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Nero The Nimble
01-06-2005, 04:00
I went to Tombs yesterday, first match was a 1v1, and we walked out to the match, did a tab through of the characters there, found that it was 2 necro players and the rest were henchies. My team was dilly dallying, thinkin no biggy just a henchy team, I tab onto the N/Mo figuring hell be our first target, considering theres no healer hench there. I notice him automatically untarget, meaning he died, before we even remotely came close to engaging them, so we finally charge in, and notice that these guys have about 15 minions, plus the henches. Needless to say they made short work of us. Now, I understand that if we had gone in quickly we would have mopped them up, as it seems they were just killing themselves and rezzing and making minions out of corpses, but what about a GvG battle where you can hide in the base and build up a huge army, or a team of ALL necro monks, building up massive armies, especially in a multiple team battle where you possibly have time to build up, is a necro SUPPOSED to be able to build up massive groups of minions without any corpse but their own, I mean, seems to me an all necro team could just build up extreme numbers of minions( if 2 could make 15, 8 could make 60+)

wargolchaos
01-06-2005, 04:06
Wow thats a good point. Well I guess that sucks for the opposing team then ehh...

majoho
01-06-2005, 07:43
How are they supposed to get corpses to build an army?

Emerald Fire
01-06-2005, 09:04
How are they supposed to get corpses to build an army?

One killed the other, made a minion and rezzed the guy, and vice versa. Kindly read before you ask a question. ^-^

Bravo
01-06-2005, 11:13
Blood Ritual (availability)
Description: Sacrifice 17% max health. For 8-13 seconds, target other ally gains energy regeneration of 3.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time: 2 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 2 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Blood Magic. Increases duration.
Skill Type: Enchantment Spell.

Means that it should take only 6 sacrifices to die (18 seconds - see later)

Vengeance (availability)
Description: Bring target dead ally back to life at full health and full energy. After 30 seconds, or if this enchantment is removed, the enchanted ally dies. Deaths while enchanted with Vengeance do not incur a death penalty.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time: 4 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 60 Seconds.
Linked Attribute None.
Skill Type: Enchantment Spell.

+

Contemplation of Purity (availability)
Description: Lose all enchantments. For each one lost, you gain 6-65 health, lose one hex, and lose one condition.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 1/4 of a Second.
Recharge Time: 5 Seconds.
Linked Attribute Divine Favor. Increases health recovered.
Skill Type: Skill.

= Dead again...

If your monk was an elementalist you could take:

Glyph of Renewal (availability)
Description: Your next spell recharges twice as fast as normal. This is an elite skill.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 1 Second.
Recharge Time: 15 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: None.
Skill Type: Glyph.


With a Ranger taking:

Quickening Zephyr (availability)
Description: Create a level 1-8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all skills recharge twice as fast as normal and cost 30% more energy to cast. This Spirit dies after 30-126 seconds.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 5 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 60 Seconds.
Linked Attribute Wilderness Survival. Increases Spirit's level and duration.
Skill Type: Nature Ritual.

To get vengence recharging every 15 seconds.

6 N/Mo
1 Mo/E
1 N/R (with reasonable soul reaping)

N/Mos kill themselves (staggered not all at once): 6 corpses 18 seconds.
N/R casts zephyr. (can be done simultaneously with ritual causing reduction in ritual recast time) And creates horrors/minions/fiends as fast as possible.
Mo/E uses glyph of renewal and vengence on the first N/mo, who raises the second with vengence then uses contemplation of purity. Chain continues: 12 corpses. By the time the last necro is raised (24 seconds later) the Mo/E has already recharged venegence and has already raised the first one again and most of the way to having a second vengence recharged => 1 extra corpse. 6 seconds later the first necro has recharged vengence so 6 more corpses. Mo/E casts light of dwayna to resurrect everyone for match. 19 corpses generated before the match is even supposed to have started.

The N/R could then take high death magic soul reaping and wilderness survival to take:

Healing Spring (availability)
Description: For 10 seconds, all allies in the area are healed for 15-51 health every 2 seconds. While activating this skill, you are easily interrupted.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time: 2 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 20 Seconds.
Linked Attribute Wilderness Survival. Increases health recovered.
Skill Type: Trap.

and

Verata's Sacrifice (availability)
Description: Sacrifice 15% max health. For 8-18 seconds, all undead allies gain 10 health regeneration. All conditions are removed from those allies and transferred to you.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time: 2 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 30 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Death Magic. Increases duration.
Skill Type: Spell.

also as a failsafe

Verata's Aura (availability)
Description: Sacrifice 33% max health. All hostile animated undead in the area become bound to you. Verata's Aura ends after 120-264 seconds. When Verata's Aura ends, you lose your bond with any undead bound to you. (50% failure chance with Death Magic attribute of 4 or less)
Energy Cost: 15
Activation Time: 3/4ths of a Second.
Recharge Time: 30 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Death Magic. Increases duration and prevents failure.
Skill Type: Enchantment Spell.

