Farming. A solution or THE solution?

[Lucille Drako]

OK, time for my two pence.

I have finsihed the game twice with completely different builds and have got a third character exploring pre-sear. I really love the PvE game, but now having played through it about six times its getting a little stale.

I just managed to buy my guild a sigil, and have 27K in the bank. I did this by selling every single crafting material I came across. I have a full set of minor runes in each of my two characters' droknors' armour.

I have changed profession on my warrior from necro to monk, as it was necessary to keep myself alive through the last few islands. and oddly, I have been enjoying the Wa/Mo playability. My primary is a ranger/ele, soon to change to R/Ne

I have logged about 350 hours of PvE

Now I'm nearly done with PvE and want to start playing PvP and GvG a lot more... but I still need to unlock runes for my characters, and of course, money so I can buy the 15K armour sets- If I can't farm... what CAN I do? is it suddenly LAW that I have to delete my characters and start again from scratch because Anet "balanced" the game? Thats Bloody unfair, plus it would be extremely tedious. I think the only solution is something that has already been touched upon in another proposed addition to guild halls... the "wave" attack of monsters game type for guild members- to be customisable monsters and amounts set by the gild leader... Although they DO need to give XP and drops. There is a distinct lack of guild activities in general. This focussed farming would be excellent fun- especially if mob spawn locations were random around your guild hall, and it made you learn your hall inside out for GvG home matches.

Money in this game exists to make things fun and purchaseable. Limiting availability of anything.. being that a "rare" superior rune or simply cash is a stupid idea. Talk of an "economy" where money becomes worth nothing, is pure stupidity- the money IS IMAGINARY! In time, everyone who plays as much as I do will have 1,000,000 maximum in the bank. the fact is simply that there is nothing really good to spend it on.

the more limitations imposed, the more farming spots nerfed = the MORE farming people are FORCED to do to get the stuff they want for PvP, and I can finally SEE that arguement...

While I was a dedicated PvE'er thinking that I would be able to get one up on the PvP competition by playing the game to completion, and unlocking all my runes, and being a bit narked that PvP'ers seemed to get everything by default on a plate, Now I see that perhaps it wasn't so clear cut. I've finished the PvE quests, explored nearly every square inch of the map, (twice) I've played more hours on this game in a month than I would usually play in a year, and I STILL only got about 5% further (towards getting the best weapons and runes), after finishing the game, than I would have by starting a premade...

Now I must admit that playing through the game unlocks about 80% of everything you want for pvp, but it seriously is not enough for a lot of people. I really enjoy the difficulty of capturing a skill I want to try in PvP by going back to PvE, and hunting some evil monster.. hehe. But RUNES and cash is another story.

This game does seem heavily biased towards PvP, which in itself is not a bad thing, and while I have previously been advocating the PvE'ers rights, now I'm on the other foot, I can truly see the PvP'ers frustrations at a game that forces you to farm to unlock the very best of equipment. That in itself is not a truly bad thing- but what IS bad, is removing the players ability to farm things if they really want. In a game that doesn't spawn monsters once in an instance, there has to be some way for players to get to a state where they might be able to farm an easily accessable spot (feeling achievement when they find something they want) and taking it away solves nothing. In fact- I really think nerfing farming locations is more likely to drive people away from the game if farming is what they want to do, or feel the need to do before playing PvP.

the other thing is that this excess of money is a GOOD thing- would it not FEEL nice to HAVE tons of cash?

oh... and I have had four superior runes unlocked so far.. ALL of which failed to salvage. WTF am I supposed to do to GET the bloody runes I need for my PvE characters??? I'll tell you- FARM to get more runes, or FARM to make money to BUY the runes from other players. What makes it worse is the areas I farmed for these runes are now nerfed, and I can't farm anywhere i know any more.


OK, last summing up chunk to wall of text...

Farming is something some people enjoy doing. Some people will always farm, no matter how much Anet nerfs things. The solution is to create a customisable farming location for high level players who want to accellerate their "stuff" aquisition in PvP- like a "wave attack" game in Guild halls.

