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UndeadBehlial
21-11-2004, 03:42
So i am not supposed to tell anyone for many purposes, much less in a forum, but I have told Xircon because I had to ask him a question. You'll see what I mean as you read. Ok so while playing GW last beta, this message came on my screen from someone. I couldnt tell if it was some loser or not, but I was in a mission at the time so I thought maybe its legit? Anyway, this message said something along the lines of "Congratulations! You have been randomly selected to participate in one of our interim beta tests between open beta weekends." and then just said to check my account email for further details. I checked right away, and nothing. About 2 hours later I did get an email with a site to download something and a key, and it told me to please not tell anyone.

However I cannot tell this story without everyone knowing that (oh and they changed quite a bit.) I told Xircon because they preassign you char classes (they're working on balancing the primary/secondary combos), anyway so I got primary warrior, secondary monk. Sweet. Thats what Xircon always is so I asked for help with skills and such. Anyway, so they hooked me up with some sweet items to start (some new ones, i'm not spoiling stats :D ) So this guy I met the first day (this beta event has been going on since Monday) and we have been playing and such together. There IS a new aspect to the game where along the roads you meet certain people with certain abilities (spell sellers, *trainers*, and actually smiths which raise the dmg of swords, axes, etc). You're required to cast lots for the bonus you get (how high of spells you can buy, how much more dmg, etc). So I had my best sword they gave me to use and met a smith and all of a sudden poof, sword is gone (I rolled 1 and 1 lol on D8's.). I'm like wtf and so is my buddy. So I whisper a mod and they tell me that with this new aspect is there are critical failures that are factored in based on a number of things that they wont tell us...yet.

So what do you guys think these factors are? My buddy and I tried, and we think so far the better the item, the more likely to fail. Do you guys like this idea? We have a survery after and i am jsut wondering what you all think.

Xircon
21-11-2004, 04:20
So i am not supposed to tell anyone for many purposes, much less in a forum, but I have told Xircon because I had to ask him a question. You'll see what I mean as you read. Ok so while playing GW last beta, this message came on my screen from someone. I couldnt tell if it was some loser or not, but I was in a mission at the time so I thought maybe its legit? Anyway, this message said something along the lines of "Congratulations! You have been randomly selected to participate in one of our interim beta tests between open beta weekends." and then just said to check my account email for further details. I checked right away, and nothing. About 2 hours later I did get an email with a site to download something and a key, and it told me to please not tell anyone.

However I cannot tell this story without everyone knowing that (oh and they changed quite a bit.) I told Xircon because they preassign you char classes (they're working on balancing the primary/secondary combos), anyway so I got primary warrior, secondary monk. Sweet. Thats what Xircon always is so I asked for help with skills and such. Anyway, so they hooked me up with some sweet items to start (some new ones, i'm not spoiling stats :D ) So this guy I met the first day (this beta event has been going on since Monday) and we have been playing and such together. There IS a new aspect to the game where along the roads you meet certain people with certain abilities (spell sellers, *trainers*, and actually smiths which raise the dmg of swords, axes, etc). You're required to cast lots for the bonus you get (how high of spells you can buy, how much more dmg, etc). So I had my best sword they gave me to use and met a smith and all of a sudden poof, sword is gone (I rolled 1 and 1 lol on D8's.). I'm like wtf and so is my buddy. So I whisper a mod and they tell me that with this new aspect is there are critical failures that are factored in based on a number of things that they wont tell us...yet.

So what do you guys think these factors are? My buddy and I tried, and we think so far the better the item, the more likely to fail. Do you guys like this idea? We have a survery after and i am jsut wondering what you all think.

Yes, we heard about this test and such. It is not as uncommon as you think. I have had a few people contact me on it asking if we new anything about it before they downloaded the install client. If I had seen this thread earlier or if I had known you were going to post this before you came asking me about it, I would have not told you anything. But once again, you are off doing your own thing. I would delete this thread, but I am sure everyone has already seen it.

Tsume
21-11-2004, 04:26
Undead....is this where you have been all this time? Hmm....I wish I had been randomly selected. I also wish you wouldnt have posted this. It seems like your risking your ability to beta. I hope they dont strip you of it.

And great, now we have traveling salesman. Thats allways great in a game. *sarcastic. (I hate em)

That being said, your upgrade problem could have been related to your character level, the number of points in attributes you have (since a lot of items seem to require a certain attribute level). For instance it could have rolled one way, and then cross referenced your attribute points, and than trashed itself giving you the crap sword.

As far as the more casting you do, the higher damage and better spells you can get from those traders, I'm definatly not crazy about that. It seems like the lvling of the blacksmith, fishing, or lumberjacking skills. Something that Guild Wars seemed to be not incorporating. I dunno. I think I'm dissapointed. I dislike these new features and ideas.

UndeadBehlial
21-11-2004, 06:02
well i'm led to believe these are just tryouts and will only be incorporated with enough positive feedback. The chars like smiths arent that common though. You have to really search vague areas to find them (only some are along the roads). Ehh i dont think ill jeopardize my chances that much, as its randomly selected after every weekend, so I only have 1 more day.

What would you guys LIKE to see? As I said I have a survey I can comment.

Diab
21-11-2004, 06:24
Lucky bastard. :lol:

Did they make you sign an NDA? And I don't get why Xircon didn't want you posting about this; did he get selected as well?

As for this new system, I think just making the sword completely disapear is too harsh. Maybe they should add in something like, the better the sword is in the first place, the more chance it has of being downgraded, instead of upgraded.

Just two questions for now:
1. Did they add more quests/areas now, since our last weekend together?
2. Are there any added pets to train? Besides wolves, moa birds, pigs (which I have yet to see, besides the Oink at the beginning), and lynxs.

