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View Full Version : Why doesn't anyone use Healing Seed?



RotJ
22-05-2005, 01:27
In my opinion, healing seed is one of the most useful skills a monk has, but I've yet to encounter another monk that uses it (or at least announces that he's using it so other people will know).

Even against lvl 20+ monsters, healing seed tends to at least keep a person's hp even against physical attacks. Against low dmg mobs that rely on quantity over quality, it actually boosts hp when a person takes a hit. But of course, the person you cast it on isn't the primary beneficiary of it. It's the other members of the group who are smart enough to stand next to him. If used right, the spell is basically Heal Party at +25 hp, one to 3 times per second, for 18 seconds. But even when I announce that I'm using it on someone, and then announce that I'm following the person I cast it on, few people seem to notice. Especially annoying are the casters who decide to run away from battle as soon as I use the spell on them, which causes the enemies to target someone else, which means I've wasted 15 energy for no effect. These people don't ever seem to notice, "hey, I'm being pounded by 4 hits every second, (but I'm not losing any/but I'm gaining) health".

Diak
22-05-2005, 02:07
A good idea is to announce in advance of venturing out what spell you will use that everyone needs to keep a lookout for. Make sure at least the tanks know what the spell does so that they take full advantage of it.
In all respects I see the cause of your dissapointment, I had a lot of trouble using Divine Healing right, but once the peeps get a hint at what it can do when everyone is on half HP's they start moving in a tight group =)
Use of those monk skills which need highly coordinated teamwork to utilize is even more crucial in pvp. Bottomline is to make sure that most people know about what you use, or even coordinate with another monk to use Seed on eachother atm one of you starts to get pounced on.

Enigo Montoya
22-05-2005, 03:07
Unfortunately there are alot of noobs out there that don't do their research. Personally I like to look up all str's and weakness of all classes, that way when I party I know where they stand and I stand.

I find it annoying to try and keep a damn necro alive when I could be more mana efficient with my heals healing the tank.

Necro's need to learn the meaning of AGRO MANAGEMENT!!!!!!

If you do more damage to a creature then the tank does...It's coming after you.

I see noob necro's out there casting immediately on the targets before the main tank can gain some agro on it.

And they they start *****ing at me because they died.


Not to mention the groups I have been in everyone is wandering all over the damn place and not staying in a tight group and they wonder why we wipe out so many times when we are fighting 10 mobs when we should only be fighting 3 or 4.

Grouping with people is really beginning to get extremely frustrating.

If any high levels that are tired of this as well and you need a good healing monk for their groups feel free to message me in game. Eniigo Montoya

He Hate Me
22-05-2005, 03:36
i i used healing seed alot lvl'ing up. not so much now as the few places i still hunt alot of the mobs use shatter enchantment and its not worth casting, but it is a killer spell alot of the time.
another reason may be, 90%of the groups im in, the same guy doesnt take agro its alwaqsy switching betweed this uber leader guy, and that uber co leader guy, and the ele-tank jumpstart. but if your in a good group its definatly a very useful spell.

RotJ
22-05-2005, 03:58
i i used healing seed alot lvl'ing up. not so much now as the few places i still hunt alot of the mobs use shatter enchantment and its not worth casting, but it is a killer spell alot of the time.
another reason may be, 90%of the groups im in, the same guy doesnt take agro its alwaqsy switching betweed this uber leader guy, and that uber co leader guy, and the ele-tank jumpstart. but if your in a good group its definatly a very useful spell.
I've noticed they generally only target 2 people in any group 80% of the time (unless one of those people decide to bail out of battle). I wait until someone starts taking damage anyway. I'm a warrior/monk, so I don't get Divine Favor bonus.

Also, I've told people about Healing Seed plenty of times at the beginning of a mission, but it doesn't have much effect. Kind of like telling people everything will be much easier if you press "T" when someone calls a target. Few people listen. If only people can realize that mob of 4 enemies with 25% health each does more damage than a mob of 3 ememies at 100%.

Another underused skill, at least for backup healer warrior/monks, is infuse health. Nobody seems willing to give up their own health to keep a party member alive. Likewise, a group's more effective with 6 people and one person at 50% health than it is with 5 people at full health.

Cantos
22-05-2005, 04:24
I use Healing Seed and I call it always. I really try not to cast it on anything other than warriors though, unless there is another Monk in PvP that is getting hammered. Then it really takes the edge off.

I really dont think it's a good idea for the casters to run off to point blank range just because the W/Mo up front got Seeded though. If it heals 1-3 Warriors at once it is good enough.

