Air Elementalist -- Counter Team Build (LONG AND DETAILED)

[Torm Shadowbane]

I originally intended for this post to go in the "I DESPISE this new Trend of Air Elementalist" thread, but after taking all the time to think things through and type this out... I think it deserves a thread of it's own. I'd be interested in feed back on improvements to this team build. This is a long post.
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Alright, so I am sitting here pondering this.... and here is what I've come up with. This post will be very, very long, but hopefully interesting.

You want a well balanced Team in Tombs. A Team running the Air Elementalist build is not all that well balanced and relies heavily on taking out enemy teams with coordination and hard hitting damage. They have a window of opportunity and if it is squandered then they have to be a good team to recover from it. Their weakness is their lack of balance and virsatility.

I propose the following team:
2 Tanks
2 Mesmers
1 Healer
1 Protector
1 Ranger/Necromancer or Necro/Ranger
1 Elementalist

The (ideal) Team Build I would use:

Monk/Warrior
Warrior/Monk
Mesmer/Necromancer
Mesmer/Monk
Monk/Mesmer
Monk/Mesmer
Necromancer/Ranger
Elementalist/Monk

Their Builds would look as follows:

Monk/Warrior 12 Smiting, 12 Hammer
Frenzy
Earth Shaker (Elite)
Hammer Bash
Counter Blow
Judge's Insight
Balthazar's Spirit
Balthazar's Aura
Res Signet / Restore Life

This would be a some what tricky build to play. You can't use Frenzy at the beginning. You would get yourself killed. You'd cast Balthazar's Spirit before combat starts. Use Insight on yourself right as the timer hits zero or your party is moving in for the attack. You will most likely be the first one targeted, and this what you want. You'd stand in front of the others and even bring a focus and a wand as a secondary weapon to use before a fight if you are just facing them off and they are sending scouts. Then right as the battle begins switch to your hammer. You'd be the one scouting, trying to become the first one targeted by the group by getting their attention. That way the Protection Monk will be ready to protect you from their assault. Keep Insight up and running. Cast Aura every so often. When you are no longer the target, or you are certain that you are not a target, Frenzy and begin laying out the damage. (You could, of course, use Berserker’s Stance without the negative side effect, but it takes to long to recharge IMO.) Before you Frenzy always be certain that you are not under any direct or major assault.

Warrior/Monk 10 Strength, 12 Hammer, 6 Smiting, 5 Protection, 3 Healing
Frenzy
Earth Shaker
Crushing Blow
Hammer Bash
Judge's Insight
Mend Ailment
Convert Hexes
Restore Life / Res Signet

Similar to the above build. Frenzy is used in the same way. Crushing Blow to inflict a deep wound. Judge's Insight on yourself. This guy's job is pretty straight forward, with the exception he will be removing conditions such as blindness and other such annoying things from himself and the other tank. Convert Hexes will be used mostly on the Monks or if there is an anti-warrior Mesmer screwing around with things.

Mesmer/Necromancer 10 Fast Casting, 11 Illusion, 10 Curses

Phantom Pain
Arcane Echo
Migraine (Elite)
Conjure Phantasm
Sympathetic Visage
Enfeeble Blood
Weaken Armor
Res Signet

You are the anti-warrior and anti-air elementalist Mesmer. You can either wait to cast Sympathetic Visage on whoever the other group's main target is or you can cast it on the Monk/Warrior in hopes that he is able to gain the attention of the enemy first. For casters -- in particular evil Air Elementalists -- you will open with this combo: Phantom Pain, Arcane Echo, Migraine. Switch to other elementalist or caster Conjure Phantasm, Migraine (created by your Arcane Echo). Then cast Weaken Armor on the main target. Turn your attention to an enemy warrior and cast Enfeeble Blood and if you haven't already, Sympathetic Visage on their main target. Get ready to turn your attention back to the casters. Remember to use your Enfeeble Blood spell wisely as it is a sacrifice spell.

Mesmer / Monk 10 Fast Casting, 10 Domination, 10 Illusion, 5 Smiting
Phantom Pain
Arcane Echo
Migraine (Elite)
Conjure Phantasm
Scourge Healing
Chaos Storm
Backfire
Restore Life / Res Signet

You are the anti-caster and anti-monk Mesmer of the group. You will open with the same combo as the above monk when facing off against the evil Air Elementalists. Phantom Pain, Arcane Echo, Migraine. Switch to other Air Elementalist or other enemy caster. Conjure Phantasm followed by Migraine (Arcane Echo). Scourge Healing on the main enemy target, Chaos Storm above the Elementalists or Monks. Backfire on non-main enemy target, preferably another elementalist or monk. Get ready for next round.

Monk/Mesmer Divine Favor 10, Healing 12, Inspiration 7
Healing Breeze
Orison of Healing
Healing Touch
Word of Healing (Elite)
Healing Seed
Convert Hexes
Divine Boon
Spirit of Failure

You are the groups main healer. Cast Divine Boon on yourself before combat starts. When combat begins target an enemy tank and cast Spirit of Failure. This will make him miss 25% of the time in combat and each time he does you will gain 3 energy. Once a N/R casts Price of Failure on him he will have a 50% chance of missing his targets, that will be increased if he attacks anyone within the Ward Against Melee. Focus on Sword or Axe Warriors over Hammer Warriors for their fast attack speeds. Use Orison for your standard heal. Seed to be used on Hero (in HoH or Hold the Altar matches) or Priest if they are under attack. If you don't heal wastefully (believe me -- some monks do this) you should have a near endless supply of energy. However, if you do experience an energy shortage -- and you most likely will at some point -- simply remove Divine Boon. Convert Hexes if you are under heavy assault from Hexes and need to get rid of them. Don't bother wasting energy on removing hexes if it's only one! Let the Protector Monk know, that's his job.


Monk/Mesmer 10 Divine Favor, 9 Healing Prayers, 10 Protection Prayers, 7 Inspiration
Orison of Healing
Heal Other
Restore Condition (Elite)
Protective Spirit
Reversal of Fortune
Aegis
Remove Hex
Spirit of Failure

Your main job will be Hex and Condition Removal, however you will also be filling the role as secondary Healer. Like the Healing Monk you will be casting Spirit of Failure on a Melee. Just make sure it's the same Melee person. Use Protective Spirit on the Monk/Warrior in the beginning but also make sure you quickly cast it on yourself and the other Monk. Use Aegis when Ward Against Melee comes down. Reversal of Fortune on main target. Fairly straight forward. Just have to be quick on your toes and be prepared to switch roles quickly.

Necromancer/Ranger 10 Marksmanship, 11 Curses, 10 Death Magic
Crippling Shot
Concussion Shot
Price of Failure
Malign Intervention
Well of the Profane
Rigor Mortis
Mark of Pain
Res Signet

This character has many jobs. First thing he is going to do is use Crippling Shot on the main target so that they cannot run away. After the Mesmers have landed their Migraines, concussion shot a caster (Elementalist if you are fighting them). Follow up the main target with Malign Intervention and Mark of Pain. Use Well of the Profane if the enemy died in a useful location to strip enchantments from other enemies and prevent new ones from being cast. If they are dodging, hit them with Rigor Mortis. Use Price of Failure on the Melee for the Monks.

Elementalist/Monk 10 Energy Storage, 10 Earth Magic, 10 Water Magic, 5 Air Magic
Ward Against Harm (Elite)
Ward Against Elements
Ward Against Melee
Maelstrom
Gale
Aftershock
Stone Daggers
Restore Life / Res Signet

So much depends on this character when it comes to the Air Elementalists. I would highly suggest increasing Earth Magic to 12 using runes. The same goes for Water Magic. You are a defensive Elementalist rather than an Offensive one. Your main job will be creating Wards. Ward Against Harm will provide 20 Armor against all forms of damage, 44 armor against fire damage at level 10. Combine that with Ward Against the Elements for 24 Armor at level 10... this will help survive the first wave of attacks. You will be able to seriously put a dent in the damage they can deal. If you know you are going to face Air Elementalists then prepare those wards first. Use Ward Against Melee if you find yourself facing your typical group with a lot of Melee's. Use Maelstrom over casters -- use it after the Mesmers have increased the length of their spell casting time. This will ensure that they are interrupted. Use Gale to interrupt and knock down enemies. Stone Daggers will be your typical attack, if both strike at level 12 Earth Magic you will deal 40 damage. Time your Aftershock with the warrior's use of Earth Shaker. Your main job will be to maintain the wards, deal a little extra damage, while at the same time interrupting enemy spell casters.

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So those are each of them separate. How will they work together? The main damage will come from the two Warriors. Judges Insight combined with Weaken Armor will give an enemy -40 Armor against their attacks, in addition to them dealing Holy Damage. Enemy Necromancers, watch out. For this to work it all comes down to timing. Each Mesmer has to know what target the other Mesmer is casting on so that they don't use their spells on the same target. Coordination is hugely important as everyone to some extent relies on everyone else. You won't be seeing 3 second instant kills, unless it's a Necromancer who is weak against Holy Damage, but you should be able to hold your own as a team against many forms of attack.

The team build is fairly versatile and if played correctly would be difficult to beat because of it's versatility and that is the real downside of the Air Elementalist team build -- the lack of versatility.

[DutchSmurf]

It would work against a team of Elementalists, since you can survive until they are out of energy. But you just don't have the damage to kill one of their monks, making it a long and boring match. The enemy monks don't have to do that many healing and can save their energy that way. Same for you after the first wave. And when facing a warrior team you will have no chance at all, because they don't depend on energy.

[Torm Shadowbane]

I think you are underestimating weaken armor + judge’s insight. That is -40 Armor. For a Warrior wearing Knights Armor that will lower his Armor Level down to 40. That's worse than the Armor he picks up at Yak's Bend. I'd estimate Max Damage Hammers + Frenzy will hit for around 90 damage on average, perhaps a max of 120. Per swing. With two of them going at it that is 180 damage per swing minimum. It's also holy damage, and if it's a Necromancer well... he'd likely die within the first few seconds. Ward Against Melee is useless against them because of Rigor Mortis which would take away their primary target's ability to evade or block.

Also, there is a lot of subtle damage. 220 Damage from Balthazar's Aura in 10 seconds. Phantom Pain -2 Health Degen, Migraine -2 Health Degen. Conjure Phantasm -5 Health Degen. Scourge Healing on the enemy target -37 damage to the monks every time he is healed. 110 Damage from Chaos Storm, plus the draining of 50 energy from the enemy. 105 Damage from Backfire. I won't count Price of Failure.

Don't forget, Malign Intervention. That will make the target receive 20% less benefit from healing spells. Well of the Profane will, if used properly and depending on the map and battle location, render Protection Monks useless and take away spells such as Healing Breeze and Healing Seed from the enemy. Mark of Pain will cause 32 damage to all nearby enemies every time one of the warrior hits the main target. Maelstrom 200 damage, in addition to interrupts. 141 Damage from Aftershock if used properly with the Warrior's Earth shaker, plus 40 from Stone daggers.

Enfeebling Blood, Sympathetic Visage, Price of Failure, Spirit of Failure, and Ward Against Melee will make short work of their enemy Warriors.