It would make PvE'ers happy- (something to do in the guild hall other than GvG)

It would make the PvP'ers happy- (somewhere to finally GET the runes and stuff if they work hard for it)

It would even make the Devs happy- because the two factions in the community are not going to continue *****ing and whining about the balancing alterations you make to the ingame mobs, when they can easily farm them in their guild hall...

You could even have unlockable mobs (as previosly suggested by someone else) and that could be implemented by having to skill capture from the boss of the mob type that you want to add to the list of mobs you can play against. I think there is a boss mob of every type in the game, and if not, you can stuff some down in the underworld, or out in the explorable areas- like the bone dragon out in majestys rest.

All you'd need to do was to make perfect weapons drop with the 10th wave of mobs, major runes with the 15th, and superiors with the 25th wave- vs maybe 25 mobs spawning on the map in multiple locations. It shouldn't be IMPOSSIBLE either- and some level of difficulty customisability on behalf of the leader should be in place too.

Either that, or simply allow the leader to choose the number, type and level of mob to face in the guild hall (perhaps with up to three different types of mobs to choose from- some which may be hostile to each other, because THAT would be truly hilarious, and make for countless hours of sitting by the campfire, placing wagers on whether the skelton knights are gonna whup the arse of the mursaat, 5 on 2)(and the type of mob could denote the type of drop- as already set by the game parameters)


Why not? considering the enormity of the latest update- to program in this guild functionality would be a small task by comparison that aids in your efforts to balance the game

Why not?

[Cordio Muffinhead]

this is not a bad idea.
Tiyuri recommended using the invasion...
But having runes and stuff for PvPers to get...
Is a really good idea.

I also like the betting on monsters idea...
Having them fight each other for the hell of it...

This eliminates the grind that PvPers are so avidly against.
Maybe a rune sequence like this.

Minor = every 5 levels
Major = every 10 levels
Superior = every 20 levels

This eliminates the grind, while still allowing them to have fun.
Congrats, but I think that Tiyuri's invasion idea...
Should definitely get through, even without this stuff...

[Tiyuri]

yup already suggested something like that, perhaps you want to add your ideas/support etc to this thread

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?p=3494246&posted=1#post3494246

because i've linked the devs to it.

[Cordio Muffinhead]

I know you've suggested it.
And that all of us from that thread, recommended that you send it to ArenaNet.
Which you claim to have done, but maybe not the right spot...

But I like this rune idea, for those PvPers who enjoy complaining.

Thats why I credited you.
Great idea Tiyuri, good improvement Lucille.
It doesn't matter as much to me, I am not too fond of PvP.

I like Tiyuri's idea. A lot.

[Lucille Drako]

thankys tiyuri for not flaming me instantly- I wasn't trying to steal your ideas- simply expand upon them. I think you wanted no xp or drops from the mobs, and hadn't really thought much about structure of how it might work.

About half my post is about other stuff and half about the wave attack game type. I'll post a shortened version on your thread as well though.. cheers.

[Crunk Monkey]

I ABSOLUTELY agree with your general points. After this last nerf, I litterally almost quit the game. I spent 30 hours playing a monk, healing people in pve and getting yelled at by dozens of ignorant and obnoxious noobs just so that I could get a build for farming flesh golems, and an hour before I was done they killed the farming spot. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I don't know about your solution (although it does sound promising), but I am definitely a person who absolutely has to have all the uber rare items in a game to feel satisifed with his characters. I didn't even pvp a single time in retail until I got 15k armor for my wo/mo, two super runes, an eternal shield, and a ridiculous sword. After I saw the gear that pvp players get for spending two minutes in character creation, I almost threw up. If this mistreatment of people like me continues, I'm definitely quitting and never coming back.

