View Full Version : Why are my Henchie Parties better?!?!
Giant Berserker
09-05-2005, 19:29
Sorry in advance as this is kind of long....
I play a PVE WAR/MNK-15 and hands down my henchie parties ALWAYS do better than parties I put together to do a mission. Why is this? I can think of one reason and it annoys me that I can't fix it.
Backstory: I just did the frost gate mission last night 2 times with myself and a full level-8 henchie party. I made it both times to 95% completion before sages brought my party down. Soooo...I get together a party of level 14+'s and myself and we go do the mission; we got it done....but it wasn't NEARLY as organised and smooth.
The issue I can identify is that in a henchie party everyone follows MY lead. I target the priority Foe and use "Vigorous Spirit", "Frenzy", "Watch Yourself!", "Sever Artery", & "Gash" during attacks and keep all up as I fight. It's FURIOUS combat and I barely take damage even when surrounded by foes...I watch the skill-bar for adrenaline and the status bar for things dropping. I also watch the Health bar of my current foe and as soon as I see it drop to zero I "\" + "Space" and keep slashing away until all enemies are on the ground. Despite what you may think, this works suprisingly well.
When I am in a player-party nobody seems to attack the same thing no matter how hard we try to and how much we plan before running in to attack. I have tried to have the more experienced person "target call" and follow his lead but it doesn't often work...as the target is usually only called the first time and then it becomes a free for all. Also...using "T" to help out the target caller seldom works as well for me as my henchie-method of mowing down the targets because often I lose target lock for some reason, or when I try to switch targets using "T" once the current target dies...my guy doesn't switch targets and just stands there.... This can be DANGEROUS as well as frustrating because often my character is hidden by other players and foes and it takes a bit for me to realise "Hey!!!...He's just standing there!"
<sigh>
To make this shorter....HELP! How can I make my player parties my preference and become more efficient with them? Has anyone else experienced this and worked out a solution that worked and allowed them to be more happy with player parties? I sure am tired of having the rush of completing a mission offset by people saying things as they disband like: "Man that sucked..." "That was the worst teamwork ever" "Gotta love disorganisation that is overcome by blind luck...."
Please be more helpful than stating the obvious such as be more organised as I REALISE that is the key....it's just that what I have been trying to do hasn't worked very well.
Later in the game, henchies are cannon fodder. You'll be grounded into dog meat iIf you try to bring henchies to underworld or even on most missions after ascending.
Corrodias
09-05-2005, 19:58
a lot of people are no good at tactics. they approach this game like a traditional MMORPG in which your actions during combat have only a basic mathematical effect on its outcome. they have no concept of aggro management, or focused targetting.
i'll admit right away that i'm no expert at tactics, which is party why i stick to healing with my main character. but keep trying and you'll eventually find some people who can work properly as a team. you may have to ask specifically for team players when looking for group members or join a guild to find people like that, or you could just get lucky.
there are many things to avoid when playing in a group... i don't have time right now to list any except one (because i'm going to class in 20 seconds): don't screw around with the compassmap. you can draw on it and you can ping on it when you seriously have an idea, but be serious about it. don't try spelling words, because as cute as it may be at first, it can be extremely confusing when people are trying to figure out where the group is headed next. if you want to bring people's attention to something, do not ping 6 times around its general location and wait for everyone to figure out what you are trying to indicate, but draw a line to it and ping once, and explain in text if you must.
Just build up a friends list of people who don't suck. If you have a good group, pay close attention to who is actually doing the killing, the good healing, and the fancy special effects. Become friends with those players and play with them again - and totally ditch the rest of those monkies.
Personally I feel it's an acceptable downside to having a MMORPG which actually encourages skillful playing, instead of simply handing you victory.
Tanthalis
09-05-2005, 20:57
Just build up a friends list of people who don't suck. If you have a good group, pay close attention to who is actually doing the killing, the good healing, and the fancy special effects. Become friends with those players and play with them again - and totally ditch the rest of those monkies.
Personally I feel it's an acceptable downside to having a MMORPG which actually encourages skillful playing, instead of simply handing you victory.