UndeadBehlial
21-11-2004, 07:00
2) Haha well its not comPLETELY WoW yet, so nothing rideable, though it would be sweet. As far as normal new trainees, not that I have seen, but I havent been loking as im not a ranger, so there could be. I've only played with a few rangers and only 2 had pets, both lynxs. Ill try and find out.

1) Yes new areas, its basically like the comparison of the first 2 weekends, just about 8 new missions except they're AFTER that one place. Game isnt up ATM, but remember the first weekend the last place place? Well there are a few after that now (i think 6, im just too tired to load the game).

~Kazama Fury~
21-11-2004, 09:55
i dont know if xircon got selected or not, but i dont think its relevant. xircon just didnt want undead to post this thread for the reason he might be stripped of this secret beta access. it was supposed to be a secret thing.


about these unlucky rolls and smithing, this reminds me of survival project. a game that vic and i got hooked on after gunbound.

ill try to sum it up real quick. the game relies on a character in a battle royale, mainly, it could be teams as well, but anyway its a constant PvP thing. your character can equip 2 items, a weapon and an armor. you first buy a level 1 weapon and armor of your choice. they have different stats, say a sword is fast but does less damage, an axe does more damage but is slower. as you upgrade these those stats would be even more factored in. a level 5 axe will do crazy damage but is slower than its level 1 version.

well thats not really important, my point is, to upgrade these weapons you need to collect cards. if you're a fire class character and you bought a fire weapon (logical choice), you would need to collect fire cards. and trust me, these things arent too easy to find. they are sometimes spawn in a fire arena, which there is 7 other players that might take them before you can. bad thing was, fire was the most popular of the cards and upgrading fire weapons was the most expensive.

how to upgrade: eg: level 2 firesword + 200 fire cards = level 3 firesword. well thats nice, right? now problem, upgrading level 2 to level 3 has a 20% chance to fail! now lets go to level 6 firesword + 600 fire cards = level 7 firesword. problem, 40% chance to fail, and 10% of degrade! not only you spend all this time collecting 600 fire cards, there is a chance it fails, but it can go back to level 5 which means you need to go through 2 upgrades! its a lot worse at level 9, there would be 10% success, 90% fail, and 40% degrade.


wow i think i wrote too much to just get my point across, i hope it was still worth it. :(


edit: ok that was weird, my post was posted before nali's. o_O
i think it has something to do with the current forum time going backwards. :O

Naliworld
21-11-2004, 10:12
Lucky guy. :lol: :thumbsup: If you can, keep us updated about any other major changes. :)

Share
21-11-2004, 10:32
Nice :) cool to have a guild member in such an event.

Although, as mentioned above, maybe you shouldn't leak too much since they obviously don't want you to.

UndeadBehlial
21-11-2004, 13:49
Well, some people FROM areanet are playing with us actually. I've met 2 I think, they were getting peppered with questions, and they basically said that depending on the feedback, this new idea would stay or go just like that.

I wont leak any specifics (unless after today we are given the green light, but I doubt it as we're not supposed to even talk about that this beta exists). Here are some ideas to think about that I wont get into: Revamp of the allocation of attribute points, new class that is secondary only, and an interesting twist involving friendly fire on missions.

~Kazama Fury~
21-11-2004, 13:54
secondary only class... nice!!!

i hope there will be primary only class too.

and on top of it, more classes! or just more class only professions.

then that would probably interest me more in playing the game. problem is, itll be harder to balance out.

UndeadBehlial
21-11-2004, 14:01
right, and balance is why i was preassigned W/Mo. I'm trying to post a lot to get to 900 haha so i'm not leaving rpgforums till i hit it.

Oh and I just met a ranger this morning who had a snow wolf, and theres a life bar now hahaha.

Xircon
21-11-2004, 15:24
I thought more about the guild Alliance thing.

If you wanted to do a guild fight, but you did not have enough members or not enough people were online, it would be nice to team up with another guild. But at the same time, isn't that the advantage of having a large working guild? If you want to do pvp, you still can go to the tomb of kings. But as for guild fights, I think it should be guild on guild. It is a lot of work to rank higher on the ladder and to keep a guild functioning. I would hate to see a couple groups of friends beat out our guild.

As for the Alliance things. It would be nice to be able to forum an alliance. Such as with Spirits of War. But both of us submitting an alliance, we would never be able to enter a guild fight against each other.

I played tournament paintball for a long time. I played 5 man mostly at the time but we had 6 people on the team. Always have to have at least one alternate. We played a small 3 man tourney so we split our team in half. Both of the teams were potentially going to make the finals. It came time for each of the two teams to play each other. If either group of us beat the other group, it would have knocked them out of the finals. As a motion of respect, both teams walked off the field. In return, both teams got points for eliminating the other team. In tourney is not the time to fight an alliance.

All of that does have a point. Spirit of War guild is hosted by this forum as well. I would hate to have a guild fight against them. I know we would win and everything (hehe) but to save fate, I would not want to fight them when points mattered. If we had the option to form an official alliance with them, I would. It would be nice to be able to have group pvp or guild fights where points did not matter and where we could fight the team of our choice. It would be a way to fight friends or practice and not worry about losing. Or at least in a guild fight if we could have the option to mutally withdraw from the fight.

Diab
21-11-2004, 15:30
Oh and I just met a ranger this morning who had a snow wolf, and theres a life bar now hahaha.

Yay! Wolfie won't be dying anymore!

Another little question: How are our old characters? Still intact? Are they going to keep them intact, and until when?

Xircon
21-11-2004, 15:30
right, and balance is why i was preassigned W/Mo. I'm trying to post a lot to get to 900 haha so i'm not leaving rpgforums till i hit it.

Oh and I just met a ranger this morning who had a snow wolf, and theres a life bar now hahaha.

Yes, they mentioned adding that.