Feynt
22-05-2005, 11:58
The only time I don't use Healing Seed is when I'm bringing along a Signet of Capture. It's just that useful. May your digits shrivel and fall off on your keyboard if you disagree! O.O

Ante Gotovina
22-05-2005, 13:15
Healing seed is one of my 8 primary skills, but using it depends on the situation and the group I'm in. Its great in a well organized group that sticks together... but when those tanks rush in different directions, mages run around running from hydras and enchanted swords... healing seed wont do you any good and you just cant afford those 15 EP just to marginaly fix one faraway tank... its a hard monks life for us...

lithun
22-05-2005, 21:09
Hmm, I haven't used healing seed mainly because of that big 15 energy cost and the fact that most teams don't stay all bunched up in battles. That 15 energy is worth 3 word of healing. I could see Healing seeds use if you only team with certain people but for pick up teams, it doesn't seem worth the energy.

Knight Artorius
22-05-2005, 21:39
Can you cast healing seed on yourself? just a question cause in the description it says cast on "other ally" not just cast on "ally"

Feynt
23-05-2005, 00:31
No, you can't use Healing Seed on yourself. If you want that sort of spell effect you'll have to get Healing Hands (which doesn't heal the area around you and is elite, thus robbing you of Word of Healing).

You'll find parties "stick together" more if you tell them how Healing Seed works. Explaining how Ward Against Melee works made sure that the casters in my group hugged me during combat with enchanted swords.

Vitamins
23-05-2005, 04:34
It's a nice spell... I just don't like all the conditions that have to be in place for it to work to its fullest potential.

Don't bother getting angry at spellcasters for running away. Just cast heal other on them and let them be happy. Otherwise you'll have to explain to everyone how healing seed works. Even then they will have to trust that you have enough energy to cast it on them if they start to get hit and that it will heal them the same way it would heal a warrior. Also mages have less armour so they will take more dmg. Making 25 hp heal less effective then it would be on a warrior.

If you really want to use it why not just cast it on the warrior before the battle starts? It lasts 18 seconds at 12 healing.

Axehilt
23-05-2005, 05:02
Necro's need to learn the meaning of AGRO MANAGEMENT!!!!!!

If you do more damage to a creature then the tank does...It's coming after you.

I see noob necro's out there casting immediately on the targets before the main tank can gain some agro on it.

And they they start *****ing at me because they died.


It's been my impression that aggro doesn't work quite like that. If you initiate the encounter through damage or aggro radius, then yes something will come after you. But damage alone won't tend to grab aggro - otherwise I'd get aggro a lot more frequently while playing my Elementalist.

Oh, and more on topic - Healing Seed really is a quality spell, though it's an expensive one. One of the Preset builds uses it.

Agonotheta
24-05-2005, 00:46
It's usually most useful with the henchmen. They tend to stay clumped and it's easy for you to run over and partake in the health bonus. Otherwise, unless you're with a smart and well-coordinated team, it's not worth it. I keep the spell, but it's just one of those that are perfect--under the right circumstances.

Corrodias
24-05-2005, 07:59
word of healing and healing seed can only be cast on other allies, if i'm not mistaken. that's why i don't like to rely on that combo. if enemies decide to focus on me, i don't want to die in 5 seconds before the rest of the team gets a chance to remove them. i need to be able to cast healing hands on myself, so i bring that. does anyone have a solution, something better to protect yourself with that is also useful to the rest of the group?

at the moment, i also bring healing seed in case things get too thick on another party member. healing hands + healing seed + life bond means they aint taking much damage. :)

Cantos
24-05-2005, 14:06
word of healing and healing seed can only be cast on other allies, if i'm not mistaken. that's why i don't like to rely on that combo. if enemies decide to focus on me, i don't want to die in 5 seconds before the rest of the team gets a chance to remove them. i need to be able to cast healing hands on myself, so i bring that. does anyone have a solution, something better to protect yourself with that is also useful to the rest of the group?

at the moment, i also bring healing seed in case things get too thick on another party member. healing hands + healing seed + life bond means they aint taking much damage. :)

I use my secondary profession atrribute, the Elementalist Earth magic for most of my defense. Orison and Healing Breeze are good to keep me alive sure, but Armor of Earth and Ward Against Melee/Elements are amazing for self-survival.

prosbloom
26-05-2005, 02:01
Healing seed is a vital part of my pvp healing monks lineup. Its great for when the other team is ganging on one of your guys.

lithun
29-05-2005, 09:32
I use my secondary profession atrribute, the Elementalist Earth magic for most of my defense. Orison and Healing Breeze are good to keep me alive sure, but Armor of Earth and Ward Against Melee/Elements are amazing for self-survival.

How many attribute points would I have to dedicate in order to get any use out of the two spells you mentioned?

.........

Hmm, I just looked them up. Both Armor of Earth and Ward against melee/elements all cost 10 energy, kind of alot of energy for a primary monk...