The Team doesn't do a lot of damage compared to a lot of other teams, true. However the key to winning in Tombs is often not "who can kill who first" but rather who can out live who. Enemy Monks may seem to be a problem until they find themselves with very slow casting heals, constantly being interrupted, taking damage every time they actually do heal in addition to taking damage for casting it, that their heals aren't healing nearly as well as they should, that their healing breeze doesn't work, and that they are dazed for 11 seconds... In the wrong hands I don't think this build would be successful, for the reasons you pointed out. But if each member of the team knew what they were doing, were moderately skilled, and could coordinate their attacks properly the team should have a good deal of success.

You could always, I suppose, have the Necromancer/Ranger switch to Necromancer/Warrior.

Necromancer/Warrior 12 Axe, 9 Curses, 9 Death Magic boost Death and Curses to 10 with Minor Runes.

Frenzy
Penetrating Blow
Eviscerate (Elite)
Malign Intervention
Well of the Profane
Rigor Mortis
Price of Failure
Res Signet

Switch:
Warrior/Monk's Crushing Blow with Mighty Blow.

Mesmer/Monk's Scourge Healing with Imagined Burden.

Warrior wouldn't need Crushing Blow with N/W 's Eviscerate as it causes a deep wound, need a way to slow targets from running so Mesmer/Monk's job will be to cast Imagined Burden on the enemy target.

The N/W will have a standard attack of -20 from Weaken Armor, and the occasional -70 Armor attack with Penetrating Blow. He can help make up for the lack of damage being dealt in the party. Unfortunately the party loses the ability to daze a target for 11 seconds. However, damage being dealt will increase dramatically.

[dirtycash]

I had really hoped that this would be the answer. Sadly its not.

Main problem I see without even reading much of this, is you have only 2 monk primary.

With the complaints thus far being you lack damage output, combined with not a lot of healing = not a very good build.

[AlucardInsig]

I had really hoped that this would be the answer. Sadly its not.

Main problem I see without even reading much of this, is you have only 2 monk primary.

With the complaints thus far being you lack damage output, combined with not a lot of healing = not a very good build.

Also many good Air ele builds also have unlimited energy and self heal, basically a elementalist party generally have killing combo ones (Surge Orb Gale Chain Lit) and long lasting consistent ones (Double attunement + AOR), as well as monks. So its still very iffy, the biggest problem however is that the DPS of this is problematic in the many diffrent team u gonna face in Tombs or GvG

But at least this is a very nice attempt and many of the detail are great things for me to think about, so thanks a lot

[Torm Shadowbane]

Alright, ran a few tests to see if I could squeeze enough DPS out of Warriors. With hammer, I couldn't do it. It's not as much as I had hoped. I'm going to try with axe instead and tweak some other areas of the build.

I really didn't like how things worked. You look at something on paper, and you think "this should work," then you try it out... and you realize... "This isn't going according to plan."

Here are some adjustments I've made, with the same basic ideas in mind.

Warrior/Monk 10 Strength, 12 Axe Mastery, 8 Smiting
Eviscerate (Elite)
Executioner's Strike
Penetrating Blow
Axe Rake
Mend Ailment
Symbol of Wrath
Judge's Insight
Restore Life / Res Signet

Switched the Monk/Warrior out to primary warrior. I tried him out and his build just wasn't working the way I had hoped. I think in the long run, unless played by someone very skilled, he'd end up becoming a burden to the healers of the team. This guy will dish out a fair amount of damage, which is something the team was lacking. His role is pretty straight forward.

Warrior/Monk 10 Strength, 12 Axe Mastery, 8 Smiting
Penetrating Blow
Executioner's Strike
Cleave (Elite)
Axe Twist
Mend Ailment
Convert Hexes
Judge's Insight
Restore Life

Just like the guy above, except he has Convert Hexes in case one of the team members (Monks in particular) gets burdened heavy with them. Both of these Warriors have Mend Ailment, mostly to cure Blindness.

Warrior/Necromancer 10 Strength, 11 Swordsmanship, 10 Curses
Sever Artery
Hamstring
Savage Slash
Galrath Slash
Rend Enchantments
Rigor Mortis
Weaken Armor
Res Signet

Dropped the extra Mesmer, unfortunately, for this guy. His opening move will be Hamstring followed by Weaken Armor. Using Galrath Slash over Final Thrust for several reasons, mostly because I don't find Final Thrust to be all that great compared to Galrath and Thrust drains all adrenaline which is horribly annoying. This guy doesn't need Gash because Warrior/Monk #1 is using Eviscerate. Deep Wounds and Bleeding do not stack. Rigor Mortis prevents blocking or dodging by the enemy making Wards Against Melee and other attempts to dodge the Melee's attacks useless. Also the team needed away to get rid of Enchantments right then and their without waiting for the Well of Profane. Something like Sympathetic Visage would have shut down the team pretty bad because it is an Enchantment, not a Hex. This guy will fix that problem.

Mesmer/Monk 12 Fast Casting, 12 Domination
Arcane Echo
Power Block (Elite)
Chaos Storm
Backfire
Power Leak
Power Spike
Black Out
Restore Life / Res Signet

Well, I am a bit ashamed I didn't think of it before, but Power Block is a much better solution to the problem than simply slowing down their casting with Migraine. Arcane Echo, Power Block one Elementalist. Then Power Block a second with your Arcane Echo. Black Out a third if there are four. Power Leak, Power Spike, etc all nice and wonderful things to be used. The benefits of using Power Block is that it completely disables their skills -- for longer than Migraine lasted. It also cannot be removed via a hex removal spell or skill, making this the best solution.

Monk/Necromancer 12 Divine Favor, 12 Healing Prayers, 3 Protection
Healing Breeze
Orison of Healing
Healing Touch
Word of Healing (Elite)
Healing Seed
Convert Hexes
Blood Ritual
Aegis

This guy is still the main healer of the group. I tried out the Mesmer Spirit of Failure build and didn't like it. Divine Boon might be used for this build as well, but I will have to try it out myself. Use Blood Ritual to regain energy (can Blood Ritual be cast on yourself?). Use Aegis when the Ward Against Melee comes down until it is recast.

