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View Full Version : Sprint and Dodge, your opinion.



FragJunky
06-06-2005, 17:44
I have mentioned this before, but think I should mention it again.

Unless I just can not find it for a Necro or Monk, there is no Sprint of Dodge for Casters.

Warrior has Sprint, and Ranger has Dodge, why then are the casters being punished. So many times my N/Mo dies because I can not pull back quick enough and rebuild. Again, so many times, all that is left is me and a warrior, and he will pull back to rebuild, and I am left standing there and get doubled up on, and die like a dog. And yet again, A Warrior or Ranger can run for a gate, and save the party, but a Caster is left to die.

If you are going to have Sprint and or Dodge for two characters, then it should be on all characters.

Just wondering how others feel about this.

Castor Mintak
06-06-2005, 17:47
personal opinion (as one who plays casters) is that if the warrior is being beaten so badly that he's pulling back you should already be way ahead of him (seeing as how you should be back from him anyway, casting)

I realize the speed boost, but you should have probably already been taking off to build back up/recharge/save party/etc...before the warrior leaves.

ReZon
06-06-2005, 17:48
While not a solution, there is necrotic traversal, low mana cost, and could (COULD) get you out of danger:

Description: Exploit a random corpse, you teleport to that corpse's location and all nearby foes become poisoned for 5-17 seconds.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 3/4ths of a Second.
Recharge Time: None.
Linked Attribute: Death Magic. Increases duration.

Lucille Drako
06-06-2005, 17:54
I beg to differ- there is indeed an elementalist sprint- something like "air speed" or something- anyway, whatever its called, its like the warrior tactics skill "charge" that gives your whole party a 25% (or 33%, can't remember) speed boost for a few seconds.

mesmer and many other casters have exactly the opposite skill.. imagined burden, etc. slows the enemy so you can run- whats the need of a sprint in those situations.

now where the ranger wins and can actually escape is by using the pin down shot on a pursuing enemy, running away, poisoning the target, using hunters shot THEN hitting sprint to get some distance. Nothing like a bleeding poisoned bar with about 7 pips of degen to make a pursuing enemy think twice... (unless its as stupid as most of the AI)

ok, so we have:

ranger
warrior
mesmer
elementalist
necro

can all escape danger... (ok so the necro is debateable) that only leaves monk without a sprint. Since this game is about primary AND secondary professions... this really is a silly thing to argue about.

ooh.. a monk/ranger would be extremely interesting. SEE.. thats what we should be discussing. *wink*

Chantal Dubois
06-06-2005, 17:58
Windborne Speed for elementalist and Illusion of Haste for mesmers.

sly_1
06-06-2005, 18:01
For starters, Ele's and mes's get a speed buff, so it's just monks and necro's who don't. So that makes exactly two class combos with no speed buff, necro/monk and monk/necro.

But regardless, the moral of the story is not all characters should be in the frontlines of a combat situation to start with. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and state that a necro/monk is generally one of those kinds of characters, though that could easily depend on what skills the character is using.

At the end of the day, you have to know your role in the party and play your position intelligently. If your class has no speed buff, play with that weakness in mind. Be more conservative. If you need to be in combat, be willing and ready to dart out BEFORE the battle is lost.

For example, I have a character who has access to a speed buff, but I generally don't equip it. Instead I actually move around in a combat situation (novel idea, I know) only darting into melee when the time is right and darting out before my character gets in trouble. And here's a hint: by the time your character has less than 40 hp and is poisoned, on fire, bleeding, has a deep wound, and is crippled, it's probably just a wee bit too late to start retreating. ;)

I see so many people in pickup groups just stand in one spot refusing to move no matter what the situation, then get mad at their teammates or the game or whatever when they die. :confused:

FragJunky
06-06-2005, 18:06
personal opinion (as one who plays casters) is that if the warrior is being beaten so badly that he's pulling back you should already be way ahead of him (seeing as how you should be back from him anyway, casting)

I realize the speed boost, but you should have probably already been taking off to build back up/recharge/save party/etc...before the warrior leaves.


The point being is in a heavy battle, where everyone is taking high damage, you have to hang in there and do the best you can. So many times, I have seen the Warrior(and I don't fault them for it) duck out and run to rebuild. More often then not it is in a narrow canyon or trail, there is only one way to go. If he stops long enough to tell you he is pulling out, he is dead. Even if he does tell you like on Team Speak, what good is it if you can not out distance them. Instead of 1 or 2 pounding on you, you now have 5 or 6 poinding on you. The point is, you can not get away, it has nothing to do with paying attention to what the other guy is doing.

As for skills like pin down, or move slower skills, what attack skill or you willing to give up to put a skill in that is weak. Also, are you going to stop and cast then wait for it to recharge and cast again until you hit all 5 Enemy, then walk away. It just does not work that way.