~Kazama Fury~
21-11-2004, 15:43
if the wolfie dies, you can always revive him. :O but disapointing how you are limited to only 8 skills. so yeah, u may want to keep the pet alive, not to mention you already waste a skill slot with the tame beast in the first place.

i was thinking of making an alliance with spirit of war, but i dont know how that would work.

i just dont want to see another silly west vs east 76/ch tension.

UndeadBehlial
21-11-2004, 15:54
sadly there are still only 8 skills.

As far as guild alliances go, your right I still dont know what would be the best way to implement this, unless there were guilds and above guilds there were councils (so like in a guild alliance with 2 other guilds there were like 3 or 9 leaders or something). I dont know.

Xircon
21-11-2004, 16:42
if the wolfie dies, you can always revive him. :O but disapointing how you are limited to only 8 skills. so yeah, u may want to keep the pet alive, not to mention you already waste a skill slot with the tame beast in the first place.

i was thinking of making an alliance with spirit of war, but i dont know how that would work.

i just dont want to see another silly west vs east 76/ch tension.

I guess I may not have been clear on it a long time ago. The day that this forum was created, I edited a post in another part of this forum. It was a really bad porn link. As routine, I posted about it in the mod forum for this area.

Since I think all the mods of this area are members of Spirit of War, I also was very clear that I was not stepping on any of there toes and did not want conflict between the guilds to arise. Through many posts in that thread, we formed at the least a guild friendship. I was very clear that we would not try to do things like steal members from each other or ever bad mouth each other. On that does is destroy both guilds as well as the game. I think that is something we need to add to the rules. Even if we choose not to hold an alliance with Spirits of War, we come from the same forums. As a whole, we can never slander another guild from this forum. I think one of the things that hurt CH was the fighting between East and West as well as the fighting between Temple and CH That will not happen here.

~Kazama Fury~
21-11-2004, 17:00
i consider spirit of war to be our brother or sister. we may not share the same views on things, but we will always respect each other. and whenever we are in trouble, we may help one another (thus the alliance). but its obviously not a must.

we might share ideas, tips, strats, and who knows. so far they seem really nice people. not to mention, the mods seem perfectly fine with us being here and dont share a bias opinion about us.

now if we can get this forum running, i am sure theres enough people to share among 2 guilds.

Xircon
21-11-2004, 17:22
but its obviously not a must.


No, it is not a must to have an alliance with Spirit of War. But yes, it is a must that we not slander them in any way. I am sorry, but that is what happened with CH and I do not think any of us here want another ch. Plus I swore to Elly that there would not be negative confrontations between guilds.

No, I did not like CH. I did not like how it was run. I did like the intent it originally had. I liked every CH member that I ever met except a couple of them. But I thought the bickering that went on between CH East, CH West, and Temple was horrible. I am not pointing any fingers here what so ever. But Kaz, when me, you, and Doc sat down to do this. This is one thing we agreed upon. I do not care if Spirit of War declares war on us. We will not retaliate. You know it will only lead to the destruction of these forums as well as members being banned. I know I am only one of three leaders, but this is something I am insisting on. We will not have internal wars.

Yes, this is a must.

Tsume
21-11-2004, 17:25
Since we are on the topic of guild aliances, there has recently been a guild that asked me to bring to the Order's attention their request at an alliance. I am still gathering more intel on them currently, GW Seekers. I'm not sure that the alliance would have an official structure like the individual guilds, but its more a collection of guilds that promote honorable gaming, and the disallowance of cheats, hacks, extra programs, etc. The idea was previously implemented in Diablo II guilds that allied themselves with this common theme, so most of them are also fellow Diablo II players.

Also, Xircon and Kaz, what is the Order's official policy on cheating, hacks, and third party programs that modify the game in negative manner? I also agree that no slander or libel towards other guilds should be allowed on our forum.

Xircon
21-11-2004, 18:41
Also, Xircon and Kaz, what is the Order's official policy on cheating, hacks, and third party programs that modify the game in negative manner? I also agree that no slander or libel towards other guilds should be allowed on our forum.

First and fore most, we have to follow the rules of RPGforums. If we want to allow cheats and hacks, then we would have to find a new home. I never needed them on Diablo I do not see why I would need them here.

Lady Kingel
21-11-2004, 18:45
Greetings to all thee, most honorable guilds, I bid thee greetings from Seekers/GW

I come to you with a missive to seek alliances for Seeker of Guild Wars.

I have been part of a large group of strictly legit, honorable gamers within multiple guilds since 1997. The Seekers/GW are seeking alliances with only legit, honorable mature gamers to allow more players into the pool of players...soooooo ---we can each have trusted and known players to safely game with. We all know that RL takes us away from our gaming, so with alliances and a good Website, it will allow us to have an forum and a list of all the sanctioned Guild Members....many different things.

I don't view Seekers of Guild Wars to be a very complicated alliance structure. We are basically seeking like minded guilds to safely game with in both environments. Our members are mature and are known to be thinking players who play for the benefit of the team as a whole. In our present guilds we share all items and try to help members when someone loses their items. Again, though, I am not suggesting that everyone needs to do this. I am just opening the door for some discussions.

I view alliances like good friendships and it does take a bit of time to develop those but with good communication and playing styles that are respectful of others it works beautifully, and is easily accomplished particularly when one of the guilds has been doing it a very long time.

Below is a site for the ULGD...it is a cooperative group of guilds who started the ULGD back when DI/DII was popular. We have since moved into several other games and the cooperative still exists after many years. I view this as a true testimony to strong friendship that trascend miles.

I am actively seeking members who wish to be on my honorable/strictly legit GW gaming roster, and in doing so I am trying to be highly respectful of others' guilds and so I am posting this to invite you to consider alliances.

Please contact me via email on this site if you are seriously interested and please formally share information about your guild.