Monk/Necromancer 11 Divine Favor, 12 Healing Prayers, 6 Protection Prayers
Healing Touch
Orison of Healing
Word of Healing (Elite)
Protective Spirit
Protective Bond
Mend Ailment
Remove Hex
Blood Ritual

Alright, comments said there wasn't enough healing power so I boosted this guys ability. His main job will still be hex and ailment removal. Bond will be used on himself and the other Monk before combat just incase they run into Air Elementalists. Once the Monk knows its safe and clear he can remove the Bond. He can use Protective Spirit on whoever is under major assault and perform his back-up healing duties. If Blood Ritual can't be cast on yourself then the Monks can cast it on each other, or another caster, if needed. (Naturally you would use it wisely as you would any sacrifice spell.)

Elementalist/Necromancer 10 Energy Storage, 10 Fire Magic, 10 Death Magic
Malign Intervention
Well of the Profane
Flame Burst
Meteor
Meteor Shower
Flare
Fire Attunement
Res Signet

Alright, opening move is to cast Malign Intervention on the main target, preventing them from being healed. Well of the Profane when it can be cast at a good location. Meteor and Meteor Shower for knock down and damage ability. Flare for standard attack. Flame Burst occasionally when you can get three or four with it. Meteor and Meteor Shower when the Mesmer's Blocks have worn off, making certain that the other Elementalist knows when you are casting it so he can be ready to hit them with Aftershock. Perhaps the easiest character and most straight forward character to play in the entire build.

Elementalist/Monk 10 Energy Storage, 10 Earth Magic, 10 Water Magic, 5 Air Magic
Ward Against Harm (Elite)
Ward Against Elements
Ward Against Melee
Maelstrom
Gale
Aftershock
Stone Daggers
Restore Life / Res Signet

Same as he is above, with the same job. The only difference is that this time instead of waiting for Earth Shaker's from hammer warriors, he will be waiting for the Fire Elementalist to cast Meteor Shower or Meteor to use his aftershock.

I think the damage output now is fairly good. Healing should be decent to okay, and the team should be able to get by on two Healers, especially considering the Wards will allow them to avoid most damage.

What are the thoughts on the modifications made?

[toor]

My guild is one of those that has and does run the 3 Aeromancer + 3 monk build very often. We also have had a lot of success with it. When I look at your builds I like where they are going. Somethings that I noticed.

- One of the biggest things to hurt Air is a good protection monk. Protective spirit and spell breaker completely elminate the ability to do burst dmg. I think chaing the ward guy into Wards + prot spells would probably be viable.

- The E/N is by far your weakest hero. If you were trying to add dmg then Fire is not the way to do it. Rather the curse necro you were initially tossing around is probably a lot smarter. Lingering Curse for their monks maybe well of profane to own their enchantments rigor mortis to stop the inevitable Aegis + WAM.

Anyways me and my guild have been trying to think of counters to this FotM crap and this seems like a competent plausible solution.

[Torm Shadowbane]

Thank you for your feedback. I really want to be able to form a group that can withstand the Air Elementalist Team Builds, but at the same time be flexible enough to handle most other situations you will run into while doing Tombs.

That, and for some strange reason I really enjoy putting together Team Builds. :happy34:

I think you are right about the E/N, and there is a lot of stress on the E/M.

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Alright, I dropped the E/N and went with a similar idea of a Curse / Death Magic Necro. Came up with this nasty little critter to add to the team.

Necro/Monk 5 Soul Reaping, 10 Curses, 10 Death Magic, 10 Healing Prayers
Lingering Curse (Elite)
Well of Suffering
Well of the Profane
Rigor Mortis
Mark of Pain
Malaise
Healing Breeze
Restore Life / Res Signet

Heh, this little guy is pretty nasty. Lingering Curse will strip all enchantments in addition to only granting the target half benefit from healing. Well of Suffering for that nice -4 Health Degen. Well of the Profane, prevents enchantments from being cast on all foes standing within it, in addition to them being stripped of all their enchantments. Rigor Mortis to aid the W/N in preventing blocking and evasion. (Rigor Mortis has a 30 second re-cast timer, and I think the group should be able to kill quicker than that.) Mark of Pain for a little extra damage, and considering that the party is rather Melee heavy. Malaise is the real kicker in this build, I think, in addition to Lingering Curse. This should effectively be able to drain energy like no one's business, -2 energy degeneration on a foe for 25 seconds. Healing Breeze will counter the downside of Malaise (-2 health degen on yourself), as well as the sacrifice from using Lingering Curse. The real question is can you stack Malaise on multiple targets and still only have -2 health Degeneration, considering that hexes do not stack (on yourself). If so with a re-cast time of 2 seconds and a energy cast of 5 this guy could effectively drain an entire team's energy with no real loss to himself. If not, with Breeze active he could effectively keep three Malaise going on an enemy, with still one bar of health regeneration.

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I also made modifications to one of the Monk/Necro's and the Elementalist/Monk as per your suggestion.

Monk/Necromancer 11 Divine Favor, 12 Healing Prayers, 6 Protection
Reversal of Fortune
Protective Spirit
Healing Breeze
Heal Other
Word of Healing (Elite)
Heal Party
Protective Bond
Blood Ritual

I dropped Orison for Reversal of Fortune. With the high divine favor and decent protection it should actually be better. I kept Protective Spirit on this guy, as well as Protective Bond. The Bond on the two Monks should make certain that they survive any initial assault. It can then be removed once the wards are active. Healing Breeze to use in conjunction with Blood Ritual. Heal Other and Word of Healing for more serious back-up healing abilities. Heal Party because I still consider this guy to be back-up and I think it is valuable for a back-up healer to carry Heal Party.