I have both a W/Mo(19), and N/Mo(19) and would not give up Sprint or trade a spot for any skill. If I had one for my Necro, the same would apply.

FragJunky
06-06-2005, 18:17
For starters, Ele's and mes's get a speed buff, so it's just monks and necro's who don't. So that makes exactly two class combos with no speed buff, necro/monk and monk/necro.

But regardless, the moral of the story is not all characters should be in the frontlines of a combat situation to start with. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and state that a necro/monk is generally one of those kinds of characters, though that could easily depend on what skills the character is using.

At the end of the day, you have to know your role in the party and play your position intelligently. If your class has no speed buff, play with that weakness in mind. Be more conservative. If you need to be in combat, be willing and ready to dart out BEFORE the battle is lost.

For example, I have a character who has access to a speed buff, but I generally don't equip it. Instead I actually move around in a combat situation (novel idea, I know) only darting into melee when the time is right and darting out before my character gets in trouble. And here's a hint: by the time your character has less than 40 hp and is poisoned, on fire, bleeding, has a deep wound, and is crippled, it's probably just a wee bit too late to start retreating. ;)

I see so many people in pickup groups just stand in one spot refusing to move no matter what the situation, then get mad at their teammates or the game or whatever when they die. :confused:


I don't have a problem with dieing, I do it so well, I have made it a Art Form. As for watching health, I agree, but a caster can not go toe to toe with 5 Hydra like a heavey armored Warrior. If the Warrior pulls out leaving you standing, simply put, your toast. I know my place in battle very well, I do not just stand there and cast, I work and play the enemy and location to it's full advantage. Also, being in the back casting, your life is not always at stake like the warrior, but when he pulls and runs, 5 Hydra will take you out so fast your head will spin.

This can be argued so many different ways. The bottom line is Necro and or Monk do not have it, and it sucks. As for the other caster, that is good to know. I was not aware they had it.

arrain
06-06-2005, 19:06
I understand what the original poster is saying, which is why on my main (a healing / divine favour / protection monk) I changed my secondary class from mesmer to warrior, solely for sprint and bonetti's defence.

I use sprint to get away from the enemy if I'm getting pounded on, and bonetti's to rebuild my energy enough to keep the high heals going or for sprint to recharge.

so far, I have not regretted changing from mesmer to warrior at all ;)

sly_1
06-06-2005, 19:52
As for skills like pin down, or move slower skills, what attack skill or you willing to give up to put a skill in that is weak.

This quote belies the underlying problem. Having a 100% offensive based character is a liability in this game.

If you have a good team with traps, pin down, imagined burden, hamstring, etc players can then coordinate their efforts and perform organized withdrawels if things get dicey. This, as opposed to "oh crap, I'm getting pwned! Run away! run away!"

And again, the typical strategy of retreating at the very last second is deeply flawed.

Take your own example of a battle vs hydras in a valley with only 1 way out. You can just charge in and hope for the best (as it sounds like you are doing).

Alternatively, you could have a ranger set traps just beyond their aggro range and *then* charge in. If you need to retreat the monsters run over the traps and the party get's away clean. (yes, I realize you might not always have a trapper in your group, but it's an example, allready :P )

Oh wait, but you can't do that, because traps are weak, non attack skills, right? :lol:

At the end of the day it seems to me that lack of planning and teamwork is the problem here. If you need sprint or dodge to survive in Guild Wars the problem isn't class balance, it's the player(s). Rethink your strategy and try to realize *why* you die, rather than complain about not having a certain skill available for your character. That, or just change your secondary class so that you have the skills you want. *shrug*




p.s. There's a reason why groups in the know welcome trap rangers in parties in places like fissures and underworld where a hydra would be a welcome relief from the monsters hanging around. ;)

FragJunky
06-06-2005, 20:02
This quote belies the underlying problem. Having a 100% offensive based character is a liability in this game.

If you have a good team with traps, pin down, imagined burden, hamstring, etc players can then coordinate their efforts and perform organized withdrawels if things get dicey. This, as opposed to "oh crap, I'm getting pwned! Run away! run away!"

And again, the typical strategy of retreating at the very last second is deeply flawed.

Take your own example of a battle vs hydras in a valley with only 1 way out. You can just charge in and hope for the best (as it sounds like you are doing).

Alternatively, you could have a ranger set traps just beyond their aggro range and *then* charge in. If you need to retreat the monsters run over the traps and the party get's away clean. Oh wait, but you can't do that, because traps are weak, non attack skills, right? :lol:

At the end of the day it seems to me that lack of planning and teamwork is the problem here. If you need sprint or dodge to survive in Guild Wars the problem isn't class balance, it's the player(s). Rethink your strategy and try to realize *why* you die, rather than complain about not having a certain skill available for your character. That, or just change your secondary class so that you have the skills you want. *shrug*




p.s. There's a reason why groups in the know welcome trap rangers in parties in places like fissures and underworld where a hydra would be a welcome relief from the monsters hanging around. ;)


First it is not a complaint, it is an observation. Second it is not a matter of lack of planning, it is the ability to turn around and event that would not be other wise winnable. I am talking about being able to sneak back and Raise them and go on to win the battle. What good is trap when the Ranger is dead.

