improved / expanded crafting

[tvalentijn]

I'd like to see more development with crafting. Right now, whatever you pick up you sell because there is a limit to the armor and weapons you can use.

I would like to see a system where you gain crafting experience and the more experience you have, the better weapons / armor you create.

I'd also like to see more variety in crafting. You should be able to experiment adding all kind if items to improve crafted weapons' stats.

Finally, I'd like the opportunity to add skills to crafted weapons to improve the weapons stats. Maybe you should be allowed only to add elite skills to weapons. And then when you added a skill - or an elite skill - you have to go out and cap it again for you to use in combat (or for your next crafted weapon).

[raspberry jam]

More mods on weapons? Yes please.

Capping elite skills over and over? Eh no

[Zsig]

I think the best way to introduce crafting in the game is by having a dedicated profession for that kind of stuff, like an Artisan profession.

So that, in order for you to craft anything you'd need to sacrifice fighting powers, simply because you chose to be able to craft. Of course, the crafter wouldn't need to be exceptionally useless he could be able to make constructs, Imbue other's weapons and armors in battle (much like Rit's Weapon Spells), making them not a really strong and auto-suficient but still providing benefits, that you could "optimize" with the secondary profession.

But, after saying that i have to say it couldn't work for GW given the easiness it is to change professions "on the fly". Which would probably go against their purpose, making it a bad option for primary ones, that assuming in GW2 changing secondary would be as easy as it is in GW1.

"Oh hold on a sec, lemme change my secondary to Artisan to upgrade my armor, then I change back and we're good to go..."

I think I'm not in favor for side professions, (like presented in WoW or LotR and many others) where you have your main fighting profession and then separate trading skills into optional things (that in the end are not really optional).

Regarding weapon mods where you have, say, a fiery bow and it should show it up when you wield the weapon, and even on arrows as you fire them, I guess that's pretty much reasonable.

The elite stuff, hum, i don't know, I once suggested a long time ago, how would Equipment Skills affect the game, like for example, an unique Sword could have it's own a unique skill that you could bring on your skill bar and is active as long as you wield the item...

...now storing an elite skill inside a weapon seems a bit weird. Could you elaborate a bit more on that?

[Skyy High]

You want to introduce a profession that everyone wants to have one of, but no one wants to party up with (read: drag along) when they're not playing theirs, because it's gimped compared to other classes in combat to make up for its crafting skills? That's just horrendous.

[Zsig]

You want to introduce a profession that everyone wants to have one of, but no one wants to party up with (read: drag along) when they're not playing theirs, because it's gimped compared to other classes in combat to make up for its crafting skills? That's just horrendous.

Yeah, i know, it's horrendous. I did mention it wouldn't work, not sure if you read it.

Anyway, the idea to balance utility with combat has been tried lots of times before and it always failed (if i'm not mistaken, Lineage has a dedicated crafter profession). And it will keep failing, because that's an idea that only works in theory.

Although, in GW we have the primary/secondary format, which could allow for some interesting combinations, and maybe one could balance the fighting capabilities (or lack of them) using the secondary class as a means to balance that. But it would probably take a lot of effort to make it work, and in the end might not even be worth it.

[Windw]

Maybe you could customize your own armour and weapons putting the dye exactly where you want it.

[Aiiane]

Anyway, the idea to balance utility with combat has been tried lots of times before and it always failed (if i'm not mistaken, Lineage has a dedicated crafter profession). And it will keep failing, because that's an idea that only works in theory.

Lineage has a dedicated crafter class.... that everyone wants to have but no one wants to level.

In fact, Lineage is a great example of how poorly dedicated crafting classes work.

[tvalentijn]

Every character should be able to craft and it should not affect your 'normal' attribute points, so it would not affect normal game play. I was thinking more towards a crafting experience level, sort of like the EoTN skills grow more powerful the higher you get on the title tracks. The more you craft the more experience you have and the better weapons/armor you craft.

To add elite skills to crafted items could be straightforward. If you add a Warrior elite skill (for instance Cleave) to an axe, the axe would be upgraded with a certain aspect of Cleave. But then you have to go cap Cleave again if you want to use it in your skill bar. You could add Word Of Healing to an axe as well, giving some kind of healing mod to the axe. This would give some more crafting possibilities and give someone a real opportunity to make unique and valuable weapons that they can use or even sell.

[Ktahdn]

I'd like to see a Craftsman class, mainly because I'd rather spend my time making things than killing monsters. I kill monsters in Guild Wars because that's necessary for the exploration that is the real reason I play; if I were offered the chance to learn crafting and then offering what I make to other players, I would at least try it.

