Graphics card

[Vexion]

I am thinking about upgrading my GeForce MX 440 128mb to a Radeon 9600 256, and I was wondering what kind of improvement I'll see. Also, what is the difference between the 9600 and the 9600xt?

[Gyro Scope]

I would highly recommend you get a 9600 XT 128 MB over a 9600 256 MB. I upgraded from my 256 MB 9600 reg. to a 128 MB 9600 XT (both about the same cost at the time) and got a decent performance increase. In fact it put me from just lagging to just ahead of the lag. =)

Reserve 256 MB's of RAM for video cards that you plan on using to play games at 1600x1200 with. Although by summer 2004 this will change from 128 MB/256 MB to 256 MB/512 MB, but still, a 9600 XT, not a 9600 regardless. It's not like the 9600's will really use 256 MB in Guild Wars anyway.

9800 Pro and above will make use of 256 MB RAM, but I've never seen a card below that actually utilize a lot of it.

[trafalgar-zero]

I would highly recommend you get a 9600 XT 128 MB over a 9600 256 MB. I upgraded from my 256 MB 9600 reg. to a 128 MB 9600 XT (both about the same cost at the time) and got a decent performance increase. In fact it put me from just lagging to just ahead of the lag. =)

Reserve 256 MB's of RAM for video cards that you plan on using to play games at 1600x1200 with. Although by summer 2004 this will change from 128 MB/256 MB to 256 MB/512 MB, but still, a 9600 XT, not a 9600 regardless. It's not like the 9600's will really use 256 MB in Guild Wars anyway.

9800 Pro and above will make use of 256 MB RAM, but I've never seen a card below that actually utilize a lot of it.

i agree with Gyro Scope

i'm using a NVIDIA GeForce FX 5500 256 mb, for only $70 or so at Best Buy, and it runs some of the higher demanding games with relative ease.
Just a thought for people reading and don't have the $300+ for a video card.

[Dreamsmith]

Virtually anything you can get your hands on these days will be an improvement over an MX 440, although the bare minimum you should look at is an FX 5200 (cheapest card around with DirectX 9 support). Quick and dirty summary:

Best bargain-basement ($49) choice: GeForce FX 5200
Best mid-range solution: Radeon 9600 XT
Best top-end (the bleeding-edge): GeForce 6800 Ultra

[Gyro Scope]

Best top-end (the bleeding-edge): GeForce 6800 Ultra

Technically that would be Dual SLI GeForce 6800 Ultras! =D
Unfortunately I think those are still only available in $10,000 Alienware PCs. =(
Intel motherboards should be out sooner or later that have SLI capabilities built in though. Of course that's over $1000 on the videocards themselves. That and it sounds weird talking about two video cards...

As far as single cards go, the X800 XT PE is technically the fastest card right now, but that's just in benchmarks. Useless FPS now don't really matter, what'll count is when the 6800 Ultra outlasts the X800 XT PE because of advanced features like SM 3.0 and the 32 Bit FPP.

[Dreamsmith]

... what'll count is when the 6800 Ultra outlasts the X800 XT PE because of advanced features like SM 3.0 and the 32 Bit FPP.
*drool* :drool:

[LeftAlone-]

Uhhh... i feel so 'LeftAlone' .. :/

My comp has 256 RAM and a Radeon 9200 card... lag in guild wars all the time...
Atleast im getting my RAM up by another 256, but idunno if that will help much with the lag..
My comp is a 3 year old piece of poOo... and dad wont buy me a new one.... sucks to be poor...

[Diak]

Hello Vexion, I can brief you on the upgrade you are talking about pretty precisely - I had a 64MB GF440mx and bought a Connect3d RADEON 9600pro with 256MBs and this is what I had to find:

-GW first of all runs much smoother (@40FPS) in 1024x768 with all the graphic options turned on except for shadows which is set to low. The lag I get is from my DSL provider :rolleyes:
-games with a tougher engine like doom3 don't gain much (changed from ~17fps to ~28fps) but are playable without glitches and at a decent quality.
-a 9600pro still isn't good enough for 3D benchmark software like 3DMark to provide good results.


Overall, if you choose the 9600 for it's low price you still get competitive gfx imho. However I recommend another provider than Connect3D, because support (drivers, mainly) for this build is extremely low.