Cantos
29-05-2005, 11:12
Yes, 10 energy is a lot sometimes. I wouldnt use a (spammable) heal if it cost 10, but those two are worth it, and you only need them every 20 or 30 seconds. I reckon you could go to 7 or so and still get a solid defense out of them.

Feynt
29-05-2005, 12:46
At around 8 Earth you get 40 extra armour with a modest 26% (give or take a few percent) walking speed reduction. Since you wouldn't be moving much anyways, running from a warrior in PvP is pointless with Sprint and Hamstring/Axe Rake at their disposal, that's fine. Suddenly you're warrior class armour (or actually slightly better) and take single digit damage instead of double digit. Also with around 8 Earth Ward Against Melee will last 13-14 seconds, that's plenty of time for a friendly warrior to assist you, or for someone else to offer relief (allied mesmers for instance can make a warrior sorry he decided to pick on casters, especially when he doesn't have to worry about half of the warrior's attacks).

Really though, having access to a longish lasting Ward Against Melee will have you casting it fairly often during a PvP match. It does a grand job of shutting down enemy warriors (PvP or PvM) and stacks nicely with Spirit or Price of Failure (so you get a decent energy income from them missing, or deal a decent amount of damage from them missing).

lred
30-05-2005, 00:15
Healing seed is a vital part of my pvp healing monks lineup. Its great for when the other team is ganging on one of your guys.

I'd think if one is being ganged up on, the others won't need much healing.
In that case essence bond will give me all the energy i need to cast some protection spells and heal as needed.

If the rest of the team is also taking damage i could use heal party, which heals for more then seed and isn't local.

The downside i find is that using essence bond requires a lot of management, which can get quite tricky in problematic situations.

Corrodias
30-05-2005, 05:32
i played a little pvp and soon realized i had to focus primarily on protecting myself and healing other people only as a hobby in my free time between waves of warriors coming at me. :P

so i switched to /E and got armor of earth. that'll help a lot against warriors (melee), rangers (projectiles), and elementalists (spells). the problem is i simply can't decide what else to bring!

i've already got: healing touch, heal other, orison of healing, healing breeze, armor of earth, res signet

for the other two, i keep trying to figure out the right combination. i only want to focus on up to FOUR attributes at once, no more. i have Healing Prayers, Divine Favor, and Earth Magic up already, and i'm not sure what to do with the last few points. they could go in Earth Magic, Water Magic, or Protection Prayers. here are some of my options.

all variable numbers are assuming the amount of attribute points i'm willing to put into the associated attribute.

Healing Prayers

healing hands is elite. it works great against warriors and rangers, but doesn't help against spells. it lasts 10 seconds and then has 15 seconds until it can be cast again.

Earth Magic

ward against elements protects the area against elementalists, but doesn't do jack against warriors or rangers.

ward against melee pwns against warriors, but does nothing about elementalists and rangers.

obsidian flesh (i don't have it yet) is elite. it protects a little against warriors and rangers (+20 armor) and protects a lot against spells (they cannot target me) including against mesmers! omg! being elite, it cannot be used with Healing Hands or Mist Form, though.

Water Magic

mist form is elite. it's perfect against warriors and rangers, but doesn't do anything about elementalists. it lasts 15 seconds and then has 15 seconds until it can be recast. it takes 10 energy rather than Healing Hands' 5, and cannot be cast on other people, but it is more effective on yourself than HH.

armor of mist increases my armor so it's effective against all three. however, its effect isn't quite as strong as i'd like (only 30 armor). it lasts 15 seconds and then has 15 seconds until it can be cast again.

Protection Prayers

aegis makes all party members block attacks (warriors and rangers) half the time. it costs 15 energy, lasts 9 seconds, and takes 21 seconds to recharge after that. it sucks for self protection.

guardian makes the target block attacks (warriors and rangers) 40% of the time. it costs 5 energy and lasts only 5 seconds. yuck.

mark of protection is elite. it reduces the damage you take by ~40 and heals you by 40 every time you take damage (from what i understand). it would therefore be effective against warriors, rangers, and elementalists. however, it takes 15 energy, only lasts 10 seconds, and takes another 35 seconds after that to recharge, so you'd need TWO other skills to protect you, leaving you back in the same situation as you were in before anyway. it can be cast on other people, at least.

protective bond.. it's a maintained enchantment, and limits you to taking ~23 damage from a single effect. against rangers, that means the arrow can hit you for 23, the explosion can hit you for 23, the OTHER arrow (dual shot) can hit you for 23, and the second explosion can hit you for 23, all at the same time (i've seen it happen). not actually as useful as it sounds, is it? it works mainly against big one-shot elementalist spells like Chain Lightning.

reversal of fortune acts like mark of protection for a SINGLE HIT. it costs 5 energy just for that one hit. that really isn't a solution to my problem.