I see it as a part of the romance of the game...Come and dance with me...

Upon my honor I extend my hand to you.

Lady Kingel~SKR
--the heart within the soul...
Lady Kingel
EDITED

Lady Kingel
21-11-2004, 18:52
EDITED

I forgot to mention this:

Please note: Seekers/Guild Wars wants to create a GW's alliance only and is not trying to be an additional part of the ULGD. Those of us already in the ULGD already have our alliances well established...I never think of someone in one of those guilds as not being a member of my family.

If you should like to become a member of the ULGD formally, please feel free to submit an application. It is a superior cooperative with excellent members.

Our criteria is extremely strict, so it is very difficult to be accepted.

I do welcome those interested in pursuing an alliance with Seekers/GuildWars to contact me via email.

Most respectfully submitted,
Lady Kingel~SKR/GW

Xircon
21-11-2004, 19:16
EDITED


One thing I have to mention and is going to be a problem with outside forums. Links to competitors sites cannot happen. It does not matter how small or big your site is. This is a forum wide policy and rule. If it is apparent that people are passing these links around by PM, you may find your PM box removed or your forum account gone. These are not my rules, buy rules place by Elly the Boss woman herself. I hope we can work something out.

UndeadBehlial
21-11-2004, 19:28
is this just a Coalition of Guilds or a massive alliance? So far from waht you have said I do not see a need, 90% of the people i've met on GW have been pretty mature and good players. Again, why should we/I join? Also is this a decision our entire guild makes or is this for individuals?

If this is to carry on as conversation, I recommend starting a new thread as this isnt the topic at hand. Maybe even the GW Ideas thread I started if your solely looking to hijack, but a new one would be nice.

Edit: omg 899 :)

HappyPants
21-11-2004, 19:41
I am a bit confused by your post. You call it an alliance, but they way you go on about it, it sounds like members have to apply individually. This would essentially make a member part of 2 guilds. I don't think that is your intention though.

On the subject of having a “Item Vault” for member to use, I am a bit skeptical on how this will work. I think the developers have intentions of implementing something similar, but would their be precautions set in place that would prevent a member from going and taking all the items. I have seen in other games before where people are only your friend so at some later point they can steal your items when you put them in a position of trust. Or maybe someone doesn't go in with the intention of taking a lot of items. Say they see that there is 20 steel up for grabs and take all 20 of it to craft an amour and skirt. That one person used it all when it could have been split up between 4 people who could of used it to each craft something.

~Kazama Fury~
21-11-2004, 21:09
90% of the people i've met on GW have been pretty mature and good players.

you must have been really lucky. if you check my screenshots, ull see an example of players i meet, not to mention other guild members encountered those types as well. it was also at the sametime! so it must mean they're all over the place. perhaps a concidence? i think not.

no, if ur a member of DII, it wouldnt make much sense that you would be a member of Spirits of War. but this doesnt mean we couldnt be allies.

as for the item vault, i dont really like the idea, unless everyone trusts each other on that level, but i highly doubt it.

Lady Kingel
21-11-2004, 21:16
Hail to thee Happy Pants, thank you for your question. I hope to try and answer it:

Seekers/GW is looking to form gaming alliances with honorable, mature guilds of like minds. Normally, guild leaders thinking about alliances discuss them with the Elders, or High Council and then according to their specific rules, may or may not discuss them with their members. This is not for me to judge, or say...for I fully respect that every guild operates differently and may have a very different structure or framework. I am certain your guild has most excellent leaders who know exactly how to handle these things.
*******************************

I honestly don't have a clue how the stash thing will work and I am just being very patient and waiting to see how it is when the game releases. From a personal standpoint, I am used to sharing what I have but that is how I was brought up, (in my guild life). Here again though, that may not be the case when it comes to alliance gaming in GW's, I simply don't know the answer because I am don't know the logistics of the stash system yet.

We, like members of your guild play with lots of people, who are in guilds, who are not in guilds, and are not in the alliance as well. It is the quality of the guild that we are seeking to form alliances with, not its competitive quality, but that of its honor and respect for players as a whole.

I extend my hand to you in honor,
Lady Kingel~SKR/GW

Lady Kingel
21-11-2004, 21:36
"as for the item vault, i dont really like the idea, unless everyone trusts each other on that level, but i highly doubt it"
******************************************

Hail most honorable ~Kazama Fury~ You are quite right about the vault thing. It is very easy in DII to play cooperatively WHEN you fully trust whom you game with and they trust you...which is why seeking only guilds of like minds works well with honorable alliances. They know from the get, that the new alliance will play in the same honorable style.

DII had a town where you could drop items, and in the early days we even dropped all our gold-and asked for gold for repairs, before it went auto split. In GW...I kept wishing we had a town to drop items to share...I am just kinda made that way I guess...very different playing where I can't give to others. I finally did just that and gave items to others in every GW team because I knew they could use them, and I didn't need them...even for gold or salvage.... Not a trade, just a present.

For me, and the people I play with, sharing in a game is a way of life. I pick up stuff in my backpack and drop it in DII town, and then people in the team ask for items/sell off at the end unwanted stuff...as there are so few playing the mission it is easy. In GW, I don't this will happen, 1. The economy is very different, 2.there is no town and again, I just don't know how the stashes will operate.

We are beginning to discuss this item sharing idea within my own GW guild and we are awaiting stash information. But so far, it is refreshingly unanimous with our own guild that people want to share, even if the GW system doesn't make it as easy as it was in D2. We feel that our honor is what we are in the dark.

I remain faithfully,
Lady Kingel~SKR/GW

UndeadBehlial
21-11-2004, 21:47
ok i typed a long response and it didnt work, so here it goes again. I forgot some stuff i think...

