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View Full Version : Why do people player hate? OR Why do people refuse to adventure without a "W" or "Mo"



Poor Tom
19-05-2005, 19:36
Here's the story... I was set to go on the Boralis pass quest to Beacons Perch. We had a party of 6 set up... one of the members was a W/Mo and from the first step into our adventure he kept complaining abotu how we should kick some people out of our party and recruit a warrior and a monk.

He kept saying how we were all doomed and theres no way to win the quest without a warrior and a monk. During the second or third mob, he died and another person in our party. Luckily about half of us have signet rings for rez, and we told them we'd rez them. The W/Mo was like don't bother and he quit... soon after another quit. So as a lowly Mesmer/Elementalist I was thinking this party was about to disband... So I say, "Well I'm going on ahead, if you guys wanna come youre more than welcome to."

To my surprise the other three people left said they'd like to venture ahead. So there we were... 4 people and a good mix of Mesmers, Elementalists and Necromancers.... That's it... 4 mages wandering around the Shiverpeak Mountains. We made it through and didn't have many problems along the way. We just stuck by each other, and made use of our own healing spells, and the blood wells by two of our necros. It was fun and proved you don't always need a Warrior to Tank or a Monk to heal...

My question is, why do people hate being in partys with mage classes, and always (Even if they are a warrior or a monk) demand that other warriors and monks join them? I'm interested in seeing other peoples opinions. PEace! :)

dirtycash
19-05-2005, 19:41
Here's the story... I was set to go on the Boralis pass quest to Beacons Perch. We had a party of 6 set up... one of the members was a W/Mo and from the first step into our adventure he kept complaining abotu how we should kick some people out of our party and recruit a warrior and a monk.

He kept saying how we were all doomed and theres no way to win the quest without a warrior and a monk. During the second or third mob, he died and another person in our party. Luckily about half of us have signet rings for rez, and we told them we'd rez them. The W/Mo was like don't bother and he quit... soon after another quit. So as a lowly Mesmer/Elementalist I was thinking this party was about to disband... So I say, "Well I'm going on ahead, if you guys wanna come youre more than welcome to."

To my surprise the other three people left said they'd like to venture ahead. So there we were... 4 people and a good mix of Mesmers, Elementalists and Necromancers.... That's it... 4 mages wandering around the Shiverpeak Mountains. We made it through and didn't have many problems along the way. We just stuck by each other, and made use of our own healing spells, and the blood wells by two of our necros. It was fun and proved you don't always need a Warrior to Tank or a Monk to heal...

My question is, why do people hate being in partys with mage classes, and always (Even if they are a warrior or a monk) demand that other warriors and monks join them? I'm interested in seeing other peoples opinions. PEace! :)

Because they are sheep. :happy34:

Now, being that I have a level 20 monk, I will always advise a monk or Alesia. Just makes matters easier.

As to the 143,457,268,345,234 W/Mo that are out there. I'm sorry its just such a lame noninventive class. I would also venture to say that 50% of them suck royally.

So kudos to you and your band of mages! Mesmers are tough to play PvM. (I am finding this out with my level 11. Thank God for my secondary being necro)

falynn
19-05-2005, 20:11
I play a lvl 12 R/Me and I've done quite a few quests with other Ranger-somethings and mages, and never had any problems. They tend to be much more sensible as well.

Usually take along a healer henchie just to be on the safe side, but the henchie almost always dies first :p

Phaeax
19-05-2005, 20:21
Usually take along a healer henchie just to be on the safe side, but the henchie almost always dies first :p
Alesia isn't the sharpest tool in the shed; I once saw her Backfire herself to death trying to heal herself. And she drops like a sack of potatoes if she gets focused on. But all told, she's a trooper who doesn't spare the healing, and best of all, she doesn't complain about her job. ;)

Once I got a few skills with my Me/N, I became more of a force than my other characters. As a result, when I'm looking for party members, I look for the opposite... they already have tanks and healers available as henchmen. ;)

Sheriff Lobo
19-05-2005, 20:32
I'm a R/W and I have never...that's right never until this point had a warrior in my party, It was either a randomn collection of R/Mo or Rangers, Elementalists and Necromancers even mesmers at times and we've always pulled through. I'm not sure exactly why you would want warriors in your party...personally I think warriors are good in a relatively weak party (pure elementalists, monks or whatever) but it is very well possible to have an absolutely amazing party without Warriors. I have nothing against Warriors, but recently on the forums they seem to be getting a bad rap. In any case the dude in the original poster's party was honestly one of the more idiotic players in this game...I mean honestly...that was just a stupid way to act leaving like that. In any case there are good warriors out there but I really really don't think they're necessary as long as you have a well rounded party

garzahd
19-05-2005, 21:10
Most of the player base thinks they know more about the game than they really do. (myself included, probably)

One problem with lack of Mesmer love is that your accomplishments are not as visible as those of other classes. At the end of the battle, your groupmates may say "wow that team sucked" but it may be just as likely that the mesmer on your team was performing well.