To make it work you'd probably have to commit a character to the Craftsman position. They could probably learn some defensive skills--necessary against thieves and such--but most of their attributes would be in "patience" and "design" and "feel-how" (for lack of a better term, I'll use Colin Fletcher's). Their career path would be much different from that of the typical GW character. Instead of killing things and doing quests, the Craftsman would have some other way to advance the career.

The fact that World of Warcraft has craftspeople is the reason I keep thinking about trying that game. I have no idea how much fun it would really be, but it seems an interesting idea.

[Vidar Anahdi]

I'm curious, what with all this discussion about having a crafting class or title track, how much do you want to be spending your time grinding and farming for materials (or in the original suggestion, skills too)?

I know that some people like to just go out and kill the same monster, or group of monsters, over and over again; but, personally, I'm not sure I'd enjoy GW if I had to do a lot of that type of gameplay. In GW, if I want to go out and farm and grind for stuff I can do that, but it's not a requirement. It's just that from what I've seen in other games that have crafting type professions, it introduces a lot more farming and grinding requirements to the game.

[drox]

the crafter class in lineage2 isnt all that bad, i used to play one and have lead many PvE parties. dorfs in that game are really good for tanking imo mostly due to their high HP. sure in PvP a dorf is dead before you can type "dont kill the lil dorfie".

i have always mist two things in guildwars.
1= a crafter class
2= private stores (instead of spamming the trade chat)

crafting in gw is pretty crap if you ask me. i have stacks of mats in my vault but theres no use for them really once you have your final armor.

what i also would like to see in GW2 is that you can somehow de-customize weapons (perhaps a seal/unseal system as in L2) that lets you benefit all the power of the weapon but still let it be tradeble.
also i would like to be able to sell armors that i have outgrown, and i dont mean to merchants.

[Zsig]

I know that some people like to just go out and kill the same monster, or group of monsters, over and over again; but, personally, I'm not sure I'd enjoy GW if I had to do a lot of that type of gameplay. In GW, if I want to go out and farm and grind for stuff I can do that, but it's not a requirement. It's just that from what I've seen in other games that have crafting type professions, it introduces a lot more farming and grinding requirements to the game.
Yes, exactly. Even though it does seem like an "option". In the end, the average income of players and the cost of high end stuff is balance on the fact that you have the "option" to grind for materials/crafted items. Thus forcing you to do such things.

I'd like to see a Craftsman class, mainly because I'd rather spend my time making things than killing monsters. I kill monsters in Guild Wars because that's necessary for the exploration that is the real reason I play; if I were offered the chance to learn crafting and then offering what I make to other players, I would at least try it.
What you're missing there, is that in GW (and GW2) we have a story arc to follow (in GW2 it'll be several smaller Story Arcs), and in such stories, we are heroes, in the end of the day we save the world. If you're filling the role of craftsman, you'll basicly be taking the place of NPCs.


Lineage has a dedicated crafter class.... that everyone wants to have but no one wants to level.
Yeah, I remember it now. I tried a dwarf for about 30 minutes, couldn't kill a damn wolf.
But there are ways to make it work, just requires a lot of time and effort to think about alternatives and ways to balance it around the others.

[raspberry jam]

I'm curious, what with all this discussion about having a crafting class or title track, how much do you want to be spending your time grinding and farming for materials (or in the original suggestion, skills too)?Speaking for myself personally I'd say zero seconds. Well, if you count skills too, getting them once would be ok.

[Ktahdn]

I know people who enjoy farming, and have circuits they run regularly. To them it's a kind of meditation. We tease each other about it, as I'm no farmer. If intensive farming were required to be a crafter then I wouldn't bother. (As an aside, I have no interest in custom or "15K" armor for my characters. I've only bought one set of maximum armor and that was standard Elonian for my Dervish. The others use what they pick up or trade for with collectors.)

There should be some other way to do it. To start with the crafter would, perhaps, go out and find raw materials: trees, animals, plants for dyes. They might take out loans for materials too, and then pay them back through sales. That may be too much like the real world, though.

It just seems to me that people clever enough to come up with all the other ideas in this game ought to be able to add a building element to the game. It might not be worth their effort due to low participation, but we'll never know unless someone tries.

I know about the story in Guild Wars, and that's one of the reasons I play. Why couldn't a crafter class participate in the story? Somebody has to be making all that hardware the monsters drop. Maybe it could be a temporary thing: you could go on a Blacksmith quest, helping the smith forge a weapon and after that's done you'd get a custom weapon.

[Vidar Anahdi]

Thinking about this more, what might be interesting is an optional tertiary profession for crafting.