[Tiyuri]

Wasnt about credit mate :P Just wanted to keep all relative comments in one thread so they arnt missed, i got a reply from ANet saying thank you for your opinion - but it seems they didnt really even read my submission because IN the post I talked about posting it on forums, and his reply was "why dont you try posting on some forums, blablabla"

As for the rune idea, being able to just create waves to farm kinda makes things a little 'cheap' in my opinion, i mean there will be some people who will just sit there for hours and hours farming waves, that sucks. The waves should get harder and harder until you die, a fun minigame, played for minigame specific points, not to rectify any of the other problems the game may have.

anyway thats my opinion :P
But yea lets try and keep things in one thread

[SilentMoon]

but it seems they didnt really even read my submission because IN the post I talked about posting it on forums, and his reply was "why dont you try posting on some forums, blablabla"

Could this be... that Arenanet have a subtle way of sending back preformated answers that look like they've been made for you?
*shivers to the thought*
Because... I think everytime I've read a post by someone reporting an answer from them, it had that line in it. "Post on fansites forums". And in your case it sort of fell flat since that's precisely what you told them you had done. Hum...

Call me a paranoid, but I don't like this. >_<

[Galavorn]

Do you guys really think ArenaNet wants you to play Guild Wars after you have bought it? They could invest in developer's salaries in order for you to play longer and use their bandwidth, or they could pay the developers less and save on bandwidth costs. It would be different if they charged a monthly fee.

[Tiyuri]

how about if we dont continue to play guildwars, we wont buy the expansions?

[Galavorn]

how about if we dont continue to play guildwars, we wont buy the expansions?

How about you quit GW, then an expansion comes out and you think "Wow, this will be great and fix everything I didn't like", and buy it?

[Tiyuri]

Could this be... that Arenanet have a subtle way of sending back preformated answers that look like they've been made for you?
*shivers to the thought*
Because... I think everytime I've read a post by someone reporting an answer from them, it had that line in it. "Post on fansites forums". And in your case it sort of fell flat since that's precisely what you told them you had done. Hum...

Call me a paranoid, but I don't like this. >_<

What perticularly irritated me, was that the e-mail came back in 2 parts. One labeled auto selected/automated, and one that was supposed to be from a member of staff, it was the member of staff one that told me to post in the forums :/

It looks very much like they're both automated to me :/


here's the e-mail:
http://img239.echo.cx/img239/1691/email1zu.jpg

[glittersores]

I agree with many of your frustrations.

One of the things that ticks me off is how hard I work to try and get runes...I've had 5 very nice superior runes slip right through my fingers...as you have. My suggestion towards this major problem would be to create some sort of rune extracting kit that doesn't fail. This is one of the most frustrating and horrible things I've encountered in game.

While I enjoy your suggestion I don't really want to have to fight waves of monsters for loot...essentially that's what you do by farming anyways, even if it would be guranteed. I'd like to see quests that reward class based runes, or collectors. Something along that line, it wouldn't have to be entirely painless, so long as it was guranteed. I see absolutely no benefit in having it so difficult to obtain runes. It's not a good time sink, it's not fun, and you don't even get targeted runes you need unless you're lucky. Even then your excitement can quickly be replaced by staring at the screen aghast at the 11 tanned hides you just salvaged from your superior rune of whatever. Honestly I find the entire system to be a little bogus and unnecessary, but if it's there it shouldn't be so irritating. Really...what's the point?

[omniviper]

I agree with many of your frustrations.

One of the things that ticks me off is how hard I work to try and get runes...I've had 5 very nice superior runes slip right through my fingers...as you have. My suggestion towards this major problem would be to create some sort of rune extracting kit that doesn't fail. This is one of the most frustrating and horrible things I've encountered in game.

