, but now I can spend my time doing something slightly less mind numbing.

[Xerox]

Oh Xerox, I'm trying to read your posts ,but I just couldnt help but laugh out loud because your avatar is just so darn cute! :grin:

Haha I get that from time to time :grin:

Why do you feel the need for a reward, other than a refund of the Gems, surely the reward you have is knowing you are so "leet" that you managed to get Razah the "hard" way.

Or did you buy the Gems?

Or did your 7 team mates do all the work?

Or did you not actually enjoy questing in the DoA?

Personally if I had completed all the quests, got Razah and then found out I would get my Gems back I would be over the moon, but then I have over 350 skill points spare and one more isn't going to be of any use to me.

Anyway, now that I have got characters from my 2nd account through Nighfall, I still plan to figure out how to do DoA with two sets of Heroes safe in the knowledge, like SF, Titan Quests, UW and FOW, that I am only doing it for a challenge.

I already managed to solo for a few Gems as I thought there was no way I would ever get enough Gems to get Razah for all my characters, but now I can spend my time doing something slightly less mind numbing.

QTF

[Princess eirika]

Why do you feel the need for a reward, other than a refund of the Gems, surely the reward you have is knowing you are so "leet" that you managed to get Razah the "hard" way.

Or did you buy the Gems?

Or did your 7 team mates do all the work?

Or did you not actually enjoy questing in the DoA?

Personally if I had completed all the quests, got Razah and then found out I would get my Gems back I would be over the moon, but then I have over 350 skill points spare and one more isn't going to be of any use to me.

Anyway, now that I have got characters from my 2nd account through Nighfall, I still plan to figure out how to do DoA with two sets of Heroes safe in the knowledge, like SF, Titan Quests, UW and FOW, that I am only doing it for a challenge.

I already managed to solo for a few Gems as I thought there was no way I would ever get enough Gems to get Razah for all my characters, but now I can spend my time doing something slightly less mind numbing.

QFT x2 Seriously.

[Lensor]

Yay! :cloud9:

*faints*

A big bunch of :flowers: to Anet for doing the right thing and fixing something that was fatally broken already from the beginning! No gameplay advantage should be available only to the very rich or the ones with the most time to spare. Thanks for listening to the ones who wanted Razah to be available to everyone, and not listening to the ones who wanted him to be just another status symbol. He deserved better than that.

And a nice gesture to refund the ones who already paid the gems.

[Ate of DK]

Thanks for listening to the ones who wanted Razah to be available to everyone, and not listening to the ones who wanted him to be just another status symbol. He deserved better than that.


Yes :laugh:
And also thnx for listening to the majority who wanted Heroes Ascent to be 8v8 instead of 6v6. :flowers:

[JoeKnowMo]

Where did I say here that you shouldn't have Razah? I simply said to make the Return the Money quest award 1 skill point in addition to the gems. Remember, to assume makes an *** out of you and me.

Amazing, please show me where I said in this thead "No, you can't have Razah." I simply said add a 1 skill point bonus to the refund quest. Might as well set up a macro to respond to every post that quotes my post and says anything that relates to this topic. Meh.:rolleyes:

Let me refresh your memory. In response to Xerox's post:

Seriously you should be lucky your even getting your gems back. Its been trends where the early birds don't receive anything back. Instead of spreading your "All Mighty Elitist" words, how you you say a few positive things like "Finally, those casual gamers who wanted Razah can get it". I still don't understand your attitude. Its as if you don't want others to get it so you can show off your Razah as if hes some uber l33t hero.

You replied:

I want a way to show that I am a better player than the average person - whether the other people want to see it or not. Its called ambition.

And here's another post of yours that says it in more detail.

True, but as I said, I don't care whether you think its cool or not. I want the personal satisfaction of knowing that you know I have it and you don't have it. Secondly, Razah takes 6 - 8 hours to complete - discontinuius game play that is (not even in one go). I have 700 hours on my account - I would hardly call me having too much time to play this game - especially since I'm always on call cause of the new ****ty cRN. Really, if it has no effect on you, whats the problem in giving us who earned Razah the original way 1 skill point (equivalent to 20k experience)?

Denying you said things in a forum when it's right there for all to see??? :rolleyes:

Now back to the real reason for your posts. You think Razah should be "worked" for. You worked for him and now you're upset that others don't have to work so hard. Sorry, most of us don't play a game to "work." I'm not saying that everything should be handed to us on a silver platter because that's no fun either. But now getting Razah will actually be fun for most (taking less than 1 hour) instead of the 6-8 hour ordeal that seems to make people bitter.

[Scott the Green]

Internet. Serious business.

On another note, hooray! Now I don't have to farm for the other 3 gemstones I need!

[jouninassasin]

At least now i can get my gems back :D, coffer of whispers!

[Xenrail]

Mission was unexpectedly easy. Completed it in 5 minutes.