shield of deflection is elite. it takes 15 energy but can be cast as soon as it runs out. for about 8-9 seconds (NOT long enough to recharge 15 energy), it gives you ~19 armor (a bit of a help against elementalists) and gives you about a 65% chance to evade warriors and rangers. the main problem here is the energy cost. you can't keep using this thing forever.

shield of regeneration is elite. for 8-9 seconds, you gain 40 armor (useful!) and about 8 health regen (useful!). it takes 15 energy and has about 12 seconds until it can be cast again. this is nice. the energy cost is not as much of an issue because of the health regen provided (you'd be casting less healing spells at the same time), but because of the recharge gap, you still need another skill in there!

shielding hands reduces the damage you take by about 13. it takes only 5 energy and is useful against all three attackers, lasts 10 seconds, and requires another 15 to recharge, so you'd need another skill to go with it. it's like a half-as-good Healing Hands, but isn't elite.

So there you go.

what should i do? Armor of Earth plus two other skills? i'm currently running with Healing Hands and Armor of Mist.

i could instead try Shield of Regeneration and Shielding Hands, but SR takes a lot of energy and SH is a little weak. that's the only reason i don't like this combo. still, with the free regen, maybe i should try it. (i'd take protection instead of water for this)

i could use Mist Form with another water or earth skill, like Armor of Mist. i can't use Mist Form on another person, but i think it would still be better. of course, at the momenst, MF is bugged, but once it's fixed, it might be a better combo than HH + AoM.

Torm Shadowbane
30-05-2005, 09:51
I ALWAYS take Healing Seed with me when I use my PvP Character for Tombs (and I imagine it'd be just as useful in GvG as well). I cast it on our Hero when we claim the altar, or our Priest if our shrine is under attack. Add Healing Seed and Healing Breeze together, I can practically forget about them and focus more on the party. It works best when we claim altars because the group is generally (the casters and ranged fighters mostly) bunched together around the Hero and it is normally the Hero who is getting assaulted.

For my PvE Monk I see Healing Seed just as useful but as others have said... the conditions are sometimes hard to meet. I would most likely drop that spell for something that may be more useful depending on the situation, unless I had two or three warriors grouped with me. If they are focus firing then they will be together. It is also likely that they both will be taking damage unless we are fighting a single mob. Just healing seed the main tank and you'll get your 15 energy's worth.

hireath
30-05-2005, 14:33
healing seed is very nice.

its most useful your team has been hit by AoE damage, because the healing seed will provide all the healing they need.

the only problem is that it is tricky to pick the right target to use it on, and once people realise he has healing seed on, they will change target or shatter pretty fast. of course, this still means it has the required effect, of keeping someone alive for a little longer.

healing hands is good also, but basically a weak seed which you can cast on yourself.

can anyone confirm exactly what damage types trigger healing seed? healing hands is just attack, but healing seed says all damage i believe, does this mean firestorm etc. too?

Corrodias
30-05-2005, 14:56
hm, youre right, Healing Seed triggers whenever he 'takes damage', which i believe means any time he's hit by something that isn't a DoT. of course i love healing seed, but the problem is that in PvP, if i find myself as the target, i can't use it to help myself in any way. i could drop Healing Touch for it, but...

then again, Healing Hands only helps against attacks, not spells, so it's not an ideal defense either. :) frankly, i'm surprised Armor of Earth isn't elite itself.

hireath
30-05-2005, 17:10
hm, youre right, Healing Seed triggers whenever he 'takes damage', which i believe means any time he's hit by something that isn't a DoT. of course i love healing seed, but the problem is that in PvP, if i find myself as the target, i can't use it to help myself in any way. i could drop Healing Touch for it, but...

then again, Healing Hands only helps against attacks, not spells, so it's not an ideal defense either. :) frankly, i'm surprised Armor of Earth isn't elite itself.

get another healing monk in your group with seed :)

everyone spam seed on everyone, then stand in a little circle inside wards = pwnage LOL

Seeker of Something
30-05-2005, 21:37
I love Healing Seed in PvE, to the point where I take Glyph of Lesser Energy to power it and a staff of enchanting to keep it up a bit longer. Ward Against Melee is also fabulous in PvE, since the melee mobs are stupid enough to stay in it while you take out their caster support and they aren't likely to drop a Meteor Shower on you.

Feynt
30-05-2005, 22:25
You know Corrodias, Guardian and Reversal of Fortune are suppose to be used with a very high Divine Favour so when you cast it all spam like it heals as well as offering protection. A Reversal of Fortune can be even more effective than an Orison of Healing because you're stopping damage AND healing at once. Doesn't help versus negative HPR, but that's what Mend Ailment is for.