View Full Version : Question about keeping minions alive
I wanna know how you guys keep your minions alive.
Now this is the way I see it, and it is a problem...
Let's say you have like 10 minions summoned, and they drained a decent amount of health, I think using Heal Area is the best skill for that, which heals 110 health for me, but since minions constantly drain life, aren't you going to be using Heal Area every 8 seconds or something? Isn't that an energy problem? And even if you do use Heal Area constantly, you won't have enough energy for summoning another pair of minions. I wanna know how you guys prevent energy problems from occuring.
Use Verata's Sacrifice. Gives minions +10 Health Regeneration.
Lord Gargoyle
30-04-2005, 20:19
where can i find Veratas skills and the bone minion skills?
Arctic soldier
09-12-2005, 20:16
Use Verata's Sacrifice. Gives minions +10 Health Regeneration.
oh and dont forget blood of the master its a heal move for your minons by just sacrificing 10% health
Kai Su Teknon
09-12-2005, 20:45
where can i find Veratas skills and the bone minion skills?
You can get Verata's Sacrifice from Verata himself in the place where you find Galrath in the Villany of Galrath quest (south of Temple of Ages). Or so they say. I wasn't able to find him when I did the quest, though :mad:. So maybe you have to not have the quest active.
Or you can get the skill in Copperhammer Mines.
Maybe we should organize some sort of all necro Verata skill cap expedition.
black hand
09-12-2005, 21:51
You can get Verata's Sacrifice from Verata himself in the place where you find Galrath in the Villany of Galrath quest (south of Temple of Ages). Or so they say. I wasn't able to find him when I did the quest, though :mad:. So maybe you have to not have the quest active.
Or you can get the skill in Copperhammer Mines.
Maybe we should organize some sort of all necro Verata skill cap expedition.
If you have the Villany quest Veratra won't show up. You have to go down there without it (I went with hench) and he was there. Made going through the rest of the game so easy. Since the jungle is full of bodies to summon, I think I hit 30 lvl 17 minions in there.
Sweet, something to think about if my friend who's joining wants to get a necro going.
Heal Area is strictly better than Blood of the Master. They have the same area of effect, but point for point Heal Area has a better health gain (Healing Prayers vs. Death Magic that is). Death 16 heals 122 while Healing 12 heals 150, all for the same energy cost, recycle time, and cast time. And Heal Area has no sac cost. This is why you see so many N/Mo minion masters as opposed to say, N/Me's. Mind you, as an N/R with Serpent's Quickness it's possible to keep Verata's Sacrifice going indefinantly. Your undead don't decay, and either the party healer can refresh your undead between battles or you can bring Healing Spring along (and since you've got to have a fairly high Wilderness Survival for Serpent's Quickness to last long enough for a second cast of Verata's Sacrifice, the health gain will be pretty substantial).
Sweet, something to think about if my friend who's joining wants to get a necro going.
Heal Area is strictly better than Blood of the Master. They have the same area of effect, but point for point Heal Area has a better health gain (Healing Prayers vs. Death Magic that is). Death 16 heals 122 while Healing 12 heals 150, all for the same energy cost, recycle time, and cast time. And Heal Area has no sac cost. This is why you see so many N/Mo minion masters as opposed to say, N/Me's. Mind you, as an N/R with Serpent's Quickness it's possible to keep Verata's Sacrifice going indefinantly. Your undead don't decay, and either the party healer can refresh your undead between battles or you can bring Healing Spring along (and since you've got to have a fairly high Wilderness Survival for Serpent's Quickness to last long enough for a second cast of Verata's Sacrifice, the health gain will be pretty substantial).
But Heal Area heals your enemies as well. And if you're running minions, you most likely have 16 death anyways so you already have BoTM maximized. Putting 12 into Healing severely limits your Soul Reaping if you were to have 16 Death. I don't have Verata's Sacrifice yet so I still bring along Heal Area (and I like Heal Area). But from what I've read, many here have less use for Heal Area or other Monk healing skills as they get further into the game. Both are good to have, but I've definitely been using BoTM more than Heal Area these days.
black hand
10-12-2005, 04:40
But Heal Area heals your enemies as well. And if you're running minions, you most likely have 16 death anyways so you already have BoTM maximized. Putting 12 into Healing severely limits your Soul Reaping if you were to have 16 Death. I don't have Verata's Sacrifice yet so I still bring along Heal Area (and I like Heal Area). But from what I've read, many here have less use for Heal Area or other Monk healing skills as they get further into the game. Both are good to have, but I've definitely been using BoTM more than Heal Area these days.