Ok so I still have not received a good reason why to join. Is this just a fun thing thats nice to do? Is the only benefit this Item Vault? Because other than that the hierarchy you imply means MORE people over my head.

Also you do not expect this Item Vault to work do you? On the scale you guys seem to be aiming for, lets say you get 10 guilds, so about 600 people lets say. As Happy stated, there are going to be people who donate and people who take. Personall, I am a very trustworthy person, if I need transferring i'll go to someone I trust like Diab, Xircon, Happy, Heav/Hubby, Kaz, Tsume, DOC, etc. I, however, if needing say 20 steel ingots would not hesitate to take them all. Even though they are in a community pool, why do I care what 550 people I don't know think? Also if I had extra items, i would definately let friends have them as opposed to throwing them in this vault. No matter how well you siphon guilds, youll get the scammers and such who will just take whatever is in there whether they need it or not.

Since this is a guild thing, who makes this decision anyway? Is this just our leaders? I know the fact that i'm not even an officer means I get little say in things, but I have yet to be shown something that this is other than a Marxist ideal that will go communist :)

In short, this sharing is a good idea, however the bigger the numbers the more chance of tainting and the more anonimity. Hence why we have a single guild with people we trust.

My old post was better. Grr this site....

Tsume
21-11-2004, 23:14
I agree Undead. I have been having problems all day with 'database errors', and several of my posts have not even shown up. Which really annoys me since now I have to repost my thoughts, and grrrr. (see you finally got to 900 :p )

I can see clearly Undead's objections to the Vault. And since this is not like D2 and a slighlty different drop system, perhaps we should stick to guild vaults with the guilds relying on their members to help other members of the guild out. This would keep as Undead said, for someone to be feeling that their items could've been used by someone they actually know, rather than John Doe. I believe there is talk that some sort of system could be incorporated into the game where guild members could freely share with their fellow guild members. If something to that affect is implemented then a Vault of sorts would not be neccesary. As currently the vault would merely be members holding onto the items until someone wanted them.

And I believe all matters are ultimatley decided by our leaders Undead, with our oppinions taken into count, so you do have a voice. I think atleast. :lol:

Xircon
22-11-2004, 01:33
I agree Undead. I have been having problems all day with 'database errors', and several of my posts have not even shown up. Which really annoys me since now I have to repost my thoughts, and grrrr. (see you finally got to 900 :p )

I can see clearly Undead's objections to the Vault. And since this is not like D2 and a slighlty different drop system, perhaps we should stick to guild vaults with the guilds relying on their members to help other members of the guild out. This would keep as Undead said, for someone to be feeling that their items could've been used by someone they actually know, rather than John Doe. I believe there is talk that some sort of system could be incorporated into the game where guild members could freely share with their fellow guild members. If something to that affect is implemented then a Vault of sorts would not be neccesary. As currently the vault would merely be members holding onto the items until someone wanted them.

And I believe all matters are ultimatley decided by our leaders Undead, with our oppinions taken into count, so you do have a voice. I think atleast. :lol:

What? Undead got 900? Did I miss it or something? Where? As for the vault. Yes, I would contirbute to it. I think whether it is official or not, I will have one. If if gets robbed, it gets robbed. I will then create a new one. But having a smaller guild, I would not worry about it so much. I would also not give someone the pass to the account until after I new them. Anything of real value I would probably give to someone before I threw it in there so if it did get robbed, it would not be a big loss.

As for the decisions made? Some issues will have to be decided upon by the leaders. Some by the officers. I hope most are decided upon by the whole guild. The only time I see it being an leader only vote is in the case where we have to take action against an officer. I hope that never happens. The next time it may become a leader only vote is in the case of a tie vote from within the guild. In this case it would not be a vote, but an agreement between the leaders.

As for the officers, it is kind of shaky right now just what we were going to do. When I created the guild, I added everyone to the guild list. Not sure why I added Diab as an officer, but I added Angel just because she was one of the people that first mentioned getting this going. We decided for the time being, to just leave the list how it was. We will be making changes to it. But I will not do anything without the wish of the guild behind it.

Naliworld
22-11-2004, 04:07
Personally, I really don't see any problem with some friendly matches with SoW. We are part of the same community after all, and I'm sure everyone concerned is mature enough to realize that getting a slightly higher or lower guild ranking isn't anything worth boasting about. I have little experience with PvP, though, so its up to you guys to decide.

Instead of an global Item Vault we aren't even sure will materialize, why not keep items found by guild members within the guild, with perhaps each officer holding a different class of items. If a member from another guild wants some item, the onus would be on that member to seek out the officer carrying the item he needs, then ask for them(either in-game, on a forum, or something). To prevent people from pestering officers overmuch, perhaps only members who've joined for a set amount of time or have proven their maturity would be allowed to get ahold of an officer's contact. How many items are given is up to the officers, of course.

I don't know if this is practical or not, just a simple idea that may be workable if Item Vaults aren't introduced.

My $0.02.

UndeadBehlial
22-11-2004, 10:50
So its safe to assume that we STILL don't have a good reason to join this. Also Nali- I think it WOULD be great to play SoW, however I think what Xircon said was he wouldnt want to play them in a rated style where we'd lose points or they would, as you touched on. I think that no matter the point system, it still gets racked up in the Loss category, where every point sucks.

Xircon
22-11-2004, 11:57
Personally, I really don't see any problem with some friendly matches with SoW. We are part of the same community after all, and I'm sure everyone concerned is mature enough to realize that getting a slightly higher or lower guild ranking isn't anything worth boasting about. I have little experience with PvP, though, so its up to you guys to decide.

Instead of an global Item Vault we aren't even sure will materialize, why not keep items found by guild members within the guild, with perhaps each officer holding a different class of items. If a member from another guild wants some item, the onus would be on that member to seek out the officer carrying the item he needs, then ask for them(either in-game, on a forum, or something). To prevent people from pestering officers overmuch, perhaps only members who've joined for a set amount of time or have proven their maturity would be allowed to get ahold of an officer's contact. How many items are given is up to the officers, of course.