While I enjoy your suggestion I don't really want to have to fight waves of monsters for loot...essentially that's what you do by farming anyways, even if it would be guranteed. I'd like to see quests that reward class based runes, or collectors. Something along that line, it wouldn't have to be entirely painless, so long as it was guranteed. I see absolutely no benefit in having it so difficult to obtain runes. It's not a good time sink, it's not fun, and you don't even get targeted runes you need unless you're lucky. Even then your excitement can quickly be replaced by staring at the screen aghast at the 11 tanned hides you just salvaged from your superior rune of whatever. Honestly I find the entire system to be a little bogus and unnecessary, but if it's there it shouldn't be so irritating. Really...what's the point?

i share the same sorrow. I've had 4 superiors get by me though... It's like everytime i get a rune, I breathe in hard and take a deep breath, corss my fingers, do the rain dance etc hoping that the rune doesn't turn into a pile of cloth or whatever

[Lucille Drako]

Galavorn- Thats a fairly callous viewpoint (and fairly accurate on most modern business models)

However, I prefer to delude myself and others into believeing in the good and inherent wonderfullness of someone committed to releasing a massively multiplayer game in todays commerciallised world, that didn't choose to charge fees in the first place. Someone like that must be the kind of developer and games designer that we as a community have to have 100% faith in.. and support them unflaggingly...

Right up until they bite us in the arse.

As far as I can see there is no reason to believe the developers are not listening or acting on our gravest concerns about the game- every major flaw I've read about and seen on here has been fixed in various updates.

My (and tiyuri's) suggestion is simply an important way in which to KEEP players interest, and to develop the fan base. and what other way that to be able to say "our community loves us, because we try hard to give them what they ask for"

And there certainly should be XP and drops on waves of mobs- it does not cheapen the gametype in the slightest, and is a fix for lots of people's issues. No xp and drops would not make it a fix for a lot of people, and also would probably make it lose its long term appeal. If you are seriously a player that enjoys playing a mission with henchies and losing 7/8 drops, then I can't help you!! hehe. Besides- farming in guild halls is no different on the whole from farming individually- its just more sociable and fun, and more easily accessable.

[Lucille Drako]

as for my sugestion that the waves of mobs should give drops- if you don't like that because you are PvE you don't have to pick them up? or another solution is for:

dropping monsters wave game (10 player maximum) = 150 gold entry per person to play- choice of mobs, and numbers at each level- for focussed farming and skill testing

non-dropping monsters (15 player maximum) = 25 gold entry per person to play- waves start at 20 mobs, each wave increases by 1 and new wave spawned when boss mob of the group killed, choice of monsters, no drops, but level you reached vs enemy type "X" on a leader board on your guild hall wall. If you survive 20 waves you get 10K xp each (40 mobs spawned at once)

Dropping monsters carnage game (30 player maximum) 10 gold entry per person and leader chooses up to 3 enemy types, and the numbers to spawn (maximum of 30 of each type) Hold the fort/hill/hall room against all at once. scaleable Xp reward from 100 to 10K on difficulty of mobs chosen, awarded on survival. (vs 30 dwarves, 30 centaurs and 30 minotaurs all level 12 for example= 100XP each// 90 lvl 2 grawls/scorpions/rock monsters vs 8 human players = 100xp each // 90 lvl 24 hydras/minos/flesh golums vs 30 humans= 1,000xp etc)

and the kicker is...... the gold goes into the guild hall storage coffers to spend or redistribute as the benevolent leader sees fit. (maybe future upgrades to the halls)

another problem it could potentially fix is to add another fun way for people to gain xp to grind out the additional levels required so they can buy ALL the skills.. gotta have them all.. gotta hav.... (changing your 2ndary profession means you need to grind out billions of xp to get enough skill points to buy everything- over 75 levels above lvl 20? Each level getting further and further away? you gotta be kidding me)

[Hurin66]

Ummmm, i dont see where you are coming from, there is too much money in this game and not enough money sinks.

[Vyper]

Do you guys really think ArenaNet wants you to play Guild Wars after you have bought it? They could invest in developer's salaries in order for you to play longer and use their bandwidth, or they could pay the developers less and save on bandwidth costs. It would be different if they charged a monthly fee.
Where do you get your basis? Probably the same place you remove wastes from your body. YES they want you to keep playing. If they didn't, A: they wouldn't cater the build updates to what we would like to see in the game B: their reps wouldn't wander these boards listening to our ideas and problems with the game C: they wouldn't be making expansions.