Contrast the Monk; everyone can see that the Monk is doing their job well because those HP bars keep bouncing back up so much.

dirtycash
19-05-2005, 21:18
Contrast the Monk; everyone can see that the Monk is doing their job well because those HP bars keep bouncing back up so much.


You'd be suprised how much I've made up for someones stupidity, and still received no thanks for my monkeying.


And to Phaeax, I have an interesting story along those lines:

We were in the Shiverpeaks, my mesmer and my henchie party. Well we just fought off some Dryders so naturally we were at about 1/2 health and still draining. All of use were staring at Alesia waiting for her to figure it out. Finally, she started healing. First me, then the Fighter and so on. Well she must have been running low on energy because Claude(Necromancer hench) thought it a good idea to Blood ritual her. So naturally he sacrificed 17% of his remaining 18% and died from degen.

I guess he thought he was taking one for the team.

Phaeax
19-05-2005, 21:21
You'd be suprised how much I've made up for someones stupidity, and still received no thanks for my monkeying.


And to Phaeax, I have an interesting story along those lines:

We were in the Shiverpeaks, my mesmer and my henchie party. Well we just fought off some Dryders so naturally we were at about 1/2 health and still draining. All of use were staring at Alesia waiting for her to figure it out. Finally, she started healing. First me, then the Fighter and so on. Well she must have been running low on energy because Claude(Necromancer hench) thought it a good idea to Blood ritual her. So naturally he sacrificed 17% of his remaining 18% and died from degen.

I guess he thought he was taking one for the team.
I stopped bringing Claude because he seemed to be in a constant race to the death... "Hey I'd better cast Blood Ritual on everybody; oh crap, I'm dead!"

Nobleman Azure
19-05-2005, 21:55
in reply to garzhad,

Yeah i agree, and also mesmer trickery is not "seen" the majority looks at damage = god and think that damage is the only deciding factor of a good spell. Its rare that someone ever thanked me for the interrupting i did, and no one ever thanked me for making that monk run around in circles because i kept his energy below 5. And this is all because you cant see the results of what we mesmers do.

Feynt
19-05-2005, 22:01
Claude's not that bad, he just gets a little over zealous when there's a lot of casters in the group.

To continue the tales of a band of brave casters, I lead a group of four necromancers out to do Althea's Ashes back when it was still uber (four matyrs up top instead of the two, one on either side, the ash claw, and the fire caller). We won without a death penalty, and in fact I still had the +2% morale from the boss we killed along the way (the gargoyle boss, Spasmo I think the name is).

You can see the results of that fight here (http://feynt.kicks-***.net/gw013.bmp). Fair warning though it's the original screen shot, so it's in BMP format. Why couldn't GW write in PNG format?

Corrodias
19-05-2005, 22:08
i never -thank- my fellow players for doing something right. should i? generally i just assume everyone is doing a good job unless something there's a glaringly obvious problem such as the person often being half a compassmap behind the rest of the party, or the warrior running half a map away to die where i can't heal him. sometimes we exchange GJ's at the end... i'm probably just not observant enough to realize when someone is really doing a good job.

Feynt
19-05-2005, 22:17
I tend to thank people who save my life. Sadly since I don't make many parties myself (I like to go afk while a party collects, I go grab a drink or something while I wait) I'm almost never in a party with a necromancer or a mesmer, and when I am they're a mesmer for Fast Cast.

qix
19-05-2005, 23:41
Most of the player base thinks they know more about the game than they really do. (myself included, probably)

One problem with lack of Mesmer love is that your accomplishments are not as visible as those of other classes. At the end of the battle, your groupmates may say "wow that team sucked" but it may be just as likely that the mesmer on your team was performing well.

Contrast the Monk; everyone can see that the Monk is doing their job well because those HP bars keep bouncing back up so much.


I agree, the effect of mesmers is not always seen, and that causes us to be underestimated. Often the party wont realize how I saved them from being wiped off by preventing monsters from using their skills, which could have wiped the party off.

