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View Full Version : Henchmen Should Be Henchmen



Mariers Arnimane
17-05-2005, 09:58
I know GW is all about interacting with people, but there comes a time when trying to do a quest with a bunch of people who think they are invincible and rush into battle regardless of what profession they are and what you tell them NOT to do (and all the other major annoyances random people do in a group) just makes playing with other people a pain.

That's where the henchmen come in. Even if I'm playing with friends, sometimes we grab Alesia for extra healing support or any other of the henchmen for an area that our group is weak in. However, the henchmen don't seem to have the best...common sense. Alesia, as an example, always runs into the middle of the fray as if she's some sort of tank, which makes her focus more on healing herself than healing us.

For one, they are all extremely antsy. They seem to like to play in pools of poison water like little children, jumping in and out of the dirty water to the dismay of their parents. Annoying when you have to keep curing them of poison and healing them when their healths are low. Even more annoying is when they do it during a battle.

Secondly, though they follow you without question, unlike player characters, they seem not to have any notion of stealth. "Hug the walls, everybody, so we don't get that group of 12+ Tengu on us..." Oh no. The henchmen are ready to pounce at anything, no matter what it is or however many of them they are. Then the whole plan is ruined, and the group gets slaughtered.

What I'm trying to get here is, perhaps AN can add a little command function/button/menu somewhere for the henchmen. If any of you have played Dynasty Warriors IV, there was a simple way of keeping your bodyguards in order. By pressing the select button, you could cycle through 3 options--attack, defend, or stay. I want to see this sort of thing implemented for the henchmen in GW for better control. After all, they ARE henchmen who are supposed to follow your orders, not just your footsteps.

We could have an attack option, which allows the henchmen to attack normally (when and what you attack, utilizing all their skills). We could have a defense option, which allows the henchmen to not attack unless attacked first, and focus on defensive spells and healing spells for those tough fights. And then a "stay" option, where the henchmen wait patiently for you on the road while you run through a poisoned swamp to grab that chest or whatever. Maybe also something to fix their formations: follow the leader in a line like baby chickens (no random stepping around), fan out to avoid all being pummeled by an AOE spell, etc.

Those are only the basic suggestions. I don't know if it's possible to achieve, or if we could add more specific commands, but this has just been bugging me lately.

It's just a suggestion to help GW with its horrible AI for the henchmen. Any suggestions, comments, add-ons, complaints about the henchmen are welcome. Perhaps in time something will be done.

DutchSmurf
17-05-2005, 14:57
I think the henchman are fine. They only attack when you attack too or when you are standing still and a monster comes close. And close means the monsters are already attacking. About the poison water it is your own fault actually. They will always try to stand just behing you. If there are 2 real players and they split up, then it can give problems, since if the other one starts attacking, the henchman see that as a sign to attack too and take the shortest way. Alesia and the others stay close to you, so if you are a warrior and run into a mob, the henchman will follow. But usually the fight comes to Alesia (due to AI).
Just don't split up and watch out where you are standing and the henchman will give no problems.

Lord Anthrax
17-05-2005, 15:05
Myself I think they need to do four things with Henchmen.

1)Make them equal to your character level, wherever you go.
2)Give you some simple AI commands, as was mentioned above. Attack, Defend, Stay would work.
3)Give you the ability to hire multiples of a given type.
4)Allow you to maintain a henchman party when you Map Travel.

Aramon
17-05-2005, 20:04
Yes the AI needs a little work. The healer should stay to the rear of the group like the mage and Messer do but also you must remember something.

If these changes are put it then there is no reason to have a group of people with you. The henchmen are just substitutes. They fill a gap but don't do as a job a good as a person would there.

Taniniver
17-05-2005, 20:50
I think the henchman are fine. They only attack when you attack too or when you are standing still and a monster comes close. And close means the monsters are already attacking. About the poison water it is your own fault actually. They will always try to stand just behing you. If there are 2 real players and they split up, then it can give problems, since if the other one starts attacking, the henchman see that as a sign to attack too and take the shortest way. Alesia and the others stay close to you, so if you are a warrior and run into a mob, the henchman will follow. But usually the fight comes to Alesia (due to AI).
Just don't split up and watch out where you are standing and the henchman will give no problems.I have to disagree here DutchSmurf. The henchies ARE stupid when it comes to poison water. Many times now, I have carefully avoided it, with just me and henchies, running straight across bridges, trying to keep them close behind, etc.. and they seem to get in others way and wade through the water.

Also, I have seen the fighter (or brawler, I forget) stand in poison to attack an enemy, when they are literally about 2 feet from land. They could run a few steps, the enemy follows, they continue to fight without dying from poison.

Finally, the healer hench is just stupid. In the same circumstance there, with the guy stood in the poison getting health degen, she just sat casting basic healing spells every few seconds, instead of casting healing breeze. This went on for at LEAST a full minute.

Mariers Arnimane
17-05-2005, 23:42
Yes the AI needs a little work. The healer should stay to the rear of the group like the mage and Messer do but also you must remember something.

If these changes are put it then there is no reason to have a group of people with you. The henchmen are just substitutes. They fill a gap but don't do as a job a good as a person would there.

I do agree that GW is all about player interaction, but I am just tired of the way many, many random people function in a makeshift group for a mission/adventure. I'm sure not only myself have endured such horrors.

Even if the changes are implemented, the henchmen still will be henchmen. You can't talk to them or anything--it gets lonely. But that is why I enjoy playing WITH friends WITH a henchmen backup. Henchmen can't replace real people, but they CAN lessen the stress.

Kaziurra
18-05-2005, 04:21
Myself I think they need to do four things with Henchmen.

1)Make them equal to your character level, wherever you go.
2)Give you some simple AI commands, as was mentioned above. Attack, Defend, Stay would work.
3)Give you the ability to hire multiples of a given type.
4)Allow you to maintain a henchman party when you Map Travel.

Actually, #3 is already in action. Later in teh game, you can choose between 2 different monk henchies, and at Yaks bend, you can choose between 2 warriors.

Lord Anthrax
18-05-2005, 13:05
If these changes are put it then there is no reason to have a group of people with you.

Good. That's exactly what I want. That was what attracted me to this game in the first place. The ability to play it without hordes of annoying lamers griefing and kill-stealing and loot-stealing and spamming your chat window when you're trying to play, AND paying money every month for the privilege.

I've only partied for the quests that absolutely require it pre-Searing, and the rest of the time it's been me and my merry Henchies ganking everything in sight. Ahh, blissful peace and quiet. :cool:

Cebex
18-05-2005, 18:36
Actually, #3 is already in action. Later in teh game, you can choose between 2 different monk henchies, and at Yaks bend, you can choose between 2 warriors.

The 'extra' henchmen are not duplicates, but they do increase your choices. For example, the warriors- one has a sword and shield, the other has an axe. Many times, I wished I could replace the axeman with another swordsman. My henchmen often needed all the armor they can get. :happy59:

Crack
19-05-2005, 05:13
I find most of the henchmen are ok until the desert, but the Mesmer/ Necro henchmen are worthless because they are so incredibly fragile. They are almost always the first thing to be targetted and don't seem to be interested in using skills to protect themselves.

The mage is decent, but if he was able to choose better firestorm targets then he might actually be a real asset.

Brenwyn
19-05-2005, 13:13
The mage is decent, but if he was able to choose better firestorm targets then he might actually be a real asset.

He does seem to spend a lot of energy firestorming corpses.

Tanthalis
20-05-2005, 01:46
I find most of the henchmen are ok until the desert, but the Mesmer/ Necro henchmen are worthless because they are so incredibly fragile. They are almost always the first thing to be targetted and don't seem to be interested in using skills to protect themselves.

The mage is decent, but if he was able to choose better firestorm targets then he might actually be a real asset.




Actually I thin the henchman should have basic settings (as mentioned before). It should be very easy. It worked well in NWN
I would like to see the henchman use more of there abilities

Clawsss
20-05-2005, 09:37
I agree that the henchies are just AI, but we all have to keep in mind that if they were the seasoned vets that we are, we wouldn't need each other. The henchies can't be anywhere near perfect, so they have to stay in that 50-50 range of intelligence. The only thing i've stood and watch the henchman do that makes sense is if the whole groups dies, the henchman survivors know to res the character (if neccessary), and then the healer.

I agree with being able to give them specific commands(e.g. Formation, overall combat style, etc.). That makes realistic, and practical sense.

I don't agree with being able to have multiple of the same henchman in your group, or with them being of an equal level to you regardless of where you are.

Overall, i say that the henchman are just fine the way they are. They could be made just a wee-bit smarter, but too much and it would be "Henchman Wars", not Guild Wars.

showme
20-05-2005, 22:24
My main issue with the henchman is the healer. When something is beating on her it is like she has it timed to the second when your AE spells are going to go off and just at that second runs just far enough out of the range so nothing gets hit ... it's like clockwork. I also hate when I am laying there dead and she rezes the another henchman and leaves me.

Desuka
21-05-2005, 08:59
The henchman have a few major bugs that need fixing. Play with them for more than 2 hours and you'll eventually see it...

Most often it happens with Alesia. They will run away, through mountains, through terrain, and get stuck somewhere. And even if you find them, you can't do anything. One time Alesia ran off after a group wipe, and we wiped again. I clicked her name to see where she was, and she was under the world.

Not just that, though. Their pathing is HORRIBLE. Yes, they always path through the poison, but not just that. After, let's say, you die, and one hench survives... what happens? That hench runs back and forth, towards your corpse, then away. Rinse, repeat. wtf is that? I've had to map out of sooo many quests and missions because the AI are too damn stupid to run to my location. They run in circles, and they run away from any mobs JUST so you can't get the whole group rezzed.

I think there needs to be a way to kill them off, in case of a wipe and one survives, leaving youi no choice but to map out. I mean, seriously, how stupid is it that you can get STUCK like that?

Lord Anthrax
21-05-2005, 10:58
Overall, i say that the henchman are just fine the way they are. They could be made just a wee-bit smarter, but too much and it would be "Henchman Wars", not Guild Wars.

Just wondering, can you take Henchies into PvP(never done it, so I don't know)? If not, then what's the problem? Smart, capable Henchies wouldn't screw PvP because they can't be used there. Therefore, those of us who don't care a whit about PvP could have a better PvE experience.

And if you can, then that should be eliminated. Then you can have PvP clean and free with other players, and people like me can enjoy the rest of the game without having any need whatsoever to play with a bunch of idiots(as a great number of the other players are).

captncraig
25-05-2005, 10:08
I definitely think its good that you can only take one of any henchman. If it wasn't like that I could just grab three healers and go attack whatever I want without really worrying about strategy or anything else. And I think the system forces you to make friends or join a guild to find people you can play with, which is also good.

Hunt3r_kill4
26-05-2005, 05:31
Just wondering, can you take Henchies into PvP(never done it, so I don't know)? If not, then what's the problem? Smart, capable Henchies wouldn't screw PvP because they can't be used there. Therefore, those of us who don't care a whit about PvP could have a better PvE experience.

And if you can, then that should be eliminated. Then you can have PvP clean and free with other players, and people like me can enjoy the rest of the game without having any need whatsoever to play with a bunch of idiots(as a great number of the other players are).

Henchmen CAN be used in PvP, but only a certain amount of them. They are easy targets in PvP, and any henchmen team can be wiped out in a second.