[Galavorn]

Where do you get your basis? Probably the same place you remove wastes from your body. YES they want you to keep playing. If they didn't, A: they wouldn't cater the build updates to what we would like to see in the game B: their reps wouldn't wander these boards listening to our ideas and problems with the game C: they wouldn't be making expansions.

Both of these things give their game a better rep so people buy it. And after people buy it, it's better for those people to quit and stop using ArenaNet's bandwidth.

[Vyper]

Both of these things give their game a better rep so people buy it. And after people buy it, it's better for those people to quit and stop using ArenaNet's bandwidth.
Fine then. Stop playing, shut your mouth, and get off the boards. This site is for people who LIKE the game, not griefing pessimists like you.

[Lucille Drako]

Ummmm, i dont see where you are coming from, there is too much money in this game and not enough money sinks.

you're completely right if you are a PvP'er and held the HoH a few times in a row. Also the PvP'ers seem to now also get runes and weapons dropped that they can sell- (ouch) to the rest of us.


if you are a "pure PvE'er" and this is the kind of person to whom money is important- then by the time you finish the game with one character (taking your time, but no farming) you will still only have about 20-50K in the bank. (after buying one set of droknors 7K armour, but no weopons or other sets of armour)

consider that a lifetime of saving.. not a great deal of cash that I can see. And I would hazard a guess that the majority of players get less than that.

There are no money sinks for the ascended lvl 20's roaming around in 15K armour, who were built for PvP. and to be honest... there doesn't really need to be.

This is a hybrid game between PvE and PvP, and cash simply is not that important- its there to spend on the silly 15K armours and have fun with, not hoard and say "theres not enough money sinks in the game"

I suggest you start a thread titled "post your /age and wealth here" and see what results you get. (mine would be /age-350 hours over three characters wealth 27K and a guild hall that I paid 60K towards.)

[bruenor]

Both of these things give their game a better rep so people buy it. And after people buy it, it's better for those people to quit and stop using ArenaNet's bandwidth.

I want to preface this with I totally disagree with you on almost everything but your last sentence. I believe the reason there is such a lack of diversity among weapons/armor/items/customization/etc. is to keep server overhead and bandwidth down tremendously. Also PvE I feel is going to get the short end of the stick because of how taxing it is vs. PvP. PvP is very static for the most part, PvE is very dynamic. I fear more than anything that GW will turn completely into a PvP title, forgo the PvE elements (and the associated costs), and turn it into essentially a glorified live version of Magic:The Gathering. New skills will be released, as well as some weapons/items each 6 months allowing new uses for old skills and combo's just like a new set of Magic cards brings new spells and features. While this isn't totally a bad thing, I think the PvE is great and hate to see it get wasted... just segregate PvP and PvE giving each what they want. PvP will buy expansions to get the new skills, etc. automatically and the PvE folks get to play their way. Either way players could still participate in both PvP and PvE, only pay once per expansion, and just not cross characters over except in a special category for PvE player PvP.

[Lucille Drako]

just segregate PvP and PvE giving each what they want. PvP will buy expansions to get the new skills, etc. automatically and the PvE folks get to play their way. Either way players could still participate in both PvP and PvE, only pay once per expansion, and just not cross characters over except in a special category for PvE player PvP.


thats my whole "why bother to ALLOW PvE characters to play PvP at all?" thread.. heheh. But not really relevant to the whole "lets solve the farming issue and make guild halls more usefull in one fell stroke!" type thing that this thread is about.

[huxley maximus]

Some decent points but I agree with the current method of how things work.

[Lucille Drako]

Uh.. Huxley- I take it you are talking about PvE and PvP divisions, rahter than adding some kind of game type to guild halls to move farming out of the environment and to give guilds something to aspire to?

the best time I've had in this game so far was the anticipation of owning a guild hall. and now we have one, its a bit... bare and useless.