[Gyro Scope]

My friend had a Geforce 2 MX 200 up until I think it was this August or something when he got a 9600 XT... He also had a 700 Mhz CPU and 256 MB RAM to go with it up until his dad gave him a 1.3 Ghz CPU and upped his RAM total to 384 MB about a year ago.

So don't feel left alone, left alone! =D
Oh, and I also had a Pentium 166 with 64 MB RAM (that was the only excessive part) some 4 MB video card (not really sure) and an always full 2 GB HDD until 3 years ago, when I finally talked my dad into getting a new PC.
Of course then he didn't want to do anything after THAT one, so I had to build my own.

[HavocHawk]

Hmmm I plan on upgrading from the same graphics card but I'm getting a Radeon 9600 Pro for $119 from newegg plus a free paperweight(can't beat free like in Guild Wars). Can't go any higher on price though :mad:

[Gyro Scope]

Hmmm I plan on upgrading from the same graphics card but I'm getting a Radeon 9600 Pro for $119 from newegg plus a free paperweight(can't beat free like in Guild Wars). Can't go any higher on price though :mad:

$120 is a hard budget to find a decent graphics card within... When I first built my PC I set the limit at $150 because I didn't really know what I was doing yet. I recommend you go to about $180 if you can afford it somehow, because that's where all the cards that will last more than a year start at.

If you can't, then that card is certainly worth the price. It's the best card you'll find for that price in any highly reliable place.

[HavocHawk]

Wish I could :( Oh well at least I still get a free paperweight and thats all that matters

[trafalgar-zero]

Hey if it doesn't run smooth, just chuck the paperweight at it!

Ya it makes me mad to see a $3000+ at Best Buy, and turn a month or two later and see the price cut in half. Just get a savings planned figure out and buy a computer periodicaly.

I got my first in 1995 or so
Second was 2000 (was a huge jump in performance)
My third, the one i'm using right now, 2004 August.

I'll probly get my next one, i mean make it, just before i graduate from College. By then I'll know enough about computers, to confortable put it together. I was scared in August to put my video card in because i thought i would break it. Only took me an 20 min.... first one ever put in.

[Dreamsmith]

Atleast im getting my RAM up by another 256, but idunno if that will help much with the lag..
I would guess it will help quite a bit. With only 256MB RAM, you're probably paging a lot (using your swapfile rather than real RAM) -- that really hurts.

[LeftAlone-]

I would guess it will help quite a bit. With only 256MB RAM, you're probably paging a lot (using your swapfile rather than real RAM) -- that really hurts.

It does hurt :(
My lag is something that is on constantly, there is never breaks. Its not like i freeze for 1 min in one spot, im always on the move, but it always chops. Many times i died just becaus when i was running away and turning, i didnt see me turn, when i really turned so much that i just ran back to the monsters and died.. its very annoying, and i cannot imagine playing like that in retail version. I can live with it one weekend.. but no more.

[Dreamsmith]

Yeah, I was playing with 384MB RAM last weekend, and I was occasionally choppy. My frame rate would be fine for a while, but then I'd go really choppy for a few seconds (while the system paged in something that had been paged out) and then back to normal. So in went a new stick of RAM. (That's two upgrades, video card and RAM, I've made so far for this game -- heh, so far this game has cost me $100 and I haven't purchased it yet!)

[LeftAlone-]

heh, so far this game has cost me $100 and I haven't purchased it yet!)

hehe :)

This game gonna cost me a completely new comp, and I have no idea how i will get me that new comp, as my parents cant buy... poor.. ya know..

My current one is a 3 year old box... Radeon 9200 videocard and terrible 256 RAM.....
I also have some spyware or something, i think, that nor SpyBot S&D nor Ad-Aware can find... it slows my internet after I use it for about 10 mins.. forcing me to restart my comp becaus pages wont open. Nowadays only thing I do on internet, is read these forums, and out of here as fast as possible, so that i copuld go play other games online without having to restart my comp.
Darnit ...this really sucks.. :hanky:

[Dreamsmith]

I also have some spyware or something, i think, that nor SpyBot S&D nor Ad-Aware can find... it slows my internet after I use it for about 10 mins.. forcing me to restart my comp becaus pages wont open.
Sounds like a browser hijack. Download a program called "HijackThis" and check off everything that you don't want or don't know what it is. When it doubt, remove it. The worst that can happen is you have to reinstall something you really do use. HijackThis can fix just about anything, including things too new or too obscure for AdAware to recognize. It just doesn't do it automatically, you need to tell it what to remove, but like I said, when in doubt, just remove everything, and reinstall what you actually need.

