About Togo

[jouninassasin]

Not sure if this is in the right forum, or this had already been discussed but...why is it such a huge deal togo dies? No one bothers to ressurect him?

[Quintus Antonius]

Not Chosen = No Rez. Every person who is resurrected in the game is a Chosen, with the exceptions of non-human creatures, and since we don't know about their physiology, who knows how it works for them.

And even if I'm proven wrong about that, and I may be, Togo's spirit seemed to be a bit different. Even though he was tainted by Abaddon (through Shiro) he manages to avoid the Realm of Torment. His death was necessary to stop Shiro, resurrection may have made Shiro invincible again. Either that, or the Emissaries felt it was his time and didn't allow him to be resurrected.

[Troal]

Togo's death was part of Shiro's ritual. Perhaps it's ritualistic nature somehow prevents the resurrection of Togo.

[Shinigami God]

Quintus basically covered all possible explanations, although the Chosen thing sounds like a pretty cool one that I haven't heard before. However, for gameplay's sake, I think that Anet defies that rule. While the Tyrian and maybe even the Canthan henchmen could be "chosen", I find it hard to believe that the early henchmen of Nightfall who stayed in Istan could have the same status. Anyway, I think that resurrection is more of a gameplay function than a part of the lore. I personally like to think that our characters just lose consciousness when they "die", and the resurrection restores them to their normal state. Ever notice that our characters still have a breathing cloud in the Shiverpeaks after they're dead? :P

[Quintus Antonius]

Resurrection tends to be one of those things that skirts the line between "lore" and "game mechanic" also. It is very blurry in terms of what kind of resurrection constitutes lore and what doesn't. It looks like the Envoys (I called them the Emissaries before, opps) determine if you can be rezzed or not. If it isn't your time, you can be rezzed, if they want you, you can't be.

[Denji]

One issue I'm seeing with the idea of only Chosen being ressurectable in Togo's case: didn't he go through the Closer to the Stars ritual? I'd always assumed that was the Canthan equivalent of ascention. I'd always assumed it had something to do with the state of the corpse for storyline purposes, or the period of time the body was left there.

[Arkhan The Black]

What I really wanna know is how does a guy like Togo that only know five skills get to be headmaster of the Shing Jea monastery?

[Quintus Antonius]

He was the brother of the Emperor.

[ShadowReapr]

Tch.

I'm going with the envoy-theory. It can be assumed that their terms of forced-employment is that they may not interject with whatever idea of "fate" can be construed from the game - Devona's father's story attempts to explain that with no Priests to resurrect, their souls are claimed and they officially die. Because the battle must take place, the envoys may only step in when death is absolute - lest their souls wither, wander or get in some sort of trouble.

Heck, no evidence to suggest it, but perhaps the souls remain in the body until they accept their death - once the dead person sensed the Priests dying, they gave up, their soul leaving their body. Unlikely perhaps, but whatever. Something to ponder on, I guess.

When Shiro slays us, the Envoys suggest that it is not our time - I doubt it was their way of being kind to us, or even their desire to use us, but in fact the plain, naked truth. I don't think it's any case of timelines, because it's a tad predictable, but rather how the realms work. This remarkably well ties into the Realm of Torment, particularly how anyone tainted with the touch of Abaddon cannot leave the RoT. Quarantine, or physical limitation?

Our death was unnatural, and therefore it had to be reversed. Seems very much plot-holey, since all the Afflicted could not return to life (or perhaps they did, in their inhumane state). The task of envoys is to keep the forces of life and death in check. The envoys tell us that Shiro risks destroying everything, ruining the balance of the universe. We haven't really been introduced to any concept of universal balance in the series, except for the Mists. There's too much that we don't know to fully determine how life, death, spirits and all that malarkey works in GW.

As for Togo... You can look at it nicely, like the envoys protected him, perhaps on the behalf of the Gods. Or, you can look at it cruelly, because the envoys knew fully well that Shiro being summoned to flesh would be the only way he could be defeaten by us. Either way, his body was forfeit, and it's not as if he's done badly as a spirit.

[Barinthus]

Well, based on the dialogue of the Envoys, my impression was that the only reason they rezzed us is to use us as pawns against Shiro. If we refused to help, I am under the impression they can undo our rez.

There's no script of the dialogue in wiki so I will check it out

[Barinthus]

Here's the dialogue from Vizunah Square. Italics and bolds are mine

Messenger Vetaura: "We cannot stand by while Shiro continues to meddle in the affairs of the mortal."
Emissary Heleyne: "His duty is to shepherd the newly dead to the gates of the Mists."
Emissary Heleyne: "He's shirking his responsibility as an Envoy."
Courier Torivos: "For every disembodied spirit that he lets loose here in the mortal realm, the delicate equilibrium between worlds tips further out of balance."
Courier Torivos: "Whatever his plan is, it must be stopped."
Herald Demrikov: "But how? We are only Envoys ourselves. We cannot fight Shiro."
Emissary Heleyne: "We can combat Shiro by acting like Shiro."

Players are then rezzed


Messenger Vetaura: "We are the Envoys to the next world."
Messenger Vetaura: "The shepherds who guide the newly departed to Eternal Paradise within the Mists."
Messenger Vetaura: "We were sent here to show you the path to the afterlife."
Herald Demrikov: "But it's not your time. We will not guide you today."
Courier Torivos: "We return you your departed spirits."
Courier Torivos: "We give back to you the gift of life."
Emissary Heleyne: "But it comes with a price."
Herald Demrikov: "In return, we ask your help in defeating Shiro."
Messenger Vetaura: "Seek out Suun, the Oracle of the Mists."
Messenger Vetaura: "He will show you how to become Weh no Su, Closer to the Stars."
Master Togo: "Ah, Weh no Su. The Celestial test. Mhenlo and I know it well."
Player: "I do not understand. Why do you wish us to pass this test?."
Courier Torivos: "Spirits in this realm can hide themselves from the view of the mortals"
Courier Torivos: "Until you have become Closer to the Stars, you will not be able to see Shiro, let alone fight him."
Player: "I see."
Messenger Vetaura: "We are counting on you to help us return the balance that Shiro has undone."
Messenger Vetaura: "We will be watching."

It appears to me that the Envoys seem to have some kind of flexibility over whom they are to take to the Paradise or allow to live. They were going to take us to the Paradise but decided to act like Shiro and use us as their pawns in order to stop Shiro.

[Timolas]

In regards to resurrection, perhaps the state of the body has something to do with it. If a guy is mashed into pulp, resurrection would entail some kind of weird regeneration, which is a bit far fetched.
In Togo's case, Shiro strikes at his head, which means he was probably near decapitated. Resurrection could be pretty much healing the wound and enabling the body to function again, but in Togo's case, the wound would be severe and insane enough to be irreversible.
Or I could be totally wrong, which is most likely the case. Nonetheless it's an altenative.

[Quintus Antonius]

I saw something interesting in 8-Bit Theater the other day. White Mage was talking about how she can't heal incest (you'd have to read the comic to understand), but it led to a conversation with Black Mage on the dynamics of White Magic (healing). Healing magic restores "balance" to the body.

In the case of Togo, I believe he cannot be resurrected because, quite literally, Shiro uses his soul for his own nefarious purposes. It is only after we defeat Shiro that Togo's soul can be returned.

Perhaps "fate" and "destiny" play some role as well, or maybe there is a timeframe. I also agree that if someone were mashed into a pulp, they probably couldn't heal. But then again, we have our dead bodies made into minions, so there is obviously some power of restoration in resurrection.

[Shuuda]

Well, based on the dialogue of the Envoys, my impression was that the only reason they rezzed us is to use us as pawns against Shiro. If we refused to help, I am under the impression they can undo our rez.

There's no script of the dialogue in wiki so I will check it out

Wow, so they just used Unyielding Aura on everyone.
Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Karuro]

Even though he was tainted by Abaddon (through Shiro) he manages to avoid the Realm of Torment. His death was necessary to stop Shiro, resurrection may have made Shiro invincible again. Either that, or the Emissaries felt it was his time and didn't allow him to be resurrected.
Same story goes for Rurik. He was animated by The Lich, yet not tainted.
Maybe an off-topic question as my memory is a bit fuzzy, but did we get tainted during Nightfall and because of that, the Vortex sucked us in?
If we weren't tainted, it might be yet another Chosen/Any Ascenion-like thing going on (As you giving a theory about Togo's soul being used, like Rurik's also was).