There is a group of us who are getting team talk (saftware) its 3.99 a month and up tgo 8 peopel can comunicate with headphone and mic..... it is really worth it
Later in the game, henchies are cannon fodder. You'll be grounded into dog meat iIf you try to bring henchies to underworld or even on most missions after ascending.
actually you can do it with henchies but yea it gets harder when mursaat starts to appear because they aren't infused.
Corrodias
09-05-2005, 22:17
i started my gaming back before streaming speech was feasible, and i've never been comfortable with the idea of actually talking to other gamers.
but even if i could get over that, i don't see a convenient way of doing it. i mean, other than holding a microphone to my face, the only other option i know of is a headset, the headphones part of which will probably suck. i'd like to have some option where i would have my hands free but i could still use my existing headphones.
also, where do you guys find an extra key to activate the mic? i almost never have extra keys to spend on things like that, in any game!
REI ONRYOU
09-05-2005, 22:54
Headset mic is definitely worth it and the quality isn't bad at all.
Some programs can use voice activated speaking. My mic has a mute setting on it, so I just switch it on and off as necessary.
With pick ups, you need a leader that stands out, and a group that are willing to listen to orders and do things by the book. If they can't do that, then it's hard to succeed.
i mean, other than holding a microphone to my face, the only other option i know of is a headset, the headphones part of which will probably suck. i'd like to have some option where i would have my hands free but i could still use my existing headphones.
also, where do you guys find an extra key to activate the mic? i almost never have extra keys to spend on things like that, in any game!
I definitely sympathize about Headset+Mic combos. I have yet to see one where the headphones part wasn't cheaply made. For a while I would actually wear a light headset+mic over the top of my comfortable headphones, but that was fairly lame. I've also thought about just manually attaching the mic to my nice Headphones, with Duct Tape or something. It may not look pretty, but it would have the advantages of a comfy headset with a mic.
I use ALT to speak. I definitely do not like using Voice Activated (nor would my teammates, given how much I swear when I'm not holding the speak button; I'm surprised my roommates can stand me! ;) )
Teamspeak 2 seems like the most popular voice over IP program nowadays, with Ventrilo being a close second. When I used them for Planetside, Ventrilo tended to have better overall sound quality, even when the TS2 server had its sound quality tweaked up. TS2 had the advantage of a far superior user interface with a lot more administrative options and the ability to whisper to specific players/groups with alternative hotkey binds (Squad Leader channel, in the case of Planetside.)
Organizing people to use voice over IP software can be tricky. It generally works best in guilds, but one of the best pickup teams I played in, in a BWE, had me join their server. Worked out very nice and we made it to the very end of the tournament. They kept chatter to a minimum, with the leader usually only having to say "switch target" while macroing it in-game and our entire team would switch all at once.
Black Widow
10-05-2005, 02:41
Ive been grouping with a few common people lately, and atm am lvl 12 and doing missions with great success and fun factor. Our group consits of: Necro/Warror *Frank the tank* 2 Ranger/Monks (myself and a companion) and whomever else wants in (usually another warrior/?)
When walking into a large group, wether it be Skakes or Char or whatever, the archers focus on One spellcaster , then the other spellcaster (repeat) to reduce healing amonst the enemys.
(Longbows due to range keep us away from anything that would split us in two.. seems to be our preferd weapon (even if it may do a little less damage) + we Try for higher ground since that = more damage per bow shot, but thats not always an option.
The warriors tank the same Char or whatever they agree on, and the sub-class monks watch the health bar and use healing, damage pro. and the occasional run-in "Wraith" run back.
Plus whatever else is in our bag of tricks.
This tactic, at the moment anyhow, seems to work very well
(i have yet to face the undead but all in due time)
It helps to talk about what your going to fight and equipt the proper +damage wepons if you have them *that goes without saying id think* but just incase ..
Also:
(necros DOT skills seem to destroy "bosses")
** if u want to call them that **
** there army is by far much harder then they are **
** but again im only lvl 12 so i cant speak for anything much later in the game **
In Game: Scarlet Fang
A monk and I did better alone yesterday with 4 henchys on our side then we did with our 6 person party on the 3 test thigys.
It all depends on if your party is a bunch of idiots or not.
For example, our real person party's two tanks where ideots.
They would charge into enemy mobs using that speed up skill and die before the rest of us got there. Then when we ressurected them and told them to pull back because you could get two enemy partys to fight eachother they wouldn't listen.
About the two groups of enemies focusing on each other. I find it is more effective to rush in while they're fighting each other. It lets you take out key enemies while they are busy fighting other things.
Well, I usually just run into the middle of the melee and do /dance (this one is fun with the Ranger doing his breakdancing or a Warrior sitting there doing pelvic thrusts in the middle of the crowd while people are trying to fight) or sometimes /drums or /guitar, depending on the character and then go to the fridge for another beer or make a toilet run.
Hang your headphones over the back of your neck, and tilt the mic up under your chin.
Plug in your mic but not the speaker part of your headset, leaving your normal computer speakers on and voila!
Hang your headphones over the back of your neck, and tilt the mic up under your chin.
Plug in your mic but not the speaker part of your headset, leaving your normal computer speakers on and voila!
I have a very good pair of fullsized headphones, so I use them and I put a Logitech USB mic on my desktop and it picks up very well. This setup works great for me. Can't do it without the headphones though as the other users pick up the feedback of their own voice.
I have a very good pair of fullsized headphones, so I use them and I put a Logitech USB mic on my desktop and it picks up very well. This setup works great for me. Can't do it without the headphones though as the other users pick up the feedback of their own voice.
I haven't had the feedback problems, but thats because i have a 5 speaker surround system so most of the noise output isn't right in front of me. Good point though for those who are thinking of trying this to consider
Psychosis
11-05-2005, 19:15
If you live near a radio shack then they have some Optimus full size headphones with a mic that work great. They are very comfortable and the mic is very good. They totally enclose your ears. I use them everyday as I am also a Counter-Strike player. Some Radio Shack's may not have them but its worth a look anyway. The Model is either Optimus Nova-52 or Nova-71, can't remember.
the equation:
{[time spent getting a decent team]+[time spent finding a healing monk]+[risk factor of people leaving]}/[henchmen's lack of power]
personally, i think it takes too long to get a pickup group, ESPECIALLY for just 'exploring.' everyone wants to do the quest/mission, but no one wants to find that next town for another skill or two.
Sorry in advance as this is kind of long....
I play a PVE WAR/MNK-15 and hands down my henchie parties ALWAYS do better than parties I put together to do a mission. Why is this? I can think of one reason and it annoys me that I can't fix it.
Backstory: I just did the frost gate mission last night 2 times with myself and a full level-8 henchie party. I made it both times to 95% completion before sages brought my party down. Soooo...I get together a party of level 14+'s and myself and we go do the mission; we got it done....but it wasn't NEARLY as organised and smooth.
The issue I can identify is that in a henchie party everyone follows MY lead. I target the priority Foe and use "Vigorous Spirit", "Frenzy", "Watch Yourself!", "Sever Artery", & "Gash" during attacks and keep all up as I fight. It's FURIOUS combat and I barely take damage even when surrounded by foes...I watch the skill-bar for adrenaline and the status bar for things dropping. I also watch the Health bar of my current foe and as soon as I see it drop to zero I "\" + "Space" and keep slashing away until all enemies are on the ground. Despite what you may think, this works suprisingly well.
When I am in a player-party nobody seems to attack the same thing no matter how hard we try to and how much we plan before running in to attack. I have tried to have the more experienced person "target call" and follow his lead but it doesn't often work...as the target is usually only called the first time and then it becomes a free for all. Also...using "T" to help out the target caller seldom works as well for me as my henchie-method of mowing down the targets because often I lose target lock for some reason, or when I try to switch targets using "T" once the current target dies...my guy doesn't switch targets and just stands there.... This can be DANGEROUS as well as frustrating because often my character is hidden by other players and foes and it takes a bit for me to realise "Hey!!!...He's just standing there!"
<sigh>
To make this shorter....HELP! How can I make my player parties my preference and become more efficient with them? Has anyone else experienced this and worked out a solution that worked and allowed them to be more happy with player parties? I sure am tired of having the rush of completing a mission offset by people saying things as they disband like: "Man that sucked..." "That was the worst teamwork ever" "Gotta love disorganisation that is overcome by blind luck...."
Please be more helpful than stating the obvious such as be more organised as I REALISE that is the key....it's just that what I have been trying to do hasn't worked very well.
If you complete Ring of Fire or a later mission with henchies, give me a call.
Seeker of Something
12-05-2005, 19:54
I like playing with people, but after a while I just give up on pickup parties and go back to the henchies. Went 0 for 3 with infused humans in Thunderhead Keep, then gave up and did it in a single try with the henchies. Why? More monks, good focus fire, nobody ran off and got killed, and no one was writing paragraphs in chat (during battle!) rather than actually using their skills.
If you complete Ring of Fire or a later mission with henchies, give me a call.
Ring of Fire would be tricky, but I saw a screenshot on another forum from someone who completed the final mission with henchies. I'll see if he's interested in giving you a call. :happy53:
vizacahmin
13-05-2005, 06:37
Just build up a friends list of people who don't suck. If you have a good group, pay close attention to who is actually doing the killing, the good healing, and the fancy special effects. Become friends with those players and play with them again - and totally ditch the rest of those monkies.
Personally I feel it's an acceptable downside to having a MMORPG which actually encourages skillful playing, instead of simply handing you victory.
This is probably the best advice I have ever seen. I just go to towns and if I need people to work with, I'll jump in with anyone if my friends list is empty. People either suck or they don't. The ones that don't suck, get on my friends list.
Sometimes, after a rough day at work, I need to kill something right away LOL. random parties work for this and it's a good way to meet new people. If they suck I just warp out rather than add to my death toll...
Tanthoris
14-05-2005, 02:18
Some "tactics" work for certain times, some dont. Henchmen follow you and stay on THE target. Thats all fine and dandy. But if your the tank, like me, with the added fighter or brawler, that means NO ONE is really protecting the healer. And if the healer dies, the group goes. At least with human players, someone might be focusing on protecting the healer while the rest go out and slaughter. Which means, not everyone is focused on the same mob. But hey, its better to have a living healer then a dead healer. The other holds true for range-fighting mobs. Range-fighting mobs can do some serious damage if left till later. I always try to follow a certain order of casters, ranged, and then melee. That way, the casters dont keep doing massive damage, energy-drains, or healing. Then the ranged cant use their specialized shots like Pin Down or something else which slows me down. And if someone is protecting the healer, the melee isnt that much of an issue, especially if there is an elementalist and the melee are focused in one area.
Becca Bellows
20-05-2005, 18:28
I finished the entire game (yes, including the final mission) except for Aurora Glade (which is possible, but far too annoying) with nothing but henchmen.
Actually, the quality of players at the final mission - not to mention the 98.5% lack of Monks with brains - is so unbelievably poor that your chances are much better if you only use henchmen. Having everybody attack the SAME target is vital on this one, which never, ever happens in random pickup groups. Of course, it helps a lot to be Mesmer primary, since the other henchmen compliment this skill/spell setup the best.
- Becca Bellows, Ascended Mesmer/Monk
- Bella Bellows, Necromancer
- Brianna Bellows, Monk/Mesmer
get a (good) guild man, thats all the advise i can give u. ive tried elona reach 20plus times with random groups, and the one was even more noob then the other. so i decided to ask my guild and before i knew i had a full guild team complete with healing monks, and i knew them all and knew what they were doing, so we beat the mission in 1 try... no problem at all. playing with henchies is out of the question for me, because of the fact that nobody talks back in team talk when i chat :winking47 . and they all have standard builds so they suck big time and have no creativity like a RL player so they suck.
with my guild, it was really ez to beat the game, and now theyre helping me on skill hunt while i help them on missions. also u can have a lot of fun with them in tomb :happy65:
roguebanshee
25-06-2005, 03:25
The main failling of henchmen is that they rarely let you pull anything, but instead rush in to make sure you get aggro from every group within a 5 mile radius.