[LeftAlone-]

Thanks 'nameless one' aka Dreamsmith :) (me dont like calling ppl by their nicks...)
Ill go test it.

Just a while ago, when i was doing disc clean up and defragmenting, it found a trojan horse and removed it... maybe thats whats bee ncausing me problems lately.... i didnt have this problem with net slowing down until after last time i did defragmentation and clean up.. hmmm.. been on interned for about 40 mins now.. everything fine so far..

And my name is Arthur :P

[LeftAlone-]

EDIT:
Ok.. that was quick... looks like nothing related to spywares or what so ever harmful.. or maybe i just dont understand all those mad codes.. im not good with comps... and english being not my language, it aint any1 easyer...
I did scan my comp with Ad-Aware and Spybot S&D before defragmentation and clean up.. AD found 2 tracking coockies and Spybot found some DSO thingy with 5 data miners or something like that.. funny thing.. it finds the same everytime i scan with it.. hmmm...

[Dreamsmith]

If you scan, reboot, and find the same thing, the problem is the malware is running in memory when Spybot S&D removes it, and it's simply reinstalling itself after Spybot S&D removes it. Try booting into Safe Mode (F8 during bootup) and repairing from there, then reboot normally and see if it isn't gone for good.

And my friends call me GT. :D

[LeftAlone-]

Hmmmm... interesting... the 5 things it found all had internet explorer in their names..




EDIT: How do i know im in safe mode? I clicked F8 when restarting comp, and it came wiht black window saying something like: Use Arrow keys to select your operating system and then click ENTER.. there was just 1 option to select, my windows XP professional.. i selected it, enter, and everything seems like always... it just went on and thats it.. so.. how do i know? :S

[LeftAlone-]

EditPart2:

What does word 'exploit' mean? I jam doing the scan again, and it already found the same thing.. DSO Exploit... 5 entries..
The 5 things are all called 'Data source object exploit' and they go somewheat like:
HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-20\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Inter net Settings\Zones\0\1004\=W=3

[LeftAlone-]

Mmmm....
I've sold my computer.. :) .... but i wont have a new one for a couple of months.. :(

I was looking at comps in stores, and theres one that looks pretty good to me..
What i wanted to ask, is if a videocard 'nVidia GeForce FX5500 256 Mt' is any good?

Other specs of that comp are:
Intel Celeron D340 (2.8 GHz)
512 Mt DDR- memory
80 Gt hard disc (thats what its in english..hard disc.. i think..)

It costs 1196 euros, and thats about as hight as I can go....


Mmmm.. any1 has any suggestion or anything toshare? Make me choose maybe something better I dont know about, but whitchs price could still be the same, or even better, cheaper...?

Thanks.

[LeftAlone-]

I've sold my computer.. :) .... but i wont have a new one for a couple of months.. :(

I was looking at comps in stores, and theres one that looks pretty good to me..
What i wanted to ask, is if a videocard 'nVidia GeForce FX5500 256 Mt' is any good?

Other specs of that comp are:
Intel Celeron D340 (2.8 GHz)
512 Mt DDR- memory
80 Gt hard disc (thats what its in english..hard disc.. i think..)

It costs 1196 euros, and thats about as hight as I can go....


Mmmm.. any1 has any suggestion or anything toshare? Make me choose maybe something better I dont know about, but whitchs price could still be the same, or even better, cheaper...?

Thanks.

[Gyro Scope]

Originally Posted by DreamSmith
heh, so far this game has cost me $100 and I haven't purchased it yet!)

That's nothing, I spent $50 on RAM (and it would've been $100 if I hadn't seen a rebate in the sunday ads, lol) $200 on a video card (minus $50 for the ATI coupon, at least effectively) all for Half-Life²! =D and I recently bought a 200 GB HDD for $80 to have space for HL2 mods.

Lets see... that's $330 compared to $100! =P

[LeftAlone-]

I've sold my computer.. :) .... but i wont have a new one for a couple of months.. :(

I was looking at comps in stores, and theres one that looks pretty good to me..
What i wanted to ask, is if a videocard 'nVidia GeForce (#) FX5500 256 Mt' is any good?