In higher level missions (Like the desert ones), it is even harder for a mesmer to get into a team. Parties want Tanks (W/mo), Primary Monks, and Elemntalists for AOE. I've personally never seen a team asking for a mesmer. If the team has a good leader though he will know how much a mesmer can be important, rather than having 4 w/mo

On the other side howeve, there is also hate towards w/mo from people not playing one. I also play a w/mo and I enjoy playing it, and I admit- playing a mesmer requires more skill (Domination requires extremely fast analyzing and reflexes to interrupt the correct skill on time), but a w/mo has its own challenges as well, it does not mean everyone playing one is dumb/boring. I personally enjoy playing W/Mo too, and I can see how every class has its own thing that it can contribute to the party.

Jeriak
19-05-2005, 23:56
my friends and I just finished the last 2 missions of the game without a warrior since anytime we let a warrior/monk in they just screw us up. ive come to the conclusion at 90% of warrior monks dont know what they are doing. but all in all we didnt need them either.

SilverChuckles
20-05-2005, 09:10
my friends and I just finished the last 2 missions of the game without a warrior since anytime we let a warrior/monk in they just screw us up. ive come to the conclusion at 90% of warrior monks dont know what they are doing. but all in all we didnt need them either.

I played through the first time as a W/Mo and loved it. That being said I know for a fact that I was not one of those 90%, and that it is a way over-played class. I personally think the biggest problem is that no one ever seems to want to play together. I always try to start my own parties and actually try to lead the team, although people don't like to listen, especially Warriors. Personally I love having Me and N to my team because it takes more skill to play these effectively and the people that do play these are more willing to do their part and play as a team(which is the whole concept of the game).

Axehilt
20-05-2005, 09:18
The best groups I've been in have had 3 or 4 Elementalists.

The worst groups I've been in are usually the fault of 1-3 really dumb players. And it seems like 75% of those party-wiping suicidal bastards are W/Mos. :P

You can do perfectly well without a dedicated healer if your party has enough self-heals and party-wide defensive skills (Watch Yourself, Ward Against Melee, and a zillion other skills.)

However attempting to convince the average player online of this fact is not something you should do. The average player is a dumb brick incapable of advanced tactics/strategy, and he needs the warm shelter of simplicity.

Probably the most irritating thing to me is Warriors who label themselves "tanks" without actually having any semblance of party-protecting ability unless you shave monsters off on them while running. In many cases, my characters are far more capable of helping the party absorb damage - either through Aegis, Ward Against Melee, Blinding ranger traps, or similar means. Warriors certainly have their own set of party-assisting abilities, but I see very few of these self-proclaimed "tanks" using them.

Herthbul
20-05-2005, 12:56
That would be why I'm a War/Ele that uses "Watch Yourself!" and Ward Against Melee. The ability to assist your team as a whole is better than just powering yourself up. That's why many W/Mo's aren't exactly the best choice for missions. Mending is handy when you're solo yes, but it isn't helping that Monk that's getting beat upon is it?

Still the most important aspect of a team is of course teamwork. Beating the last mission with only 7 people and having 10% morale boost at the end was something I never though was possible til I did it the other day.

Mayella
20-05-2005, 13:58
There was a discussion about exactly this in another forum part. I said it there, and I keep saying it: not any class is REQUIRED to finish a mission. A healer will surely make things easier, but a full group of casters/rangers can pull it off too. Usually, their crippling and damaging output is large enough to kill mobs before they kill the party. Plus, they are used to not rushing into a zillion mobs at a time, so less problems with agro management.

I've finished several missions (even 1 after Ascension) without a Monk or a Warrior. It's possible. But it's only possible if all party members have faith in the succes and have faith in the skills everyone brings.

tHrs
20-05-2005, 15:05
The W/Mo i party with usually just die and wont wait for the others to regen energy, just run into the middle of 6 mobs and wait for a miracle or something while we are still comming

zalzan
20-05-2005, 15:20
if I had a dime for very mission some stupid "tank" ruined by rushing in without planning or thought I'd be rich. At least twice I have been literally feet from completing a mission and had the stupid "tank" rush in headlong and cause mayhem before any of us could agree on some tactics.

The Mesmer role I find takes some real thinking...especially in balancing and timing the use of interrupting spells and area damage spells.

raisenero
21-05-2005, 10:01
I think our effect is too subtle for many people's liking. Did I kill that guy? Well, sort of, I mean if you count using shatter enchantment on his mending hands. Did I heal the party? Not exactly, unless you count stopping a meteor from smashing down on them as healing. I mean the responses for what a warrior or a monk does (stereotypically, not talking about unique builds) are easy to sum up.