A bit like some players you'll encounter (if you haven't already).
There's also the thing with Alesia getting a disproportionate amount of attention from the mobs. Things will often beeline for her while completely ignoring any damage and hexes heaped upon them.
But henchmen will not abandon you in the middle of a mission, they might be stuck somewhere but that's about it. They also won't complain about being asked to tank while at -60% DP. They're good at focus fire, as long as you are alive and call targets. They generally won't run off and aggro stuff before you're ready, though it happens from time to time.
A team of good players beat out henchmen, but henchmen beat out the common pug.
GeniusLoci
25-06-2005, 13:42
What Axehilt said above is also my way to deal with all these monkeys outside. I play in random groups and when I like the style of some people I put them in my friends list. Also, I dropped my old guild and made my own, and even though it's very small (still small) the guys there are (and will be) only awesome players. Given that I try to invite only good players bur many times they like their current guild, so we chat in Friends list and play together.
In last few days I was dropped, forgotten, killed, sweared and hated for I had the "luck" to do missions (or tey to do them) with looters, quitters and retards... But what's the world without stupid emptyheads.. :lol:
TrippyIMP
25-06-2005, 21:36
i haven't read all the replies but main thing why henchies work better then PUG's in early game (i'd say about to the point of ascension) is that when in a PUG the players start with focused fire but as soon as they are attacked they attack the monster that attacks them cause they are afraid to die. henchies on the other hand aren't afraid to die so they just keep attacking the monster that you attack, making that monster drop faster and thus beeing able to go to the next monster faster.
Hunter Noventa
27-06-2005, 04:13
The latest mission I did with all Henchies was the Ice Caves. I had made it most of the way with a decent team, but a couple people had left and we go caught up on the last stretch and those Mursaat came up from behind and pwned Evennia.
Then I got all henchies and had no trouble outpacing the Mursaat. Funny That. The only issue was clearing what I could from around the cell and making sure to blow open the escape route before blowing the cell, as I did not know if it would give me a keg.
roguebanshee
27-06-2005, 16:11
The latest mission I did with all Henchies was the Ice Caves. I had made it most of the way with a decent team, but a couple people had left and we go caught up on the last stretch and those Mursaat came up from behind and pwned Evennia.
Then I got all henchies and had no trouble outpacing the Mursaat. Funny That. The only issue was clearing what I could from around the cell and making sure to blow open the escape route before blowing the cell, as I did not know if it would give me a keg.
For Ice Caves you don't want to outrun the Mursaat at the end, instead you should wait for them to pass the cave opening (make sure you're out of aggro range). The ones near the prison won't chase you into the cave so you have all the time you need.
After the huge group of Mursaat elementalists go past you should just take your time, they'll be blown to bits by the dwarven siege machines.
It is also possible to complete Iron Mines with hench even though they don't get infused after returning to the Seer. You just have to make sure the Mursaat focus on you instead of the hench, and take the back path near the Seer to avoid a lot of Mursaat (including all the Mursaat bosses).
Later in the game, henchies are cannon fodder. You'll be grounded into dog meat iIf you try to bring henchies to underworld or even on most missions after ascending.
I tried to do dragon lair's (The one that leads to Droknors forge) quest 5 times with real people parties - after about an hour and a half, i used Henchies, first try, EASY. I dont get it either but Henchies work great for me :happy34:
I tried to do dragon lair's (The one that leads to Droknors forge) quest 5 times with real people parties - after about an hour and a half, i used Henchies, first try, EASY. I dont get it either but Henchies work great for me :happy34:
Same here. My first try at dragon's Lair was with Hrenchies and it was amazingly easy. :clap:
Except Lina always cast protective spirits on me when i was facing melee foes and refuse to cast it when i was facing caster :muddle:
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