Skill/spell ideas on how they could interact with environment.

[Gmr Leon]

Some of these, perhaps all, are probably impossible and just some nice ideas for GW2.

When in a party, if a player is about to use a skill that can be used in sync with another, it is announced via text in the center of the screen. If another player in the party has a skill that can be used to sync with it, they now know that they could use it, and which enemy to attack. A type of attack would then be necessary to make this system even more flexible, embed. This would be a type of attack that would, simply, embed your weapon into the opponent and then would cause an announcement to appear for player's with skills or spells that could be in accordance with the now embedded weapon. The player who, most likely was a Warrior or Assassin or Dervish, could then use an attack that would shove the weapon in deeper for better effect or have the ability to pull it out.

The idea would be, in the case of a melee-character, to cool your weapon down, so that when it enters the enemy body it would be stuck moreso than a warmer weapon. When you pull the weapon out of the enemy, it causes suction, which would in turn create more damage to the enemy. In other words an Elementalist would use a Water Magic spell to freeze the weapon. However, with this being the case, the weapon would take longer to pull out of the enemy and would create a larger opening for interruption, as such another Elementalist could use the weapon as a lightning rod. Add in the frozen water, and it's attack is amplified even more than if it were not frosty, this lightning would not only damage the enemy, but melt off the ice on the sword making it easier to remove from the enemy.

Arrows, could also get stuck in the enemy's body, creating an easy fuel for Fire Magic attacks or Air Magic attacks. However, there would need to be a max number of arrows that would get stuck in the body and any new arrows would just replace the old, but you would still see constant damage like it is now. Any arrows that miss, get stuck in the ground, and can be set aflame by a Fire Magic area of effect skill. This would be similar to the traps of the present game. Possibly they could be intentionally shot into the ground to lay out a trap for incoming enemies.

Another idea brought on by this, would be for melee-professions to lay out weapons. Either the ones they're using or trash ones that they've gotten along the way, could be dropped on the ground in strategic points, then they could be used to conduct the lightning attacks of an Elementalist setting up an electrical barrier against enemies. Depending on how the game works, this could be used to help rest during a long run through wherever.

Also, since I've been going on an Elementalist roll here, in the case of Necromancer skills like Putrid Bile, arrows shot at the enemy should or could cause their effects to trigger sooner than usual. A sort of popping of the boils on their flesh, if you will. Another thought, if your allies are bleeding, that should act as more blood sacrifice for skills that require it, and to a limited point, increase the damage of the skills. Only, if your allies are bleeding. Necromancers could also use other conditions for the better or worse, rather than just using them in an offensive manner.

In addition to that bleeding idea, the Necromancer's blood sacrifice would be decreased, an arrow of your allies' bleeding degen would be decreased, and the damage of the skill that requires the sacrifice being used would be increased. This is a sort of balancing act so that you cannot abuse the bleeding of your allies.

Several additional ideas I had after this.

Elementalists are known for manipulating the elements and all that wonderful stuff, but they do need to train their spells. In other words, have random environmental events happen during travels that would ensure a Ranger's survival abilities, a Dervish's quick swath of the scythe, and an Elementalist's manipulative abilities would be seen.

Example: A rockslide is occurring on the side of a mountain, you'll sustain major damage and crippling if hit by it. Perhaps you will even fall down the mountain. A Dervish could attack the rocks as they fall, splitting them and lessening the damage, a Ranger would get a sudden sense and be able to inform those with him/her to wait, and an Elementalist could create a wall of stone to prevent them from hitting those with him/her. That or just divert them away from the group.

It could even be that a Necromancer uses his minions to sustain the damage for the team.

Similar scenarios or events that could occur would be mudslide/avalanche/etc. After all, it is called Player versus Environment.

Just a few ideas I had during a brain blitzkrieg when I thought of the possibilities of a spell system that has the spells affected by the situation you're in. Which, if it is not known, was mentioned in a PC Gamer article awhile back.

[Dusklore]

Some of these, perhaps all, are probably impossible and just some nice ideas for GW2.

When in a party, if a player is about to use a skill that can be used in sync with another, it is announced via text in the center of the screen. If another player in the party has a skill that can be used to sync with it, they now know that they could use it, and which enemy to attack. A type of attack would then be necessary to make this system even more flexible, embed. This would be a type of attack that would, simply, embed your weapon into the opponent and then would cause an announcement to appear for player's with skills or spells that could be in accordance with the now embedded weapon. The player who, most likely was a Warrior or Assassin or Dervish, could then use an attack that would shove the weapon in deeper for better effect or have the ability to pull it out.