What do you do?
Warrior: I kill
Monk: I heal
Mesmer: That depends

Jonuss Madrick
21-05-2005, 13:41
Yeah I know exactly how you feel. I can deal the most damage of anyone in the party but it doesn't get shown. I also had a similar experience. I was playing riverside, and we had three warriors, and two of them and our monk died. What was left was a W/R, N/R, Me/N (me). We went around riverside trying to find a boss so the N/R guy could use his rez signet again. The three of us killed three towers and all the mantle guard under them. Its not hard to do a mission if you have the right people playing smart.

Darris
22-05-2005, 11:18
I'm gonna jump on the grief bandwagon here. After 4 solo infuse runs with henchmen (and by "run" I mean kill everything to the seer) I decided to try to run with a real group. Well, it seems these groups grab any and everyone (especially wars) cause the more bodies you have, the more chances of THEM dieing instead of you. I didn't understand the term "Infuse RUN" until I went with these guys and boy oh boy did we fail miserably. After the run I re-organized my skills and went in the next group ready to leave the guy behind me evern farther behind. Suffice to say, out of the 8 man group, only the 3 mesmers in the party made it to the top. After that, I was always the last 2-3 people to make it to the top of the gauntlet. (Hurray for windborn, illus of weak, distortion, and +health items!) Guess who usually died first? That's right, the warriors! :lol:

Anyways, I'm always hard-pressed to find a group now-a-days. I feel like the fat kid in gym class being picked for dodgeball. :grrr:

Mayella
22-05-2005, 13:00
In higher level missions (Like the desert ones), it is even harder for a mesmer to get into a team. Parties want Tanks (W/mo), Primary Monks, and Elemntalists for AOE. I've personally never seen a team asking for a mesmer. If the team has a good leader though he will know how much a mesmer can be important, rather than having 4 w/mo

The funny thing is: Mesmers can make the Thirsty River scenario especially A LOT easier. I've helped several people on my friends list to get through this mission. I do those priests in with ease. Take a good mesmer there, with anti-caster skills loaded. Actually, this mission doesn't even need a W. It's much easier with damage dealers since you need to kill quick. A tank isn't really usefull there.

I am playing a second char now, and it's a monk. I already dread groups with 3 or more W/Mo. Last night, I had one of those groups. One of the Ws claimed he (and I quote) 'knows everything' (he really said that). He didn't wait for me to regen my energy after a fight, allthough I asked countless times and hit the CTRL+energy bar often. We get to a point where there are several groups of mobs and he pulls them all. Then all those zillion mobs he pulled agro me, and he starts yelling 'I have to heal the healer now!', not realising I hadn't even had enough energy to do much when the fight started. Needless to say, this group didn't make it to the end. I died, and the zillion mobs started agroing the rest of the party. Fight was over pretty soon after that.

I got a new group. One W in it, and a few had a Mo as secondary. A sensible W. He lured groups instead of running into them. When things really got rough, they helped me and healed themselves a bit when the fight was taking long and I was low on energy. We finished the mission smoothly and decided to do the next 2 missions with the same group. Was a blast! :)

To the original poster: I really have NO problems with groups that do not have a specific class. I've gone through so many missions without a W or Mo (or both) by now to know that it's not a big deal.

Legally Dead
22-05-2005, 15:00
This is just my opinion, but I'm glad that Mesmers are not looked upon as being a class act. The reason is, in PvP no one pays any heed to you, unless they were or are playing a Mez themselves. I built my character as a Me/Mo with smite as the secondary during the BWE. Not really hard to take down Monks or the infamous W/Mo. As far as PvE I know that you can sit along time before being invited into a party, brought back Mez after a month hiatus, so what I do now is start a party. My primary char R/E when forming parties I always look for that Me over someoneís head and promptly invite them as I know the asset and benefits of having one onboard. If you feel left out thatís all right, the less people know about our class the better off we are.
P.S. the char in the aviator is Dee and she could dish it out in PvP, a real monk killer:)

Vylae
23-05-2005, 02:47
The game is really designed around range combat.... If you have ranged combat you have 100% easier time. Why?

The huge agro ranges.... you get a large group of mobs and when i would take the Fighter henchmen along... whamo fighter and cleric henchmen dead...

I stopped taking Stephan along and went to JUst casters and rangers... sure i lose a party member when we one gets "picked" on... but most time I am the one.. and As a N/Me I rarely ever die.

It is because you are better off picking one group of mobs at a time... you get no bonus if you kill more then one group... so why DO it

Warriors tend to be impatient and just charge in headstrong...