I can't see myself getting behind a primary crafter profession, but something more minor that anybody can take on if they want to might provide an interesting feature to the game. Ideally, though, this tertiary profession would be something beyond the two primary professions that a player already chooses in developing their character. The crafting profession could be something along the lines of an extra skill that you get after completing a series of quests or something. When you do have it, you can use materials to craft things like consumables or weapon mods. Nothing that will overpower the party or player, but which would provide temporary "buffs" -- like the 30 minute benefits from current consumables, or 10 minute buffs from things like cupcakes, etc.

This could be useful in a particularly tough zone or dungeon, for example. You have a bunch of white items that you can salvage for materials and then craft a quick buff on the fly for the team to finish a boss fight or something.

Granted, this would alter the economy in a way that players who are interested in farming and grinding could take on more crafting roles, but then anybody could as well, if they didn't want to pay the prices that the market set for these types of cons or upgrades. Still, it would be a fairly steady flow for the economy, since the items would be used and spent, requiring more materials and resources to craft them.

The other potential downside would be ANet having to balance this profession and what it's able to produce. There would obviously be people trying to control the market, but beyond that there would be the use of these types of buffs to run characters through lower level quests or missions, which could be a problem for people who want to experience the storyline and gameplay at those lower levels as it was designed. i.e. people excluded from parties because they don't want to run in a cons group, or because they don't have cons to use for the group.

For more prestige items, like armor and weapons, though, I don't think I'd like to see a person able to craft this type of item. The elite armors were always to show that a character had achieved a certain point in the game, and had the resources to purchase these types of status symbols. Granted, that's something that always changes a little as the game matures and more people have made it through the game -- i.e. the proliferation of Obsidian Armor wearing Elementalist clones -- but I think I still prefer to have to work a character through to a point in the game to be able to purchase the armors I'd like to see them wearing, instead of just hanging out in a town and buying them from someone who can craft them.

[Math Person]

I think a crafting system similar to the ones in WoW, LotRO, Runescape and several other MMO's would be wonderful. However, I don't think you should have a specific class that could do this because that would limit who would be able to craft. I think a crafting system is very similar to farming in that respect. Some people enjoy the experience of going around gathering materials and crafting weapons and armor. I think this aspect of the game is very important for people who don't want to level all the time. The aspect of crafting is something that Anet can take a couple of tips from games like WoW, LotRO, and Runescape. Although it might seem a bit grindy, the system of crafting still has to exist for people who enjoy it, even if you don't want to go grind. For those of you that want to craft without grinding, then Anet can try to make some of the materials droppable from the common mob.

<off topic>
Note: I feel this way about the auction house as well. You may not need it, but it's still important for an MMO to function these days.

[iifa]

totally against anything that pulls the game away from what it originally intended.
craft/highly cuz-able toon..
all are just a waste of effert...
GW just need to focus on the balance of it's PvE,PvP and it's style..
everything else just adds more grinding to it.

GW should be a fast game.. where you get get in.. play a around of something and get out...

there are plently of grinding games out there.. please don't add another one..

[raspberry jam]

totally against anything that pulls the game away from what it originally intended.
craft/highly cuz-able toon..
all are just a waste of effert...
GW just need to focus on the balance of it's PvE,PvP and it's style..
everything else just adds more grinding to it.

GW should be a fast game.. where you get get in.. play a around of something and get out...

there are plently of grinding games out there.. please don't add another one..QFT .

[Zsig]

totally against anything that pulls the game away from what it originally intended.
craft/highly cuz-able toon..
all are just a waste of effert...
GW just need to focus on the balance of it's PvE,PvP and it's style..
everything else just adds more grinding to it.

GW should be a fast game.. where you get get in.. play a around of something and get out...

there are plently of grinding games out there.. please don't add another one..

Thx for reminding me that. I'll second the QFT.

Not that i think that Crafting is generally a bad idea, just more like bad implemented, but in reality, it's true that it goes against GW's nature. So yeah, no crafting.

[uifhwfuiwehuifwehuifqwegh]

totally against anything that pulls the game away from what it originally intended.
craft/highly cuz-able toon..
all are just a waste of effert...
GW just need to focus on the balance of it's PvE,PvP and it's style..
everything else just adds more grinding to it.

GW should be a fast game.. where you get get in.. play a around of something and get out...

there are plently of grinding games out there.. please don't add another one..
because if its there u have 2 do it and cant ignore it rite? guild wars is already a grindan game, look at title and rank man

[glorentson]

I would love for their to be a crafter class.
Most of you are turned off my the fact that in GW1 the armor is personalized for you, but if they were to add a crafter class it probably wouldnt be.
I think though, aside from the crafting, that shops, and personal traders would be nice.