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Zefiris
23-05-2005, 05:28
Ok ok.. I want to make a Mesmer that can really tick off people using Fantasm, Empathy, Imagined Burden, BAckfire, etc.. but I want to distribute my attribute points smth like this: 12 Illusion/Domination, 10 Inspiration, and 8 Fast Casting. I need help on deciding which to put 12 in.. plz help

Nobleman Azure
23-05-2005, 09:29
well think of it based on this:

Domination is more leaned to power and control than dillemma and gameplay manipulation while Illusion is the opposite.

If you mean you want to "mess" with people as in giving them equally bad options during battle, (as in dillemma) illusion is your attribute.

IMMORTAlMITCH
24-05-2005, 01:53
well think of it based on this:

Domination is more leaned to power and control than dillemma and gameplay manipulation while Illusion is the opposite.

If you mean you want to "mess" with people as in giving them equally bad options during battle, (as in dillemma) illusion is your attribute.

Hm? I think Domination magic is more leaned towards dilemmas, as in: you're backfired, you can cast a spell and take damage or sit still and wait for backfire to wear off (same goes for empathy etc.)

Nobleman Azure
24-05-2005, 03:50
Hm? I think Domination magic is more leaned towards dilemmas, as in: you're backfired, you can cast a spell and take damage or sit still and wait for backfire to wear off (same goes for empathy etc.)

true, there are dillemma in both the attributes. what sets the two apart is the manipulation or control. Domination can control foes better than illusion and illusion can manipulate you or your opponent such as slowing targets down, speeding you up, give you a backup supply of HP, etc.

Both are pretty similar its all about how you like messing with the enemy. (most go with domination BTW because illusion is loaded with elites and you cant use more than one per skill set)

Herthbul
24-05-2005, 06:38
Lemme sum this up in terms of realistic situations. Domination is your anti-caster line, Illusion is your anti-physical line (with a touch of anti-caster elites). Pick which one you rather do and choose that line.

Nern
24-05-2005, 08:06
illusion isnt anti melee and dom isnt anti caster
they both have some of both and different things
the one thing i know for sure is that if you want to do the max damage you can go domination, with empathy, energy burn, energy surge, backfire, everyone will be dying!!1 :happy14:

Tarew
24-05-2005, 11:14
illusion isnt anti melee and dom isnt anti caster
they both have some of both and different things
the one thing i know for sure is that if you want to do the max damage you can go domination, with empathy, energy burn, energy surge, backfire, everyone will be dying!!1 :happy14:

This post is almost completely untrue so I feel somewhat obligated to correct it. Herthbul was right, in general Illusion is your anti-caster line and Illusion is your anti-warrior line.
The only anti-attack skill in Domination Magic is Empathy (which becomes steadily less useful as you progress in the game) and the only anti-caster skills in Illusion are Migraine and Arcane Conundrum. The rest is all leaned towards countering either casters for domination or warriors for illusion
and that's also how they should be used.

To that end I would probably recommend a combination of both and use a 11 Illusion, 10 Domination and 10 Inspiration setup (if you only use one of the 2 your mesmer will be more specialized in dealing with either warriors or casters but not nearly as good against the other).
However if you really want to focus on one of the 2, ILLUSION is the one you want to take for the most damage in general.
The damage gets done over time but in the end it far surpasses the damage you get from domination magic (with the possible exception of Backfire) especially if you also use Mantra of Persistance with it.
With it, a single cast of Conjure Phantasm can last around 20 seconds which ultimately means 200 life lost with a single casting.
Sure you have to be patient and defend yourself while the damage takes effect but in the end you get much more damage for your energy.
If you want to do a decent amount of damage at once Domination is obviously the way to go but that should (hopefully) be fairly obvious.

jesterbot
27-05-2005, 22:50
The problem with many DoT (damage over time) builds is they are pretty easily countered by team monks. They can be dehexed, purged, etc - and they have plenty of warning to do so (the colors changing on the health bar as they slowly deteriorate). The fast, high-damage attacks of Domination tends to take out targets before they can react, or the monks can heal them.

For example - shattering hex on your mobbed monk deals ~140 dmg to all nearby targets. Power spiking a res spell to deal ~100 dmg... backfiring with ~140+ per hit, etc... the list goes on. A particularly fun one could be echo (real echo) with shatter hex - ~300 dmg in only a couple secs to whoever is around your target(s). That's tough for any healer to keep up with. And as much as people bash Empathy - i've killed plenty people using it - or shut them down so they cant attack for awhile (equally useful).

Irving
29-05-2005, 00:57
just thought id ask this, not entirely off topic, what does archance echo and echo actually do, i read the description about replacing a skill with echo for 20 seconds or whatever, and i dont see how that is useful at all, so im obviously way off track here.... help!

Feynt
29-05-2005, 01:13
Ok, say you come across a team of enemies with two casters, we'll say one's a healer and one's an elementalist (that's a fairly common setup). Arcane Echo, Backfire the healer, then Arcane Echo becomes Backfire so you have a second copy to cast on the elementalist.

Now stretching from the realm of mesmer skills, you're an E/Me or Me/E. Arcane Echo, Meteor Storm, Arcane Echo becomes a second copy of Meteor Storm for you to cast on either another group (enemies move around as your friends freak out and run because of damage) or the same group (an almost sure kill for quite a while). Or Arcane Echo and Lightning Strike, thus you can keep casting it once every two seconds (roughly).

Arcane Echo and Animate Bone Minions. Arcane Echo and Power Spike. Arcane Echo and Vengence. Arcane Echo and Healing Seed. Arcane Echo and Word of Healing(!). Arcane Echo and... Well, you get the picture.

Nobleman Azure
29-05-2005, 06:06
just thought id ask this, not entirely off topic, what does archance echo and echo actually do, i read the description about replacing a skill with echo for 20 seconds or whatever, and i dont see how that is useful at all, so im obviously way off track here.... help!

its for recasting. Just like the above poster said, its mainly to be able to use a skill twice in a row and/or to be able to spam a skill in a much more rapid rate.

Irving
30-05-2005, 16:29
ok that sounds really useful then, thanks for helping me to clear that up

any chance you could tell me whether mantra of recovery actually works on itself, i.e. lowers its own recharge time down to 15s? i seriously doubt it does, but you never know

Gwyndion
30-05-2005, 19:14
I think it does, since aura of restoration also heals yourself...

Feynt
30-05-2005, 20:57
Aura of Restoration works if you recast it during it's active period. Mantra of Recovery shouldn't affect itself because it will have finished casting before it's effects come into play, just like Aura of Restoration doesn't give you health when you first cast it.

Gwyndion
30-05-2005, 22:15
Oh ok, ashame, would be cool though...

Feynt
30-05-2005, 22:17
Well this is a theory based off of three other spells (Air Attunement, Earth Attunement, and Aura of Restoration, all of which do not apply their effects on themselves when you cast them, but apply to all spells after they've been cast). It's reasonable to assume that Mantra of Recovery works the same way. Of course I could be wrong, it's happened before.

Nobleman Azure
31-05-2005, 04:16
nope, youre not wrong, what you said is right, mantra of recovery does not affect itself (aside from if you use another mantra recover from arcane echo or echo skill)

Jijimuge
31-05-2005, 13:40
And even then, it's a stance and as it only speeds up the recovery of spells, it cannot work on itself.

This also means that Arcane Echo couldn't duplicate it. For that, you'd need Echo (as that works on all skills), but as that's also elite, you'd need to pull some pretty fancy footwork to get your Mantra echoed.

Irving
31-05-2005, 16:05
damn so your never gonna get 50% less recovery time for more than 17 seconds then.... hmm not sure if its worth it

Gwyndion
31-05-2005, 17:50
I think you can do it non stop if you use...i think its called arcane echo or so, it only works for spells, but it isn't elite, so aracane echo, mantra of recovery, and since it was used while the last was used, i think the last one is affected by the effect of the last one...tell me if i'm wrong please

Herthbul
31-05-2005, 18:12
Mantra of Recovery is a stance, not a spell, so it's not going to work with Arcane Echo.

Gwyndion
31-05-2005, 18:29
Damn, thats a pity....twould have been cool if it was affected by it, why oh why cant they have some good spells connected to fast casting, since I doubt its really worth the skill points....unless your more of an interrupt then a^punisher like me

Irving
31-05-2005, 18:40
ok so new question now

is it possbile to use two mantras at once, Im liking the look of mantra of persistance and recovery but I dont know whether thats possible?

minetryk
02-06-2005, 20:37
My answer to the original question of the thread.

Domination.

you dont need to have any points in illusion to effectively use arcane echo. even with a "0," you have 10 seconds to choose your next spell. And that spell is the best of illusion.

Domination has blackout.

If domination is up to 11 or 12, you target has no use of any skill for 6 seconds and you for 5. In PvP, when your buddies focus fire, it will be your job to blackout the helping monk or whoever. Or maybe you'll backfire one helper first, then blackout (domination) another , as your team focuses on the real threat.

trying using blackout and arcane echo together. If it's really successfull, remember I said it first.

arcane echo
blackout
arcane echo/blackout
blackout.

thats 18 seconds without any help from a primary healer, or 18 seconds that their air elementalist isn't doing anything.

can it be interrupted? yeah, but not if you leave out arcane echo and just use mantra on concentration and then blackout.

Zefiris
13-06-2005, 03:45
Thankz a lot for these tips guyz. (for the last guy) When you use Blackout, it cancels out all your spells, so the blackout you used with Arcane Echo should be blacked out too. I don't know how that works, unless Black out contradicts itself or something.. anyway, Thankz lot. I'm still hoping for more suggestions. ^^

Jijimuge
18-06-2005, 21:26
To Zefiris: Yes, you're quite right about the arcane echoed blackout - it is blacked out too, but as it remains in your skillbar for 20 seconds (as per arcane echo) the skill is still there for you to cast a second blackout when the first one ends. You can then continue after that with your original blackout.


To Irving: No, all mantras (IIRC) are classed as stances, and one can never have more than one stance active at any one time. Activating mantra of persistence will cancel mantra of recovery and vice versa.

Feynt
18-06-2005, 22:03
Well the Mantra of Recall is an enchantment, but it too is an elite.

ultimastrike
18-06-2005, 22:10
To Zefiris: Yes, you're quite right about the arcane echoed blackout - it is blacked out too, but as it remains in your skillbar for 20 seconds (as per arcane echo) the skill is still there for you to cast a second blackout when the first one ends. You can then continue after that with your original blackout.


To Irving: No, all mantras (IIRC) are classed as stances, and one can never have more than one stance active at any one time. Activating mantra of persistence will cancel mantra of recovery and vice versa.

When I tried this, arcane echo didn't echo blackout. it just went through 20 seconds of recharge.

Feynt
18-06-2005, 22:16
Probably because Blackout is a skill and not a spell. You'd need Echo in that case. It's an easy thing to miss.

ultimastrike
18-06-2005, 22:21
Then the dude up there with the 18 second blackout is just bsing :P

Jijimuge
19-06-2005, 13:01
Ooh, thanks for that Feynt. - I hadn't noticed that. That's interesting about blackout...means I can use it through backfire et al. hmmmm.....

Well, the principle of the echoed blackout may work. As Feynt pointed out, arcane echo won't work as blackout is not a spell, but echo should, so the guy posting about an 18 second blackout may have the principle, if not the details, correct. Just use echo instead of arcane echo and give it a whirl.