The Skill System will be Modified

[Tro]

The skill system will be modified. There will be fewer, less complex skills

I wonder what they have planed to make skills more simple.

could we be seeing more Spells that are not limited by conditions?

what you think?

[Akirai Annuvil]

I hope every class gets their own copy of the core skills. And with core I mean skills like these:
[flare@15]
[orison of healing@15]
[remove hex]
[endure pain@15]
[life siphon@15]
[armor of earth@15]
[empathy@15]
[fertile season@15]
[necrotic traversal@15]
[power attack@15]
[mantra of flame@15]
[point blank shot@15]

[Wethospu]

What about this? [Empty]

Anyways, it's hard to tell what to think because it will be as good as they implement it.

I like stuff which requires skill. So basically if there is still skill involved then I'm happy.

[Undead Priest]

That's an interesting thought Akirai, perhaps each attribute could be slimmed down to a basic premise placed in a single 'skill'

i.e.
Air = Focused Armor Penetrating Attack.
Fire = Large Area Attack
Earth = Buff Defense
Water = Ice Damage/Movement Reduction
Blood = Life Steal
Curses = Debuff Enemy/DoT
Healing = Increase Health
Protection = Buff Ally
Strength = Buff Attack
Tactics = Buff Defense
Motivation = Buff Ally
Communing = Debuff Enemy

okay obviously a very poor representation of these attributes but hopefully you get the idea.
This would reduce the number of separate skills from the 1000+ now, to something closer to 50.

Another interesting idea if they go this route would be to allow you to 'blend skills' (i.e. if you blend Fire with Blood you get an effect similar to the current Vampiric Swarm, or Air & Curses would cause an effect similar to the current Shell Shock etc...)

Plus if you add in environmental effects say like using fire can set off a powder keg, and using water magic can create a path on top of water, earth magic can move boulders etc...
than these 50 or so skills could accomplish a similar variety of effects that the current 1000+ skills offer, without having so many different skills to maintain.

[Nemeon Lion]

Plus if you add in environmental effects say like using fire can set off a powder keg, and using water magic can create a path on top of water, earth magic can move boulders etc...
than these 50 or so skills could accomplish a similar variety of effects that the current 1000+ skills offer, without having so many different skills to maintain.


That's one of the top features that I'm hoping that GW2 will have, and implemented right as well. It could make exploring a whole new area in the game world incredibly fun, especially when combined with the whole event system.

God, I'm drooling now.

[Jair of the Forest]

God, I'm drooling now.

Me too, sounds like the perfect way to interact with the environment.

[Duskstryder]

Fewer, less complicated skills doesn't exactly excite me. For me, making tons of different builds to try out has always been half the fun for me ever since I had enough skills to play with.

That being said, there are plenty of skills that could be left out. However I like having skills that interact with each other to make a much stronger build. Skills that have the option of interacting w/ the environment aside from a normal use could make up to a degree the lack of interaction between skills. For example, a fire spell that inflicts burning to a foe and can also catch nearby plants on fire, spreading burning to other foes or do more damage. That would be cool, but I don't see how that would be less complicated.

I just know that I'd want more than like 4 or 5 good skills per attribute, because after awhile, the killing/buffing/etc becomes boring, at least for me. That happened when I tried WoW, at least with certain classes, because I'd be using the same 5 or 6 skills over and over for the most part. With Guild Wars, while the skill bar is limited to 8 slots, I can change those slots to practically an infinite number of combinations whenever I want without cost once the skill is purchased.

Wow that got long... :shocked:
/end rant :sealed:

[Renn the Dreamer]

I hope they don't simplify it to the point of other MMOs. The one aspect which I value GW most is the variety of skills there are.