I complete ashes at level 11 with just me and 3 hench... every mission i have completed has been me and 3 henches...

Dragon Flame
23-05-2005, 04:34
Ahh..mesmers..i just started one, lvl 5 in just out of pre sear. The reason people try to get a monk and a warrior is cause both are meant to make the fighting easier. The warrior draws the attention of all the enemies, and tries to do as much as he can to damage them, while a good monk heals him, and the rest of the team does their thing!

im not sure what that W/Mo guy of yours was complaining about. you can go at the shiverpeaks without a monk, if you can heal yourself, and he WAS the warrior, no need for more then 1 warrior on a 6 person team, tho it sometimes works out well.

Mesmers are fun. im starting to see just how they can mess the crap out of people already..so fun :worship:

Nobleman Azure
23-05-2005, 08:37
What do you do?
Warrior: I kill
Monk: I heal
Mesmer: That depends

you nailed it right there. Its true that most mislead people are gauging skills and a class as a whole by the basis of damage. Warriors and Nukers DO damage while monks TAKE OFF damage or a more obvious looking way to PREVENT damage. All has to deal with damage.

Of course mesmers skill can be based off damage too but people with a closed mind wont even begin to understand how. For example.

Imagined Burden Slows Enemy Down, if you are being chased by a warrior and you run, then wouldnt the warriors damage output cut in significant amounts?

Most Mesmer skills drain energy, if you drained a caster of energy, wouldnt his damage output be cut or even becomes zero?

Many other examples exist of course.

Stygian Abyss
24-05-2005, 10:53
They need to make meser skills look more flashy so people know we're actually doing something instead of just standing there. Maybe for something like, say illusion, have a purple ghost or something hanging around the affected creature.

UncleJemima
24-05-2005, 14:02
Yea lol people can never tell if i am actually doing anything, even though i normally just kill enemy healers and spellcasters. My elementalist guildmate was like, you do no damage, but i was busy draining the enemy caster's energy. Mesmer is generally a more difficult class to play than the rest in my opinion, and nublets that cant play the class give up on it or dont even consider it. yes PvE is very hard for mesmers because they are not tanks and they dont deal incredible damage, but PvP is rape with a good complimenting team.

thantel
25-05-2005, 23:11
They need to make meser skills look more flashy so people know we're actually doing something instead of just standing there. Maybe for something like, say illusion, have a purple ghost or something hanging around the affected creature.

Mesmers are supposed to be subtle. I don't mind if people don't know we're actually doing something, particularly if they are the enemy. :) But yes, I can see where people are coming from when their teammates don't believe the mesmer is doing anything simply because they can't see it.

Kiru Malkav
26-05-2005, 01:59
I recently switched from a Ranger/Elementalist to a Ranger/Mesmer, and I must say I'm having alot more fun as a Mesmer. I think the thanks you get as any non monk class is a bit lacking, but the enjoyment factor makes up for it. I run a combination of energy removal, health degen and interrupt skills, and it's alot more fun when you know what you're doing.

For example, you degen the monk, they start healing lots, your team kills a few of their team while the monk is busy, and you keep distracting and disrupting him until he's sitting there with no health and no energy and hasn't pulled off a single heal. It's fun!

I also know from experience that Mesmer's are possibly the most annoying class in the game to play against. Spirit Shackles is probably something that annoyed me the most in PvE, as well as alot of other Mesmer skills. If people don't know how good a Mesmer can be, they obviously haven't bumped into many.

PS, Soloing in the deserts is fun when they can't use meteor. :D

Illusionists
26-05-2005, 03:48
Alesia isn't the sharpest tool in the shed; I once saw her Backfire herself to death trying to heal herself. And she drops like a sack of potatoes if she gets focused on. But all told, she's a trooper who doesn't spare the healing, and best of all, she doesn't complain about her job. ;)

Once I got a few skills with my Me/N, I became more of a force than my other characters. As a result, when I'm looking for party members, I look for the opposite... they already have tanks and healers available as henchmen. ;)

Only Monks, Warriors, and Elementalists are hot professions. I play Mesmer and I often get cold noses =(. Then I learnt to spam every spell to teach people that I am actually doing something

Pyro Gl
26-05-2005, 05:19
tanks are very overrated by the general population. Once in the random team arena (forgot what it was called) my team of all casters and no monk had a flawless victory against three W/Mo's and a W/E in about a minute.

Whenever there's only a W/Mo left, almost all of them will act the same, it's pretty funny. First they'll realize everyone else is dead and they'll stop attacking and stand there for a second. They'll run over towards a body, and stand their while people are swinging at them wait about 3 seconds there without attacking while they watch their energy bar aproach 10. that's usually when i use energy burn, but assuming they get it in, they get knocked down / interrupted 95% of the time. Then they continue to stand their motionless till they die 2 seconds later. I just find that funny. Anyone else notice this pattern?

I understand why people don't like to venture without a monk though. I myself play as a Me/W, meaning i'm at the front line with no armor. I also have no self heal. I don't understand why people need a tank, not even monsters will only attack the player closed to them, let alone the players in PvP. Each class seems to have a roll. Monks are supposed to keep people alive. Elementalists deal massive damage. Mesmers interrupt devestating spells or drain energy. They also can do some nasty damage in the domination line, as well as spells that mess people up in the illusion line. Necros are like the Elementalist against tanks. They do heavy DoT and AoE which isn't affected by armor. Rangers and warriors have similar roles, they both are responsible for staying alive and dealing moderate damage, very well rounded classes. Warriors also take damage for the team. Monks clearly hold the most important job. Warriors stay alive longer, making the need for a monk smaller. You can have no warrior or monk, it just becomes a bit more difficult, especially in longer battles. Elementalists are usually good friends of monks and warriors, because they can take care of large groups with AoE or monks with heavy damage. No one seems to appreciate the others that much.

I kind of like when no one can see what i'm doing. although i would like my teamtes to see the 5 -132's pop up when i cast shatter hex. :P Warriors obviously look like their doing something, monks heal you and your blue numbers pop up, elementalists make big explosions, rangers have traps and arrows, necros have wells, mesmers have... absolutely no visual cue, except maybe a purple cloud that disappers after half a second. No one knows that the reason their monk isn't healing them is that a mesmer off in the corner is draining the monk's energy. Mesmers are great! :D

brainer
27-05-2005, 17:23
I'm a Me/Ne lvl 19, and love the character.
When you are lower level, it's hard to stay alive, but once over 12 you are good to go. In PVE, i have my Domination and Illusion high up. As well as Necro Death.

What really makes me mad, is when I'm looking for a group to do a quest, or mission. I'm always sitting in the middle, and trying to get attention of people who want to quest. Lots of times, i'm not being invited to a group? Why? cuz they need tanks, and Monks.
So i do have hard time finding a team, but I stay and stay, until someone is good enough to invite me.

I did not try PVP with my class, but sure will have to, from what I read it's a damn annoying one.

Nobleman Azure
27-05-2005, 20:05
i think monk heal is too effective that no one wants to venture without one while its possible to venture without one of the other characters. Just look at Tombs, no group would leave without 2 monks or sometimes wont even leave without 3 monks.

ArnisArora
27-05-2005, 21:22
I think y'all would like how I make groups then...I say lfg and invite the first 5 people who respond. I usually end up with all casters and rangers...and I've never had a real problem. The main problems involve pesimists who log out in the middle of the mission b/c "we cannot possibly win", and getting hopelessly lost and having to start over.
Personally, I hate playing with warriors. They're generally pretty cocky b/c they're "always wanted" and die due to the cockiness (is that a word? well, it is now ;-) ). "I'm a w/mo, I can take out this group of 18 level 24s...really."
:love19:

Seeker of Something
27-05-2005, 22:41
It's a sure bet that the people whining that Thirsty River is "unbeatable" because they can't kill the healer boss had a gang of warriors and no mesmer. :)

ShaolinSamurai
28-05-2005, 00:06
i think monk heal is too effective that no one wants to venture without one while its possible to venture without one of the other characters. Just look at Tombs, no group would leave without 2 monks or sometimes wont even leave without 3 monks.
What's your char name again? I'll be sure not to heal you. The monk hate in this thread is ridiculous, I won't pretend to have read every thread but come on people. 6 main classes, monks and mesmers are the least popular to play, I think we can all agree on that. Look at the numbers hitting a warrior in underworld or something along those lines. Until someone learns to start feeding me energy so I can heal him alone, we need to have 2 monks. Clearly, monks are NOT 1/4 of the population so yes, we're needed. Another thing that would increase the mesmer (and ranger) love is giving warriors a taunt. That would put the need of the 1,532,243,262,252 warriors down to 1, MAYBE 2, in an 8 man group. I invite mesmers, I like mesmers. Sure, it may be because I'm a dirty man and I like the clothes th...nevermind, we won't go down that road. Point of my reply is that I don't see why people are saying anything bad about monks, we keep you alive. Some of you lowbies need to get to underworld/fissure or hell's precipice first before saying you can heal yourselves.

Nobleman Azure
28-05-2005, 07:08
What's your char name again? I'll be sure not to heal you. The monk hate in this thread is ridiculous, I won't pretend to have read every thread but come on people. 6 main classes, monks and mesmers are the least popular to play, I think we can all agree on that. Look at the numbers hitting a warrior in underworld or something along those lines. Until someone learns to start feeding me energy so I can heal him alone, we need to have 2 monks. Clearly, monks are NOT 1/4 of the population so yes, we're needed. Another thing that would increase the mesmer (and ranger) love is giving warriors a taunt. That would put the need of the 1,532,243,262,252 warriors down to 1, MAYBE 2, in an 8 man group. I invite mesmers, I like mesmers. Sure, it may be because I'm a dirty man and I like the clothes th...nevermind, we won't go down that road. Point of my reply is that I don't see why people are saying anything bad about monks, we keep you alive. Some of you lowbies need to get to underworld/fissure or hell's precipice first before saying you can heal yourselves.

I said monk heal is too effective because at some points game is depending on whos got the most monks wins (not to a ridiculous amount of course, ive seen a party once who was going with 5 monks and 2 war and 1 R)

I dont see how you got all offended with my post at what point of my posts did you decide and assume that i hate monks? Did you even read what i said on the post? I merely said "monks heal is too effective" what now? i suppose you'll blow up when i say a simple "damn monks"

i do NOT hate monks because if no one was there to heal my *** from lightning mages i wouldnt be there to do my job. My point is parties are able to venture without the help of a certain class and do just fine while if you venture into HoH without a monk you might as well just type /dance and wait for the inevitable end.

My in game name is Nobleman Azure, don't wanna heal me? Thats fine because i have monks in my guild who i can rely on healing me, and not losing his sanity over a few words uttered against his class.

By the way:

I'll be sure not to heal you.
this statement actually being an attempt of a threat proves my point even further.

Try "Ill be sure not to use traps" or "I'll be sure not to remove your hex and turn it into a damaging aura, or backfire that caster" for a threat and people will just /point and laugh

Warskullx
28-05-2005, 14:28
i think monk heal is too effective that no one wants to venture without one while its possible to venture without one of the other characters. Just look at Tombs, no group would leave without 2 monks or sometimes wont even leave without 3 monks.

It isn't just monk heal. Tombs is an 8v8 game, that is a lot of damage potential there. You need a good mix to be successful. A monk's ability to heal and reduce damage is valueable. Monks provide the long term endurance you need to survive in the Tombs. Sure in other PvP arenas you can do just fine without monks. However in those extended 8v8 battles (especially doing one battle after another or the three way battles) if you don't have a monk or two you will get worn down and broken. A good monk is fairly necessary in the tombs.

On this note though the 8v8 also adds a lot more room for a mesmer. In 4v4 you try to balance characters to cover all fronts and it can be more difficult to fit in a dedicated disrupter/disabler. In 8v8 you have plenty of room and including one is very smart. Having someone to disrupt rez and take healing hands off all those W/Mos is rather useful. A balanced team is far superior to a team of 4 W/Mos and 4 Mo.

Nobleman Azure
28-05-2005, 18:51
you guys still dont get the reason why i said monk heal is too effective.

The reason why i said it is because you can never have a party without them. COMPARED (not shouting, just emphasis) to other classes who can do well without say a ranger.

as for 4v4, hell, people are starting to walk about with 2 monks. While at times, if we have good anti caster support we win, its still getting increasingly annoying when these monks start healing each other over and over.

ShaolinSamurai
28-05-2005, 20:25
you guys still dont get the reason why i said monk heal is too effective.

The reason why i said it is because you can never have a party without them. COMPARED (not shouting, just emphasis) to other classes who can do well without say a ranger.

as for 4v4, hell, people are starting to walk about with 2 monks. While at times, if we have good anti caster support we win, its still getting increasingly annoying when these monks start healing each other over and over.

Of course people can get by without a ranger or whatever, theyre damage, theyre not the only one who can do that. Now if there was a shaman class or a druid class then monks wouldn't be so wanted. Until someone else gains a worthwhile heal though you're stuck with monks, like it or not.

Nobleman Azure
29-05-2005, 05:15
Of course people can get by without a ranger or whatever, theyre damage, theyre not the only one who can do that. Now if there was a shaman class or a druid class then monks wouldn't be so wanted. Until someone else gains a worthwhile heal though you're stuck with monks, like it or not.
-_-
Rangers aren't damage types. They do damage but their main plus is versatility. Conditions brought about by traps and other skills are what makes them great. People who measure a rangers prowess through their damage capabilities is taking it the wrong way.

and btw, your post header "Ha" what are you doing? Are you just trying to win the arguement for the sake of winning? If thats what you aim for then by all means, you're right I'm wrong, I will end it here now thank you.