Between the soul reaping and the blood rituals from the other necromancers this guy shouldn't have any energy problems during the 'creation phase.'

With zephyr and healing spring the necromancer can heal his undead allies (and any blood ritual team mates) for the equivalent of +10 hp regeneration, and combined with verata's sacrifice you can keep the undead very healthy.

With only 2 more skills realistically available now (2 summoning spells to help speed the chain of events...) you could bring along the old faithful death nova taste of death combination. Heck your other necromancers could also join in the fun. With this many horrors/minions any target that doesn't run would be surrounded so bound to be hit by any and all death novas you plant on the minions/horrors or suiciding necros.

Assuming 10 wilderness survival, 8 soul reaping and 12 death magic (before equipment - probably take major death rune and death magic head scar) you would summon level 14 horrors/fiends. At 15 death magic they would probably become level 17 horrors/fiends and so capable of some quite nasty damage individually.

With so many other necromancers in the team, they would get a huge bonus from any deaths (including the animated dead) and so even with a 15% initial death penalty you could still probably maintain the energy output of an unaffected person, and presumably with so many /mos also e capable of reasonable healing/protection with the other skills in the other slots...

majoho
01-06-2005, 12:36
One killed the other, made a minion and rezzed the guy, and vice versa. Kindly read before you ask a question. ^-^
I didn't know you could kill an ally, sorry.

Serendipity
01-06-2005, 12:46
I didn't know you could kill an ally, sorry.

Not sure there is a way to kill an ally, but you can surely kill yourself. :)

MADMEE
01-06-2005, 15:56
you can not kill yourself with a sacrifice. look at the last paragraph on this page http://www.gwonline.net/page.php?p=132

iv also tried it. you dont die, just go down to 1 health. and if an ally killed a team mate id like to know how.

Nero The Nimble
01-06-2005, 17:29
well then I dont see how its possible that they had any minions at all, since there were no corpses, if they didnt kill themselves.

Dark Anima
02-06-2005, 00:52
Probably the necro used a skill that gives hp degen after he sacrificed most of his health. For example, Signet of Agony gives bleeding

Bravo
02-06-2005, 01:29
Tell that to claude... I once watched him kill himself to cast blood ritual on me. This was after the battle had finished and he had no hexes (purple down arrows) nor conditions (yellow down arrows) on him.

Made me laugh for a good few seconds...

Bravo
02-06-2005, 01:33
Blood Ritual (availability)
Description: Sacrifice 17% max health. For 8-13 seconds, target other ally gains energy regeneration of 3.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time: 2 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 2 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Blood Magic. Increases duration.
Skill Type: Enchantment Spell.

Means that it should take only 6 sacrifices to die (18 seconds - see later)

Vengeance (availability)
Description: Bring target dead ally back to life at full health and full energy. After 30 seconds, or if this enchantment is removed, the enchanted ally dies. Deaths while enchanted with Vengeance do not incur a death penalty.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time: 4 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 60 Seconds.
Linked Attribute None.
Skill Type: Enchantment Spell.

+

Contemplation of Purity (availability)
Description: Lose all enchantments. For each one lost, you gain 6-65 health, lose one hex, and lose one condition.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 1/4 of a Second.
Recharge Time: 5 Seconds.
Linked Attribute Divine Favor. Increases health recovered.
Skill Type: Skill.

= Dead again...

If your monk was an elementalist you could take:

Glyph of Renewal (availability)
Description: Your next spell recharges twice as fast as normal. This is an elite skill.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 1 Second.
Recharge Time: 15 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: None.
Skill Type: Glyph.


With a Ranger taking:

Quickening Zephyr (availability)
Description: Create a level 1-8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all skills recharge twice as fast as normal and cost 30% more energy to cast. This Spirit dies after 30-126 seconds.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 5 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 60 Seconds.
Linked Attribute Wilderness Survival. Increases Spirit's level and duration.
Skill Type: Nature Ritual.

To get vengence recharging every 15 seconds.