[raspberry jam]

I hope every class gets their own copy of the core skills. And with core I mean skills like these:
[flare@15]
[orison of healing@15]
[remove hex]
[endure pain@15]
[life siphon@15]
[armor of earth@15]
[empathy@15]
[fertile season@15]
[necrotic traversal@15]
[power attack@15]
[mantra of flame@15]
[point blank shot@15]What do you have against Remove Hex lol

[Nochtflamir]

That's an interesting thought Akirai, perhaps each attribute could be slimmed down to a basic premise placed in a single 'skill'

i.e.
Air = Focused Armor Penetrating Attack.
Fire = Large Area Attack
Earth = Buff Defense
Water = Ice Damage/Movement Reduction
Blood = Life Steal
Curses = Debuff Enemy/DoT
Healing = Increase Health
Protection = Buff Ally
Strength = Buff Attack
Tactics = Buff Defense
Motivation = Buff Ally
Communing = Debuff Enemy




This is similar to the system Fury uses - I don't mind some simplification, but this is a bit much IMHO.

[Aiiane]

What do you have against Remove Hex lol

Remove Hex is a No Attribute skill.

[Wonderboy Jack]

I hope they don't simplify it to the point of other MMOs. The one aspect which I value GW most is the variety of skills there are.

Quoted for exact same thing I was gonna say.

[Undead Priest]

This is similar to the system Fury uses - I don't mind some simplification, but this is a bit much IMHO.

I think you're missing the part where my post greatly diverged from that of Akirai,

I like Build Creation, but what I like most about it, is the ability to create interesting combination of skills specifically for their different effects, so it's not the name or the descriptions I care about, it's the effects their combination create.

I wouldn't mind a simplification in the selection of skills, as long as the number of possible effects remains very large.

Thus, If I can use my fire skill and get the same effect as firestorm, meteor, flare, flame djinns haste, mark of rodgort etc.. based on how I use it, then I'm quite content to only have one "fire" skill.

Basically it seems to me, that it's unecessary to have 1000+ skills each with there own separate name and description, causing many effects, but with tons of redundancy
when in comparison, you can have a set number of skills which can combine under different circumstances to achieve all of the previously achieved effects without all the extra work of maintaining a vast library of redundant skills.

[Akirai Annuvil]

That's an interesting thought Akirai, perhaps each attribute could be slimmed down to a basic premise placed in a single 'skill'
That wasn't the point I was making. >.> I was pointing out how a lot of simple skills are also bad skills. What you seem to be suggesting (only one skill per attribute which is the essence of said attribute) isn't a good change simply because at most you can spec three attributes, meaning you'd only have 3 working spells available and 5 useless empty slots.

If you mean to say that the one skill is incredibly variable based upon whatever action you're engaging in, the skill is by definition not simple anymore.
What do you have against Remove Hex lol
Holy Veil is better in every way. Plus it was a simple skill description.

[Balan Makki]

Emergent complexity.

Wonder what Arena Net meant by that. Could be that attributes spent in one line partly crosses over, creating a hybrid skill from another line. Though, I guess it could mean anything at this point.

[raspberry jam]

Remove Hex is a No Attribute skill.I was refering to the fact that Akurai was listing it together with a bunch of skills that could be removed from the game at no cost.

[Undead Priest]

That wasn't the point I was making. >.> I was pointing out how a lot of simple skills are also bad skills. What you seem to be suggesting (only one skill per attribute which is the essence of said attribute) isn't a good change simply because at most you can spec three attributes, meaning you'd only have 3 working spells available and 5 useless empty slots.
If you mean to say that the one skill is incredibly variable based upon whatever action you're engaging in, the skill is by definition not simple anymore.


Hmm, well it appears I sucessfully missed the sarcasm in your original post :rolleyes:.

As far as my previous post, I probably wasn't clear enough that I was talking about 1 skill/GW1 attribute, not 1 skill/GW2 attribute.