I don't know if this is practical or not, just a simple idea that may be workable if Item Vaults aren't introduced.

My $0.02.

When I was mentioning items, I was talking about the guild. Because accounts are free, I would make a mule account just to hold items. Everyone or at least nearly everyone is this guild would have access to it. I would love to take SoW on in a friendly match. I think it would be fun for both sides. But just as Undead was saying, the only current way is by randomly coming across each othere and points mattered. I do hope they change that.

No dis-respect to Lady whatevever her name is, but I have deleted her posts. One, she posted links to her forum in them. Two, she is also recruiting to her own forum and guild or whatever, not sure, but something about "everyone is welcome to apply" in her posts says she is recruiting. If people want to leave this guild and join another, great. But recruit somewhere else. Third, I guess she was bothered that we were discussing all this publicly. As a leader of this guild, I would never organize and setup something such as an alliance with a guild without the wish of the guild behind me. Before I entered an Alliance with a guild, I would want to know what the guild was about. If a guild was asking me to keep information from the rest of my own guild, I could not sure what they were hiding from me.

Sorry Tsume if this was a friend of yours, but that is how I feel. I cannot moraly hide this from everyone.

As a mod of this forum, this thread needs to get back on track. Further dicussion of this matter needs to go in a new thread.

So Undead, how is the test interim or whatever they calling it going?

Tsume
22-11-2004, 16:37
I thought Undead said the last day was earlier this weekend, are you still doing it Undead? Have any more problems with weapons? So since you have a Warrior/Monk tell me how they reduced its effectiveness. There was two seperate threads on the matter, and some alphas or betas reported that its power had been reduced, but didnt say how. So tell me how they did it. I'm guessing they manipulated Healing Hands somehow, as that was what all the fuss was about. But I openly fear that this will strike a blow to the monk primary rather than the warrior/monk.

P.S. No appologies Xircon, and I would not ask you to hide anything from me or any other members. I hope I didnt give you that impression.

UndeadBehlial
22-11-2004, 16:40
tis over, tis sad. Good news is that the survey I can fill out for a while and theres a big comments section. What would you guys like me to say? Its not all just about the new changes, that i'll do solo I think, but as a whole what do you guys want as far as input?


Edit: Didnt see Tsume's post. Before I answer, were you all HOPING for W/Mo to be nerfed? And in what way would this be most effective in your opinions?

Tsume
22-11-2004, 17:21
Edit: Didnt see Tsume's post. Before I answer, were you all HOPING for W/Mo to be nerfed? And in what way would this be most effective in your opinions?

H...E Double Hocketsticks NOOOO

I am dead against the nerfing, but it has been commented that it was reduced in some manner. I'm sick of people that can only see in black and white, they cant think outside the box and they cant find ways to kill a char, so they think he is invincible. This is proven throughout both the Warrior/Monk threads, and the number of people requesting the nerf was far less than those of us defending him. The arguments are based on limited logic. People still dont understand all the workings of the game, and how very important hexes, curses, enchantments and the removal of them is. Silence him. Backfire him. Drain him. Shatter Enchantment him. Shatter Hex your allies near him. Cast two hexes, then Shatter Delusions. Apply poison and then shoot him with a Savage or Penetrating shot, followed by Ignite arrows and Tounge Biter. Gurrrrr. Bleh. :rant:

Diab
22-11-2004, 23:29
Seeing as how I've never played a W/Mo, I don't see what all the commotion is about. How is this build overpowered, and in PvM, PvP or both?

Tsume
23-11-2004, 00:49
The argument is that the Warrior/monk is practically unkillable, and the real kicker in the nay sayers argument is the Healing Hands spell, which heals for xx each time physical damage is taken. There are two obvious ways around this. One is elemental damage. Two is shatter enchantment. It is easy to in one flick of a want neutralize the warrior/monk. Airgo I dont see what all the fuss is about either.

1SG Bowie
23-11-2004, 01:32
What I saw most of the power coming from this class combination was when they were backed-up by a pair of good casters. From my view point they could be taken out but, in PvP they could make a Living Wall (old school MTG reference) long enough to let the casters give you lots more problems.

The combination just allowed them to survive quite a bit longer and, wore you down while a caster stood safely in back and, did lots of nasty stuff. By themselves they can be beat but, it takes a little more work and skill.

They are more of a problem when they have casters of their own.

UndeadBehlial
23-11-2004, 01:40
Tsume, I think most people agree with you. W/Mo is FAIRLY easily brought down by a mesmer, however would the mesmer build be JUST against W/Mo or is it against casters in general? People at first were scared of it, but now the underrated Mesmer is known as an adversary. It will all be interesting, making builds to counter builds and such.

Wha do you guys think about the Ranger? It seems everyone and their mother made a ranger the past open weekend. I wonder if that will hold for the coming beta and also for the release. I wonder numbers on how many prerelease boxes were sold as ranger boxes to get the bow. And with THAT I ask you all: I was thinking about getting Ithras bow, however I dont like the latest affinity to rangers, so should I go another route? If I get an item that many pepole dont, with a ton of Ithras Bows out there I'm sure I could easily trade for one. Unfortunately this needs to be answered ASAP as I will be buying my prerelease sometime before this coming Sunday when I am home.

1SG Bowie
23-11-2004, 02:18
I am not sure if the original plan is still in effect but, it is also something for you to think about.
Unless it has been changed I don’t think that you can trade for a usable special item. The plan as I understood it to be was that these items would come customized to the character.

There are quite a few people who expressed some dislike of this because; they were only able to obtain a pre-order package that included an item different than what they wanted. They planed to trade the item they got as part of the pre-order package for the item they really wanted.