6 N/Mo
1 Mo/E
1 N/R (with reasonable soul reaping)

N/Mos kill themselves (staggered not all at once): 6 corpses 18 seconds.
N/R casts zephyr. (can be done simultaneously with ritual causing reduction in ritual recast time) And creates horrors/minions/fiends as fast as possible.
Mo/E uses glyph of renewal and vengence on the first N/mo, who raises the second with vengence then uses contemplation of purity. Chain continues: 12 corpses. By the time the last necro is raised (24 seconds later) the Mo/E has already recharged venegence and has already raised the first one again and most of the way to having a second vengence recharged => 1 extra corpse. 6 seconds later the first necro has recharged vengence so 6 more corpses. Mo/E casts light of dwayna to resurrect everyone for match. 19 corpses generated before the match is even supposed to have started.

The N/R could then take high death magic soul reaping and wilderness survival to take:

Healing Spring (availability)
Description: For 10 seconds, all allies in the area are healed for 15-51 health every 2 seconds. While activating this skill, you are easily interrupted.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time: 2 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 20 Seconds.
Linked Attribute Wilderness Survival. Increases health recovered.
Skill Type: Trap.

and

Verata's Sacrifice (availability)
Description: Sacrifice 15% max health. For 8-18 seconds, all undead allies gain 10 health regeneration. All conditions are removed from those allies and transferred to you.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time: 2 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 30 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Death Magic. Increases duration.
Skill Type: Spell.

also as a failsafe

Verata's Aura (availability)
Description: Sacrifice 33% max health. All hostile animated undead in the area become bound to you. Verata's Aura ends after 120-264 seconds. When Verata's Aura ends, you lose your bond with any undead bound to you. (50% failure chance with Death Magic attribute of 4 or less)
Energy Cost: 15
Activation Time: 3/4ths of a Second.
Recharge Time: 30 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Death Magic. Increases duration and prevents failure.
Skill Type: Enchantment Spell.

Between the soul reaping and the blood rituals from the other necromancers this guy shouldn't have any energy problems during the 'creation phase.'

With zephyr and healing spring the necromancer can heal his undead allies (and any blood ritual team mates) for the equivalent of +10 hp regeneration, and combined with verata's sacrifice you can keep the undead very healthy.

With only 2 more skills realistically available now (2 summoning spells to help speed the chain of events...) you could bring along the old faithful death nova taste of death combination. Heck your other necromancers could also join in the fun. With this many horrors/minions any target that doesn't run would be surrounded so bound to be hit by any and all death novas you plant on the minions/horrors or suiciding necros.

Assuming 10 wilderness survival, 8 soul reaping and 12 death magic (before equipment - probably take major death rune and death magic head scar) you would summon level 14 horrors/fiends. At 15 death magic they would probably become level 17 horrors/fiends and so capable of some quite nasty damage individually.

With so many other necromancers in the team, they would get a huge bonus from any deaths (including the animated dead) and so even with a 15% initial death penalty you could still probably maintain the energy output of an unaffected person, and presumably with so many /mos also e capable of reasonable healing/protection with the other skills in the other slots...

Or even quicker to use infuse health (basically sacrifice 50% current health - saves 3 castings of blood ritual and provides a powerful heal... combine this with heal area for actual combat and at least one of the necros can sacrifice life (albeit not a real sacrifice I believe for the purposes of 'sacrificing') to heal another and then heal himself with a heal area...)

codemeister
02-06-2005, 02:08
what i think yall fail to realize is that they have death penalty, so the more they do it the weaker they become

Dark Anima
02-06-2005, 08:11
Using Vengeance allows them to ressurect and die without incurring multiple death penalties. The only death penalty would be the -15% from the 1st death.

This thread looks like it belongs in the necro strat topic. This site's page on life sacrificing does state that you can't die from it. However, I just tested it out and apparantly you can. So either it is a bug(belongs here), or the page is wrong(belongs elsewhere).

Nero The Nimble
04-06-2005, 02:48
even if they do have a max dp, that many friggin level 17 bone minions (which they were) just mow right through people.

Chantal Dubois
04-06-2005, 06:15
Probably the necro used a skill that gives hp degen after he sacrificed most of his health. For example, Signet of Agony gives bleeding

The bleeding would do it, but I find this one quite interesting as otherwise, you can't sacrifice yourself to death as others stated (you're left with 1 hp). I honestly don't know if that is an "oops, we forgot a necro could suicide with bleeding" or by design.

Emerald Fire
04-06-2005, 07:50
For those that reminded me about the ally thing -- Sorry, my mistake. I don't PvP. It was just a suggestion on my part. :oops:

I have killed my necro by accident; did it today in fact with Defile Flesh. I wasn't paying attention to my health bar and I had just killed something that was attacking me, and I used the skill on a summit sage that was concentrating on the henchies and I hit that button and poof I was dead. :lol: {It was also the last bugger in the screen}

Chantal Dubois
04-06-2005, 18:04
I'm going to post this link here, as it's what this whole thread is about, too.

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=349345&page=1&pp=10