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View Full Version : Give me your thoughts! Mesmer + _____ = ???



jesterbot
26-04-2005, 10:19
Just wanted to get everyone's assumptions, stereotypes, and "oh he's probably a _____" type comments about each build below. Just whatever jumps to mind when you see the class combo...

Example1: W/Mo = "self-healing tank... maybe with res"
Example2: E/Me = "fire spamming with energy renewel spells to prolong the spam"

With that in mind, let me know! Detailed or simple, it's all good!!! Also, if you don't have any idea on one, just leave it blank if you don't want to take a stab at it... (feel free to simply quote this post and fill in the gaps):


Me (pure) =

Me/W =

Me/R =

Me/N =

Me/Mo =

Me/E =

Ghostlord
26-04-2005, 10:32
my personal favorite is the M/N ,so many variations on that build,you can go with dark aura,energy denial,interrupts,mass hexes,caster/monk/warrior shutdown...necro and mesmer skills really complete each other well.

Just my $0.02 :happy53:

Zvixo
26-04-2005, 10:34
Possible first assumptions...

Me (pure) = A Fool
Me/W = Illusionary Weaponry person
Me/R = dunno...Fast Cast Nature Ritual?
Me/N = Energy/Life Sucker
Me/Mo = Fast Cast Rez/Heal
Me/E = Fast Casting Mantra of Recovery Fire Magic

That's assuming they make use of their secondary profession of course. Could very well be completely different builds obivously

jesterbot
26-04-2005, 10:40
Possible first assumptions...

Me (pure) = A Fool
Me/W = Illusionary Weaponry person
Me/R = dunno...Fast Cast Nature Ritual?
Me/N = Energy/Life Sucker
Me/Mo = Fast Cast Rez/Heal
Me/E = Fast Casting Mantra of Recovery Fire Magic

That's assuming they make use of their secondary profession of course. Could very well be completely different builds obivously

lol (about the pure Me)... something I didn't mention, but also how would you rank them (or pick top few) in terms of threat/party attack order if you were to come across them. Thanks for the early feedback guys!

Tarew
26-04-2005, 17:24
Zvixo I would LOVE to meet you in-game sometime so I can cream your ... with my pure Mesmer :D
If you build a pure Mesmer right you have a very solid allround character that can defeat pretty much everything if played correctly.
Anyway, onto the assumptions:

Pure Mesmer: Must be a brilliant player if he can make a pure Mesmer work ;)
Me/W: Illusionary Weaponry based character or caster killer with interrupts/Skull Crack
Me/R: Caster (or more specifically Monk) killer with Ranger anti-caster skills (Concussion Shot, Debilitating Shot) and most likely Domination for Backfire + interrupts.
Me/E: Pure (very fast) damage dealer, most likely with fire or earth magic (Obsidian Flame)
Me/Mo: Fast healer/ressurect OR the exact opposite which is anti-healer with Domination Magic and Smiting Magic (Scourge Healing)
Me/Nec: Many possible options usually one of the following 3:

1. Life drainer
2. Minion Master (not so much anymore since minions now only have a 3 second casting time)
3. Debuffer

Hope that helps ya :)

grimfiend
26-04-2005, 19:23
The skills which mesmers have can compliment any secondary class there is in a variety of odd, poor or extremely effective ways...

One of the things I thought when I was playing various mesmer builds over the time since the WPE was that people I noticed with the same class combination would be relatively similar to my build. This almost never turned out to be the case... but for the fun of it, I'll see what I can say about some builds and how I think they would be most powerful.

Pure Mesmer - either a foolish noob or an incredibly dangerous character... I have a build which, while I would never use pure mesmer for, is practically the same thing, using only one outside skill.

Me/W - this is hard to say, but like others have said, its the best combo to use illusionary weaponry with.

Me/Mo - Protection Magic specialist... protect your teammates with enchantments, casting powerful hexes on their enemies rendering them harmless (backfire, clumsiness, soothing images) or removing hexes and conditions from them. People know not the power of shatter hex!

Me/R - long range caster killer... the best there is. can make some devastating combos using nature rituals and mantras too.

Me/N - Mass DoT and condition specialist.

Me/E - fast damage dealer... Mesmers compliment almost any elementalist magic school. With the right combination of glyphs and mantras they can do some amazing things. Also, note that the elite skill they end up taking can make their method of dealing damage completely different from what you were expecting.

Viri
26-04-2005, 20:10
Actually pure mesmer is the best ! Ive played one last BWE. He had healing, energy regen, damage ignoring armor, caster/warrior ownage. He was good in pve and even better pvper. Ill be doing Me/Mo with smiting prayers for pvp (additional power :D ). The only thing mesmer doesnt have is aoe (well he has 1 but its not that good in pve).

jesterbot
26-04-2005, 21:29
Well basically the reason for this thread is I have come up with various pure Mesmer builds that look to be very effective at certain tasks (like shutdown, anti caster, fast damage, etc)... and was trying to decide whether to add the second class to divert attention away from the character in PvP or not.

If no one takes an Me20 seriously than there is no need... otherwise it looks like Me/N would best fit my needs (least apparent threat, and furthest from my character combos) - perfect deception.

Also what is the general targeting order in PvP?

Monk .... ________ .... ________ .... ________ .... Warrior ?

Tarew
26-04-2005, 21:46
Well basically the reason for this thread is I have come up with various pure Mesmer builds that look to be very effective at certain tasks (like shutdown, anti caster, fast damage, etc)... and was trying to decide whether to add the second class to divert attention away from the character in PvP or not.

If no one takes an Me20 seriously than there is no need... otherwise it looks like Me/N would best fit my needs (least apparent threat, and furthest from my character combos) - perfect deception.

Also what is the general targeting order in PvP?

Monk .... ________ .... ________ .... ________ .... Warrior ?

Hmm, if want to be deceptive and try to remain untargeted I would definitely not choose Necromancer as a secundary class.
This is a rather popular combination actually. Most of them are life drainers which people in general find very annoying so they usually get targeted fairly quickly.
From my experiences Mesmer/Warriors and Mesmer/Rangers usually generate the least amount of targeting. Also Mesmer/Elementalists strangely enough often seem to escape the heat as well as soon as the enemy's noticed you're not bombarding them with AoE spells.

Targeting order in general is this I think though it varies obviously:

1. Monk
2. Elementalist
3. Necromancer/Mesmer
5. Ranger
6. Warrior

jesterbot
26-04-2005, 21:50
Me/W low priority?

Why do so many people swear by their IW builds then? On paper, it looks pretty powerful (damage per second at least). Are there easy counters for them (if so what)?

Thanks for all the tips so far!

Pyro Gl
26-04-2005, 22:27
IMO, mesmers are going to be targeted equally with monks very soon, or at least close, since they can make short work of them. i would say most mesmer primaries have a lot of mesmer skills, therefore your secondary won't effect how you are targeted that much. mesmers happen to be IMO the best class against monks, and with no monks, targets won't matter that much as long as you are working with your team. anyone you traget will go down. i don't think the secondary profession really effects how you will be targeted.

enchantment removal KILLS illusion weapondry build. without illusion weaponry, their damage is pretty bad, depending on how many points they have in swordsmanship. once one of my teamates was interrupted casting illusion weaponry. without it, they did 1 damage a swing. (no swordsmanship)

Tarew
26-04-2005, 22:34
Warriors are always low priority due to their tanking capabilities and the fact that they usually get healed by the monk(s).
Now I've never actually used Illusionary Weaponry (since it would pretty much require me to go within melee range of an enemy) but from it's description I reckon it can be removed by a simple hex removal spell.
It has a 40 second recharge time so that would be a pretty big downside.
If this is not the case you can still use the regular anti-warrior tactics...that is, slow them down and prevent them from ever reaching you.
To be honest I'm not completely sure why it's so popular. I think it's more because it's such an original concept for a skill and because it's very effective against other Warriors.

Pyro Gl
26-04-2005, 22:45
some mesmers, like interrupt mesmers, don't have anything against non casters, or they find that their target doesn't cast, and they feel useless. unlike elementalists, mesmers don't usually spam skills, meaning weapon damage comes in to play more. adding illusionry weaponry makes them do very high damage for one skill.

Daikini
27-04-2005, 00:32
My Guild (Knights Hospitalis) has always considered Mesmers to be nearly as big a threat as monks. I play a monk, and if their mesmer starts targetting me, I make sure my guild knows that and they will normally try to kill them soon, sometimes before the monk. Monks are easy to stop if you know how so I would put my rankings as

1. Mesmer (if a caster killer, otherwise much lower)
2. Monks
3. Ele (Spike damage is very dangerous)
4. Necro (If a team relies on a BiPer it pays to go after the Necro before the ele's)
5. Ranger
6. Warrior

grimfiend
27-04-2005, 00:34
Noone here has tried an IW build?

They are insanely powerful... the problem is that one simple enchantment breaking spell can make them relatively harmless. There are counters to that, but in general they're very vulnerable.

But at the same time I wouldn't rate them as a high priority simply because alooot of people are surprised when a mesmer uses this strategy.

Darc.Syde
27-04-2005, 07:03
Also what is the general targeting order in PvP?

Monk .... ________ .... ________ .... ________ .... Warrior ?

mesmers are usually next inline after monks and sometimes before, depending on the team's strategy/weakness. then comes elementalist becuase of its lack of armor and high damage, then necromancers, rangers, and finally warriors. though, if a warrior gets too pushy and runs into a team's backline thinking itl kill a monk, itl probobly die. :happy05:

Viri
27-04-2005, 10:45
Mesmer can turn off 2 casters for couple seconds. With only 2 monks it can be devastating.

Tsume
28-04-2005, 05:39
I have used a few different pure mesmer builds, and they have all met with relative success. Though they arent permantely pure Mesmer, I usually pair them with Necro or Monk.

Grim I've had a few different IW builds, Ranger/Me IW have good survivability.

As far as targeting goes, Darc's observations match my own, and what my teams usually go for. Mesmers are dangerous yet fairly soft armored targets, and taking them out is a good perogative, which puts them after the primary healers on my list.

As far as the build you want, pure Mesmers are certainly effective, but just not picking a secondary would limit your options should you ever need to throw in a rez skill or extra curse. I'd go ahead and assign a secondary anyhow.

A good punishment for Warriors and Rangers are the degneration hexes. Stacking 10 degen on them can eat through their health and divide the healing of the enemy, allowing you time to go after your true targets. When I run an interrupt or disruption build I usually like to have along Migraine, and usually go ahead and throw Conjure Phantasm in there if it will fit the build, for the 8 degen. Its a good defensive, without sacrificing to much offensive disruption or interruption abilities.

WingspanTT
28-04-2005, 19:17
I just wanted to say that Pure Mesmer is nto a good choice... I was abotu to build a pure MEsmer yesterday and my brother convinced me to go Mesmer/Monk... why?

Because you can get resurrection with no skill pt investment in monk areas, and then just spend all your points in mesmer skills!

Anck Su Namun
28-04-2005, 21:33
A good punishment for Warriors and Rangers are the degneration hexes. Stacking 10 degen on them can eat through their health and divide the healing of the enemy, allowing you time to go after your true targets. When I run an interrupt or disruption build I usually like to have along Migraine, and usually go ahead and throw Conjure Phantasm in there if it will fit the build, for the 8 degen. Its a good defensive, without sacrificing to much offensive disruption or interruption abilities.

I know this is a Mes board but I thought i'd que in on this. I have been thinking about running a Necro/ Mes. Because of the odd skill of Conjure phantasm and a few other things.

Basically I want a 'summoner' with a bit of a twist. I was going to go with something along the lines of...

Necro
-Plague Signet (Elite)
-Animate Bone minions
-Vereta's Sacrfice
-Death Nova
-Parasitic bond

Mes Skills
-Epidemic
-Fragility
-Conjure Phantasm

Any ideas on how to change it or advance the idea? I realise the Necro Monk route I could pull conditions from allys and direct them with Plague signet. I just feel Fragility and Epidimic bring a lot of power to the table, in that same field. Of course this build could be complete crap as well... Any ideas, criticism or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Tsume
29-04-2005, 17:41
I know this is a Mes board but I thought i'd que in on this. I have been thinking about running a Necro/ Mes. Because of the odd skill of Conjure phantasm and a few other things.