*shrug back at you* for your lack in being able to understand how having the ability to get away so you can come back and pull the magic rabbit out of your hat and save the day. And don't tell me if you had this really great Elite Skill called Turn Around Events, you would not use it because of lack of planning. If you have figured out how to make the Enemy follow a script, and not deviate from your perfectly laid plans, I would very much like to know how you do it.

I can see I am getting now where with this. Everyone is saying it is my lack of planning when I keep saying over and over it is not, or use this or use that. No one gets it. Seems like every time I see a topic where somone is looking for support, advice, or suggestions, instead of adding intelegent comments to the topic, they always dump on them. *shrug*

FragJunky
06-06-2005, 20:18
Windborne Speed for elementalist and Illusion of Haste for mesmers.


Thank You very much, this is the content I was looking for. :happy34:

FragJunky
06-06-2005, 20:21
I understand what the original poster is saying, which is why on my main (a healing / divine favour / protection monk) I changed my secondary class from mesmer to warrior, solely for sprint and bonetti's defence.

I use sprint to get away from the enemy if I'm getting pounded on, and bonetti's to rebuild my energy enough to keep the high heals going or for sprint to recharge.

so far, I have not regretted changing from mesmer to warrior at all ;)

Excatly. :worship:

I love my N/Mo build and at level 19, it is way to late to change my second now. It just seems odd to me that Monk and Necro do not have it as this topic has so far shown.

Rizzy
06-06-2005, 21:41
Windborne Speed for elementalist and Illusion of Haste for mesmers.
Dont forget distortion.

Mesmer's dodging and sprinting come with their own price.

While Illusion of haste is faster.. thats balanced out by 1 second casting time, which is still enough time for a warrior to run up to you.

And after it ends you get cripplied.

Dodging for mesmers.. 75% chance to dodge you lose 4 - 1 ene for each time you dodge this way.

I lose a bunch of ene when Im being attacked by 2 guys and i have distortion.

So its fair :|

sly_1
06-06-2005, 23:00
I can see I am getting now where with this. Everyone is saying it is my lack of planning when I keep saying over and over it is not, or use this or use that. No one gets it. Seems like every time I see a topic where somone is looking for support, advice, or suggestions, instead of adding intelegent comments to the topic, they always dump on them. *shrug*

I'm not trying to dump on you, fragjunky, just trying to offer suggestions. if there are 5 barbed traps in the retreat path of 5 monsters and a plan to run through the traps in the event of a retreat, you now have a viable escape route. Worst case scenario is maybe 1 or 2 foes get through/around the traps, but that's better than all 5.

If you have 5 members of a team with imagined burden, pin down, and hamstring you could retreat from 5 foes. Of course, the team needs to coordinates using all those skills at the same time for it to be successful which is where teamwork and coordination come into play.

I'm trying to point out that planning and coordination are the keys to success vs extremely tough foes and you accuse me of attacking you. Sorry you mis interpreted my intentions, but hey, there you have it. ;)

FragJunky
08-06-2005, 22:52
I'm not trying to dump on you, fragjunky, just trying to offer suggestions. if there are 5 barbed traps in the retreat path of 5 monsters and a plan to run through the traps in the event of a retreat, you now have a viable escape route. Worst case scenario is maybe 1 or 2 foes get through/around the traps, but that's better than all 5.

If you have 5 members of a team with imagined burden, pin down, and hamstring you could retreat from 5 foes. Of course, the team needs to coordinates using all those skills at the same time for it to be successful which is where teamwork and coordination come into play.

I'm trying to point out that planning and coordination are the keys to success vs extremely tough foes and you accuse me of attacking you. Sorry you mis interpreted my intentions, but hey, there you have it. ;)

My apologies. I did miss read it. Taken in that light, yes it is a good strategy.

Still when the chips are down, and there is only me left, there would be no replacing Sprint. Especially during a mission when you can not respawn. You can come back and raise them, and go on to win the mission.

Defiled Immortal
09-06-2005, 02:33
yes that is correct... for PvE... but if u notice.... this is the PvP section. thus if your the only one left... chances are you gona just be an annoying runner waiting for a hungry air elemental to turn your head into a lightbulb.

FragJunky
09-06-2005, 19:44
yes that is correct... for PvE... but if u notice.... this is the PvP section. thus if your the only one left... chances are you gona just be an annoying runner waiting for a hungry air elemental to turn your head into a lightbulb.

Got you there, they moved the Topic on me. :howdy: