Attribute Requirements

[Torm Shadowbane]

Okay, I need some information on Attribute Requirements. You can use an item if you have less than the required amount (example: can use a shield that requires 10 Tactics even if you have 0 in tactics).

My question is this: What are the negative effects for shields by doing this? If a shield requires 10 tactics, you have zero, and it has 16 Armor Rating what is the real armor rating you receive from it? Would it just be better to use a focus item (for the extra energy) instead? Or would it be better to use a shield with a lower Armor Rating that requires a lower skill in Tactics so that you can receive more protection from it?

Also a question about weapons: Once you achieve the required level to use a weapon (say you use a sword that requires 10 in Swordsmanship) you receive max damage from the weapon. What is the benefit of spending more points in Swordsmanship if the damage doesn't increase aside from a few skills?

[Draegos]

Once you achieve the required level to use a weapon (say you use a sword that requires 10 in Swordsmanship) you receive max damage from the weapon.

I don't think that is an accurate statement because if it was, then a sword with no requirement would always do max damage for anyone....which they don't.

I think that the higher your attribute the more consistently you will be in the upper range of the damage spectrum. This gives a reason to continue adding attribute points to it.

[Torm Shadowbane]

Well I know there is a penalty for not having the required level in the attribute, and it's a damage reduction. I know that because when I was about level 12 or so I used a sword two levels above my current level in swordsmanship. However, once I hit the required level I noticed a very NOTICEABLE increase in damage. (Consistently hitting for near or at max damage.)

I tend to hit near or at max damage on mobs that are at or around my level, but when I fight low level monsters (Charr for example) I can hit for nearly double damage -- all the way up to 60 damage. Per swing.

I am just wondering if there is a benefit to weapon damage if you have a higher level in swordsmanship than is required. If not, and you don't use many swordsmanship skills, would it not be better to get the required level and then work on whatever skills you use for your secondary?

Although my main concern here is shields. I want to know if you don't have enough points in either strength or tactics (depending on the shield) if it is even worth having one. My guess is probably not.

[Draegos]

Well I know there is a penalty for not having the required level in the attribute, and it's a damage reduction. I know that because when I was about level 12 or so I used a sword two levels above my current level in swordsmanship. However, once I hit the required level I noticed a very NOTICEABLE increase in damage. (Consistently hitting for near or at max damage.)

I tend to hit near or at max damage on mobs that are at or around my level, but when I fight low level monsters (Charr for example) I can hit for nearly double damage -- all the way up to 60 damage. Per swing.

I am just wondering if there is a benefit to weapon damage if you have a higher level in swordsmanship than is required. If not, and you don't use many swordsmanship skills, would it not be better to get the required level and then work on whatever skills you use for your secondary?

Although my main concern here is shields. I want to know if you don't have enough points in either strength or tactics (depending on the shield) if it is even worth having one. My guess is probably not.

I'm not sure on the shields but I can think of an easy way to test it.

Get a low requirement shield and try it on the same mob with and without the requirement.

Actually, I have one I can test this on since i only meet the requirement by wearing a +1 Tactics helm. I'll test it with and without tonight.

[Axehilt]

Well here's the damage formula... (snipped from another post)

Complex Damage Formula:

Spells and spell weapons
damage = (base damage)*2^([3*Clvl - Effective_Armor]/40)

Non spell weapons
damage = (enhanced damage percentage)*(base_damage_mod + base damage)*2^({[71/15]*Weapon_attr - Effective_Armor}/40) + Extra_damage

I assume his variables mean:
Weapon_attr = Your weapon Attribute (Axe mastery, etc)
Effective Armor = The total armor of the location you're striking

---

Knowing how damage is calculated is only the first part of the puzzle though. The question you're asking, which I'd also like answered, is how much of a damage/armor penalty you receive for not meeting a weapon/shield's requirements.

If I were to guess, I'd assume it's probably a flat modifier. Something like -50% damage/armor if you don't meet the requirements. That's just random guessing though and I'd definitely love to hear some hard facts about what the actual penalty is.

[Torm Shadowbane]

Wouldn't it be funny if everyone who has been using that nice, wonderful shield suddenly find out that it is really the equivalent to a piece of cardboard? :p

That would really make the Hammer users happy, I'd guess. ;)

Personally, I always used the best shield I picked up regardless of the requirement. I knew there was probably a penalty some where, most likely to the protection it provides, but I could never figure out where. So I've been switching between my shield and a focus item lately for the extra energy. I really haven't noticed an increase or decrease in damage taken.

[Tarantio]

Also a question about weapons: Once you achieve the required level to use a weapon (say you use a sword that requires 10 in Swordsmanship) you receive max damage from the weapon. What is the benefit of spending more points in Swordsmanship if the damage doesn't increase aside from a few skills?

uh, I think you're confusing yourself here. Damage listed in skills as, for example, 10-32 is dependant on your attribute level for an exact amount (the base_damage_mos in the formula, most of the time), but the numbers on the weapon itself are a random number, GW's version of a dice roll. With a high hammer skill and a 16-24 hammer, you don't always hit for 24 base damage, you hit for 16-24 damage with a percentage modifier based off your attribute level (the percentage modifier in the damage formula). Otherwise axes would be a *little* overpowered... (although from what I hear they already may be ;)) Still, maskes for a good reason to have a hammer, what with their damage minimums often being higher than a sword's maximum.