Basically I want a 'summoner' with a bit of a twist. I was going to go with something along the lines of...

Necro
-Plague Signet (Elite)
-Animate Bone minions
-Vereta's Sacrfice
-Death Nova
-Parasitic bond

Mes Skills
-Epidemic
-Fragility
-Conjure Phantasm

Any ideas on how to change it or advance the idea? I realise the Necro Monk route I could pull conditions from allys and direct them with Plague signet. I just feel Fragility and Epidimic bring a lot of power to the table, in that same field. Of course this build could be complete crap as well... Any ideas, criticism or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I see you have two skills devoted to conditions (Epidemic and Fragility) yet you have no direct way to incurr a condition on a target, but you can send them conditions that are on yourself. Depending on how you wanna play (mainly PvP or PvE) I'd look at a few things.

You are useing Death Nova and Verata's Sacrifice. One skill keeps minions alive, the other is based on them dieing around enemies quickly, so I see kinda of a anti productiveness depending on how you want to use them. In PvE this character could suceed, getting conditions drawn to yourself through the minions, becaue monsters will attack your minions and then you can get some good use out of Fragility and Epidemic.

However, in PvP in most circumstances a few minions arent really a large concern and arn't targeted, and certainly are not incurred with conditions. Now if you go with Veratas to keep them alive, I would use the Bone Fiends, as their missile attacks can add up over time, and getting 2 or 3 solid fiends around can be a nice little damage addition. The mellee minions typically dont do as well due to being caught in AoE fires and not knowing to run out of it, and thats why (considering my experiences) they are mostly used as kinda 'suicide bombers' with Death Nova.

So I'm thinking this. Maybe take out Plague Signet. This will leave you at the mercy of conditions on yourself, but Necromancers arent typically a primary target, so chances are if you are getting hit heavy, the rest of your team is down or just about down. Anyway, take out Plague Signet and put in Virulence. Virulence will give you two conditions on a target, and as a bonus Disease spreads to nearby targets anyway.

But to trigger Virulence the foe needs to be suffering from a condition. It looks like you want to go Illusion Magic from the Mesmer, for Fragility, so lets go with Phantom Pain. After 10 seconds you have your first condition. You might just plainly replace Epidemic with Phantom Pain.

And heres the idea behind that: You start with Phantom Pain. Around 6 or 7 seconds into it you cast Fragility. As soon as you see the down arrow on the targets name indicating a condition, you cast Virulence and if you pull it off all fast enough thats 3 conditions that should trigger Fragility atleast 5 times, plus the drain from disease and the reduced health from deep wound. From there you can throw on your Conjure. You can also depend on your teamates, if they have conditions to put on a target like bleeding or poison, target their enemies to maximize your damage from Fragility.

Now that skill combo is not damage intensive in the large scope of things, but you said you want to be a summoner who utilized that type of technique so thats the ideas I'm gonna throw to you, to help you be less dependent on drawing conditions from your minions or being attacked before you can be really offensive. I didn't want to change your overall strategy and so I didnt, but inevitably someone will tell you to change to be more damage oriented. But I just wanna let you know you dont have to do that.

Hope some of these thoughts can help you.

giftofthemagi
13-08-2005, 22:15
i really don't wanna bother anyone...BUT in case of a pure mesmer, is it possible not to choose a secondary profession (i mean for the sryle :D )?

tranceaddict
14-08-2005, 01:06
I don't see what's wrong with pure Me. After all, my mesmer uses primary skills when she goes tombing. A mesmer using meteor shower in tombs is a dumb one :rolleyes:

JMadisonIV
14-08-2005, 03:47
Me/W low priority?

Why do so many people swear by their IW builds then? On paper, it looks pretty powerful (damage per second at least). Are there easy counters for them (if so what)?

Thanks for all the tips so far!

any Enchantment Removal Spell renders the typical IW build useless.

I am a Mesmer/Warrior, but I don't use IW as extensively as others. I only use it in PvE when I am in full defense mode, and sacrificing Sword attacks(with 12 in Sword) in order to load up on defensive spells and stances.

Third Quarter
14-08-2005, 04:31
I've never really been impressed with Me/E or Me/Mo playing to their secondaries. Having a fast-casted hard res is kind of nice, I guess, but the Resurrection Signet is faster still. (unless you use Light of Dwayna)

Me/W makes me laugh, even though I play one. Illusionary Weaponry is laughably frail.

I don't recall running into any particularly notable Me/R. Usually, they are just Mesmers who also drop a spirit or two because their team couldn't cram that Frozen Soil in anywhere else.

Me/N is the only particularly dangerous one: a Fragility/Virulence Mesmer can solo a Guild Lord.

A single-classed Mesmer is kind of silly. I interpret it to mean that the player is either a retard, or is demonstrating sass. (ie does not care if everyone knows precisely what his role will be)

JMadisonIV
14-08-2005, 05:55
Me/W makes me laugh, even though I play one. Illusionary Weaponry is laughably frail.




I always get the assumption that I am a solely IW dependant Mesmer, when I am in game, and people see my Me/W tag. I always get the "IW is weak" or "How do you like IW". and then they are shocked when I say "I don't use IW." as if there was a law that said that every Mesmer/Warrior HAS to be an IW build.

then I have to basically explain to people how I am not an IW Me/W and exactly what skills I use to do what and be successful.

bah.

but then again, I don't do PvP..and I don't plan to unless ANet introduces some Large-Scale Siege into the game.

Dr Funk
14-08-2005, 07:22
Me/W: I assume IW, but I've seen some who just use it for damage. Wierd.
Me/Mo: Secondary healer, some shutdown spells
Me/E: Fast nuker
Me/R: Degen or Fragility build
Me/N: Fragility or cannibal build

I run an Me/E build and I usually use about 2 elementalist skills--typically a damage move and a glyph. Glyphs are just as useful in cutting the costs of Backfire as they are on any Elementalist spell, and a good damage spell lets me remove damage-only things and suppliment it with a few abilities that do nothing but mess with people. I also sometimes bring Eruption just for the AoE blind effect.

I think Me's of any type are effective in PvP if they carry at least Backfire, since that spell by itself has claimed the lives of more people than I care to acknowledge. I've even had some excellent luck sneaking a backfire in on a W/Mo who was using Orison of Healing once, and she dropped like a stone. I think regardless of your actual 'function' in a group, carrying a single anti-caster ability is such a no brainer, since most of the classes in the game use spells, so the chances of running into a primary or secondary spellcaster are good.

MajereUK
15-08-2005, 02:58
Atm I'm playing about with a Me/W, and I've got no plans to go anywhere near Illusory Weaponry, mainly because I mostly do PvE and I hate relying on enchantments. But something I'm finding very nifty is Fragility. Typically, I hit a threat with Conjure Phantasm, then Fragility, then Hamstring (Bang from fragility), then Sever Artery (more health degen, bang from fragility) then Gash (Deep wound- another bang from fragility). That seems to take a lot of enemies down pretty fast, even 1 on 1 with bosses spamming Healing Signets or Troll Unguents.
Then again, all my caster characters melee.. maybe its just me. :p

Oh- and in answer to the OP- Me/W = Duellist (Skilful, fragile and prefers one-on-one)

Celois
15-08-2005, 03:27
Interesting idea, anyways whenever I PvP and see someone with these professions I think:

Me = A newbie mesmer who doesn't know about selecting a 2ndary profession. Probably spams backfire/diversion and doesn't help the team.

Me/W = An Illusionary Mesmer. Easy kill. Disenchants ftw.

Me/R = Probably a stance mesmer

Me/N = A cookie cutter fragility-virulence mesmer, Makes my mend/dehex skills happy :D

Me/Mo = Regular mesmer with restore life.

Me/E = Fast casting nuker.

Hopefully I don't sound like an ***.

Nobleman Azure
15-08-2005, 03:46
Interesting idea, anyways whenever I PvP and see someone with these professions I think:

Me = A newbie mesmer who doesn't know about selecting a 2ndary profession. Probably spams backfire/diversion and doesn't help the team.

Me/W = An Illusionary Mesmer. Easy kill. Disenchants ftw.

Me/R = Probably a stance mesmer

Me/N = A cookie cutter fragility-virulence mesmer, Makes my mend/dehex skills happy :D

Me/Mo = Regular mesmer with restore life.

Me/E = Fast casting nuker.

Hopefully I don't sound like an ***.

Having a single profession just means they are pure. You have the option of not selecting s secondary when making a PVP character. Many times that I made a build that relies soley on the primary class builds I dont see the reason for clicking that extra item to add a 2ndary and just clutter up my skill box as I choose a skill. A mesmer who spams backfire and diversion DOES help the team, pardon him for not doing damage and looking flashy but that person could possibly be what has been helping your team win consecutively.

You will be surprised when you encounter Me/W that has been frequenting on this forums. Disenchant them and they will still do some serious work on you and your allies.

Me/R does not mean stance mesmer. (Nor does any of this mean something at all) A Me/R could be a fragility incendiary or an interrupter.

Cookie cutter, possibly but if you face any of the tweaked frag virus in here, you wouldnt be so arrogant. Me/N can be an anti warrior cursor or a a DOT illusion/blood

Me/Mo are great secondary healers. Most Me/Mo also just have that secondary but not use it at all.

Me/E can be using the elementalist line for defense and not offense. That or he is just not using his secondary like the rest of these


To assume that you are going to get an easy kill just by looking at the persons profession is a big mistake that any decent player should avoid. Same goes for assuming a tough kill. How about let's just say do not assume ANYTHING solely on profession.

ChaosJester
15-08-2005, 04:14
I like Me/W, but intend to mostly stay away from IW, except to threaten. They see IW, they disenchant, I simply just smash them with my sword/axe/hammer.

A Me/W who solely relies on IW is like a W/Mo who assumes that he is invincible because he has health regen and a lot of armor, or an invinci-monk Mo/W. If the W/Mo or Mo/W hits an energy denial or health degen Mes using Empathy, Backfire, and the like and he is gonna be a lot of dead tank really quickly. The same goes for an IW mes amd an enchant remover.

I was in fact mostly going to take Warrior for the hit % reductionstances, as I can then use them instead of distortion so I don't have to be as much of a 'twitch' mesmer. Sure I will be touching IW, but I want it to be more of a backup than THE skill I base the build on. I prefer staying out of the battle. I also KNOW my armor is going to be rather weak, so I want to ensure that I have some decent survivability against warriors and rangers.

Reverie Albion
15-08-2005, 12:41
A pure mesmer is not a fool. Why should they have a 2nd prof is they don't use any skills from this second prof.
I run a M/Ne but uses only Mesmer skills. He could be only Me that would not change anything.
The drawback is that if you get only primary without a second, you will not be able to adapt your build according to the team requirement as well as a biprof character.
Just my 2 cents.

rodigee
15-08-2005, 14:51
I also play pure mesmer, and I'm no fool. :)

tranceaddict
15-08-2005, 15:09
I also play pure mesmer, and I'm no fool. :)

Nuff said.

MajereUK
16-08-2005, 01:28
I must admit I find it hard to see why anyone would want to play 'pure' Mesmer, even if they only use the Mesmer skill sets. Surely you might as well be Me/Mo and have the option of bringing along Resurrect/Rebirth instead of a one-shot signet, or any other secondary with some useful skills with no attribute requirement?
Unless, I suppose, you do PvP and want to make someone think you're a n00b when you're really a ninja-twitch Mesmer from hell.... :)

rodigee
16-08-2005, 02:08
Nuff said.

Fo sho!

Actually my secondary is monk but I don't use anything from it in PvP. Res Sig is FAR superior to Ressurect/Rebirth ;) I guess I could use Vengence but then I wouldn't be a pure Mesmer!