I would have to agree. Since the only thing I see people use on the monk side is heal area and possibly a hard rez if they have the space. That's the main reason why I go ranger secondary because I can use a few skills that help me out; I use winnowing (good for late game places), healing spring, Serpent's Quickness, and whenever I get the time to cap that Greater Gonfragation. But it really all depends on people play style. I have no problem using a taste of death to fully heal me and give me energy back from the Soul reaping. Other people will go crazy if that would happen.
Minions to me are just an investment that I put energy into to get back when the time is needed. There is a reason why we are the masters and them the summon! Ok started to rant my bad...
Vexed Arcanist
10-12-2005, 04:45
Just an FYI minions begin with -1 health regen and gain another -1 every 20 seconds.
Pox Inferis
10-12-2005, 06:21
When running an MM build, I've stopped bringing heal area. In fact, I've stopped bringing anything other than necro skills, so it doesn't matter to me what my secondary is. The reason for this is so that I can bring along Offerring of Blood (blood magic) as my elite, for a quick boost in energy. An alternative is to crank up soul reaping for extra energy, but with a 16 in death and a 12 in healing, how many points do you really have left for soul reaping, i.e. energy management? Instead, spread the points out between soul reaping and blood magic. I typically run with around 7 in soul reaping and 9 or so in blood.
I'll agree that heal area is a better quality heal, but the necro skills just seem to fit the build better. With OoB, Verata's sacrifice, and BotM, you might think that sacrifices would be a problem. However, if you bring along shadow strike and vamp gaze, you can get a quick boost to your health when needed.
Simply put, with OoB as my elite (wish there was a summoning elite, but oh well), and horrors and fiends as my summons, I can all but chain cast summoning spells as long as there are corpses around, without worrying about running out of energy. And the faster you can summon your minions, the more damage they'll be putting out, and the faster you can clear areas. Think about it like this: If I summon 5 minions back to back chain casting, it might take me about 20 seconds to get them all going. If someone using monk skills tried that, they'd be out of energy before they got the last minion up, and the minion degen would start to increase since they had to wait on energy. Why spend the extra energy healing old minions when you can keep chain casting new ones with only -1 degen?
Vexed Arcanist
10-12-2005, 06:57
Precisely why I only use Verata's Sacrifice when soloing. I just didn't want to type all that out. I go pure necro,16 death, 10 each in Blood and SR. I don't stop to cast spirits, stop to perpetual heal and regen the minions, etc. I raise them, give them some regen when Verata's recycles, and keep on moving. Playing with other skills may be fun but it can also drag down the time you spend doing whatever, into a slogfest. Not knocking anyone elses build or how they have fun, we all have fun in our own individual ways.
black hand
10-12-2005, 10:52
When running an MM build, I've stopped bringing heal area. In fact, I've stopped bringing anything other than necro skills, so it doesn't matter to me what my secondary is. The reason for this is so that I can bring along Offerring of Blood (blood magic) as my elite, for a quick boost in energy. An alternative is to crank up soul reaping for extra energy, but with a 16 in death and a 12 in healing, how many points do you really have left for soul reaping, i.e. energy management? Instead, spread the points out between soul reaping and blood magic. I typically run with around 7 in soul reaping and 9 or so in blood.
That might be why you need OoB... Most MM buils have a minimum of 9 in SR. Since every time something dies you get a nice boost so you can summon again. If you tried raising your SR att. points to at least 9 or 10 you might find that you don't need OoB as much. Just think all you need is 5 energy during a battle and something dies and bam you have +10 in purple text and you have a horor up. Anyone can have 5 energy up.
I've been trying different combinations to MM build. I've been using OoB and to tell you the truth, with 10 SR I only use it in the begining for a quick boost to be able to cast a couple damage/life stealing spells and still have enough energy for summoning. Once I get it going all you need is the SR and minions to go with it.
I'm around midgame I think, so Heal Area is still useful for me. I currently don't run any blood. So I basically distribute points between Soul Reaping and Healing. My heal area heals around 70-80 as I don't really think I need to have more and sacrifice points in soul reaping. Before entering a battle, I spam BoTM and then Heal Area which pretty much brings my minions and myself back to full health. If I need that extra healing from my heal area to stay alive, I'll probably be dead anyways.
Vexed Arcanist
10-12-2005, 16:40
I'm around midgame I think, so Heal Area is still useful for me. I currently don't run any blood. So I basically distribute points between Soul Reaping and Healing. My heal area heals around 70-80 as I don't really think I need to have more and sacrifice points in soul reaping. Before entering a battle, I spam BoTM and then Heal Area which pretty much brings my minions and myself back to full health. If I need that extra healing from my heal area to stay alive, I'll probably be dead anyways.
There is nothing wrong with Heal Area. It is very good, has a multi-purpose use, etc. Once you have Verata's, if you are soloing, it is pretty much all you need. In a group environment Heal Area wins hands down especially pre-ascension.
Kai Su Teknon
10-12-2005, 17:46
If you have the Villany quest Veratra won't show up. You have to go down there without it (I went with hench) and he was there. Made going through the rest of the game so easy. Since the jungle is full of bodies to summon, I think I hit 30 lvl 17 minions in there.
Looks like you were right. I went down there without the quest and Verata was there. Only problem was, I brought the worst build I possibly could have. The only corpse exploitation skills I had were summoning skills (should probably have brought Putrid Explosion). So of course once I summoned, Verata's cronies immediately cast Verata's Gaze. Not pretty.
So after a few deaths (the henchies had to be at -60 DP) I managed to get him by hugging the wall of the plateau where Verata was, so I was out of his line of sight, and casting Rotting Flesh and Deathly Swarm ad nauseam. Cheap, but at least I got my cap :happy34: .
I wanna know how you guys keep your minions alive.
Now this is the way I see it, and it is a problem...
Let's say you have like 10 minions summoned, and they drained a decent amount of health, I think using Heal Area is the best skill for that, which heals 110 health for me, but since minions constantly drain life, aren't you going to be using Heal Area every 8 seconds or something? Isn't that an energy problem? And even if you do use Heal Area constantly, you won't have enough energy for summoning another pair of minions. I wanna know how you guys prevent energy problems from occuring.
Verata's Sacrifice is a given, but for another ...
Blood of the Master, no ifs' but's or ands', which will be explained later.
It's mostly about the "pace" between fights. You need fresh minions, if they're too old, no amount of Veratas, Blood of the Master or any other kind of heal will be effective.
I believe every individual needs to "feel out" how to keep your minions alive and vigorous between fights.
Blood of the Master works as long as the inbetween time of fighting isn't too long, the Necro isn't sacrificimg much life then. Here is why and is underlined!
The bonus to BotM is:
It relys on the same attribute line as your minions, so no points needing to be spent on other lines. Add to that an Elementalist secondary with the 2 glyphs {one Elite, both energy management} that require no attribute points (yaaa baby!!! ;) ), a player can raise minions as long as there are corpses. :D and still have room to fart around with another offensive spell.
See the humor -> fart/offensive, what else does one expect from necromancer types :lol:
Bonehead632
10-12-2005, 18:52
ok.......I have a dumb question for all you MM guru's. If heal area is not useful after you get verata's, then why not change secondary to mesmer and echo veretas?? Just a thought......might try that myself tomorrow......damn I hate working 24 hours sometimes.......
Vexed Arcanist
11-12-2005, 00:56
ok.......I have a dumb question for all you MM guru's. If heal area is not useful after you get verata's, then why not change secondary to mesmer and echo veretas?? Just a thought......might try that myself tomorrow......damn I hate working 24 hours sometimes.......
Not much different to go N/E for Glyph of Renewal then, since the recycle on Verata's Sacrifice isn't that bad as it is. In a group situation where you don't need BiP or some other necro elite the N/E would be a bit more useful since you could bring Wards as well.
It all depends on your needs and what you are doing.
Bonehead632
11-12-2005, 02:34
Not much different to go N/E for Glyph of Renewal then, since the recycle on Verata's Sacrifice isn't that bad as it is. In a group situation where you don't need BiP or some other necro elite the N/E would be a bit more useful since you could bring Wards as well.
It all depends on your needs and what you are doing.
Ty for the insight sir....i've only played one ele, air, and I hated it.....so I deleted her and started my necro.....I did not explore the ele skills the way I should have.
my necro is a N/E for 1 reason, glyph of lesser energy :)
it means i can summon practically whenever i need to and i can still use rotting flesh/swarm if i need to.
question; ive already received the quest for villainy of galrath...will verata still spawn if i abandon the quest?
Vexed Arcanist
11-12-2005, 05:58
Ty for the insight sir....i've only played one ele, air, and I hated it.....so I deleted her and started my necro.....I did not explore the ele skills the way I should have.
I actually forgot to mention the recycle on Echo is 30 while for Glyph of Renewal it is 15.
Bonehead632
11-12-2005, 12:04
I actually forgot to mention the recycle on Echo is 30 while for Glyph of Renewal it is 15.
Hmmm.....I see that renewal is an elite though.....I was looking to use Well of Power for an elite. I also thought that if you used Echo....you could have verata's up almost non stop. Figuring it last about 20 seconds.......cast Echo, hit verata's.......18 seconds hit Echo verata, then when it wears off, normal should be recharged.......ooohhhh.....nevermind.....I see where my problem lies now.....i'll have to rethink things.
Killa Pinged
11-12-2005, 15:38
well now I have 13 soul reaping and I never run out of mana, AotL will cut down all the sacraficing and I have a monk secondary just for the res, oh and one last thing do bloodstained boots really work?
well now I have 13 soul reaping and I never run out of mana, AotL will cut down all the sacraficing and I have a monk secondary just for the res, oh and one last thing do bloodstained boots really work?