The idea would be, in the case of a melee-character, to cool your weapon down, so that when it enters the enemy body it would be stuck moreso than a warmer weapon. When you pull the weapon out of the enemy, it causes suction, which would in turn create more damage to the enemy. In other words an Elementalist would use a Water Magic spell to freeze the weapon. However, with this being the case, the weapon would take longer to pull out of the enemy and would create a larger opening for interruption, as such another Elementalist could use the weapon as a lightning rod. Add in the frozen water, and it's attack is amplified even more than if it were not frosty, this lightning would not only damage the enemy, but melt off the ice on the sword making it easier to remove from the enemy.

Arrows, could also get stuck in the enemy's body, creating an easy fuel for Fire Magic attacks or Air Magic attacks. However, there would need to be a max number of arrows that would get stuck in the body and any new arrows would just replace the old, but you would still see constant damage like it is now. Any arrows that miss, get stuck in the ground, and can be set aflame by a Fire Magic area of effect skill. This would be similar to the traps of the present game. Possibly they could be intentionally shot into the ground to lay out a trap for incoming enemies.

Another idea brought on by this, would be for melee-professions to lay out weapons. Either the ones they're using or trash ones that they've gotten along the way, could be dropped on the ground in strategic points, then they could be used to conduct the lightning attacks of an Elementalist setting up an electrical barrier against enemies. Depending on how the game works, this could be used to help rest during a long run through wherever.

Also, since I've been going on an Elementalist roll here, in the case of Necromancer skills like Putrid Bile, arrows shot at the enemy should or could cause their effects to trigger sooner than usual. A sort of popping of the boils on their flesh, if you will. Another thought, if your allies are bleeding, that should act as more blood sacrifice for skills that require it, and to a limited point, increase the damage of the skills. Only, if your allies are bleeding. Necromancers could also use other conditions for the better or worse, rather than just using them in an offensive manner.

In addition to that bleeding idea, the Necromancer's blood sacrifice would be decreased, an arrow of your allies' bleeding degen would be decreased, and the damage of the skill that requires the sacrifice being used would be increased. This is a sort of balancing act so that you cannot abuse the bleeding of your allies.

Several additional ideas I had after this.

Elementalists are known for manipulating the elements and all that wonderful stuff, but they do need to train their spells. In other words, have random environmental events happen during travels that would ensure a Ranger's survival abilities, a Dervish's quick swath of the scythe, and an Elementalist's manipulative abilities would be seen.

Example: A rockslide is occurring on the side of a mountain, you'll sustain major damage and crippling if hit by it. Perhaps you will even fall down the mountain. A Dervish could attack the rocks as they fall, splitting them and lessening the damage, a Ranger would get a sudden sense and be able to inform those with him/her to wait, and an Elementalist could create a wall of stone to prevent them from hitting those with him/her. That or just divert them away from the group.

It could even be that a Necromancer uses his minions to sustain the damage for the team.

Similar scenarios or events that could occur would be mudslide/avalanche/etc. After all, it is called Player versus Environment.

Just a few ideas I had during a brain blitzkrieg when I thought of the possibilities of a spell system that has the spells affected by the situation you're in. Which, if it is not known, was mentioned in a PC Gamer article awhile back.

ur last few ideas sounds great, but something tells me that it would get really annoying or boring after a while

[shawn]

Do you really have to quote the entire post just to reply with one sentence?

edit: Guess I'll actually give feedback on the topic.
The ideas are awesome in theory, but sounds like it would be absolute torture to balance. The additional damage would have to be negligible, but nevertheless still there to add some flavor. That could work out.

[Dusklore]

Do you really have to quote the entire post just to reply with one sentence?
srry i dont know how to quote one part :tongue:

[Skyy High]

If you're not quoting one particular part, don't bother quoting it at all. You were the second reply; we all know who you were talking about.

As to the OP...way, way to frickin complicated, IMO. We're already getting skills that change effects depending on what is going on around us / what we're doing when we use them, adding in this stuff is just...what? Remember that this isn't just about what's "cool" sounding, the game needs to be balanced as well, and if you create the possibility of some crazy 10 skill combo that completely owns everything, you've just turned the PvP game into multiplayer Mortal Kombat - a combotastic f***fest.