Many of these people were hoping to trade for the bow and, that may make it hard to trade for even if this plan to customize is changed. GW may change the plan because some people had pre-ordered before they found this out. I guess we will know when the game comes out.

From what I have observed the Ranger Bow was the most desired followed by the Necromancer Shield. The least desired but, most ordered was the Warrior Shield. The other 2 items were not that much a point of discussions.

UndeadBehlial
23-11-2004, 15:10
i still dont know what to get! I plan on making good chars, a good Monk, a good ranger as well, prolly a necro variant too. Hmmm!

Tsume
23-11-2004, 18:59
Theres no guarantee that these uniques are any better then the current rares either, keep in mind. Also Bowie is right about the customization, though it is highily anticipated that this will change. Wanted that darn necro shield too. :lol:

Also yes its true the Mesmer was extremely underated and still not played as much as others, so the general public doesnt realize its power. Heck the general public doesnt realize the power of the builds they have. I doubt most of them have even trolled through the skill section. Which is updated, FYI.

And I'm not gonna argue about the Warrior/Monk anymore....it seems like thats takin 9/10 of my posts lately. I wash my hands of it......for now.

Anyway guys I'm just interested, I mean how versatile some of these spells are, and how amazing they could be with fantastic teamwork. I've been looking at two little spells just thinking about how great team work could really suck it to a player or team. My spells of the day, Fragility and Epidemic. Say a ranger poisons his toungebiter, and then hits an enemy caster with it, or he could go for that Warrior in the front line with his poison laced powershot or dual shot. Someone then casts Epidemic on the warrior, boom the other warriors get it too. And considering the close quarters mellee requires there shouldnt be a problem with its range. Likewise if the silenced/poisoned caster was close to even one other caster, epidemic would save the team mana and effort...its like a double whammy.

The second spell I mentioned was Fragility. This one has been reduced recently :( . Still doing up to 28 damage each time a foe suffers or recovers from a new condition but only for up to 18 seconds. This would require a bit of focused fire. I would suspect that all ranger guild might apply techniques like this. Ofcourse if this actually reapplies the damage each time a poison enchanted arrow hits them....then that damage would definatly reach high proportions in no time at all. Just one ranger should be able to get off a min of 4 shots, thats an extra 100 damage not including any other buffs he had. I find little spells like that interesting.

~Kazama Fury~
23-11-2004, 20:35
i cant imagine people underestimate mesmers after fighting those jelly dudes that cast mesmer spells on you. they're the most feared!

Tsume
23-11-2004, 23:07
Yah...thats when silence comes in useful. Those didnt really annoy me...as much as the Frost Dryders. Those guys got me down to around 40 health every time there was more than 2 of em. Forty health is a little too low for comfort if you ask me. And the Troll Uguent is the only thing that saves me...It neutralizes the darn drain spells.

UndeadBehlial
24-11-2004, 01:21
hmmm so R/Mo or R/Me is the question. Mo and Me both have pluses (mo is mainly resurrect though, and reserves points for ranger spells, where as Me would consume a few attribute points i'm sure and just uses more energy, however is more offensive)

Tsume
24-11-2004, 17:09
For me theres a no contest. I vie for R/Me. (i know...i know...duuuh)

Oh Slytas.

Zero
25-11-2004, 12:50
ranger/mesmer as well, i played that class through both weekends and it seems to work well. Though i mainly focused on ranger skills with 2 or 3 mesmer skills as back-up. I think i'll give up on a pet next time (although they make good tanks if used right) and go more offensive with my mesmer spells.

~Kazama Fury~
25-11-2004, 18:50
i am leaning towards warrior/monk, the one i used previously. i will serve as a tank mainly and keep the opponent distracted.

if we can really rely on someone's (or 2) monk's skills, knowing they would heal me exactly when needed, then i would go for a warrior/ranger.

UndeadBehlial
25-11-2004, 22:13
haha kaz nice spirited avatar.

well everything gets reset when it comes out right? Cause to get a strong guild ranking ASAP, our first chars should come out decently strong. Just food for thought, however go crazy on the betas. If no one will make one, i guess i'll make a monk when the game comes out, I was planning to make one anyway, but it seems all W and R these days. Lets not forget how powerful elementalists are and how vital monks are to our cause.

~Kazama Fury~
25-11-2004, 22:18
i would love to be the main damage dealer, i would go for elementalist/mesmer, but at the moment, i just like taking damage and picking off the casters. :O

diab made a monk, hes really efficient at it, as well.

HappyPants
25-11-2004, 23:22
I am anxiously awaiting the next beta event so I can finally get a chance to play with some of you. I want get into some pvp action, and I am also curious at what they did with the W/Mo who in my opinion was fine for pvp, for pvm he might have been over powered though. I also want to play my R/Mo again. I crafted him a whole bunch of lvl 20 equipment, but it was so close to the end of the beta event that I never got to play him or try out any of the higher damage bows I found. I also dread the day that the beta event comes because I have some big deadlines that have to be met on December 3rd.

Tsume
26-11-2004, 01:50
Happy make sure you get your business taken care of, wouldnt want you to get in trouble. But do stop by to spill some Mantle blood by my side. :wink2:

Xarley also has a monk. Me?...Im totally pro mesmer and necromancer and have a thing for the rangers.

And remember elementalist may have big damage, but some spells also reduce their effectiveness. Geez...Mesmers can counter anything.

UndeadBehlial
26-11-2004, 13:31
So looking at the bonus items for the beta, I think that EBGames DOES have the best out out of what I plan to use. Although I play all my chars as if they were warriors (hehe), the bonus from the bow to Marksmanship is a good skill. I thought about the Icon for a good monk, but it gives the bonus to Smiting Prayers. THe necro shield is good because Death Magic has some nice ones, but if I were to make a necro i'd stick with my Drain n Gain build I think :) (still trying to coin that Drain n Gain phrase!) and get a good backup. As far as the shield/hammer go, I dont even know what Tactics and Hammer mastery are enough to compare.