From what I've experienced in PvE, a combo those boots + the staff that gives 20% chance of faster cast ... a majority of the time on an even start, gnashers will still beat me in raising minions. :( You know, wait for the green XP number to pop up, immediately hit the skill.
Now what I do wonder about, is if lag between monster AI (on the server) vs. my commands (off the server), voids the bonus from using the combo of those boots and staff. :scratch:
Now if you keep the Gnashers busy somehow, you can avoid the even start and raise those minions for yourself. :)
I can see the boots + staff bonus playing a bigger role in PvP.
Kai Su Teknon
11-12-2005, 18:29
my necro is a N/E for 1 reason, glyph of lesser energy :)
it means i can summon practically whenever i need to and i can still use rotting flesh/swarm if i need to.
question; ive already received the quest for villainy of galrath...will verata still spawn if i abandon the quest?
I'm pretty sure Verata will not spawn if you have the quest. I went there twice with the quest and he didn't spawn. Went down there without the quest and he was there the first time. In the same place Galrath spawns, no less.
You can always take up the quest again if you abandon it, so don't worry about that.
When you go down there, make sure you bring corpse exploitation spells (e.g. Putrid Explosion), and do not go as a Minion Master, since the necros there will cast Verata's Gaze and turn your minions against you.
My method of keeping Verata's Sacrifice going is an adaptation of the perma-Mist Form build in the elementalist forum. N/R with Serpent's Quickness. Cast VS, use SQ before it finishes casting, and VS will be ready to cast again before SQ wears off. Cast again and SQ dies after you finish casting. The next time VS recharges, SQ will be ready again, so just repeat.
The upside is with all that Wilderness Survival I can use Healing Spring between (or during) fights to heal my minions (and possibly other party members). And then of course Winnowing as mentioned earlier.
black hand
12-12-2005, 13:31
My method of keeping Verata's Sacrifice going is an adaptation of the perma-Mist Form build in the elementalist forum. N/R with Serpent's Quickness. Cast VS, use SQ before it finishes casting, and VS will be ready to cast again before SQ wears off. Cast again and SQ dies after you finish casting. The next time VS recharges, SQ will be ready again, so just repeat.
The upside is with all that Wilderness Survival I can use Healing Spring between (or during) fights to heal my minions (and possibly other party members). And then of course Winnowing as mentioned earlier.
Just another bonus to having SQ up is all your other skills recharge faster. Have had the 20% recharge bonus stack with the 33%SQ bonus and you have like a 1 second recharge on summons. You can pump them out so fast.
Aisha Heavens
12-12-2005, 15:23
I use Veratas SAcrifice, so far for me it works great!!! used blood of the master at first, but its not enough healing for my babies, also recently changed to monk sencondary and tried heal area, having to out points in healing does not cut it for me.
Verata's Sacrifice FTW!!!
Well for me with HA i can keep my minions alive for an infinite amount of time. I use veretas sac then BoTM to get them to full health, when VS runs out with 9 seconds left to recharge I use HA which gives each one +130 and they until VS recharges they loose at max 180 health (if -10 regen) once i cast VS again I use BoTM to cap them out and repeat. I of course loose a few during fights since HA and BoTM become less effective but if I leave fiends out of my build I can keep them up easier (only in places with limited corpses).
Btw i have:
16 Death
9 Soul
10 Healing
black hand
12-12-2005, 19:33
Well for me with HA i can keep my minions alive for an infinite amount of time. I use veretas sac then BoTM to get them to full health, when VS runs out with 9 seconds left to recharge I use HA which gives each one +130 and they until VS recharges they loose at max 180 health (if -10 regen) once i cast VS again I use BoTM to cap them out and repeat. I of course loose a few during fights since HA and BoTM become less effective but if I leave fiends out of my build I can keep them up easier (only in places with limited corpses).
Btw i have:
16 Death
9 Soul
10 Healing
Sorry to say but your info is flawed. If you have a old minion their degen caps at 20. If it didn't minions would be over powered. That's why you can't keep a minion alive with just VS up. So they could lose 380 Hp IIRC if they were at max hp which they wouldn't be. And since their usual max hp is 440 they will die real fast if you don't sit there and heal an old minion.
Sorry to say but your info is flawed. If you have a old minion their degen caps at 20. If it didn't minions would be over powered. That's why you can't keep a i bet i could kick your *** in real life minion alive with just VS up. So they could lose 380 Hp IIRC if they were at max hp which they wouldn't be. And since their usual max hp is 440 they will die real fast if you don't sit there and heal an old minion.
Yeah you're probably right (im not really a geek about this stuff), in any case with that combo they last a damn long time. Long enough to get through desert erted areas into places with more monsters.
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