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Stryker Stormeye
26-05-2005, 21:49
After an hour and a half of playing, I finally made it to the Hall of Heros with a solidly built group... only to get screwed over by a group made up of 6 Air elementalists (Getting hit by 6 chain lightning shots at once = insta-kill) and 2 monks. We lost to them not even two minutes into the game.

Does anybody know of a way to counter that kind of team build?

Zero
26-05-2005, 21:58
Concentrated builds liek that you really need to come readily prepared. The only problem with this is you can become weaker due to it. I don't like builds liek this. As people know i consider them "cheap" as they don't take too much skill jsut one target caller and everyone to cast....
However there's a nice ranger combo vs this:

Greater conflagration
Winter

This makes All damage cold damage. Load the team up on cold resistance armour and your pretty sorted. You could even go the next step and have a team of ?/Me and carry the cold resistance mantra.

UndeadBehlial
26-05-2005, 22:54
This team is easily beatable. A ranger heavy team (say 4+ rangers) would tear thru this one. Focus firing Debilitating shot, interrupts and some power hits, coupled with Ranger armor that is inherently elemental resistant is good. A step further would be what Zero suggested - take along winter to make all that ele damage Cold damage, then pack on the Cold resist ranger armor.

Piece o cake. Ranger heavy teams always rock :D

Xircon
26-05-2005, 23:19
This team is easily beatable. A ranger heavy team (say 4+ rangers) would tear thru this one. Focus firing Debilitating shot, interrupts and some power hits, coupled with Ranger armor that is inherently elemental resistant is good. A step further would be what Zero suggested - take along winter to make all that ele damage Cold damage, then pack on the Cold resist ranger armor.

Piece o cake. Ranger heavy teams always rock :D
Ward against elements would slow them down as well. Because the exaustation from chain lightning, you only have to hold them off for a few before they really have no energy left.

Kirsty
27-05-2005, 01:54
Air elementalists don't run out of energy actually since they have 2 autohit skills (enervating charge and lightning strike) and two additional spamming skills (lightning javelin and lightning orb). Coupled with air attunement they can only be slowed down by enchantment removal, energy removal, daze and the like.
I really can't think of a workable solution besides a ranger and /me team or some other mass protection team (like setting up two tanks with continuously working spell breaker spells on them or with high defense vs elemental bonuses).

Xircon
27-05-2005, 04:19
Air elementalists don't run out of energy actually since they have 2 autohit skills (enervating charge and lightning strike) and two additional spamming skills (lightning javelin and lightning orb). Coupled with air attunement they can only be slowed down by enchantment removal, energy removal, daze and the like.
I really can't think of a workable solution besides a ranger and /me team or some other mass protection team (like setting up two tanks with continuously working spell breaker spells on them or with high defense vs elemental bonuses).
That build is similar to a earth stoning build which has the same problem, exaustation. Spam stoning or chein lightning to much and you cannot have energy. Many of the other lightning spells such as lightning strike are not high damage skills.

So, in combination of with interupts, a protectionist, or a ward or two, they won't last long. But the interupts are the key whether it is rangers, warriors, or mesmers doing it.

Kirsty
27-05-2005, 04:26
Well that's the clue actually. You don't really need the high damage exhaustion skills on a lightning based elementalist if you are with 6 of them. And since there are 4 spammable skills which are recharged fast enough to keep casting, it's not hard to call one target and all get the sequence of skills off.
If you're with one or two elementalists, then you often go for the exhaustion skills because there is pressure on you for doing high damage as finisher.

But it holds for basically any setup where you have a few spammable skills. Just get the sequence off, 1-2-3-4, rinse, repeat.

plottski
27-05-2005, 19:13
protective spirit i can't say enough good things bout this skill. A good run with a good monk in the underworld you can see why this skill really shines.


As well as something else to shut these down is a nice energy denail mesmer build thrown in with that ranger pack

Furqan
28-05-2005, 00:14
protective spirit i can't say enough good things bout this skill. A good run with a good monk in the underworld you can see why this skill really shines.

The problem here is you're comparing Protective Spirit's effectiveness in PvE Underworld -vs- a bunch of Human Air Ele's in PvP.

Prot. Spirit works well in PvE because NPC's are mindless and don't understand the concept of changing targets. Human PC's will shatter enchant, or simply switch targets. Protective Spirit has too long of a cooldown to let you do anything if they switch target, which any competent team will quickly do.

Furqan
28-05-2005, 00:15
This team is easily beatable. A ranger heavy team (say 4+ rangers) would tear thru this one. Focus firing Debilitating shot, interrupts and some power hits, coupled with Ranger armor that is inherently elemental resistant is good. A step further would be what Zero suggested - take along winter to make all that ele damage Cold damage, then pack on the Cold resist ranger armor.

yah but do you really think a team of 4 rangers can be effective against the other builds you will face in the march to the HoH?

Hunt3r_kill4
28-05-2005, 00:43
Thats true, if you want a 4+ rangers team, then you wouldn't do very well against another team such as a warrior heavy one.

Tsume
28-05-2005, 09:21
Dont let Undead and Zero hear you say that.....they are a bit ranger crazy at the moment.

So much to the point I'm begining to wonder if they are having delusions of grandure.... :P

Seriously though, not to take any attention away from the Rangers, but assumeing the team of 6 Air elementalists used their available enchantments and a large rank in energystorage, 6 rangers would have to focus fire just to cripple maybe 1....or 2 of those elementalists.

The trick is not to think of some quick unevolved strategy that will only work against that team...but to slowly think it out and get a team thats well rounded but could still beat them.

Don't forget too that most spells are chestpiece targets, and that Warriors absorption works around the board. Not to mention the armor penetration which is a spot where a shield and +armor components can really shine to reduce damage. And if Chain lightning is their only exhaustion skill, they will be in fine shape...there are plenty of other non exhaustion good damage skills for them to pick from....but a solid 6 blasts of chain lightning in rapid succession hits 3 targets each, the first target taking a min of what 496 damage (assumeing they dont have runes...you know its maxed out...it is their strategy afterall), plus 25% armor penetration on each of those hits. (That armor penetration and depending on when it is calculated into the damage equation is a very bad deal against any armor, ranger, warrior or a wee mesmer) And our healers have to heal atleast 3 people (and chain lightning wont allways blast the same 3 people becuase there is movement in the field of batle). Lets not even take into account the Orbs, Javelins, and Strikes they are probably toting. A round of chain lightning followed by a round of Strike will probably take down a single target...then they can move onto one of the weak ones. And they are going healer first right? Probably so, which means the closest targets to our healers are our other healers so those are the weak ones.

Like Zero I consider these builds cheap, if not exploits in a manner of speaking. But I think a well rounded and experienced team, and any other Team Build has a good chance of going toe to toe with these guys. Lets do give it its due though, its a dangerous and explosive build. But like all explosives, once the fuse has run its course your either dead or it was a dud. So the key is not in out damageing them or just useing the age old GW phrase 'focus fire'. Because even if you do focus those 4 power shots, that damage is nowhere near as much as what they are putting out, and frankly as a Ranger your better armor level doesnt matter....becuase your healers and the rest of your team doesnt have that armor level....and once they are down, your just the Lone Ranger. And if they arent over exhausting themselves youll have to focus your debilitating shots for them to have any effect. But by the time youve done your thing your healers are down and now your a fish out of water.

Xircon made a few nice suggestions. Spell Breaker is a good one...lord how annoying is that Spell Breaker (seen a bit of it lately) Give up the elite slot but its a very effective skill, which not only protects you but robs your enemy of their energy (thats right failed spells still cost energy, thats why the warning says 'bla bla bla they have spellbreaker').

Anyhow, my whole point being.....just assumeing Rangers could beat them becuase their armor has inherrent resistance just isnt good form, and moreso, I dont believe they could. It would take a prepared team build or a gimmick of our own to do that.

Just dont forget who the real targets are....our healers...so our thoughts shouldnt be character based, but more team based. How do we protect our healers and other soft armored targets as well as attacking? We'll definatley need the Ward Xircon suggested and some hammer warriors would be nice. Knocked down targets cant attack you know...it also wouldnt hurt if one of them took along Skull Crack. Definatley going to need a protectionist as well, Guardian for sure and possibly taking Spell breaker as the elite. I'd definatley like to have a necro along and have him constantly diseasing their team, their strategy probably doesnt involve running a whole lot... Take atleast one Blackout, Backfire, Diversion, Guilt and Shame wielding Mesmer and have him unloading on one and blacking out another...we dont want a damage dealer...just someone able to shut down efficiently. Allways carry one interrupt for use. Use Inspiration and steal coupled with some mantra of resistance. While lightning would be the prime choice, Elemental Resistance will have you covered in more situations...just dont use it when some warrior on another team is chasing you...unless ofcourse he uses an elemental upgrade which theres more premades than customs right now, so thats not a safe bet. And a dazer might be nice. We could go two Ele/Mo damage/protectionist and damage/snarer with some utility monk skills. Just some possibilities to think of...

Just dont limit yourself to a specific counterbuild.

Kirsty
28-05-2005, 10:56
I don't think these people are purely lightning specialists. I would expect them to have a few backup skills so these is more to counter than just high damage output. They'll be certain to have hex and condition removal with them because they have to keep their elementalists up and running. Plus one of them is bound to throw out backfire on the monk instead of an immediate lightning attack.

You could always go for a monk/elementalist who takes along armor of earth and kinetic armor for extra defense. The problem is that these skills cost quite a bit of energy so that requires a necromancer with blood is power or blood ritual to fuel the monk well enough. It may be something to consider though.