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Zypher Wynn
23-03-2005, 13:36
In the wake of the tragic shootings in Red Lake, MN, Attorney Jack Thompson, known video game opponant, has surfaced again claiming that Jeff Weise has was also acting out a video game when he commited the multiple murders.
Thompson was on an Birmingham,AL talk radio program this morning making these claims based soley on snipets of news reports he had heard coming from the Red Lake area. He claims that Weise used the name "Angel of Death" to describe himself which Mr. Thompson claims is a video game.
However after doing an extensive web search for this game, I found that no such title exist.
I think Jack Thompson is so desperate to prove his theory correct he will draw a link to every violent act invovling teens to video games.
It is wel past time that Jack Thompson shut up and smell the stuff he is shoveling.

Update: I managed to get thru to the radio station when they were interviewing Jack Thompson to discuss his facts and such. The program host tried to challenge me by asking if I had read several classic novels or religous text to try to discredit me from the start. When I stated that I had and then began pointing out Mr. Thompson's history of using the same arguement he was using for video game violence with what he had used in the past against music and films. Then questioned his information as well as pointed out the holes in his theory, I was mysterously disconnected. apparently you are not suppose to point out the holes in Mr. Thompson's BS.
Amoung the questions that I was able to ask before the disconnection were "Where are you getting you news information that you are basing your conclusions on?" He was unable to answer this. He was also unable to answer why no one had heard of the game "Angel of Death" or explain why there was no scientific facts that can prove his claims that video games or any other form of media can cause violence.
When I got to the point of asking him about the other factors involving the shooters in the cases which he claimed video games were responsible such as mental instablity, broken homes, history of violent acts, was when I was cut off and branded as a "kook" by the show's host.
Thompson failed to answer any of this but instead moved on the the ego stroking fest of callers who support his beliefs.

Hurin66
23-03-2005, 14:46
I deffinetly agree with you here, but i guess there are just some people like that. But do not misunderstand the media is instrumental in how we perceive violence and things around us.
When every day people hear about soldiers dieing in Iraq, it suddenly becomes the 'norm', but the deah of u.s. soldiers is not a normal occurance, a drunk driving traffic accident, although one of the more common causes of death is not something to be passed off.
Media has huge effect upon us and how we perceive things, it can make as indiffrent, enraged, sympathetic to the same thing based on how information is presented.
Propaganda as an example has been used throughout history to make people believe in a certain cause or ideal.
Games are no exception, but they are certainly not the cause of the violence we need to fight. Yes, we could eliminate all games and movies as this Jack Thompson person is so anxious to do. Yet violence won't disappear, we have had it since the start of humanity as a civilization, and blaming video games won't change a thing.

Lady_Alenuska
23-03-2005, 21:23
In the wake of the tragic shootings in Red Lake, MN, Attorney Jack Thompson, known video game opponant, has surfaced again claiming that Jeff Weise has was also acting out a video game when he commited the multiple murders.
Thompson was on an Birmingham,AL talk radio program this morning making these claims based soley on snipets of news reports he had heard coming from the Red Lake area. He claims that Weise used the name "Angel of Death" to describe himself which Mr. Thompson claims is a video game.
However after doing an extensive web search for this game, I found that no such title exist.
I think Jack Thompson is so desperate to prove his theory correct he will draw a link to every violent act invovling teens to video games.
It is wel past time that Jack Thompson shut up and smell the stuff he is shoveling.

Update: I managed to get thru to the radio station when they were interviewing Jack Thompson to discuss his facts and such. The program host tried to challenge me by asking if I had read several classic novels or religous text to try to discredit me from the start. When I stated that I had and then began pointing out Mr. Thompson's history of using the same arguement he was using for video game violence with what he had used in the past against music and films. Then questioned his information as well as pointed out the holes in his theory, I was mysterously disconnected. apparently you are not suppose to point out the holes in Mr. Thompson's BS.
Amoung the questions that I was able to ask before the disconnection were "Where are you getting you news information that you are basing your conclusions on?" He was unable to answer this. He was also unable to answer why no one had heard of the game "Angel of Death" or explain why there was no scientific facts that can prove his claims that video games or any other form of media can cause violence.
When I got to the point of asking him about the other factors involving the shooters in the cases which he claimed video games were responsible such as mental instablity, broken homes, history of violent acts, was when I was cut off and branded as a "kook" by the show's host.
Thompson failed to answer any of this but instead moved on the the ego stroking fest of callers who support his beliefs.


I agree with you, however I tend to feel a worser cause of violence which is really never looked at is relgion..

Look at all the wars the loss of lives intolorence it's carried over the history of the human race and continues to do so. Yet no one really says hey wow look at those people they kill because a book or some zealot tell's them too (which sounds rather Kookish to me) Also Angel of death seem's to me at least to hint a relgious reference.