W00t to the victors!

Tsume
26-11-2004, 21:43
Since this thread has kinda evolved into discussion relating to professions and builds, I thought I would notify all of you of the move of the Warrior's Healing Signet from the Strength attribute to the Tactics attribute. I dont know if any of you use it, but I thought I would state it just incase.

Troll Unguent has also been moved to Wilderness Survival instead of Beast Mastery. I only noted the healing changes.

Later tonight I'm going to cross reference the old spell lists to the new ones and try to point out any significant changes.

UndeadBehlial
27-11-2004, 01:57
Cool, theres a site telling all these changes? Is it the official GW site? All I wanna know is that what you post is legit. Also i'm glad Troll Unguent has been moved, as for Apply Poison i'll have at least 6 levels in Wilderness Survival anyway.

Tsume
27-11-2004, 03:39
Everything I say is just regurgitated information indirectly coming from all of the people playing the game on a regulary basis. I just finished cross referencing all professions, except the warrior, and after I'm done with him I'll post all the findings. As for now I feel like I'm about to pass out. It will probably be tommorrow some time. And it will most likely be loooong.

And my current ranger build also benefits from the move of Troll Unguent. And Apply Poison doesnt require any ammount of Wilderness Survival anymore. It now modifies how many seconds poison takes effect. 3-13 seconds. I'm serious...basically the entire professions listings have been overhauled. Very few were left unmodified. The Ranger profession even has 4 new spells.

Anyway, I'll post all the details pretty soon.

Naliworld
27-11-2004, 05:25
Gah, was hoping the Troll Unguent would stay in Beast Mastery for my N/R pet specialist. :/

~Kazama Fury~
27-11-2004, 10:42
sorry guys, i dont think ill be able to join you guys in this beta weekend either.

finals.

UndeadBehlial
27-11-2004, 11:53
Dang I was hoping apply poison would stay as it was. 12 second as it is was very very short and you could prolly only get off 3ish shots in that time. 3 seconds isnt even a shot really. I'm very disappointed with this, because to get to 10 you prolly will need 15 points in the skill (unless it goes up 1 for 1....)

Beowulf
27-11-2004, 12:11
sorry guys, i dont think ill be able to join you guys in this beta weekend either.

finals.
Come now boy what is best in life?

Tsume
27-11-2004, 15:46
Apply Poison still remains as a preperation for 12 seconds. Its just that now instead of poison lasting the standard 15? seconds, it now lasts 3-13. So thats a -4 drain per second, but you can get off four shots that way. So a base damage (collectively) of 48 at the first level, plus your physical damage and such. It wont be as effective in the early levels, but if you get a decent attribute number in it, it will be beneficial. They did this with a few spells, cutting off the required attribute levels.

UndeadBehlial
27-11-2004, 18:43
Apply Poison still remains as a preperation for 12 seconds. Its just that now instead of poison lasting the standard 15? seconds, it now lasts 3-13. So thats a -4 drain per second, but you can get off four shots that way. So a base damage (collectively) of 48 at the first level, plus your physical damage and such. It wont be as effective in the early levels, but if you get a decent attribute number in it, it will be beneficial. They did this with a few spells, cutting off the required attribute levels.


But you're telling us whatgot changed? I do admit that the poison lasted a very long time and was superior to even Conjure Phantasm, which is the main reason I figured R/Mo could be equal to R/Me. I'll have to test it again this beta. SPEAKING of which... eh ill post in the proper thread.




ALSO: When I said there was an interim beta test, there really...wasnt... :uhhuh: . This forum was dying and Xircon and I agreed that we needed a spark to get people to start thinking about the game again and also to think about what you'd like to change if the areanet forums DO start becoming active. It will help make informed criticism if it comes time, although this thread went crazy off topic on every level. So, as Xircon told me, it's time to move from discussing the game in general to fighting strategies, so lets make a thread for that (or dont we have one?)

Tsume
27-11-2004, 21:30
But you're telling us whatgot changed?
Yeah I just got done posting up the changes that should be noted.


I do admit that the poison lasted a very long time and was superior to even Conjure Phantasm.
At early levels yes Poison was superior, it lasts 15 seconds at -4 per second making those Mountain Dwarves' health drain pretty fast. Thats a collective 60 damage. But Conjure drains at -5 per second, so as soon as you had a high enough Conjure it was superior. A maxed Conjure drained 90 health over 14 seconds. But that has changed now. Conjure now has a maximum duration of 12 seconds, making it 60 as well. Poison (from most skills) lasts up to 13 seconds, putting it at 52. And since the ammount of time increases per level of the attribute now, they are fairly equal with Conjure probably having the edge again.





ALSO: When I said there was an interim beta test, there really...wasnt... :uhhuh: . This forum was dying and Xircon and I agreed that we needed a spark to get people to start thinking about the game again and also to think about what you'd like to change if the areanet forums DO start becoming active. It will help make informed criticism if it comes time, although this thread went crazy off topic on every level. So, as Xircon told me, it's time to move from discussing the game in general to fighting strategies, so lets make a thread for that (or dont we have one?)

Yah I knew it was a hoax. Even so, I did the most discussion on it with you. Great Plan :thumbsup: . :uhhuh:
This forum wont really pick up until we get more members, don't ya think?

And do we want to publicly debate the Order's fighting strategies? In the early stages I dont see any immediate problems as we are still learning, but...we cant openly discuss our strategies in PvP can we? Seems like a risk. .....ofcourse if you make the thread, ya know I'll be there. :wink2: