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Hopper The Wolf
28-05-2005, 05:21
Ok, I am having serious trouble getting this character to work right. Most of the time I have to heal the other party members, which gives me no time/energy to actually cause any damage. And when I do cause some, it's not much.

I thought that air magic was supposed to be the best damage to a single target. But my lvl 7 Necro/Mesmer causes more damage to THREE targets at once than my lvl 19 (this char) causes to ONE.

Here are my attributes so far:

Air magic: 11
Energy Storage: 11
Healing: 7

Basically I just need someone to help me cause more damage. If I increase my air magic, I will have less energy, or heal for ****. I also need help with balancing out the ele/monk issue, because for now I am using my secondary much more than the primary.

Thanks for any help

Hopper The Wolf
29-05-2005, 19:06
come on someone reply please

Benevolent Kai
29-05-2005, 20:46
I think it sounds like you're trying to do too many things at once. You can't expect to keep everyone healed and do a ton of damage, it's just no feasable. If you want to be doing huge damage, focus on attacking first, and have someone else do the healing. Then you only heal if someone absolutely needs it. Otherwise you're going to be stuck in that predicament.

Corrodias
30-05-2005, 04:33
this is exactly why i switched from Mo/R with a focus on attacking and a minor focus on healing to Mo/- with a full focus on healing and protection (then later to Mo/E with a focus on self-protection but that's another matter): i wanted to bring 10 skills from each profession and i just wasn't being useful.

acraze
30-05-2005, 23:01
I was trying to make the same kind of character you are talking about, but I was aiming to use the air magic to defend (gale, etc) myself. But I find that I'd be long dead before my air spells finishes recharge I just removed all the points I put on air and add them to healing prayers instead. Finally an elementalist (or any other profession) as primary without divine favors heal only half the amount, if I were you I'd switch to protection prayers and maybe spend more points on air magic instead.

Satan Minion
31-05-2005, 19:24
If you need help with your E/Mo PM me in GW, name is Satan Minion.

I'm level 20 E/Mo Air Magic. I can basically rape PvE bosses and enemies and PvP take monks if they not good healers and help take warriors.

Septiam Vivec
02-06-2005, 02:48
Okay, I'm having a bit of the same problem here. (Good topic by the way)

I've just switched my Elementalist from a secondary mesmer, to a monk. I was wondering how do I keep people from thinking I'm supposed to heal them all the time. My belief on the monk secondary is that it is for your individual healing, not the entire party, because you've put attribute points into other things, not just healing.

I was wondering on how best to use healing skills without sucking enough of my energy away that I cannot hit anything. (The reason I switched from mesmer to monk was to be able to heal myself.)

Kyn Quatrevents
02-06-2005, 11:36
if you want to be efficient, you have to be a specialist.

There are several way to specialize :

anti tank
anti caster
healer
protector
debuffer
...

most of the time, if you want to have a good character, you have to chose one specialisation and to rely on your teammates for the others.

Everyone can take (and maybe should) a self protecting spell. But you have to keep in mind that if your build only helps you, your teammates will not be happy.

What I suggest to most beginning players is that :
4 skills to achieve your main goal.
2 skills to achieve your secondary goal (for adaptability)
1-2 skill to reinforce the group
0-1 skill to help yourself

it s a general guideline that follows the important points :
- be efficient in what you have chosen
- can adapt to the situation
- can help the group

guild wars is a team based game. If you want to solo, take a pure damage dealer and the monk henchman ;)

Septiam Vivec
02-06-2005, 18:43
I understand that this game is based around team play-I do so all the time with my friends. I'm saying why make the Elementalist who's primary goal is to kill, into one that is only to heal, if it *happens* to have monk secondary. I think that's a bit unfair, dont' you think? You're right, everyone has their role, so I think it should be up to a monk primary to heal, while if you are any type of E/Mo, then the healing skills should be to keep you alive, since I've found out that a lot of times (especially) in PvP, they'll come after you first, or at least try to take you down first.

What I'm saying is; if I want to be an anti-tank, for example, but in PvE, or in PvP, should I also be required to drag along 5 healing spells for everyone (and I think this was the original posters question) just because they *think* they need my help?

Also, again, as the original poster stated: when you are continually trying to heal, you truly never get anything damage-wise accomplished, and so in the end, you've become the monk that you may have tried to avoid by not becoming a primary monk to begin with.

Thanks for your tips though; I'll take them into Consideration.
--------
Also, Hopper The Wolf, you'll have time to get more attribute points later in the game, doing a few quests from Droknar's Forge.

Kyn Quatrevents
03-06-2005, 11:43
I understand what you are saying and I realized I didn t explain well mpy point of view.


If you heal yourself, you don t do damage and maybe the main healer will try to heal you at the same time. so it could be inefficient. Of course, if you prepared your battle and explain to the main healer that you ll take care of yourself, It could work.

But keep in mind that teamplay will always be better because the more specialized you are, the more efficient you are. So if you are a true damage dealer, you ll take down enemies very fast, and if you are a true healer, you ll heal your teammates with few energy. Of course, it s good to have a secondary healer if the primary monk has problem. And here is the job of the secondary healer : replace the primary monk when he is in troubles. So your healing spells are not for you, but for the team.

Don t forget that everybody has his own way to play. The only thing taht matter is that you re enjoying playing. I give some advices but not rules. Play the way you enjoy the best. If you have any questions, I will answer them.

Regards,

Kyn

jvxmtg
03-06-2005, 19:38
There is a way to deal damage and heal your party member at the same time. Although you are limited on being extreme for both, you can still contribute. But the build has to be Pyro/Protection and here are your skills

1) Reversal of Fortune (cost: 5)
2) Shielding Hands (cost: 5)
3) Guardian (cost: 5)
4) Glyph of Lesser Energy (cost: 5)
5) Fire Storm (cost: 15)
6) Immolate (cost: 10)
7) Searing Heat (cost: 25)
8) Ether Prodigy (cost: 5)

With those Monk Skills, you can both serve your party and protect yourself. Also, Reversal od Fortune and Ether Prodigy work hand-in-hand ;)

Chicken Chaser
07-06-2005, 11:38
I understand what you are saying and I realized I didn t explain well mpy point of view.


If you heal yourself, you don t do damage and maybe the main healer will try to heal you at the same time. so it could be inefficient. Of course, if you prepared your battle and explain to the main healer that you ll take care of yourself, It could work.

But keep in mind that teamplay will always be better because the more specialized you are, the more efficient you are. So if you are a true damage dealer, you ll take down enemies very fast, and if you are a true healer, you ll heal your teammates with few energy. Of course, it s good to have a secondary healer if the primary monk has problem. And here is the job of the secondary healer : replace the primary monk when he is in troubles. So your healing spells are not for you, but for the team.

Don t forget that everybody has his own way to play. The only thing taht matter is that you re enjoying playing. I give some advices but not rules. Play the way you enjoy the best. If you have any questions, I will answer them.

Regards,

Kyn

Kyn, you mentioned being specialize to be efficient but then you said E/Mo can help as secondary healer. Personally I think it is important to specialize in one skill but flexiblility also important.

I am only a lvl 18 E/Mo with:
Energy Storage :11 +1
Fire Magic: 7+ 1
Healing Prayers: 7
Air Magic: (not yet, still thinking about it. Any advice?)

At first glance, my E/Mo is both weak in Fire Magic and Healing. And yes, as I am weak in both. But for PvE, I am flexible. During a quest to Aurora Glade and at lvl 17, I was the main healer and spam heal most of the time. There was a E/Me in our group so I just let him do the nuke part. Our team was surprised to see how we killed like 8-10 mobs in one battle with 5 members. I understand Monk's Divine Favor still makes them the best candidate as main healer. But in extreme cases, switching my role can save the day.

In conclusion: Is easy to specialize in one skill, but it takes a player's skill and discipline to play his class in order to help the team to acheive the goal. :worship:

Rubch One
08-06-2005, 01:29
Maybe if we'd all give an idea of how much damage we are doing, we'd be able to benchmark our damage output. Iím a lvl20 e/mo with 11 air. I just got most of the air skills Iíve wanted. I basically use aura of restoration and air attunement and spam enervating charge, lightning orb, strike and charge, which deal 35, 80, 50 and 80 dmg, respectively on a lvl19 troll for instance. I realize comparisons may be difficult, but Iíd like to get an idea of how much dmg others are doing with the same skill set.

um104
09-06-2005, 04:32
you said charge twice. =D
ok, for orb, you shouldnt do only 80 dmg. lvl 19 trolls have around 60 armor, and thats with the 25% AP, so u should do at LEAST the dmg it says on the skill. now, i recomend u guys do the 12, 10, 8 attribute set instead of 11, 11, 9, or 7, or wutever it was. the reason being is ur Air skills get more powerful. to the first person who made the thread: your probably not using the guy right. check your skill set, and make sure their for dmg. also (4got where i read it in this thread), Air defence is pretty bad. if you want defence, go with Earth, because thats what it does. you know, armor of earth, its wards... kinda gives u a hint. ;-D
If any1 needs help w/anything, PM me here, or msg me in game. IGN Derek Alemer.
Air Elementalist Extrordinare
--um104

starbeast
09-06-2005, 06:23
I've finally stumbled upon what I think works quite well for my character and gaming style. After multiple attempts at something worth while. Everyones fire based so I didn't want that I wanted to be water originally but it fell short on how I like to play so I ended my career as Lightning/Earth with Res

Kira Runefaust (E/Mo) Lvl 20 PvE

Attribute Ranks. Runes. Item. Total.
Air 10 +2 +1 13
Earth 11 +2 +0 13
Energy 10 +1 +0 11

Spells I use by attribute
(Air)
Chain Lightning
Lightning Orb
Lightning Strike
(Earth)
Ward vs Melee
Armor of Earth
Eruption
(Energy)
Ether Prodigy (Elite)
(None)
Rebirth

Chain Lightning = what I'd consider single blast AoE spell with armor penatration
Lightning Orb & Lightning Strike = spamming damage spells with armor penatration
Ward vs Melee = good for all, warriors will also love you in UW with this spell running. Enemies melee hits only land 50% of the time
Armor of Earth = life saver when things go wrong and the monsters bypass the warriors up front trying to get to us casters and monks. I step up front of the other caster to take the hits by casting Armor of Earth/Ward vs Melee and Eruption to Blind and damage.
Eruption = good for all damages as AoE and blinds when complete I try to time this spell and ward vs melee so that one effect is always on the monster.
Ether Prodigy = after and during battle I cast this spell having 8pips of energy recovery is always good to stay alive and a float
Rebirth = this fixes quite a few bad scenarios where someone ran to far forward or the group was annihilated but you managed to survive and escape. you can come back and res at a distance pulling your companions to yourself.

Hope ya find this useful in some way. :happy65:

starbeast
09-06-2005, 07:16
@chicken chaser take either fire or air not both its not worth it to spread yourself thin in two realms that do exactly the same thing aka damage.


I do have a question thou.

On my build above I use two major runes and a minor at a total loss of 100 hit points. Would it be worth it for me to pick up three superior runes and increase my effectiveness for the loss of more hit points therefore putting my air and earth at 14 ranks and my energy storage at 13 for a total loss of 225 hit points?


Quickly does math start with 100 hit points 20 per level 30 from minor vigor puts me at 530 total minus 100 for two major runes equals 430 <-- this is me now.. or 530 minus three superior runes equals 305 hit points

um104
10-06-2005, 04:57
wait wait wait... if ur an elementalist, and w/a minor, u get 530, then u should have 500 normally... but im lvl 20 and i only get 470-ish! unfair...
With that build u just made, ur NRG will drop down immensly once ur ether prodigy ends. i suggest putting in some attunement.
Air Elementalist Extrordinare
--um104

agentblade
10-06-2005, 11:28
is ether prodigy really that good, 8 pips of energy looks delicious :happy14: but it also says that "When Ether Prodigy ends, you take 2 damage for each point of energy you have. This spell causes exhaustion". Ok i know exhaustion for ele primary isn't such a big deal but if i have 68 energy at when ether prodigy ends wun i take 136 dmg? Have anyone tried this in battle b4? how feasible it is or is attunement better?

Sigrun Darkbane
10-06-2005, 11:57
is ether prodigy really that good, 8 pips of energy looks delicious :happy14: but it also says that "When Ether Prodigy ends, you take 2 damage for each point of energy you have. This spell causes exhaustion". Ok i know exhaustion for ele primary isn't such a big deal but if i have 68 energy at when ether prodigy ends wun i take 136 dmg? Have anyone tried this in battle b4? how feasible it is or is attunement better?

Ether Prodigy is a good skill, however I personally prefer using Elemental Attunement which is also an elite skill. Here's its description:

Elemental Attunement - For 45 seconds, you are attuned to air, fire, water, and earth. You gain 50% of the energy cost of the spell each time you use magic associated with any of these elements. This is an elite skill.

PVP fights can last a long time and an Elementalist preferably doesn't want to sacrifice any health for energy, especially when that spell also causes exhaustion (Ether Prodigy). With the recharge on Elemental Attunement being 60 seconds you can also keep it up for most of the fight and cut the cost of your elemental skills in half.

starbeast
10-06-2005, 22:21
I use ether prodigy because its spammable (5 second recharge) and lasts 21 seconds for me with a skill of 11 ranks in energy storage the damage from ether prodigy is only noticeable outside of combat when i do it for quick recharge then monk heals me then we take on new set of monsters. other wise. If during combat I'm rapiding off spells so even with 2 damage done per energy I never take more than thirty damage usually less.

Dar Greymere
11-06-2005, 03:38
I thought about using the AP spells and such of the Air realm with my E/Mo but then I said to myself, why bother focusing mainly on Air with a slight AP when I can use the monk's smiting ability which ignores armor completely? I switch around my attributes and skills depending on how effectively I'll be able to keep myself healed but with spells like Mist Armor and Protective Spirit one can reduce physical damage to nothing for a period and overall damage as well with PS. In addition, when traveling with a party that includes either fire or air E's I dish out way more damage in a shorter period of time then they do. All of the aforementioned is, of course, in PvE and not PvP.

-Dar

Pionata
25-06-2005, 08:40
Im a Air/Mo also, and I tought I would share my build.

First as a tip, I suggest removing some of your energy and using the points in other skills (while keeping a good regen method).

I do not remember my build by heart but its something like this :

16 Air (12+3rune +1eye)
9 Protection
9 or 10 energy (with +1 rune)
4 or so remaining points in earth ( with +1 rune)

-Aegis (9 sec or 8 dont remember) (ennemy 50% misses)
-Air attunement (30% mana recharge)
-Elemental attunement (50% mana recharge) - both together = 80% (almost no mana lost, so no need for 13 of energy)!
-Chain Lightning (only spell that drain, but the time it recharge the drain is gone)
-Enervating charge (weakens enemy 66% misses)
-Blinding spell (10 sec) (dont remember name, cause 90% miss)
-Lightning Orb
-Lightning strike

So far Im having a blast with this character, it is much stronger than my old fire ele.

Tell me what you think.

edit: sometimes I use melee ward (12 sec) instead of lightning strike and javelin instead of blindness

Rubch One
27-06-2005, 21:03
Im a Air/Mo also, and I tought I would share my build.

First as a tip, I suggest removing some of your energy and using the points in other skills (while keeping a good regen method).

I do not remember my build by heart but its something like this :

16 Air (12+3rune +1eye)
9 Protection
9 or 10 energy (with +1 rune)
4 or so remaining points in earth ( with +1 rune)

-Aegis (9 sec or 8 dont remember) (ennemy 50% misses)
-Air attunement (30% mana recharge)
-Elemental attunement (50% mana recharge) - both together = 80% (almost no mana lost, so no need for 13 of energy)!
-Chain Lightning (only spell that drain, but the time it recharge the drain is gone)
-Enervating charge (weakens enemy 66% misses)
-Blinding spell (10 sec) (dont remember name, cause 90% miss)
-Lightning Orb
-Lightning strike

So far Im having a blast with this character, it is much stronger than my old fire ele.

Tell me what you think.

edit: sometimes I use melee ward (12 sec) instead of lightning strike and javelin instead of blindness

Since you're only using 1 protection skill, I'd suggest moving those attribute points into earth. You can use ward against melee to accomplish the same thing as aegis for a longer period of time. Of course you'd have to stay within it's range but it recharges pretty quickly. Armor of earth and other earth skills are pretty useful, too.

jvxmtg
27-06-2005, 22:00
Here's my build and I hope it shed some light (I recently changed my 2ndary prof from Ranger to Monk), mainly all points in Air/ES/Smiting;

1) Thunderclap
2) Chain Lightning
3) Scourge Healing
4) Zealot's Fire
5) Smite Hex
6) Symbol of Wrath
7) Vengeance
8) Essence Bond

I don't even bother healing my team mate, instead I raise them using Vengeance. And Essence Bond ensures that I have near endless energy source. The sooner you eliminate the opposition, the less you have to worry about your team dying. If you play it right, then you'll enjoy this build. ;)

Defiled Immortal
02-07-2005, 02:43
Here's my build and I hope it shed some light (I recently changed my 2ndary prof from Ranger to Monk), mainly all points in Air/ES/Smiting;

1) Thunderclap
2) Chain Lightning
3) Scourge Healing
4) Zealot's Fire
5) Smite Hex
6) Symbol of Wrath
7) Vengeance
8) Essence Bond

I don't even bother healing my team mate, instead I raise them using Vengeance. And Essence Bond ensures that I have near endless energy source. The sooner you eliminate the opposition, the less you have to worry about your team dying. If you play it right, then you'll enjoy this build. ;)

this is assuming u want to "eliminate the opposition"
are u on crack?... essence bond takes 1 pip of energy AWAY (if your gona use it... u better bring eather protogy) cause unless the warrior gets mobbd its not worth bringing... and secondly if u bring Air ele spells and pump your air to 16 u can do just as much with status effects (blind/weaken) as u can with healing... simply cause they WILL NOT NEED IT. furthermore if you feel the need for an AoE.. take stuff out of smiting and put it into fire... i would take a MS or a FS over SoR any day.
just my 2 gp

GraulTehUber
12-07-2005, 07:34
Air Els are imbalanced. Just load up on air nukes and get ressurection.

Healia Exe
23-07-2005, 18:25
Yeah i agree with the post above, if you want to be air mage, just leave your healing. Besides without being pure monk your healing is too weak anyways, because monks get a big extra healing bonus of Divine Favor.

Just pump up your air as much as u can, then you do some in energy storage. I usually put some in healing prayers as well to use moves like Heal Area that give you a big hp shot when u need it, though u need to watch it not to heal the enemy. This way u can charge the enemy at ur best, deal as much dmg as u need to and even heal yourself a bit if monks are too busy or drained from their energy. This would mean a skill bar of 6 air skills, 1 heal area and 1 (revive move, i usually use Rebirth). And this would make you a lot more useful in their team. If they start talking they have a few 'secondary' monks in their team so it shouldnt b any problem to make a mission, or they ask you to heal, make them clear that you are no healer elementalist and that your team needs a monk. Even if your team would die in a mission afterwards they cant blame you this way, because you told them you are no healer.

laugm
27-07-2005, 09:31
Im trying out this currently:
Air Magic 11+1+3 =15
Energy Storage 10+1=11
Protection Prayers 10

Lightning Strike
Lightning Javelin
Chain Lightning
Lightning Orb
Enervating Charge
Mark of Protection (elite)
Air Attunement
Aura of Restoration/Res Signet