Elementalist/Monk 5 Energy Storage, 10 Earth Magic, 10 Water Magic, 10 Protection Prayers
Ward Against Harm (Elite)
Ward Against Elements
Ward Against Melee
Protective Spirit
Eruption
Mend Ailment
Remove Hex
Restore Life/Res Signet

I took your advise, and I think this guy needs to stay Elementalist primary for the Energy Storage. Maintaining the Wards will be taxing on his energy. He is now, of course, taking a full support role. I am unsure about Eruption as it is very energy intensive, but it does have the ability to blind those who are within it when it ends. It could be helpful on Melee's who enter the Ward to blind them for a bit of extra protection.

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What thoughts does anyone have on the adjustments?

[Carcassone]

First of all great thread Tom and good work thinking on way to skirmish the air elementalist builds - your build points out very good issues!!!

Well I've made this build to disable casters. Its a very early not to much thinking build, but i think it arises some good points and can serve to bring contributions from other players.

Here it goes:The Edge - Guild Wars Utility
http://renobrothers.waynereno.com/

Class: Warrior / Mesmer

Attributes: (cost) '+' indicates Rune attributes
Strength: 5+2 (15)
Axe Mastery: 10 (61)
Domination Magic: 10 (61)
Illusion Magic: 10 (61)

Total attribute points used: 198/200

Skills: [Attribute] (Energy, Cast Time, Recharge TIme)
1) Cleave [Axe Mastery] (0,0,4) Axe Attack: If this attack hits, you strike for +20 damage. This is an elite skill.

2) Dismember [Axe Mastery] (0,0,7) Axe Attack: If it hits, this axe blow will inflict a deep wound on the target foe, lowering that foe's maximum health by 20% for 15 seconds.

3) Axe Rake [Axe Mastery] (0,0,7) Axe Attack: If this attack hits a foe suffering from a deep wound, you strike for +7 damage, and that foe becomes crippled.

4) Disrupting Chop [none] (0,0,6) Axe Attack: If it hits, this attack interrupts the target's current action. If that action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.

5) Rush [Strength] (0,0,4) Stance: For 14 seconds, you move 25% faster.

6) Arcane Conundrum [Illusion Magic] (10,2,20) Hex: For 12 seconds, spells cast by target foe take twice as long to cast.

7) Diversion [Domination Magic] (10,2,5) Hex: For 6 seconds, the next time target foe uses a skill, that skill takes an additional 41 seconds to recharge.

8) Blackout [Domination Magic] (10,1,10) Skill: For 5 seconds, all of target foe's skills are disabled, and all of your skills are disabled for 5 seconds.

Requirements (very important): The warrior has to have 2 rods that give both +10 energy (total 20nergy).

You have to keep switching between the rods (mesmer skills) and the axe&shield (warrior skills).

Objectives:
Disabling the skills of the enemy
-cast diversion -one skill "disabled" for 41 secs
-activate arcane conundrum
- build adrenaline with cleave or just attacking
-use disrupting shop to disable skill for 20 secs
-use dismember and then use axe rake tostop him from fleeing
-then kick him hard or start using the chain of actions again

Blackout could be used on any time, it depends on the given situation
could be used to save an ally from an enemy that is currently being heavy bombarded with air spells.

Rush (or sprint) is to help moving on the map (could save the game)

[Torm Shadowbane]

Carcassone-

About your build... Why take Cleave over Eviscerate? You can get more damage (albeit requiring a bit more adrenaline build-up) with Eviscerate (Elite) and Executioner's Strike. You can drop Dismember for Eviscerate because they both cause a deep wound.

The problem I have with Rush over Sprint is the fact that Rush requires adrenaline build-up. That can be some what problematic as you cannot always be certain you will have enough adrenaline, and more often than not you will always have enough energy for sprint.

I don't think this build would be very helpful to a team over the long run. When it comes to PvP a Warrior's main job is to be a consistent damage out put machine. A Warrior/Mesmer can be beneficial to a group easily, of course, with the right skills. For example a Sword Warrior using Illusionary Weapon for increased damage ability. Arcane Conundrum to slow down casting of enemy spells (makes them easier to interrupt with savage slash), Sympathetic Visage on the enemy Warriors main target, Shatter Enchantment to remove enemy enchantments, etc. Those are the type of skills I'd like to see a Warrior/Mesmer bring to a group.

Heh, but I see you use my little trick for extra energy as a warrior. I frequently switch between a focus and a shield. I go to the focus for extra energy, then switch back to the shield when I am under attack in Melee, then back to the Focus. I would suggest a focus over a staff because focuses can go up to 12 energy, which can boost your warrior's energy up to 32! (Believe me, it makes a difference.) The best part about switching between focus and shield is that you don't have to wait for the extra energy you get to regen. You automatically get it. So if you have 20 energy and equip the +12 energy focus you get 32 energy instantly.

I also am trying to acquire GOOD unmodded swords (or I might switch to Axes for my Warrior) so that I can switch between them in combat. I am leaning toward one with sundering on it, one with extension of crippling on it, one with elemental damage on it. Then switch between the three.

[Carcassone]

Thanks for the suggestions!!! I really appreciate it!!

When i was making the build i had also doubts related to Eviscerate and Sprint, but i preferred cleave because of damage output/low adrenaline relation and rush over sprint because of the energy issue.

also about illusionary weapon i didnt remember - thanks for the tip.


I will refine the build.

By the way i've posted in the thread "I despise the new trend of air elementalist" urging the community to embrace strategic thinking, using SWOT analysis, to determine the competitive factors of the Air elementalist buildand to counter it.