Other specs of that comp are:
Intel Celeron D340 (2.8 GHz)
512 Mt DDR- memory
80 Gt hard disc (thats what its in english..hard disc.. i think..)

It costs 1196 euros, and thats about as hight as I can go....


Mmmm.. any1 has any suggestion or anything toshare? Make me choose maybe something better I dont know about, but whitchs price could still be the same, or even better, cheaper...?

Thanks.


EEDIT:
Im on my bros comp now.... hes comp is even older than mine.. 5 years old :P
I installed Ad-Aware here, and it found 381 infections :P removed em, and now his internet working better than did on my comp.. :)

[Ander Moonshadow]

I don't know where you are, but you can definitely get a much better computer for 1200 euros. I could probably buy a laptop with those specs for that price.

Are you buying a new Screen etc. with it?

[Mythwyn]

For that kinda money I could build 2 computers better then that, and cover shipping from the US, assuming that system isn't coming with a 17" LCD.

I have 3 main systems from AMD64 3400+, 3200+ and a P4 3000, all with 1GB of RAM and Raptor HDs, decent video. None of them cost that much. In fact my P4 3GHz, 1GB DDR, with a 80GB HD minus the video card will likely be sold for $700 USD or 515 EUR. I'm in the middle of building a new PCI-E DDR2 based system. Even if I had'nt gotten the $300 USD motherboard for free, it will still cost less then what your looking at with a P4 3.4GHz CPU and 1GB of DDR2.

You need to find someone that builds PCs is very into the hardware, an enthusist or technician, and take them shopping with you. If systems are that expensive there perhaps I should look into how much it would cost to ship.
=======================================
Well I went and did some checking I can almost build 2 system with far superior specs the that celeron system, I can build 3 systems like that with change. This is what I would do with that kinda money, and have plenty left.

The Names will most likely mean nothing to you, but they are some of the better names in the industry, been building with them for yours as i've learned the saving a few bucks with a "no name" company will cost you in the long run. Where it mattered for warrenty reasons, I went retail parts.
Just about everything has 3 year warrenty

*ANTEC Mid Tower Case with 300W Power Supply

*ASUS "K8V-X" VIA K8T800 Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU -RETAIL
3-5 Year Warrenty

*AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512k L2 Cache, - Retail 3 Year Warrenty

*SAMSUNG 120GB 7200RPM 8MB Buffer SATA Hard Drive, OEM - 3 Year Warrenty

*PDP SYSTEMS Memory Dual Channel Kit 184-Pin 1GB (512MBx2) DDR PC-3200, Cas Latency: 2-3-2-5-T1 - Retail Lifetime Warrenty

*SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-Bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, OEM 1 Year Warrenty

*Samsung Black 52X32X52X16 DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive, OEM

*NU Technology Black 16X DL DVD+RW/-RW Drive, 16X DVD+R, 4X DVD+RW, 16X DVD-R, 4X DVD-RW, 2.4X DVD+R DL

*Samsung Black 1.44MB 3.5inch Floppy Disk Drive

865.USD = 638.EUR

*Add NESO PIXO A700 17" 16ms [1280 x 1024] LCD Monitor
Retail with 3 Year warrenty

1100.USD = 811.EUR

Even with a good 17" LCD you'd have 385.EUR / 522.USD to spare.
Thats cost of parts with shipping in US. I know this is'nt a solution for you but now you can see what can be done for that kinda money. I have no ideal how much it would cost to ship this system to your location, have to be less then 100.EUR.

[Mystic Arrow]

*ANTEC Mid Tower Case with 300W Power Supply

*ASUS "K8V-X" VIA K8T800 Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU -RETAIL
3-5 Year Warrenty

*AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512k L2 Cache, - Retail 3 Year Warrenty

*SAMSUNG 120GB 7200RPM 8MB Buffer SATA Hard Drive, OEM - 3 Year Warrenty

*PDP SYSTEMS Memory Dual Channel Kit 184-Pin 1GB (512MBx2) DDR PC-3200, Cas Latency: 2-3-2-5-T1 - Retail Lifetime Warrenty

*SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-Bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, OEM 1 Year Warrenty

*Samsung Black 52X32X52X16 DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive, OEM

*NU Technology Black 16X DL DVD+RW/-RW Drive, 16X DVD+R, 4X DVD+RW, 16X DVD-R, 4X DVD-RW, 2.4X DVD+R DL

*Samsung Black 1.44MB 3.5inch Floppy Disk Drive

865.USD = 638.EUR

*Add NESO PIXO A700 17" 16ms [1280 x 1024] LCD Monitor
Retail with 3 Year warrenty

1100.USD = 811.EUR

Even with a good 17" LCD you'd have 385.EUR / 522.USD to spare.
Thats cost of parts with shipping in US. I know this is'nt a solution for you but now you can see what can be done for that kinda money. I have no ideal how much it would cost to ship this system to your location, have to be less then 100.EUR.

Wow thats one hell of a system, though it could be cheaper, I dont think he needs a DVD burner, and change the Samsung CD burner for a Plextor. I've tried both ATI 9600XT and nVidia 5700U, and the 5700U its somehow better, with the rest of the money he can get a WD Raptor with 74GB, which you know gives a huge performance boost. I think thats for about the same money and I believe he'll get better performance.

[Ryvaleus Stormchild]

One small question if any of you could answer this for me. What should I upgrade for my PC? I'm thinking either my 512MB DDR RAM to 1GB (or more) or my FX5200 256MB GeForce card to something better.

My CPU is an Intel P4 2.8 GHz chip on an Asus P4P800-E Deluxe motherboard. And I have about US$200 to spend. I can stretch it to around $350 if need be but I'd really prefer not to.

I'd also like to have some money left over to change my CPU casing though it's not really necessary. ^^

Thanks in advance!

[Aire]

$350 for a decent LCD screen! thats quite a lot, you can get a decent TFT for £160 in the UK :p with free shipping ;) and 3 year warranty

Still, that is a nice set up. Pity hardware is so expensive in the UK

/Aire :)

[Mythwyn]

Aire. $350 for monitor? The 17” 16ms monitor I mentioned is $235 US or £122.

Ryvaleus,
I would say (definitely) go for a new video card. First off, I prefer ATi based solutions, [I currently run 9800Pro / 9600XT AIW / Radeon 7000 (in my server) and have a couple nVidia based cards as well but lost faith in them a while back [Losing faith in ATi when it comes to actually shipping announced products]. I will consider either nVidia or ATi when making recommendations ignoring my personal preferences. I take into effect performance, cost [bang for the buck], and power requirements [some cards will overdraw weak power supplies]. That said, here’s what I would consider. Ignoring features and focusing on gaming benchmarks, which vary from game to game and card to card by display settings [anti-aliasing/filtering/resolution] I’ve grouped current cards by “average” performance regardless of price. [Cards that require an auxiliary power connection [Bracket 2] and above should have a good 400Watt PS].

Even at the Bracket 1 level you’d be more then doubling the performance of your FX5200. All though people will argue chip preferences forever, as an ATi fan, I’d have to say the bang for buck winner is the GeForce 6800 128MB card if you keep your resolution at 1280x1024 or lower. If your running a DELL, HP/Compaq, Gateway/Emachine and have a 300Watt PS I’d lean towards the ATi 9600XT 256MB card. If you hunt around you should be able to find a 128MB 9600XT All-In-Wonder, which not only out performs the 9600XT but adds TV/FM Tuner and video/radio capture for around $175.00. Of course price and availability in your area will vary.

[Performance Bracket 1]
ATI RADEON 9600XT 128MB $134.00 / 256MB $150.00
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700 Ultra 128MB $177.50

[Performance Bracket 2] Require Power Connection
ATI RADEON 9800 256MB $170.00 / ATI RADEON 9800PRO 128MB $210.00
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900XT 128MB $177.50

[Performance Bracket 3] Require Power Connection
ATI RADEON 9800XT 256MB $319.50
NVIDIA GeForce FX5950 Ultra 256MB $385.00

[Performance Bracket 4] Require Power Connection
ATI RADEON X800 PRO 256MB $386.00
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 128MB $268.00 / 256MB $339.00

[Vexion]

Just to let everyone know, I decided to get the Radeon 9600xt. Wow. Simply wow. I can't believe what I've been missing, all of my games are crystal clear and my lag has dropped to an all time low. If you have any card older than this one I strongly recommend to upgrade it ASAP.