With A-Net nerfing all farming locations, seeming to not like the practise of it, and the whole PvP community shrieking for somewhere to farm, and the sheer lack of availability of runes and weapons, and the PvE community screaming out for something to do PvE with their guild.. I think this threads suggestion pretty much beats the crap out of all those problems.

[Navarian]

The solution you have come up with here is not a solution and will only become a problem IMO. The reason I say this is because your giving everyone the ability to forgo even playing the rest of the game. If they did what your suggesting even with all your options of non drop waves and drop wave and so on people would just sit in their guild hall and do wave after wave and nothing else. The reason nerfing the farming is good is because it goes with the purpose of this games playing style balance to the point of someone stopping to look around and realizing, "hey! how come I'm not that much better then everyone else?"

What your talking about as well as all the PvP'ers are talking about is a way to get what you want as fast as you can. Well guess what, that's not guildwars. I know the PvP part is supposed to be less grind if not any but this is a two part game PvP and PvE and your solution although it may be going in the right direction will just unbalance the game in a different way.


The people of AN are the same ones who made diabloII and one of the reasons I was so excited about this game was because......well it wasn't diabloII. DiabloII had some good ideas and was very addicting, however it was too shallow of a game with little substance and it quickly became about one thing or the other. Either you were doing cow runs to lvl up so you do magic finding runs or you were doing, well magic finding runs. If you give people a way to get ahead faster then just playing the game sooner or later everyone will be doing it until the rest of the game gets left behind. Yes what your talking about could be made challenging but it would still get everyone doing the same thing.

It will be, "hey can I get in on wave009 I'm back from dinner!" Anet cannot make any part of the game that way or it will become something it stated it would never be. Nerf all the farming areas until people realize "hey this is what I have and this is what you have, let's see who's the better player," as opposed to "hey I have all the uber gear and you haven't done 100 waves yet to get all the stuff I have so you suck" And to those who say well It won't make you better then anyone else, then whats the point of it? If anyone on this thread agrees that they are a good enough player to compete in PvP without having ALL the runes and ALL the skills and ALL the weapons and armor then what is there to complain about. Take what you have trade with people for what ever else your looking for and go play. The people doing PvP right now don't seem to have any trouble with kicking butt so who cares about how many things you still haven't unlocked.



If you want to PvP and not grind then go PvP and use your great gaming skills to be the best you can be without complaining you don't have the best stuff.

If you like to PvE and want to PvP as well then don't complain that you beat the game and don't have all the stuff unlocked for PvP yet. If you liked the PvE then nothing was lost in your playing it. And as far as switching over to PvP then again go play and use your skill to be the best you can be.

If you wine that someone has things you don't have then your not trying hard enough to find a way to beat them.

Man there's so much to say to this that I have to stop now or I may be here all day. I hope some of that made sense.

[huxley maximus]

Uh.. Huxley- I take it you are talking about PvE and PvP divisions, rahter than adding some kind of game type to guild halls to move farming out of the environment and to give guilds something to aspire to?

the best time I've had in this game so far was the anticipation of owning a guild hall. and now we have one, its a bit... bare and useless.

With A-Net nerfing all farming locations, seeming to not like the practise of it, and the whole PvP community shrieking for somewhere to farm, and the sheer lack of availability of runes and weapons, and the PvE community screaming out for something to do PvE with their guild.. I think this threads suggestion pretty much beats the crap out of all those problems.
The only thing I really agree with is adding a 20 slot storage space at the guild hall to be shared by all members. Good for dropping runes and equipment off for others to pick up. Then again I would probably buy a sigil, start my own guild and use the storage as my personal storage. I would rather have 20 more slots than a guild more than likely.

[bruenor]

I'm sorry I didn;t mean to wander off on topic... my fault. (I do that sometimes and just need a good swift kick to bring me back)

I totally agree with the Guild Hall stuff. This is probably one of the best non game altering ideas that has come up a number of times. I think guild shared storage, guild upgrades (banners, stuffed trophys, practice arena), and just generally making them "home."