So I would appreciate your contribution.


Thanks for all.

[Hart]

First off, this whole thread is great; I really like reading strategy bits, and this seems to be very well written and thought out. Some suggestions from an experienced necromancer are below.


Alright, I dropped the E/N and went with a similar idea of a Curse / Death Magic Necro. Came up with this nasty little critter to add to the team.

Necro/Monk 5 Soul Reaping, 10 Curses, 10 Death Magic, 10 Healing Prayers
Lingering Curse (Elite)
Well of Suffering
Well of the Profane
Rigor Mortis
Mark of Pain
Malaise
Healing Breeze
Restore Life / Res Signet


This is a nice start. Lingering Curse is a great elite to use in this team build because it gives you multi-enchant removal, which will work very well against Aeromancers who depend on multiple elemental attunements to keep power costs down. Well of the Profane is great for KotH. Rigor Mortis will be great for your main target, cancelling Aegis and WaM mainly but also the various evade/block skills Warriors and Rangers use.

I would question the use of Well of Suffering; it is almost always more advantageous to use a Well of the Profane in situations where you might use Well of Suffering. WoS also requires a signifigant investment in Death magic which isn't used much in this build; I'd stick with Well of Profane and replace Well of Suffering with Rend Enchantments so you'll have a second multi-enchant removal. This gives your necro 3 enchantment removal skills, which is pretty heavy enchant removal, but still leaves 5 slots for other skills.

Mark of Pain is difficult to use in PvP because it requires a very specific set of conditions; your target has to be in the center of a group, has to be taking physical damage and the group has to stay nearby when they see
-37 (Mark of Pain) pop up on screen. I would go with a more all purpose curse which can be effectively used against a single target like Suffering - it's only 2 health degen, but it's AoE, affects the target (Mark of Pain only hits the surrounding foes, not the target himself) and is more difficult to remove because all the affected players get the icon on their screen and the purple bar for being near the target. Alternatively you could use a 'cover up' curse like Parasitic Bond - you cast Lingering Curse and the cover it up with Parasitic Bond to prevent spot enchant removal.

Malaise can be useful if you have an experienced necro using it well. The idea is to use it when the target has a LARGE amount of energy left, because it drops off when energy hits 0 and if you get the target down to 20 and they're experienced they'll simply remove any +energy equipment and drop to zero, then re-equip it. The -2 health regen is per foe though, so it's best to have something like Life Siphon on here to counter it - you use Life Siphon first, followed by Malaise which lasts longer, recharges faster and costs less to cast. Life Siphon could easily fit into the build where Healing Breeze is now, and provides the benefit of healing as well as dropping some degeneration on a foe.

If you made all of the above changes, you could easily go Curses/Blood at 10, Death at 5 (for Profane) and Soul Reaping at whatever's left - might be able to get 11 somewhere. Make sure to get the appropriate runes to raise the Blood to 12 for the 3rd pip on Life Siphon.


I also made modifications to one of the Monk/Necro's and the Elementalist/Monk as per your suggestion.

Monk/Necromancer 11 Divine Favor, 12 Healing Prayers, 6 Protection
Reversal of Fortune
Protective Spirit
Healing Breeze
Heal Other
Word of Healing (Elite)
Heal Party
Protective Bond
Blood Ritual

Just a word of advice: Blood Ritual is utter junk without points in blood. It costs 10 mana to cast and gives the target 8 mana total - 3 pips of regen is equivalent to 1 additional point of power per second, so 8 seconds = 8 power.

Even at its highest level you're looking at spending 10 power and 17% max health for 15 power - it's just not worth it. You might try Essence Bond instead, which will counter part of the power loss when the Protective Bond goes off.



Elementalist/Monk 5 Energy Storage, 10 Earth Magic, 10 Water Magic, 10 Protection Prayers
Ward Against Harm (Elite)
Ward Against Elements
Ward Against Melee
Protective Spirit
Eruption
Mend Ailment
Remove Hex
Restore Life/Res Signet

I'm thinking that Eruption would be less than useful here; if you've got 10 in Protection prayers anyway, I would go with Aegis as you'll get a similar effect for less power and you get the effect the instant you need it. Eruption only blinds on the 5th hit and most warriors are smart enough to get out of the way or preemptively request condition removal.

Hope this helps.

[Torm Shadowbane]

Hart-

You're amazing! Your suggestions I think will do wonders for the build. It really helps to get input from others like yourself. I really enjoy squeezing these eight team members to get maximum efficiency from them. Getting input from an experienced Mesmer would be wonderfully helpful as well.

Here is the team in it's current form, with your suggestions included Hart. (Keep in mind that no Runes or any other modifiers have been made on the Attributes. This is just the base 200.)


Warrior/Monk 10 Strength, 12 Axe Mastery, 8 Smiting
Eviscerate (Elite)
Executioner's Strike
Penetrating Blow
Axe Rake
Mend Ailment
Symbol of Wrath
Judge's Insight
Restore Life / Res Signet

Warrior/Monk 10 Strength, 12 Axe Mastery, 8 Smiting
Cleave (Elite)
Penetrating Blow
Executioner's Strike
Axe Twist
Mend Ailment
Convert Hexes
Judge's Insight
Restore Life

Warrior/Necromancer 10 Strength, 11 Swordsmanship, 10 Curses
Sever Artery
Hamstring
Savage Slash
Galrath Slash
Rend Enchantments
Rigor Mortis
Weaken Armor
Res Signet

Mesmer/Monk 12 Fast Casting, 12 Domination
Arcane Echo
Power Block (Elite)
Chaos Storm
Backfire
Power Leak
Power Spike
Black Out
Restore Life / Res Signet

Monk/??? 12 Divine Favor, 12 Healing Prayers, 3 Protection
Healing Breeze
Orison of Healing
Healing Touch
Word of Healing (Elite)
Healing Seed
Convert Hexes
Vengeance*
Aegis**

I added Vengeance to this build. I am sure a more useful spell could be added to this line up, so if anyone can think of one... let me know. But for now I have Vengeance as a place holder. In addition the Secondary Class is also in question. I really don't think the group needs more protection from Melee as it more than has it covered.

** The Elementalist/Monk now has Aegis and a more helpful spell might be added to this character.

Monk/???? 11 Divine Favor, 12 Healing Prayers, 6 Protection
Reversal of Fortune
Protective Spirit
Healing Breeze
Heal Other
Word of Healing (Elite)
Heal Party
Protective Bond
?????*

Same as the above Monk. A slot is open and secondary class is in question. This one is a protection and back-up healing Monk.

Elementalist/Monk 5 Energy Storage, 10 Earth Magic, 10 Water Magic, 10 Protection Prayers
Ward Against Harm (Elite)
Ward Against Elements
Ward Against Melee
Protective Spirit
Aegis*
Mend Ailment
Remove Hex
Restore Life/Res Signet

Eruption removed, Aegis added as per Halt's suggestion.

Necro/Monk 5 Soul Reaping, 10 Curses, 5 Death Magic, 12 Blood Magic
Lingering Curse (Elite)
Well of the Profane
Rend Enchantments*
Parasitic Bond*
Life Siphon*
Rigor Mortis
Malaise
Restore Life / Res Signet

All * indicate skills changed as per Halt's suggestions. The attributes changed as well. Some questions for Hart: Do the benefits of Life Siphon stack? For example: Do you get an additional +3 Health Regen if you cast it on more than one target (max of +10 Health Regen)? How useful is Soul Reaping in PvP? I have not had a chance to experience a Necromancer (although my next PvE character will be Necromancer/Ranger), and while I can see Soul Reaping very useful in PvE -- I have to call into question it's usefulness in PvP. (Unless, of course, it goes by deaths on the entire map and not just a radius.) I think the build would do nicely with +1 Head Item in Curses and a Minor Rune in Curses which would boost him up to 12 in both Blood Magic and Curses. I am thinking Parasitic Bond would be a good cover hex for Malaise, as you suggested, and Rigor Mortis. (Cover Hexes are annoying which is why I have two members of the team bringing complete hex removal spells.)

More comments and suggestions are welcome and needed.

[toor]

I heartily second Harts suggestions. Though I would question Life Siphon. Its not really a good dmg dealer or healer. And there is no point getting high BM if you are removing the blood for energy spell (the exact reason u needed blood magic).

What I would go with
E/N
Stat Distribution TBA: 10 Energy 12 Curses Rest In death.
Lingering Curse (Elite)
Well of the Profane
Rend Enchantment
Rigor Mortis
Malaise
Res Signet
Putrid Explosion (This thing can do huge dmg and with recent KotH matches ive gotten a new found appreciation for it).
Weaken Armor (since team is warrior happy) or Summon Bone Fiend (just for some more dmg, but u will prlly be short on corpses)

I know 3 Disenchants may seem really heavy. But if you ever played HoH you know that 2 Prot Spirits and 2 Healing Seeds is not uncommomn for a good team and Healing Breezes are always flying around everywhere.

Death Magic Also allows you to focus much more

[DutchSmurf]

Did anyone actually try Malaise, since as far as I know it won't make an E loose energy. An elementalist has energyregen of +4, with malaise he still has +2 left. So it won't let you help surviving the first wave.

[Hart]

Some questions for Hart: Do the benefits of Life Siphon stack? For example: Do you get an additional +3 Health Regen if you cast it on more than one target (max of +10 Health Regen)?

Yep. The +3 health regen will counter the -2 health regen from malaise and give you one spare pip of regen.


How useful is Soul Reaping in PvP?

Not terribly; I feel that it's not as awful as everyone says it is because the radius is HUGE, basically anything on your radar, so you almost always get the benefit. It's not as easy to see as the benefits of the other primary traits though; for instance, if you've got 10 in Energy Storage you get an extra 30 power. If you've got 10 in Soul Reaping, you get an extra 70+ power throughout the battle; but it comes in 10 point increments and you're busy doing other things so it's not nearly as noticable. The problem is that it only goes off when things die, so it's good for pushing hard toward victory when you are already winning but not much else, as the first man essentially means loosing the match unless you're outright lucky or the other team lacks skill and cohesion.


I think the build would do nicely with +1 Head Item in Curses and a Minor Rune in Curses which would boost him up to 12 in both Blood Magic and Curses.

That's about where I'd go with it. Probably minors for curses, blood, death, vigor and soul reaping with whatever headgear you want.


I am thinking Parasitic Bond would be a good cover hex for Malaise, as you suggested, and Rigor Mortis. (Cover Hexes are annoying which is why I have two members of the team bringing complete hex removal spells.)

I don't know that you really need a cover hex for Malaise; it's cheap and recharges quickly. If anything I'd use Malaise as the cover hex and consider doing something else with PB; though PB would be a good replacement for Life Siphon if you're looking to drop the Blood line as it tends to get shattered a lot.


I heartily second Harts suggestions. Though I would question Life Siphon. Its not really a good dmg dealer or healer. And there is no point getting high BM if you are removing the blood for energy spell (the exact reason u needed blood magic).

I've had a love/hate relationship with Life Siphon since I got Blood to 12. It's pretty lame with blood 11 or lower; but at 12 it's extremely powerful. It has a quick recharge, a moderate cost, and does around 66 unblockable damage while healing the user for 66 over time. Simply put, it's one of the most effective spells in the game and one of the eaisiest to use.

The problem is that in order to get the most out of it, your skill has to be at 12. This means you're either a primary necro or harshly limited in your options outside the blood line. Primary necros have to put up with Soul Reaping, which is subpar in PvP. It's a tough choice, but I'm still running Necro as my primary mainly because of this skill, Vamp Gaze and Shadow Strike which I'll just say are vastly underestimated for spike damage - think "ignores armor".


Putrid Explosion (This thing can do huge dmg and with recent KotH matches ive gotten a new found appreciation for it).

Putrid Explosion is nice. Well of the Profane is nice. Everything else in Death stinks. The main reason I don't like using it is because all of the animate spells and their associated enchants are total junk in PvP, and that's most of Death. The remainder are spells that use corpses to do useless things (consume corspse), Rotting Flesh which is as bad for you as it is for them, a few utility spells and Well of Suffering. Also, it's rare that you would benefit more from a Putrid Explosion than you would from a Well of the Profane. If anything I'd rather take Death Nova so I'll get some damage AND poison for less stat points invested. The poison itself is 120 damage total if left alone and can be aimed better IMO.


Did anyone actually try Malaise, since as far as I know it won't make an E loose energy. An elementalist has energyregen of +4, with malaise he still has +2 left. So it won't let you help surviving the first wave.

Correct, Malaise won't make anyone loose energy. It's used to make energy regen take a lot longer. For a warrior it's 0 regen, a ranger gets 1 pip or 1 energy every 3 seconds, and casters get 2 pips or 2 energy every 3 seconds. That's as opposed to 2/3s, 3/3s, and 4/3s normally. Over 30 seconds the Aeromancer will regen 20 power instead of 40 power. It makes it eaiser to keep any caster under control if they're regening at the same rate as a warrior; it's more pronounced for elementalists because their spells can cost so much to cast. You can read malaise as 'if opponent hits zero energy it will take them 15 seconds to regain enough energy to cast Lightning Strike'.

[Torm Shadowbane]

DutchSmurf-
You're right, but Malise isn't there to help the team to survive the first wave of attacks. It's there to help slow any subsequent waves and drain the monks energy. Lingering Curse will effectively cut the three monks in half turning their healing power into "one monk and a half" healing. Add three warriors to one target and they just won't be able to keep up with the healing, add to that the fact each of them will only have two arrows of regen and they will be out of energy quickly. Not to mention two Warriors will have 40% Armor Penetration, while the other has 20%.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'm considering them all and trying to figure out what would be best for the team. I'll post when I've made some more modifications. If anyone knows experienced Mesmers or Monks -- or hell we need more opinions from everyone -- get them to read this thread and post here.

[Torm Shadowbane]

Here are some quick changes I've made. * Notes Change in skill

Warrior/Monk 10 Strength, 12 Axe Mastery, 8 Smiting
Cleave (Elite)
Penetrating Blow
Executioner's Strike
Distracting Blow*
Mend Ailment
Convert Hexes
Judge's Insight
Restore Life

Warrior/Necromancer 10 Strength, 11 Swordsmanship, 10 Curses
Skull Crack (Elite)*
Hamstring
Savage Slash
Galrath Slash
Rend Enchantments
Rigor Mortis
Weaken Armor
Res Signet

Necro/Ranger 8 Soul Reaping, 12 Curses, 5 Death Magic, 9 Wilderness Survial
Lingering Curse (Elite)
Well of the Profane
Rend Enchantments
Rigor Mortis
Malaise
Quickening Zypher*
Troll Unguent*
Res Signet

Alright I dropped the Necromancer's secondary monk profession and added Ranger to it instead. (Interesting how he ended up with the same secondary profession he started with... heh.) After reading Hart's post in the other thread I took interest in his idea of using Quickening Zephyr. With the heavy enchantment removal, energy draining, of this build... adding Quickening Zephyr to it only makes sense and will boost it's effectiveness. (Now not only are Elementalists at 2 energy regeneration, but have lost all their enchantments, plus their spells cost more to cast.)

The above Sword Warrior didn't have an Elite, and Sever Artery causes bleeding which is a condition and easily removed. So I gave him Skull Crack as an Elite.

I removed Axe Twist from the Axe Warrior as the point of using Axe Twist would be for the weakness effect on Melees... but this build already has heavy Melee protection and it would benefit much more from Distracting Blow.

I am still left uncertain in regards to the Necromancer carrying Troll Unguent. I'd rather he not become someone who needs special attention from the Monks (due to sacrifice skills, plus health degeneration skills), but I am leaning that direction.

After some consideration I don't think the Putrid Explosion or other such skills would allow us to get MAXIMUM benefit from this character. I still don't feel this character has reached his full potential.

[this_barb]

I appreciate how indepth you went (how much time did you spend doing this?) but most (99.9%) of the air elementalists out there are horrible. To be a good air elementalist, there has to be more than 1 of you and you must be coordinated which takes a lot of practice. 1 Air Elementalist doesn't have the DPS to outdamage even a single healing monk unfortunately.

[Torm Shadowbane]

this_barb Thank you. I realize that Air Elementalists have to have extremely well coordination to pull off the build... but some can do it. Besides, the build here isn't only to counter Air Elementalists -- it's to be prepared for them, counter them, but also be flexible enough to handle just about any other team thrown their way. This group can handle warrior heavy teams, Elementalist heavy teams, monks, Mesmers, you name it they've got some way to at the very least survive it.

Think of any scenario in your mind and then put this team in there... They will find a way to counter it, survive it, or over turn it with their skills.

EDIT: To answer your question it's taken me some amount of time to fiddle through skills and try and think things through. I'd say anywhere between 5 to 10 hours total spent working on the build.

I'd really love to find some others to see this build in action. That'll be the real test and where the real fine tuning will take place.