[Ryvaleus Stormchild]

Thanks a lot Mythwyn! I didn't expect to receive such a detailed response on what I was looking for. This'll make things easier, choosing graphics cards have always been a headache for me.

[PoBoy]

Well a tip for choosing a graphics card in the future would be to go with nVidia. nVidia has been getting better FPS in just about every high demanding game. And they're even getting better frame rates in games built with an engine designed for ATI graphics cards. For instance the nVidia 6600GT is doing really well for a card around $200. It got better frame rates in a lot of games against ATI cards. An example would be nVidia's 6600GT vs. ATI's X700 PRO the 6600GT got just about the same frame rates. Both cards cost around the same amount of money. But the comparison of these cards was done in 3DMark03 and nVidia has better support for game engines. Also ATI claims to have performance boosting drivers but they had no affect against the 6600GT. So if you were to take these cards into a game the nVidia card would do better. For instance in Unreal Tournament 2004 the 6600GT scored 112.3 FPS leaving the X700 behind and competing with the X800XT which scored 115.6. The price range of the X800XT is $536-$600. The price range for the 6600GT is $200-$250. So basically you can get nearly as good FPS with a $200 video card as a $550 video card. In Doom 3 the 6600GT actually does better than the X800XT. Also remember that nVidia is starting to score higher FPS in games built for ATI.

Hope this helps someone. If you have any questions just ask.

[Mythwyn]

Although I did'nt include PCI-Express cards since he has AGP, my recommendations where based on just about 10 different gaming benchmarks, 3Dmark was just one of them, and as a synthetic, isn't reflective of real world performace, no single benchmark is.

Also concidered is different resolutions 1024x768 and up, as well as AA and AF settings. No one chipset can claim to own all settings for all benchmarks, if someone was only ever going to play a single game, you can easily recommend the best chip for that game. e.g. DOOM3 is best played on FX chips [for now] but who plays only one game. Gotta look at the averages.

Cards listed are comparable in performance in their bracket based on an average in many benchmarks at various resolution an AA/AF settings.

For AGP cards I gave bang for the buck to an FX card. For PCI-E cards I plan on waiting for the X800XL due out Jan05. But I'm taking into concideration not only averaged performace results for the money, but power consumpsion, and cooling among other things.

[PoBoy]

Ok a couple of things, were on the same boat as far as the settings were talking about and the benchmark information. But I was also including the information of how the cards do in multiple games and I used to have a chart of more games but i cant find it right now. Another thing, I too am talking about AGP cards. And I was just hinting at some more options and information for Ryvaleus Stormchild and anyone else when choosing a graphics card. And as for giving more bang for the buck I was also providing cards with that description. The ATI architecture is good but the nVidia driver support is better and nVidia is also due to have better support in the future. ATI keeps putting cards out to compete with nVidia's cards but so far the cards ATI puts out to compete with them are not as good in just about all things. Although in the past ATI has had the history of better architecture over nVidia and nVidia having better driver support than ATI who knows for sure what that situation will be like in the future. But by looking at nVidia and how theyve been doing recently and what their plans are they seem to be doing better than ATI. And this could affect performance in games that are widely played today and may be widely played in the future.

And I'm not trying to get on your bad side or anything. I'm just stating some more information. Although I apologize for not providing the settings and types of benchmarks i was stating results for and for not being specific on the format of graphics card i was talking about.

-PoBoy

[Gyro Scope]

I'll sum up everything you need to know about graphics cards in a few sentences (granted there's one or two exceptions, but based on same-priced cards this is about 95% accurate)

The Nvidia 6 series is better than the ATI X series, although the X700's and X800's are still excellent cards.
The ATI 9 series is better than the Nvidia FX/5 series (don't get an FX card, they're full of hardware based shader problems and image quality is worse than the ATI counterpart)
The obsolete Nvidia series are generally a bit better than the obsolete ATI series... although if you go back far enough, the 3DFX cards will blow everything else away.

[LeftAlone-]

Just to let everyone know, I decided to get the Radeon 9600xt. Wow. Simply wow. I can't believe what I've been missing, all of my games are crystal clear and my lag has dropped to an all time low. If you have any card older than this one I strongly recommend to upgrade it ASAP.

