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stilted
02-06-2005, 04:57
For example...take a look at mango hydras ... when you consider the fact that monster spells are lv 12 ( look at some hex spells casted by monsters, and you'll see that the value is the same as the ones listed on this site for lv 12), how can they do so much dmg, or specifically, so much more elemental dmg? hydras do 200 a hit with fireball? 200 with meteor? 200 with inferno? fire storm from fissure elementalists doing 100+ a hit? even with my lv 15 fire magic i can't do this much dmg to "bug monsters" that have extremely low/negative resistance to fire....

:confused: ?

Melly
02-06-2005, 04:58
Maybe they have 100 attribute points spent in fire magic? :D

Nobleman Azure
02-06-2005, 05:01
Their level doesn't indicate that theyre really gonna be as strong as the same level human. Theyre stronger to make up for their lack of brains.

Efflixi
02-06-2005, 05:07
Well if it's 8v2 or 3 they better be doing 100+ damage. :p

Mystic Tiger
02-06-2005, 05:24
Monster damage is calculated based on monster level. Since monsters specialize only in 1 specific type of skill, they are allowed to exceed the level 12 cap that players have.

Hurin66
02-06-2005, 05:26
You forget that Hydras and almost all mobs past the desert are higher level then
you, and level is accounted for in the formual which determines how much damage you take.

SoliS
02-06-2005, 05:41
not to mention that said mobs are also typically smaller than you 8-person party.

if they are larger than that, then you have a "leroy" on your team. (one who pulls many monsters)

theres a WoW video of someone called leroy doing just that... check the order of DII forums for a link

stilted
02-06-2005, 06:38
Monster damage is calculated based on monster level. Since monsters specialize only in 1 specific type of skill, they are allowed to exceed the level 12 cap that players have.

no....i stated in my first post...go get a mesmer/necro monster to hex you and stuff,and write down the value of that hex ( ex : elite skill of flesh golem), then go to this site and you'll notice that the value of their spell is the same value as the ones listed as lv 12 on this site. do you see mesmers with that -5 regen spell that lasts for 30 sec? no?

stilted
02-06-2005, 06:40
You forget that Hydras and almost all mobs past the desert are higher level then
you, and level is accounted for in the formual which determines how much damage you take.

4 lvs is "much higher level" eh...

also i'd like to note that the lv 12 or something hydras ( before yak's bend, i believe) can do close to 100 dmg with their elementary spells :confused:

salaboB
02-06-2005, 06:43
no....i stated in my first post...go get a mesmer/necro monster to hex you and stuff,and write down the value of that hex ( ex : elite skill of flesh golem), then go to this site and you'll notice that the value of their spell is the same value as the ones listed as lv 12 on this site.
Smite crawlers in the underworld do more than max level 12 damage from their shield of judgement, so some enemies definately have skills above level 12. I'd be very surprised if hydras weren't one of them.

DeadUserTyping
02-06-2005, 06:52
also i'd like to note that the lv 12 or something hydras ( before yak's bend, i believe) can do close to 100 dmg with their elementary spells :confused:

I also noticed it to..hit me for 97 then it died. Must of not liked me healing that darn warrior.

garce
02-06-2005, 06:56
I was wondering why the Hydras outside of Augury Rock were hitting my pyromancer/mesmer (in full Amnoon Oasis pyro armor) for 209 damage per fireball. Seems a bit much considering they all seem to aim at me until they're engaged or distracted by a warrior.

It also bugs me that when I try to "Pheonix" or "Fireball" an unsuspecting monster, they charge me and I end up overshooting and not doing any damage. If I try to evade a projectile aimed at me I get nailed every time - doesn't matter if I'm 30 yards from where the shot was originally targetted - I'm getting hit.

Not a problem and I've adapted, but getting nailed with three unavoidable 200+ damage fireballs within a few seconds makes a person sit back and wonder (and really appreciate Illusion of Weakness).