Along with the slimming down of skills you would also need a redefinition of "attributes" into smaller groups as well that would cover the various groups of skills (i.e. "Buff Allies", "Debuff Foes", "Damage Foes", "Heal Allies")

Instead of 10 separate classes, each with 4-5 attributes, and each attribute having say 20-25 skills each, ala GW1.
You could eliminate classes, slim down the skills to around 50, and group them into 4-5 "attributes"


Yes, I do mean to say that one skill would be incredibly variable based on how it's used, but that the skill itself would start very simple and straightforward, more so than the current very complex skills of GW1, where choosing skills can take a large amount of research.

i.e. lets say what you start with for your basic Fire Skill just launches a little fire from your hand.

If you make it so that depending on the situation you can then use this same skill at any time to provide light, or melt ice, or burn enemies, set trees on fire, set off Powder Kegs etc...

Sure the novice can just use it to hit their opponents with a little fireball and get by,
but the advanced user could match it with an Air skill to hit multiple opponents, light off the powder kegs next to their opponents, or burn down a bridge so their opponents can't cross etc...

The complexity would emerge from mastering the skills uses, and not in the skill itself.

[sorudo]

well, they said that the lvl cap will be much higher, and with each lvl you gain att points, you end up with a much higher amount of att points.
so if you count it all up, you see that Anet needs to redesign every skill all over again, just so it fits the GW2 system.
so i don't think they will even think about putting GW1 skills in GW2, there is less work on creating complete new ones then rebalanced and redesign every original skill.

[Balan Makki]

Emergent Complexity. (one skill with multiple effects?)

This could mean many things at this point, and assuming that some things will remain the same, to some degree, between GW1 and GW2. If PvP and PvE exist much more closely in GW2--I hope--then perhaps this will provide a skill-bridge between PvP vs PvE, greatly simplify skill descriptions:

Use only one skill description (PvP), but add an under the hood, unseen, modifier for PvE. PvP is where number parsing, balance and stat awareness really counts, PvE is where players love to feel epic and should just be a bunch of fun, exciting adventuring; if you are mowing through a throng NPC enemy, then who cares about numbers. (Diablo, Hellgate, -- lack of scrolling damage)

Perhaps things will be greatly simplified, making it seem like you are using only one version, and when players fight NPCs, or are engaged in PvE, a buff to skills, enchantments, shouts is realized--could be based on your rank and territory. If you have high ranking Norm Faction, a buff in Norm Territory saying, "Your skills have more Power (Here)"; simply modify damage dealt, enchantments, shouts depending on rank. Could be that GW2 will NOT show two versions of the same skill--skill split--but shows a territory buff for all skills. When a player uses skills/spells they'll see an increase in effectiveness in it's output not it's description. Kinda how things work now, once you have mastered a territory, just more encompassing.

Emergent complexity could even add new effects and qualities as players gain ranks in different territories.

PvP could also have territorial buff modifiers, depending on where battles are fought, your territory or enemy territory; this could be a very deep system. (Alterac Valley-WoW did this very well in the early version--later versions were a mess. Alliance Battles have a form of this as you're at a disadvantage when deep in enemy territory(environmental).) Though world PvP, in general, would just be the base (balanced) description of a skill. When engaged in PvPvE, NPCs skills/hit-point ratios can balance up or down accordingly--NPCs engaged in PvP would have a stat modifier, a PvP buff. Thus players could still see the epic attack Vs NPC, but the NPC may just have a lot more health or whatever balances. . .

Course I'm speculating that the entire GW2 world may have a layered PvP pseudo instance, with event bleed-over into PvE--crosses fingers. Thus completely seperate PvP and PvE, but with many temptations to cross between Tyria and Tyria's Mists.

[raspberry jam]

Use only one skill description (PvP), but add an under the hood, unseen, modifier for PvE. PvP is where number parsing, balance and stat awareness really counts, PvE is where players love to feel epic and should just be a bunch of fun, exciting adventuring; if you are mowing through a throng NPC enemy, then who cares about numbers. (Diablo, Hellgate, -- lack of scrolling damage)Hi, welcome to the internet. Everything will be on GW2wiki like two weeks after release; there are no unseen modifiers.