Thought Experiments

[nudge]

Have not been playing GW of late. But did find these notes re GW2 I made some time ago. These are "though experiments". That is they are not complete proposals. Just starting points for proposals. Enjoy.


(1) Characters do not gain experience by vanquishing the mindless hordes, but only by progressing the plot line. On reaching the end game they reach their maximum potential (like an empty jug).

Example: If maximum level grants 200 attribute points, and there are 40 missions on the way, then each mission grants 5 attribute points. The concept of XP can be removed from the game.


(2) Quests unlock the potential to spend attribute points in the appropriate attribute lines. As a necromancer undertakes the quests appropriate for her class, it raises the maximum potential levels to which her attribute lines may be raised. For example, if she undertakes all core necromancer quests, and all the specific curses quest chains, then she has the potential to raise any of her necromantic attribute lines to 9, and the potential to raise her curses attribute line to 12.


(3) Where possible eliminate numbers from the game. Example: The user is presented with sliders for spending attributes across attribute lines. Example: Spell description should not contain numbers but instead descriptions such as "a quick casting moderate heal".


(4) Classes fluid, not fixed. An vengefully young man takes up his fathers sword. The darkness grows with, and swordsmanship is combined with necromancy. There are those to guide him on his path, to teach him the arts when he is ready. There are no levels, no names, no numbers. She picks flowers, potions are brewed, a hedge witch, or a druidess perhaps, but never is her class named or set.


(5) A more complete magic system.

Generating
* Wood feeds Fire;
* Fire creates Earth (ash);
* Earth bears Metal;
* Metal collects Water and
* Water nourishes Wood.
Overcoming
* wood parts earth;
* earth absorbs water;
* water quenches fire;
* fire melts metal and
* metal chops wood

Druid casts "entangling roots" on target. Elementalist casts "Immolate" at target. The roots burn, extending the time and intensity (wood feeds fire).


(6) Drops are fixed. Crafting allows any feature. Crafting is tied to rank. By progressing you standing with groups, grants you access to their crafters, who will will adapt you weapons. The higher you rank, the better the crafter you are allowed to see.

[Gmr Leon]

I actually like the basic ideas you have laid out, for the most part, except the "leveling" idea is a bit iffy. Although it would work under the quest chain idea, if I understood that properly.

[Ace Bear]

Number 1 and 2 is a unique way to look at the level system and attribute system. Question though, once the storyline is done and the quests done, what then? Its the same problem we have now, the character itself can't show any real way of improvement after beating the game. Titles don't mean jack anymore because of the fact of it not showing skill, titles don't give any real in-game rewards when completed so a lot of people like myself don't care about them.

Number 3 I think makes the game less technical and more about mashing the button then determining what is the most effective skill combination.

Number 4 is...cool in theory but I could not even imagine how to code it. There would have to be defined classes at one point, eventually.

I would support a magic system similar to Number 5 as long as it isn't the same. Sorry man but it sounds to Korean MMO/Japanese Strategy game for me.

Number 6 is fine with me as long as you don't tie the rank into any skills outside crafting and it is only obtained through crafting.

[Skyy High]

1 - sure
2 - cool
3 - boo. In case you haven't noticed, players like to min-max everything. If the devs didn't put numbers in the game, people would just do research on every spell at every attribute level and figure out exactly how much damage/healing they did, or what durations hexes/enchants had, etc. Can't have a hardcore PvP system without severe number crunching; if you don't put it in the game, you just put it on the players. See WoW and all the add-ons to deal with threat levels and such.

4 - Way too focused on RP here; it's not feasible for a balanced game to have classes be all over the place, pick-up-as-you-go-along kind of things. This can be done with single-player RPGs (Fable, I believe, though I've never played it so I could be wrong) but it's just not appealing to a wide enough audience to be so general with such basic game mechanics.

5- Meh. Cool, but I worry about having every spell your teammates cast potentially screwing up your own spells. No one likes the guy with [Iron Mist], no matter how RP-cool the spell is.

6- I don't get the difference with the current system we have now (a la GW:EN), but you haven't played in a while so you may not know that. Hint: it's not received well, and it's only tied to elite armor and consumables, and some weapon crafters.

[Gmr Leon]

To sort of expand on his spell-casting idea..It would be better to introduce certain skills or spells that actually note that you can sync the skill with another. We have that now, but it should be introduced in such a way to encourage duos, trios, full parties, etc.

Think Chrono Trigger. That game had an excellent system of doing it, but it would be even more interesting introduced and adapted to the online playing field. In my mind it would give it a more "epic" feel as some might say.

For example, a Ranger could have a skill that combines mud and dry leaves, he throws it on the enemy and an Elementalist or another Ranger lights them aflame. Through this combination the fire is extended, similar to his wood example.