However I don't like the wave of monster idea AT ALL. Sorry, but this is kind of lame... who wants to battle wave after mind-numbing wave of enemy in a guild hall? Make the solution either to give the PvP'ers everything up front and when they buy expansions they get it all too, or give them everything but runes and make runes a bit easier to come by (either by adding them as rewards to hard quests like galrath or by killing a boss you get a minor/major/superior in it's profession with different frequencies... for PvP'ers they have to already seek bosses for elite skills anyhow so after you capture your skill and off the boss you get a reward.)

Just my (on topic this time) 2g

[Lucille Drako]

Oh well.. I thought it was quite a good idea- because like i say there will always BE people who farm, it just seems that A-net wants to force these people to either

a) delete their characters and farm through the game time and time again
b) buy more copies of the game to farm through from scratch again and again and again....

I'm only suggesting the wave thing to satisfy the farmers- and to satisfy the people who want to do something with their guild- both things that are ignored.

to be honest, I'd rather go up against someone in pvp with four superior runes and me with a full set of minors. (about 520 hp me vs 220hp mr superior?) although the reality would be maybe only two would ever be used at once

In my opinion sups are highly overrated. farming and skill unlocking still has its appeal. Maybe the game types should not unlock until you reach the ring of fire island chain. That would stop people doing them who haven't "bothered" playing the game- which seems to be the general point of opposition.

Like I say, I have finished the game twice, and now there is little to do but farm for runes and cash for 15K armours.

[Caelib]

You're complaining about having gone through the game twice now ... working on your third. Try doing all of the quests and bonus missions and you will have been lucky to finish just ONE character by now.

[this_barb]

I'm sorry I didn;t mean to wander off on topic... my fault. (I do that sometimes and just need a good swift kick to bring me back)

I totally agree with the Guild Hall stuff. This is probably one of the best non game altering ideas that has come up a number of times. I think guild shared storage, guild upgrades (banners, stuffed trophys, practice arena), and just generally making them "home."

However I don't like the wave of monster idea AT ALL. Sorry, but this is kind of lame... who wants to battle wave after mind-numbing wave of enemy in a guild hall? Make the solution either to give the PvP'ers everything up front and when they buy expansions they get it all too, or give them everything but runes and make runes a bit easier to come by (either by adding them as rewards to hard quests like galrath or by killing a boss you get a minor/major/superior in it's profession with different frequencies... for PvP'ers they have to already seek bosses for elite skills anyhow so after you capture your skill and off the boss you get a reward.)

Just my (on topic this time) 2g

Will I also be able to buy laser turrets and jet hangars for my guild? I'd be sad if they didn't implement f-16s :(

[michaeldt]

the only problem with letting people unlock all these items for PvP is that instead of using them, a lot of people will still try and keep selling them to the ppl in ascalon and lion's arch for stupid amounts of money. this is what anet is trying to prevent. perhaps the solution is to make rune's impossible to trade with other players and only allow ppl to sell them to the traders.

as for farming etc. - i personally don't see the need for massive farming other than buying new fancy armour (and the materials needed for it) to look diff to everyone else.

i think what anet needs to do is make prices at traderds more realistic by dropping more items that give rare materials. at the moment, a bolt of linen is like 400 gold. yet some armours require loads of linen, while other armours only slightly diff only require common crafting materials.

i think more sensible crafting is needed too. it should be simple to craft some charcoal from planks of wood of like 5 gold so that u can use that to make steel. at the moment, you can sell 5 steel, a charcoal, and 1 or two other things and get like 2.5 plat. i did last night and that was at the trader. it's ridiculous.

as for the runes, like i said, the problem is the re-sale of these things. anet have now made sure you'll always get something from salvaging dropped items with add-ons. this shouls release more runes into the market anyway which should drop prices a bit.

i think the guild hall idead is good though, but not to get XP, drops or Gold. only for practise. otherwise it's just more farming.