My new omp has now a 9600XT 256Mt.. :)

Havent gotto test it yet, as the comp I got had only 19.5 Gt on it, instead of the 80Gt it should of had.
Should be able to test it with CS today and GW tomorrow <3

[LeftAlone-]

For that kinda money I could build 2 computers better then that, and cover shipping from the US, assuming that system isn't coming with a 17" LCD.

I have 3 main systems from AMD64 3400+, 3200+ and a P4 3000, all with 1GB of RAM and Raptor HDs, decent video. None of them cost that much. In fact my P4 3GHz, 1GB DDR, with a 80GB HD minus the video card (#) will likely be sold for $700 USD or 515 EUR. I'm in the middle of building a new PCI-E DDR2 based system. Even if I had'nt gotten the $300 USD motherboard for free, it will still cost less then what your looking at with a P4 3.4GHz CPU and 1GB of DDR2.

You need to find someone that builds PCs is very into the hardware, an enthusist or technician, and take them shopping with you. If systems are that expensive there perhaps I should look into how much it would cost to ship.
=======================================
Well I went and did some checking I can almost build 2 system with far superior specs the that celeron system, I can build 3 systems like that with change. This is what I would do with that kinda money, and have plenty left.

The Names will most likely mean nothing to you, but they are some of the better names in the industry, been building with them for yours as i've learned the saving a few bucks with a "no name" company will cost you in the long run. Where it mattered for warrenty reasons, I went retail parts.
Just about everything has 3 year warrenty

*ANTEC Mid Tower Case with 300W Power Supply

*ASUS "K8V-X" VIA K8T800 Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU -RETAIL
3-5 Year Warrenty

*AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512k L2 Cache, - Retail 3 Year Warrenty

*SAMSUNG 120GB 7200RPM 8MB Buffer SATA Hard Drive, OEM - 3 Year Warrenty

*PDP SYSTEMS Memory Dual Channel Kit 184-Pin 1GB (512MBx2) DDR PC-3200, Cas Latency: 2-3-2-5-T1 - Retail Lifetime Warrenty

*SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON (#) 9600XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-Bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, OEM 1 Year Warrenty

*Samsung Black 52X32X52X16 DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive, OEM

*NU Technology Black 16X DL DVD+RW/-RW Drive, 16X DVD+R, 4X DVD+RW, 16X DVD-R, 4X DVD-RW, 2.4X DVD+R DL

*Samsung Black 1.44MB 3.5inch Floppy Disk Drive

865.USD = 638.EUR

*Add NESO PIXO A700 17" 16ms [1280 x 1024] LCD Monitor
Retail with 3 Year warrenty

1100.USD = 811.EUR

Even with a good 17" LCD you'd have 385.EUR / 522.USD to spare.
Thats cost of parts with shipping in US. I know this is'nt a solution for you but now you can see what can be done for that kinda money. I have no ideal how much it would cost to ship this system to your location, have to be less then 100.EUR.

Now that just suck.
Ill be lucky to get that in finland for 1800€

The comp i now bought is:
AMD Sempron 3000
512 DDR
ATI Radeon 9600XT 256
80Gb
Norton a+f 3 years free
Windows Xp home
17" TFT

1099€ and it was on sales. original price was 1248€

[Mythwyn]

Well as to the money spent... Nothing to be done about that.

The system however is a fairly nice one, exspecially compaired to the first celeron based unit you looked at for just about the same money. It should serve you very well for some time. Compaired to some of the units i've seen listed here, your well in the upper level. :)

[Larin Skyarrow]

Ahh... you people have bottomless pockets... or just really big ones..

I end up upgrading every few months... maybe 6-7... got a 9600xt 128 for 200 bucks when it was released last year... its very good... worth the price last year but... this year i'd get a 9800 pro if you can find one for 200 bucks... but i was considering a 6600gt... same price.. better performance though...

I squeeze every ounce out of my system and does well for such an old bunch of parts... 2 256 pc2100 sticks... athlon xp 2400+ 2ghz... ep-8k3ae.. the 9600xt... audigy2... 3dmark 03 at about 3800 marks and 3dmark 05 at around 1500... doom 3 is playable.. around 20-40 fps at 1024x768 and just about everything on medium quality... the 133mhz fsb looks kinda of slow though.. :yawn: