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LuLuTheMonk
06-06-2005, 03:10
This minion build came from the leader of PuG, aka Rose, and then further tweaked upon by the members of the fianna vent server.

2 corpses:
Nec/xxx
BIP, + life degen weapon

2 Ressers
Me/mo
Restore Life, misc. healing/protection spells

2 Minionators
Nec/xxx
16 death, 13 soul reaping
Animate Bone Fiend, Animate Bone Horror, Taste of Death, Death Nova, Verata's sacrifice, Blood of the master, putrid explosion, veratas aura.

2 monks
mo/rangers i think 2 of these were split between the 2 monks.
Winnowing, Fertile Season, Favorable Winds, Predatory Season.

Beginning of Game, BIP themselves do death, ressers res. Fast cast res takes about 5-6 seconds. After they get enough DP, they can actually only BIP themselves to 1hp, hence, the life degen weapon.

Therefore, in about 60 seconds of prestart time, you can get off about 20 minions.

The totems increase each hit by the fiends by 10. The original build actually had the corpses put on as many superior runes as possible. Because DP is based on your 'base health' of 480, they would ressurect and then die instantly. So originally our mes/mo's had restore life and rebirth to move the corpses around.

Again, as you can see from this build, there are huge gaping holes. The most obvious one is that we have 0 damage output if we dont have our minions. In addition, 6 characters are devoted to this creation process.

As somebody posted in the humungo thread about the billions of minions, this was just done for fun. It was an idea that rose had wanted to try out for a long time, and we just made some additional tweaks to it to make it more efficient.

Due to the NDA, I cannot comment on balthz aura.

Perfect_11.
06-06-2005, 05:08
People are looking at minions the wrong way. In the last mission i did, a fellow necro was complaining that his minions died too fast. The point is people, that Anet did not intend minions to be a "raise and forget pet." Minions were meant to be used in conjunction with other skills. Try raise bone horror, death nova, and taste of death... literally a kamikaze minion (taken from the tips on premade necro in PvP). Minions can become buffers with the right skills (good if you're being focused). Minions also act as mana storage containers. With high soul reaping, you'll find that when they die, its good for you to keep the curse spammage up. Don't lookat them as pets, but temporary exploitationable objects.

Ghostlord
06-06-2005, 05:16
Or you can get veratas sacrifice,heal area and blood of the master,and you got yourself a perfectly capable "raise and forget" army.

DIEnamic
06-06-2005, 06:13
Raising them and having to heal them every 20 seconds is hardly "Raise and Forget"

Nadril
06-06-2005, 08:24
wow, that is a very, very good idea.

Definitly may have to try this with my guild, just for some kicks :)

Hunt3r_kill4
07-06-2005, 01:07
Raising them and having to heal them every 20 seconds is hardly "Raise and Forget"

Took those words right out of my mouth :D

Cantos
07-06-2005, 02:37
Which of these skills work to increase Bone Fiend (the ranged one) damage?

Winnowing
Favorable Winds
Order of the Vampire/Order of Pain

Edit: Durr not reading original post. Order of Pain/Vampire though?

LuLuTheMonk
07-06-2005, 06:55
OoV and OoP only work on party members. Minions are not in your party.

Torm Shadowbane
07-06-2005, 07:46
Mark of Pain might be useful here. If you can just get 15 Minions attacking one target that's a 450 AoE at 30 Damage (10 Curses) per strike. Could be useful when a group is defending their Priest or Holding an Altar. ;)

Have you considered using Resurrect AND Restore Life? Resurrect will bring them back with less life, and they should die (I'm going to assume) almost instantly from the health Degen on the weapon. There are also other benefits to using it as well, as you can cast it at range... and with that many minions running around you might not always be able to get to the corpse. Also, if they die a little bit faster that's a plus to the group.

You might also consider giving the suicide necromancers some more spells. They could also fill the role of Suicide Bomber nicely. When the first enemy falls, one of the suicide necromancers casts Death Nova on himself, then casts Necrotic Traversal. Then kills himself. That would result in poisoning all nearby foes, then dying for a Death Nova effect.

Also, for the Minion Makers, I am uncertain if Verata's Sacrifice works across *ALL* Minions your group controls. I could see it as potentially useful to have them secondary Mesmers using Arcane Echo to keep VS up on the Minions constantly.

Aire
07-06-2005, 17:57
There are a lot of spells taht could be used to enhance this. Barbs for example on a single target, Winnowing and Mark of Pain as mentioned above. Weaken Armour is useful for taking out specific targets as well as barbs

/Aire :)

Hart
09-06-2005, 02:14
This minion build came from the leader of PuG, aka Rose, and then further tweaked upon by the members of the fianna vent server.

2 corpses:
Nec/xxx
BIP, + life degen weapon

2 Ressers
Me/mo
Restore Life, misc. healing/protection spells

2 Minionators
Nec/xxx
16 death, 13 soul reaping
Animate Bone Fiend, Animate Bone Horror, Taste of Death, Death Nova, Verata's sacrifice, Blood of the master, putrid explosion, veratas aura.

2 monks
mo/rangers i think 2 of these were split between the 2 monks.
Winnowing, Fertile Season, Favorable Winds, Predatory Season.


Just thought I'd post my thoughts here. Warning: My posts tend to be extremely long and potentially tedious when I think things out on paper.

First, I'd give the two corpse necros a reason to constantly sacrifice themselves. I'd do this by swapping out Veratas Aura on the minionators for Dark Aura to take advantage of the max Death, and loading the sacrificial lambs up with touch AoEs. In the interest of conserving space I'd probably make them something like Touch of Agony, Dark Pact, Blood is Power, Signet of Agony, Chillblains, Plague Sending, Barbed Signet, Strip Enchantment.

Then, I'd make sure that they die quickly and effectively. When possible during battle, use Vengance to rez them, and make sure they get a Death Nova quickly afterwards both for the damage/poison on death and to stop shatter enchant from instantly killing them. Put Dark Aura on top and have them charge in for Touch of Death => Dark Pact spam until dead for around 100 aoe damage and 200 targeted damage per two spell combo, plus Death Nova damage and poison. Use Putrid Explosion on their well placed corpse for another AoE immediately after the Nova and Vengance them again. Interesting that Vengance, Death Nova and Dark Aura all have a 30s timer.

Finally I'd set the 2 Mo/R up as Smiting monks and have them run Balth's Aura on the sacrificial necros as well as keeping Vengance on their bar, giving 4 potential sources of Vengance. This should allow for an additional ~300 AoE damage around the sacrificial necro and keep them up and killing more.

I believe these changes would allow for a slightly stronger overall build by giving a damage source in case the minions are defeated, free kills against minions who are converted via the smiting monks, and more efficient if somewhat slower suicides from the sacrificial necros. I tossed in a bit of enchantment removal as well, mainly to remove Mark of Protection or Healing Seed and stop mins from healing your opponent.

woflborg
11-07-2005, 14:57
Use Putrid Explosion on their well placed corpse for another AoE immediately after the Nova and Vengance them again.

Its common knowledge how devastating putrid can be at times, and possible death nova combined with some sacrifices and dark aura and at best, two putrid explosions (necros, and the targets) is something that does show neat numbers on paper.

But using putrid will use up the corpse, and no minion can be summoned from it ? And the way this template would be played, when your necros would actively be attacking your target, would mean the corpses will be used up by the enemy teams putrids anyway, if not by yours.


Interesting that Vengance, Death Nova and Dark Aura all have a 30s timer.

I know im just nitpicking here, but death nova has 2s and dark aura 10s timer.


Finally I'd set the 2 Mo/R up as Smiting monks and have them run Balth's Aura on the sacrificial necros as well as keeping Vengance on their bar, giving 4 potential sources of Vengance.

This means one minion each 10 seconds, IF by some odd reason they arent used in putrids....

So clearly, this isnt anymore a minion build comparable to the one minion each 3 seconds by lulus build.

And it clearly isnt even optimized, so if you wish to enchance it (while still keeping it a minion build) try adding things like quickening zephyr/energizing winds/mark of pain/barbs/weaken armor to it.

If you want to keep those kamikaze sacrificers with dark aura who have the habit of exploding for roughly 200 damage.. you should make a build based on them and forget minions :)

WickedImpression
20-09-2005, 20:47
I am Very Impressed!
Way to think out more builds. I guess I just got tired of all the nerfs.
I saw both the minion Build and the FoC build from Lulo (I believe) and am thuroughly impressed in the Necro workage in the videos.

I use a Spiteful Spirit build and works well, but I see that both of these are highly coordinated, but more effective.

Brownie Points for creativity, keep it up all~!

~ Wicked Impression

Aire
20-09-2005, 21:07
Actually the FoC build came from Wicked N in one of the beta events... He's not used it since though

/Aire :)

king alfonso
22-09-2005, 00:41
I really thought lulu the monk was amazing. Most people say rumors. He hacks and cheats!i dont think thast true you will know if u have played with him..... Thouhg he was kinda weird friends also say he tried hacking some servers and stuff But he was amazing at HoH exploiting those corpses to make over 2 dozen bones real crazy ****

Aire
22-09-2005, 18:08
He hacks and cheats!i

Thats complete rubbish - he just knows how to play the game and how to manipulate the surroundings - he also has a good guild...

/Aire :)

Alhandra
22-09-2005, 20:19
Due to the NDA, I cannot comment on balthz aura.
I can since I didn't participate in any of that stuff. Last time I went with a minion master to Sorrow's Furnace, I went as a pure smiting monk. The minion master died at some point, 20some minions turned hostile to our only tank who was standing right in the middle of them. I put Balt Aura on the tank + Shield of Judgement, the minions were gone in a matter of seconds.
I didn't even need to heal the tank. Balt Aura does double damage to all of that, as does pretty much all of the smiting.

If the guys had some death nova on them, just prot spirit, healing breeze (or something similar), and healing seed. You can add shielding hands for a good measure.

If you talk about enchanting minions, sure you can put any enchant on them, but so you can on anyone on the team - the minions will die a little too fast and are too easy to lose to risk some dangerous/costly enchants on them.

Aire
22-09-2005, 20:23
I can since I didn't participate in any of that stuff. Last time I went with a minion master to Sorrow's Furnace, I went as a pure smiting monk

He means when you were able to Stack balthazar's aura - this meant that one person could do around 150 damage ignoring armour per second in AOE. By saying that he can't comment on it due to the NDA - it means they found out about it during the Alpha Testing - they just tried it out during tombs.... It was then fixed

/Aire :)

Alhandra
22-09-2005, 20:29
He means when you were able to Stack balthazar's aura - this meant that one person could do around 150 damage ignoring armour per second in AOE. By saying that he can't comment on it due to the NDA - it means they found out about it during the Alpha Testing - they just tried it out during tombs.... It was then fixed

/Aire :)
Well, if you have multiple sources of Balt Aura and multiple targets to put it on, you can still stack it pretty well - not as well as it used to be of course. With minion builds it would work, just problem is again - one verata's aura and you have all of that smiting back on yourself.