Edit: BTW, my pyro elementalist was lvl 18 when taking 209dmg per hydra fireball, so I doubt that level difference had a huge impact on the damage I took.

SonOfRah
02-06-2005, 06:57
there are a couple of reasons why you get hit for large numbers. And no, monsters can't get more than 15 attr.

1) spell baseline is determined by your level (if you cast the spell). its 3*level. since monsters are generally higher than you, they have an advantage this way.
2) you have low armor. Look at the hydra's in the desert. All lvl 20+, whilst you are still using some pretty low armor.

the higher the baseline is, the more armor you need so that you will recieve 1:1 damage. since they have a high baseline, and you have a low amount of armor (which is less than their baseline) - then you take extra damage.

stilted
02-06-2005, 09:35
there are a couple of reasons why you get hit for large numbers. And no, monsters can't get more than 15 attr.

1) spell baseline is determined by your level (if you cast the spell). its 3*level. since monsters are generally higher than you, they have an advantage this way.
2) you have low armor. Look at the hydra's in the desert. All lvl 20+, whilst you are still using some pretty low armor.

the higher the baseline is, the more armor you need so that you will recieve 1:1 damage. since they have a high baseline, and you have a low amount of armor (which is less than their baseline) - then you take extra damage.

i don't think armor matters for me as a E/N..because our armors aren't +resistance to elemental attacks....and i was usingi an aueoramancer 60 DF set ... so unless there's better armor than the 1.5k/15k set :o ?

Digital Bath
02-06-2005, 10:00
Man I hate hydras. No matter how far or how fast I run, I will still get nailed by their darn meteors (usually 2). All of a sudden I am reduced to rubble, getting back up, then blown up by the 3 fireballs heading at me and everyone else. In a matter of seconds sometimes, everyone is dead. What I also hate about them, is how they just *pop* up outta the desert from outta nowhere. One second the area right in front of you is clear, the next a lvl 26 boss and his 2 cronies are wailing away on you. :mad:

AnarkiNet
02-06-2005, 10:04
i wonder if "virtual level" has anything to do with this...
when i first ascended and got my full knights armor, hydras did something close to 100-120 dmg to me per hit...i have over 720k exp right now and get hit for 65-70 damage per fireball/meteor. I'm still lvl 20, but have enough exp that i would be at a much higher lvl if the cap wasnt 20.

stilted
02-06-2005, 10:05
i wonder if "virtual level" has anything to do with this...
when i first ascended and got my full knights armor, hydras did something close to 100-120 dmg to me per hit...i have over 720k exp right now and get hit for 65-70 damage per fireball/meteor. I'm still lvl 20, but have enough exp that i would be at a much higher lvl if the cap wasnt 20.

why do warriors have s omuch elemental resistance? what stats does your armors give anyways?

Digital Bath
02-06-2005, 10:11
why do warriors have s omuch elemental resistance? what stats does your armors give anyways?

I thought Warriors were loaded with Phys Resis and Rangers were the ones loaded with Elemental Resis...?

salaboB
02-06-2005, 11:19
I thought Warriors were loaded with Phys Resis and Rangers were the ones loaded with Elemental Resis...?
Warriors have high armor and even higher physical armor.

Rangers have medium-high armor, and a huge bonus against elemental.

stilted
02-06-2005, 11:58
Warriors have high armor and even higher physical armor.

Rangers have medium-high armor, and a huge bonus against elemental.

armor does not reduce elemental dmg...does it? i thought only + ele / air/fire/earth/air df does.......?

Vicious Veratias
02-06-2005, 14:21
the tactic i use against hydras is get close(not charge in) take a hit from a meteor or two, and my other teamies i try to get them hit by a few too intentionally so i do not take all the damage and am to weak to fight and protect them. I then back up let them come to us, because it takes hydras a long recharge time to use meteor again, so after they use it they are not too strong... You just have to play smart and know when to step back, recharge then beat the hell outta them. It's not THAT hard..

Nightmare The Dark
02-06-2005, 14:40
I never really found it that hard either, pretty simple once they use that initial meteor...their armor is kinda weak so melee/physical attacks work great for them...Gryphin's on the other hand are another story...lol...and oh god the Sand Worms!

Hurin66
02-06-2005, 15:17
4 lvs is "much higher level" eh...

also i'd like to note that the lv 12 or something hydras ( before yak's bend, i believe) can do close to 100 dmg with their elementary spells :confused:

Actually they cant, i dont know what you used to test this but from what i remember they have at most 1 ele spell, and with my W/mo and the 50al
armor travveling to yaks at around lvl 10-14 i was taking about 50dmg.

SonOfRah
02-06-2005, 15:43
Actually they cant, i dont know what you used to test this but from what i remember they have at most 1 ele spell, and with my W/mo and the 50al
armor travveling to yaks at around lvl 10-14 i was taking about 50dmg.
They can....well, thats if you read closely with his *around* 100 damage.

casters have around 30AL at that point in the game, and hydra's are level 10 (baseline of 30).

With 80+16 armor I take 27 damage from their meteor. At 56 armor I would take 54 damage. At 36 armor I would take 76.368 damage and at 30 armor I would take 85 damage.

Which, is around 100 damage.

Since the baseline is 30 and your armor is 30, that means that its 1:1 damage. In other words, the meteor is dealing 85 listed damage. This is the exact same as having a fire attribute of 11. Meteor at 11 fire is 84 damage.

Thus we know that the level 10 hydra's are running around with a fire attribute of 11.

The 1 damage off is due to a rounding error from working backwards. The damage that you recieve is actually rounded, which thus means you get an error when you try to work backwards (as I just did).

To check:
damage = base*2^(baseline-armor/40) = 84*2^(-1.65) = 26.76 -> which is then rounded to 27 damage which is exactly what I took (at 96 armor).

The moral of the story?

Don't discount damage. There is a very good reason monsters deal the damage that they can do, and the damage equation can show it exactly.


edit://
now if the casters were using the 15AL armor instead of the 30Al one, then the story is a bit different.

damage = base*2^(baseline-armor/40) = 84*2^(0.375) = 109 damage -> which is also around 100 damage. Sounds like he was definately using the 15AL armor *grin* ;)

Accaris
02-06-2005, 15:43
I think the challenge level in this game (along with drops and experience)should be scaled according to the number of people in your party. I understand why missions might require a party, but I don't like the idea of standard areas being impossible to solo for the vast majority of characters. If there's 6 people in a party, sure, have Hydras dish out 200 damage in just a few seconds... but if there's only one person, that's definitely unfair.

Tortoise
02-06-2005, 16:13
First Warriors have high normal armor rating (which counts for all sorts of attacks, elementals as well) and get bonusses for physical. My 1.5k gladiator has (if i remember correctly) 80armor +20against physical.

Now for the hydras, the trick is just to equip the right spells. Protection spells are great against higher lvl monsters! Use mantle of protection (in stead of dealing 100 damage, they will only deal 25) or protective spirit (50 damage instead of 100). Combine those with some other protection skills for a great way to keep the amount of damage dealt at bay... If you know you'll encounter hydras, you just need to adjust you skills accordingly.

stilted
02-06-2005, 22:08
First Warriors have high normal armor rating (which counts for all sorts of attacks, elementals as well) and get bonusses for physical. My 1.5k gladiator has (if i remember correctly) 80armor +20against physical.

Now for the hydras, the trick is just to equip the right spells. Protection spells are great against higher lvl monsters! Use mantle of protection (in stead of dealing 100 damage, they will only deal 25) or protective spirit (50 damage instead of 100). Combine those with some other protection skills for a great way to keep the amount of damage dealt at bay... If you know you'll encounter hydras, you just need to adjust you skills accordingly.

Wow, and to think that rangers are the best tankers vs ele :p

Cartigan
02-06-2005, 22:11
Stick a spell breaker on you, that will leave you only open to inferno