Assassins should, in my mind, be able to trip an opponent, but not instantly be able to attack them. Instead they should throw their daggers down into the enemy's legs/feet and another Assassin run up to him and attack. This dagger embedded into the enemy could then act as a lightning rod for Elementalist lightning attacks.

Heck, the lightning could be used to pull the dagger's out and slash the enemy or return them to the Assassin for all I know.

Then again I'm the same person who thinks a Warrior's sword, when gashing the opponent, should get stuck in the enemy. Dependent entirely on how much they put into the Strength attribute.

On 4, I do agree with Sky, it's an awesome idea, but more suited to a single player game. Games like Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fable do it excellently, for instance.

...I'm still thinking of the awesomeness that they could put in with the spell system proposed. Well, basically proposed, not completely.

[raspberry jam]

(1) Characters do not gain experience by vanquishing the mindless hordes, but only by progressing the plot line. On reaching the end game they reach their maximum potential (like an empty jug).

Example: If maximum level grants 200 attribute points, and there are 40 missions on the way, then each mission grants 5 attribute points. The concept of XP can be removed from the game.I sort of like this idea, sort of not. The exact details can be shifted around a bit, but generally, character progression should be tied to quests and storyline, not how much you kill, sure. But I am also a big fan of reaching your power cap early (sort of like in Nightfall). Hitting max after say 1/5 of the game sounds much better to me, because then 80% of the world will still be made for your character to play in once you reach the end of the storyline. This, in turn, means that you can actually distribute the endgame over the entire game world, increasing environment diversity.

(2) Quests unlock the potential to spend attribute points in the appropriate attribute lines. As a necromancer undertakes the quests appropriate for her class, it raises the maximum potential levels to which her attribute lines may be raised. For example, if she undertakes all core necromancer quests, and all the specific curses quest chains, then she has the potential to raise any of her necromantic attribute lines to 9, and the potential to raise her curses attribute line to 12.Depending on how it's done, could be very cool or could be very tedious. But I like the idea. :grin: I also think that these quests should be skill quests.

(3) Where possible eliminate numbers from the game. Example: The user is presented with sliders for spending attributes across attribute lines. Example: Spell description should not contain numbers but instead descriptions such as "a quick casting moderate heal".At first, this sounds like a good idea. However (at least if you have savable build templates, which is an idea that I don't think ANet will drop), within two weeks, you'd see sites like GuildWiki listing as exactly as possible every single number in the game anyway. With the magic of uncertainty gone, all you have is a system that makes it more annoying for people who do care about numbers to get what they want.

(4) Classes fluid, not fixed. An vengefully young man takes up his fathers sword. The darkness grows with, and swordsmanship is combined with necromancy. There are those to guide him on his path, to teach him the arts when he is ready. There are no levels, no names, no numbers. She picks flowers, potions are brewed, a hedge witch, or a druidess perhaps, but never is her class named or set.Then how does she know her capabilities? This is a good idea, but especially in a multiplayer online game it has to be done exactly right, or it will fail massively.
Not to mention that it could be tricky to create a PvP character, supposedly fully maxed out, in this system.

(5) A more complete magic system.This sounds really cool if it is adapted to the current system of elements (for example there is no air magic in your suggestion).

(6) Drops are fixed. Crafting allows any feature. Crafting is tied to rank. By progressing you standing with groups, grants you access to their crafters, who will will adapt you weapons. The higher you rank, the better the crafter you are allowed to see.This is a horrible suggestion.

[Akirai Annuvil]

(1)
Have the max level be reached before the end of the game. At latest halfway through, at earliest, 15% of the way.
(2)
This suggestion seems incompatible with (4). Regardless, no. It's an unnecesarry artificial limitation which ultimately requires the user to do too much to have their character ready at max power.
(3)
This suggestion won't ever work - the game calculates things using numbers. Gamers will find out these numbers and will upload them on a wiki. Ultimately, nothing will change. Furthermore, it makes skill balancing a pain.
(4)
No. I cannot imagine balance actually being achieved in such a game.
(5)
The idea is cool but ultimately seems unpractical. Plus again, balancing this seems an incredible pain in the ***.
(6)
Why would you add a form of grind?

In short: (1) possible, don't find it superior to just leveling but not inferior either.
(2), (3), (4), (5) and (6) no as they're incredibly impractical, especially in regards to balancing or promote grind.

[Gmr Leon]

5, if done correctly, shouldn't be that hard to balance. I had a brain blitzkrieg shortly after my post in which I wrote down a few ideas that could possibly be done in such a system. Several of the ideas I had, while not thinking it, were rather balanced even without intending it.

[BrotherGrimm]

1-5 have potential.

6 is the exact opposite of any game I want to play.