Tarantio
30-05-2005, 06:36
I would be inclined to agree with you in so far as that monks have the ability to heal when they're not healing at all, through divine favour. I've only touched briefly on playing the class myself but I rarely adventure without one backing me up (I'm a war who doesn't like to tank at all) to keep me alive and I know a few of their tricks; a protection monk can heal almost as well as a healer in small parties in two ways, preventing damage being the first and the humble "reversal of fortune" being another. Due to casting times its only once every two or three attacks but you get the small heal from divine favour and then the next hit against you is not only negated (saving you the full damage of it, even if it was a hydra's meteor) but also healing you again as well, and at 5 energy its a bargain.
As for monks and warriors being "needed" in a group, I'm a war who takes monks constantly and occasionally I enjoy having another melee fighter to back me up but in pvp I see myself as more of a support role than a leader. Warriors take a lot of damage and can move fast, so they make good lures (when there isn't a ranger around to do it for us), they get skills to incapacitate any kind of enemy (in case there's a lack of mesmers and necros to do it ten times better than us), we deal a fair bit of damage (never as much as an ele but its respectable) and there are few better classes at rescuing a monk than a warrior with knockdown or cripple skills, but our necessity in a group is shaky at best. I love fighting with a mix of ele's, mesmers and necro's because the classes compliment each other very well, and I try my best to fit in as a support character than anything else. They aren't there to keep me alive, thats (part of) the monk's job, I'm there to make sure that they don't get overwhelmed by melee damage dealers and to deliver killing blows to the swarms that have had all their health stolen by AoE ele spells. Running ahead of groups is, I admit, a flaw seen all too often in warriors, and those "invincble" w/mo's that think they can do everything themselves annoy me as much as they must annoy casters. I'm still new to the game mostly, only having a couple of weeks with a w/mo under my belt (yes I know, but I had no idea there were so many of them around... I have toyed massively with deleting the char and starting anew but I've only just reached augury rock... >.<), but through forums and ranting I've hopefully managed to play as a party player. True, many people ignore an ele or monk shouting about their low energy, but just because one does it doesn't mean the whole lot of us have to be written off. I reckon every class has its -equal - place in the party, it's just a minority of players that haven't quite figured out where other people's place is relative to their own yet and do stupid things.
As for the importance of mesmers... from day one I have loved the idea of the class and though I have yet to *see* the effects of their spells on the battlefield, I love that this is the case; they're mesmers, masters of guile and deception. Warriors can moan about their uselessness til the cows come home, but when they have to face one they'd better be ready for one of the hardest fights of their life.

spiceses
30-05-2005, 20:04
sorry, long thread..quit after reading couple pages....

early on, you may be able to handle the mobs w/o any "tanks (W/Mo's IMHO is the best at tanking, nothing more), but later on, casters of any kind don't have the armor, dmg reduce, life to handle the tanking jobs. W/Mo is pretty much needed later in the game to just be a dmg sponge, while the higher dmg casters in the background pick 'em off.

..and a major reason i personally feel that W/Mo's are needed..they get the mobs bunched around them to make AoE spells much more effective. if it was all a group of casters running around trying not to get hit, AoE becomes very useless.

also, as an E/Me myself, i don't have any healing other than aura of restoration and perhaps ether feast..one or the other..and is not nearly enough for me if being focused fire on, so monks are definitely needed.

btw, the mesmer inspiration support skills are awesome for ele ;p

Kuramaroze
30-05-2005, 20:54
I'm a R/W and I have never...that's right never until this point had a warrior in my party, It was either a randomn collection of R/Mo or Rangers, Elementalists and Necromancers even mesmers at times and we've always pulled through. I'm not sure exactly why you would want warriors in your party...personally I think warriors are good in a relatively weak party (pure elementalists, monks or whatever) but it is very well possible to have an absolutely amazing party without Warriors. I have nothing against Warriors, but recently on the forums they seem to be getting a bad rap. In any case the dude in the original poster's party was honestly one of the more idiotic players in this game...I mean honestly...that was just a stupid way to act leaving like that. In any case there are good warriors out there but I really really don't think they're necessary as long as you have a well rounded party

You are a warrior :uhhuh:

Anyways, I've seen an elementalist tank in a party without a healer. Thats enough to convince me that warriors aren't needed much... And I am a warrior...