Leave the combos to the players to figure out, rather than basically forcing, "Okay, you cast the cold spell to activate the sword, to make the lightning spell hit faster, which attracts the arrows, which make the fire spell hit harder," etc, etc. We already can come up with great spell chains and combos with the system we have now, without making it so you pretty much need to use certain spells in a row in order to get a decent effect out of them.

[Gmr Leon]

The main intent behind the combo ideas I had were just to get players to work together, really. I do see how it could become incredibly complicated when you put it into a large scale, though.

Also, the idea behind the announcement of skills that could be synced well with other skills came about from reading over the Thought Experiments thread. I noticed there how you could have a player screw up a chain or combo by using an incorrect skill when another player is using a skill. Hence the announcement idea.

I think that, you're right, it should be left to the players to figure out. Especially considering that players often work in duos or in guild groups that would share this information with one another.

As to the complication bit..I think it may be in part due to the fact I clumped it all together. Had I shown it bit by bit, perhaps it wouldn't seem as complicated? Like I said somewhere in the post, I was having a brain blitzkrieg when I wrote the first portion before the bold words.

[amcoolio]

Seems pretty complicated to pull off (the environmental effects you are talking about, anyway). I would however like to see some skills for elementalists (maybe elites) that change the environment (like make it rain or bring out a hot sun) that would help other spells that they cast, like a nature ritual. Have an extremely long recharge time and 7-10 second casting time but make it map-wide until the effect wears off.

[Tom Nook]

I'd hate to see such a nice idea ruined by lag. :sad:

[pokepetter]

A rockslide is occurring on the side of a mountain, you'll sustain major damage and crippling if hit by it. Perhaps you will even fall down the mountain. A Dervish could attack the rocks as they fall, splitting them and lessening the damage, a Ranger would get a sudden sense and be able to inform those with him/her to wait, and an Elementalist could create a wall of stone to prevent them from hitting those with him/her. That or just divert them away from the group.

Maybe they could have for example a cutscene of a monk raising a protecting shield to deflect the boulders rolling down the steep cliff? I would like to see alot more of the uncommon ways to fight, such as utilizing the enviorment to damage monsters, or as in the gwen mission where you must fight without a weapon.

[Lamuness]

Good ideas for an animation. But it's going to be a hell of a lot complicated for the user to do. I have no concerns that programming can't pull this off. I'm just concerned that people will not be able to comprehend all this crap that is going on and what they can / can't do with things.

[Gmr Leon]

I think Anet has the tutorials down, they've had three games worth of experience in making them, so if anything they'll probably have a tutorial for GW2. Still though, if done too quickly it would be incredibly confusing.

I personally enjoyed Factions style of doing it, you can do the training, or you can skip it. If you do the training, you get more experience and learn how to do certain abilities to a moderate level. Not great, but just enough to learn how to do it and repeat it. If they do that in GW2, I can see it working out, especially if they follow the get your enemy down to this amount of health before quest is completed.

Maybe they could have for example a cutscene of a monk raising a protecting shield to deflect the boulders rolling down the steep cliff? I would like to see alot more of the uncommon ways to fight, such as utilizing the enviorment to damage monsters, or as in the gwen mission where you must fight without a weapon.

The problem with making it a cutscene is simply that other players don't want to have to deal with those. Once, it's nice, twice, alright, thrice, just stop. This is often seen in the missions throughout the games when you play with a PuG.

Rather than a cutscene, it should be interactive, like a little mini-game. Hit "X" key to hit rocks when "X" appears on-screen, or use "X" skill to block rocks. That's just the basic idea, of course.

[Lamuness]

I understand what you mean, but I don't like Simon-says in an MMO.

But if they were going to do something like this, I'd hate to see all this work done and people not using it because it's 1) simply not worth it, or 2) have too many other ways of killing stuff that makes this combo system less viable. In Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, I never used any fusion spells except for Gravity in a multiplayer setting.

[Jair of the Forest]

I really like the idea of for examples rock slides and/or avalanches that may suddenly occur. Than of course they'd have to put Danger signs for places where that could happen, like in a thin canyon. Than make those things actually challenging and a serious thread and players would seriously become nervous entering those canyons.

[Gmr Leon]

I really like the idea of for examples rock slides and/or avalanches that may suddenly occur. Than of course they'd have to put Danger signs for places where that could happen, like in a thin canyon. Than make those things actually challenging and a serious thread and players would seriously become nervous entering those canyons.

They have a small spot in the Far North like that, with the danger signs, but unfortunately an avalanche never triggers, despite the warning. Although it was probably in relation to the actual monster Avalanche..