On another note haveing looked into some back ground of killer's and social and some criminal psychology I tend to believe its how mediums are precieved and ones preception on there surrounding there life and them selvess, environment.

Regardless his theory hold's up and unless theres solid proof other then speculation we need not worry... Mind you those pesky
fundelmentalists/ conservatives might have somthing to say about that.

Harmless
24-03-2005, 01:20
Seems like the suicide of the boy's father, the car crash that killed his cousin and caused his mother to be institutionalized with brain damage, and his reported depression over who he was having to live with might have had a bit more influence than a mythical video game.

Buddah
24-03-2005, 01:29
In the wake of the tragic shootings in Red Lake, MN, Attorney Jack Thompson, known video game opponant, has surfaced again claiming that Jeff Weise has was also acting out a video game when he commited the multiple murders.
Thompson was on an Birmingham,AL talk radio program this morning making these claims based soley on snipets of news reports he had heard coming from the Red Lake area. He claims that Weise used the name "Angel of Death" to describe himself which Mr. Thompson claims is a video game.
However after doing an extensive web search for this game, I found that no such title exist.
I think Jack Thompson is so desperate to prove his theory correct he will draw a link to every violent act invovling teens to video games.
It is wel past time that Jack Thompson shut up and smell the stuff he is shoveling.

Update: I managed to get thru to the radio station when they were interviewing Jack Thompson to discuss his facts and such. The program host tried to challenge me by asking if I had read several classic novels or religous text to try to discredit me from the start. When I stated that I had and then began pointing out Mr. Thompson's history of using the same arguement he was using for video game violence with what he had used in the past against music and films. Then questioned his information as well as pointed out the holes in his theory, I was mysterously disconnected. apparently you are not suppose to point out the holes in Mr. Thompson's BS.
Amoung the questions that I was able to ask before the disconnection were "Where are you getting you news information that you are basing your conclusions on?" He was unable to answer this. He was also unable to answer why no one had heard of the game "Angel of Death" or explain why there was no scientific facts that can prove his claims that video games or any other form of media can cause violence.
When I got to the point of asking him about the other factors involving the shooters in the cases which he claimed video games were responsible such as mental instablity, broken homes, history of violent acts, was when I was cut off and branded as a "kook" by the show's host.
Thompson failed to answer any of this but instead moved on the the ego stroking fest of callers who support his beliefs.
I'd look to meet this guy in real life. I'd whip out a D&D handbook and watch him make warding signs. Then I'd haul off and smack the SOB.

Zypher Wynn
24-03-2005, 06:47
I'd look to meet this guy in real life. I'd whip out a D&D handbook and watch him make warding signs. Then I'd haul off and smack the SOB.
LOL!!! He would then sue the video game companies that produce the games you play because in his mind, they would of caused you to strike him.
I looked over this guy's career and found he has a pattern of suing people who produce music, movies, and now video games he finds objectionable.
He went after 2 Live Crew over their album "Nasty As They Wanna Be" in 1989, and in 1992 he went after Ice-T over his song "Cop Killer" claiming it made people shoot police officers.
He has tried to link Columbine, The DC area sniper shootings,and many more to video games.
In 2004 he filed a complaint to the FCC against Howard Stern and Clear Channel Communication which resulted in Stern's show being pulled from 6 of the company's stations.
He has also went after the makers of the film "The Basketball Diaries" and internet porn websites in his campaign against anything he finds objectionable.
He was ordered by the Florida Supreme Court to undergo a psychiatric evaluation regarding his constant attacks on the First Ammendment which he was found to be without mental defect.
It is safe to say that anything that Jack Thompson objects to will end up in court with claims that it causes violent behavior in teens and young adults.

CorporateEliance
24-03-2005, 07:20
Violent games do not cause people to act out. Well, only mental people. If violent games made people act out, there would be way more shooting, and deaths, and stealing. Now, i have played games that Doom, CS, UT, GTA, and Tekken. Yet, I have not acted out in violence. This Jack Thompson has no idea what he is talking about. He is just trying to get Violent games banned, just because he does not like them.

lostchyld
24-03-2005, 19:11
The newspaper where I live listed off all sorts of reasons that could have triggered the kid. The Goth influence, interracial mixing on the reservation, rap music, the zombie stories he was writing, his father's suicide, his mother's institutionalization, his 58 year old grandfather's 32 year old girl friend. Oh yeah, and sympathies for Hitler. The article stated very clearly that noone had him pegged as the type of person who would pull guns on the school.

The report I just read on CNN.com stated that

In its Thursday editions, The Washington Post reported that a bus driver for a health center said he drove Weise to Thief River Falls in June, where the boy was going voluntarily to a psychiatric ward.

It also said
The newspaper also cited a cultural coordinator at Red Lake Middle School who said Weise had been hospitalized at least once for suicidal tendencies and was taking the anti-depressant Prozac.

I've been on Prozac and several other anti-depressants. A lot of those drugs aggravated the depression. He may have been misdiagnosed and on the wrong medication, I've had that happen to me so many times everyone decided I was better without the meds.

There's enough reasons based on his home life for him to have cracked and shot people. There probably isn't anyone/thing at fault because depression isn't something with a direct cause. Life just adds on top of depression until you either get over it or do something. I bet this was his something.

Zypher Wynn
24-03-2005, 23:04
There is no doubt that this kid had a lot of issues and factors which lead to him commiting these shootings. The problem is people like Jack Thompson want to use it as a way to further their personal agenda.
In the days since the shootings, no news agency has reported any link at all to video games in this shooting yet Jack Thompson persist in claiming there is. But this is not the first tiem he has tried this. Back when the Washington DC area snipers were arrested, Thompson tried to claim then that the younger shootering the case was acting out a first person shooter game. He is so obsessed with proving his theory right that he is willing to make up links to video games and violence.
The man is a propagandist who wants to breed fear in people the way Fredric Wertham did in 1954 when he went after comic books using the EXACT same theory.
Wertham claimed that comic books in the 50's were causing violence, drug use and inappropreate behavior among the Nation's youth. He was resposible for the Comic Book Code Authority being formed. And even when Wertham did manage to get a U.S Senate hearing about comic books, they found there was no link to causing violence.
The problem for Thompson is that the people are a lot more informed today than they were 50 years ago. Thank God for that too. Because if not, this guy would be able to actually succeed with his agenda of propoganda and fear.

BTW, I mentioned in the original post of this tread that Jack Thompson had mentioned a game called "Angel of Death" that did not exist. Well looking at another tread discussing DII (which I did not play) and remebering the discription of the fictional game he gave, made me realize that he was using a partial discription of DII. Since DII was to my knowledge never a console game and given this man reputation, I am willing to bet he will attack more online games like Guild Wars in the future.

Buddah
25-03-2005, 01:34
I can't even understand how the guy got on radio in the first place with his crap. Several news sources cited what they called the kids troubled behavior how in the name of responsible journalism did they allow a guy with such an agenda to spew lies.

Seriously I wish a couple local radio guy would give the freak a few minutes of air time. They'd shred him, since they are total protect the 1st Amendment types.

Kirellii
25-03-2005, 01:46
Wikipedia - "In the Bible, death is viewed under form of an angel sent from God, a being deprived of all voluntary power."

FYI

Many people misuse things to their advantage.

Ander Moonshadow
27-03-2005, 23:06
very true. Also, next time you might think of asking mr. Thompson why this has never happened in Western Europe, where there is a firearms policy worth mentioning, and where video games and music, are not censored at all.


I do not agree with putting religion at fault either though. Although I am agnostic, I have to defend religion on this point. It is people who exploit and abuse a religion to the negative, who take it to extremes, that cause the pain, not the religion itself. Islam for example is one of the most tolerant religions, far more tolerant than christianity. In Islam, women also have the same rights as men. the oppression of women in some islamic countries like Saudi-Arabia, is simply caused by men who abuse religion to improve their power, in this case over their women. It has little to do with the religion in itself.

Zypher Wynn
28-03-2005, 04:28
I agree Ander, that far too many prevert the beliefs of various religions to advance their agendas. That is partly what Jack Thompson has done in his campigns against music, films, and video games.
It is an easy direction to go to gather others to your cause. Claiming that what you oppose represents what a religous text or figure has discribed as evil makes some fearful to stand against you. They are often unsure of their faith or they are lured into supporting you out of it.
Remember the old saying, "Even Satan knows the Bible."
Another old saying which explains why those who support him often give him a forum to broadcast his propaganda is "The squeakiest wheel gets the grease."
As I pointed out, he has compared those in the video game industry that have opposed his statements to Nazi propaganists dispite the fact that he is the only one to actually be using these tactics.
Fortunatly the US Courts, US Government, and many idivisuals are not listening. However with several states like Alabama, moving to pass legistlation to ban the sale of video games to a percentage of the market, one must ask how long will it be before they start.
Currently the Alabama Bill (HB441) is still in commitee and is up for it's second read. With the remainding time and the number of bills before them, it may not make it out of commitee.
I would advise anyone who lives in the US to contact their lawmakers and ask them to vote against such bills. I hope any of these bills that manage to become law would be immediantly challenged in the courts.