[shawn]

But push it too far and you wind up with unfun mechanics.
Anyone want to go do the Arborstone mission? How about Abaddon's Gate? I hear party wide knockdowns + daze every 10 seconds is a blast.

[Gmr Leon]

Absolutely, but at least in the scenarios I'm proposing you can block the falling rocks. (Arborstone) I haven't fought Abaddon in awhile so I can't recall what precisely he does.

[shawn]

He does a few things, but this is the one that isn't fun:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Words_of_Madness

[Gmr Leon]

Ah. If you have an overuse of effects such as that, then definitely it would get annoying.

[Tru Reptile]

That system sounds waaaaay to complex IMO. People already struggle with how the skill system in GW currently is, having something this complex in GW2 would probably make people's heads asplode. Not to mention that skills in GW2 will already change depending on what's going on.

If you wanted chaining skills then the system would have to be much, much more simple. For example:

Player 1: "I'm using X Skill!"
Player 2: "I'm using Y Skill!"
Player 3: "I'm using Z Skill!"
*Bonus Damage*

What I described is basically what the skillchain system in FFXI is like. It's very simple but adds a bit of depth. By using certain skills in a certain order you create a different skillchain that adds a bonus when done correctly.

Personally, I think the skill system in GW2 will be deep enough, so adding anything else (especially chaining skills) would make it more complex than it needs to be.

[kate sullivan]

well skill chaining could work like assassin skills where some skills require another skill active to use but dealing alot of extra dmg there are already some skills that chain together like lighthning and water skills

[Gmr Leon]

I'll have to look over my brain blitzkrieg again because it sounds like people are making it more complex than necessary. The example of the sword being used as a lightning rod for instance, doesn't have to be done, it's just a nice combo. As is the addition of ice to the blade.

It's not at all necessary, it's just there as a possibility to deal more damage.

[pokepetter]

What about a skill like this:

Earth Wall
Make a wall of earth in front of you.

Strategic placement of this can be very effective and positioning are critical. Rangers will have to move in a line of sight for example.

Maybe the wall can be climbed too?



Another example:

Muddy Ground
The ground at target foe's location becomes muddy. Mud slows the movement by 20%. Applies to enemies and allies alike.

[Terenas]

(...)
Muddy Ground
The ground at target foe's location becomes muddy. Mud slows the movement by 20%. Applies to enemies and allies alike.
"My name is Remo Williams" 10e 30r
Stance.
For 3..11 seconds you are weightless, you ignore the effect of Muddy Ground, Quicksand, and any terrain based slowing effect.
You also have a 75% block rate. :laughing:

[slickslabmcknab]

the whole notification thing sounds strangely familiar to ctrl+click imo. or atleast the idea about it. for isntance, lets say you use a knockdown skill and someone else has a "if target foe is kocked down, etc etc", which in turn gives you the greater full effect of a skill. granted, a little pop up could show right by the skills that would take more effect, and maybe a bolded line when the first chain skill goes into play so you notice it better.

but i would loooooove to see more interactive surroundings. dunno why nobody mentioned that horribly hillarious boulder that squashes you next to umbral grotto, which is great the first time around lol. gives you a warning to run a few seconds before, which is what youre talking about. but yeah, an ele putting up a wall to block the attack, like melee/ele ward with better animation, to deflect/break said items would be sweet, or a warrior using somethign like "shields up" on everybody and the thing breaks. or when your in a forest and you use fire skills and stuff burns, or immedieate area chars up. same for water/ice and earth skills. all OPTIONAL though, for ppl who lag easy, should be able to turn off those animations at will. but for like earth, youd have random rocks pup up at skill location, or a few things would freeze alogn the way (bushes, small tree). or a swift breeze ruffles things up. or if you know how the magnador (sp) imp mini pet has that cool effect behind it, something like that for the earth skills skitting across the floor on "flies" toward foe. something similar for fire/air/water skills. thats all eye candy though i suppose

but i totattly agree with the random occurences throughout the game, like boulders, and whatnot that can be dealt with in some cool way (which has been done in GW:EN imo). but pls no cutscense for it. even with scarse occurences id get ridiculously tired of it. even with an option to skip it.

or hell, something like if your view is obstructed, let me be able to break it down after a few hits. lol. only in pve though. certain chars/skills though. like a regular arrow wont break through rock. but a "power shot" after a hit or three will knock a section off though. same for eles on flying objects, or on aoe skills that would have a direct effect on the area to burn a tree, or earthquake to tumble the edge of a huge rock.

mmmm for rangers! or pet ppl, something that will ally untamed "friendly" animals in the area for so many seconds and you could use them to attack. kinda like that minion spell that i think exists to take enemies minions. but that would be SWEET. cant control them, they just fight for you then wander off after its done, like a spirit or shout of sorts. cause we all know theres sometimes two or three things on the radar. granted, only lvl 5, but with the no lvl cap they could put in some high stuff. or. just make them all hi, but when you tame the animal they drop in lvl so youhave to work on it. i.e. if lvl 20 animal, when tamed goes to 10, cause, well, you tamed it, you shattered its life, cheer it up a bit ppl. but that would happen with this skill, they stay at whatever lvl they are. lol. but yeah, have certain areas where itd be advantageous to have 5 or so animals wandering around on certain missions, explorable areas and such. itd be sorta like a mm now that i think of it, but wihtout the need for bodies. i think itd be cool though. thats the interactive part though.

for necros, same idea, with mm, but with random grave sitings, like there are throughout gw already. nothing drastic or crazy for this though. just a grave area here and there, or the random one in some odd spot. ya know?

well im done going off, ill type more later. lol

[Twyst Tye]

the whole notification thing sounds strangely familiar to ctrl+click imo. or atleast the idea about it. for isntance, lets say you use a knockdown skill and someone else has a "if target foe is kocked down, etc etc", which in turn gives you the greater full effect of a skill. granted, a little pop up could show right by the skills that would take more effect, and maybe a bolded line when the first chain skill goes into play so you notice it better.

(snip)

This is exactly the thought that came to mind as I read this suggestion. It's like an enhanced version of calling the skill you are using, prompting players who aren't yet fully versed in their or others' abilities to use the right skill at the right time, and I agree this could be a very good addition to the game.

We already have the mechanism and incentives in place to create team builds that synchronize skills with your team - condition stacking, hex stacks (whether PvP or PvE) - so yes, why not use this notification to draw attention of players to the possible advantages of working together?

This would be another training mechanism to help players understand how cross-class skills can enhance another's attacks, which benefits both PvE and PvP. To me, the PvE part of the game is a big training ground for PvP (even though some ppl never find a love for PvP I still try to win converts), and teaching players to work together and plan/think about team builds can only create better strategic thinkers in both sides of the game. :blush:

This skill calling enhancement is an exciting idea.

[slickslabmcknab]

i think id be satisfied even its just like a flashing skill. along the lines offffff. a little exclamation pt flashes for a sec or two on top of a skill that can be taken advantage of at said moment, or the skill flashes a color. nothing distracting, obstructive, or annoying, but able to turn off. specially on those if burning/knocked/down/etc etc etc. obviously you have to target the same baddie, which i do not want it to auto switch if im focused on some one.

BUT! if it is a small icon (arrow, glyph looking thing, yadda yadda), and you actually click that thing, it auto switches, sorta like, hey, if you wanna use this on a conditioned baddie, click here to get more bang for your buck. i see this making a HUGE impact seeing that if there is no lvl cap, some bosses have got to be ridiculously hard and this should offer some way of killing them a bit easier on newer groups to the game. specially with big mobs and aoe skills across the board.

[Gmr Leon]

This is exactly the thought that came to mind as I read this suggestion. It's like an enhanced version of calling the skill you are using, prompting players who aren't yet fully versed in their or others' abilities to use the right skill at the right time, and I agree this could be a very good addition to the game.

We already have the mechanism and incentives in place to create team builds that synchronize skills with your team - condition stacking, hex stacks (whether PvP or PvE) - so yes, why not use this notification to draw attention of players to the possible advantages of working together?

This would be another training mechanism to help players understand how cross-class skills can enhance another's attacks, which benefits both PvE and PvP. To me, the PvE part of the game is a big training ground for PvP (even though some ppl never find a love for PvP I still try to win converts), and teaching players to work together and plan/think about team builds can only create better strategic thinkers in both sides of the game. :blush:

This skill calling enhancement is an exciting idea.

The funniest part of it all is that I considered not even including this idea or typing it out due to the calling out of skills. However, I didn't because I was on a roll with ideas at the time. The thing I just realized though, is that it's bound to get annoying, so it should be possible to turn it off.

Beginners should be forced to keep it on for the first, say, 24 hours or longer though. Even the veterans who are trying out new professions because they could learn something new from it.