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Saikyo
07-06-2005, 01:30
I've been thinking about this spell for a while now and I've been trying to figure out how to use it effectively. It is cheap, (5 energy), recharges quickly (5 seconds) and does a ton of damage. My problem is I'm not sure how to use it.

It seems that energy denail build using skills like

Power Leak
Energy Tap
Spirit Shackles
Guilt/Shame
Energy Burn
etc.

With a constant application of mind wrack would be how to use it. But I'm worried about how to make sure that you can continually use the spell to apply damage and pressure to the caster. Also the fact that you don't know how much energy anyone has is another problems since you would want to apply it close to the time that they reach 0 energy.

Additionally this doesn't seem to be a very effective skill to use on elementalist with their gigantic energy pools and most effective on warriors who have the least energy/energy regen.

If anyone has some suggestions on how to use this skill I'd like to hear about it.

Jijimuge
07-06-2005, 03:56
Well, one of the most obvious ways to do this would be to model your strategy after the mergoyles who combine spirit shackles with mind wrack.

If a warrior (or perhaps ranger) has spirit shackles on, then they'll be out of mana within a max of maybe 4 attacks (as at least 1 of them will probably involve using energy itself).

If they keep attacking, their energy will hardly go above 1, so just keep spamming mind wrack on your victim as soon as it recharges (5 secs).

Of course, in PvP, this won't work versus smart warriors, as they'll just stop attacking and use their spells, if they have any. In PvE, when fighting mergoyles, I never start out by attacking them - I cover as many as possible with parasitic bonds, and then kill the ones on whom I've cast the spells with my regular and adrenaline attacks.

One of the problems is that one can't see what spells one's enemy has on them - one can just see that, for example, at least 1 hex is still active, which doesn't tell you whether or not your mind wrack has expired. You might be able to tell when mind wrack has taken effect by seeing a sudden drop in your enemy's health, but this would be tricky.

I agree with you about trying to drain an elementalist - not worth it. The same probably goes for mesmers, as they're probably going to try draining someone else anyhow. Monks could also make OK targets, as they will often be getting near to zero energy from casting so many heals

Without spirit shackles, you would have to actually drain the enemy's energy down to zero within the time limit of mind wrack. The difficulty of doing this would mean that mind wrack stops being spammable for quick, easy damage.

Another skill to put into the mix could be the Necromancer hex Malaise which gives an enemy 2 pips of energy degen at the cost of giving you 2 pips of health degen.

Samuel
07-06-2005, 04:54
I've been thinking about this spell for a while now and I've been trying to figure out how to use it effectively. It is cheap, (5 energy), recharges quickly (5 seconds) and does a ton of damage. My problem is I'm not sure how to use it.

It seems that energy denail build using skills like

Power Leak
Energy Tap
Spirit Shackles
Guilt/Shame
Energy Burn
etc.

With a constant application of mind wrack would be how to use it. But I'm worried about how to make sure that you can continually use the spell to apply damage and pressure to the caster. Also the fact that you don't know how much energy anyone has is another problems since you would want to apply it close to the time that they reach 0 energy.

Additionally this doesn't seem to be a very effective skill to use on elementalist with their gigantic energy pools and most effective on warriors who have the least energy/energy regen.

If anyone has some suggestions on how to use this skill I'd like to hear about it.
To know how much energy the enemy has, i use ether feast or energy burn. if its less than 5 ill cast mind wrack and then ether lord to lock it at 0

Feynt
07-06-2005, 08:24
Being part ranger with Quickening Zephyr and Dibilitating Shot would be a great way to knock down an elementalist's energy cache. Not only does your shot take off 10 energy per hit and do normal damage, AND recharge quicker because of the spirit, the elementalist will probably be casting spells at you or your team mates (at a 30% increase in costs to boot). He'll be at 0 energy in no time flat, primed for Mind Wracking into the ground.

I recommend this with a ranger primary only though, Dibilitating Shot is 10 energy, so you'll need a decent Expertise skill to drop that cost so YOU don't run out of energy.

Tsume
07-06-2005, 09:53
As far as targeting an Elementalist goes, whether pure Mesmer or Ranger, your time and energy would be better spent on the healers of the team instead.

As far as how to use Mind Wrack, well its just a damage skill for energy denial builds. Steal and rob an enemy of their energy and use mind wrack. A lot of people launch a Mind Wrack, tear into the target with their skills, wait for the damage from Wrack then recast Wrack, and drain again. After you have someone down, one drain skill keeps them down pretty efficiently, and you can use 2 or 3 on another target.

You can also notice by the spells your target is casting. If you are seeing them cast high cost spells then they have plenty of energy. When they start to drop in their pool size, they will slow down and try more of a self preservation approach. Since you should be stealing energy, you will have plenty of it with these type of builds.

Just play around with it, and eventually you will develope a niche for estimating targets energy based off of how much youve stolen, their estimated regen over that time, etc.

Say for instance your strategy is to use Mind Wrack, and then throw Malaise or Withering on top of it or vice versa. You then know they have atleast 2 regen, so you must assume that every 3 seconds they are gaing 2 energy. Your fast casting should be high, energy tap takes x energy and replenishes your own pool. Then you use burn for x energy and have power leak when the opportunity presents itself, pretty much ensuring they are at 0 if you pull it off. Come in with the Energy Drain (quick recharge and lots of theft, must have if your rusty on timing Power Leak). Ether Lord plus Malaise, Panic, or Withering should give them negative regen, or you can spread it over 2 targets. And even though Ether Lord uses all your energy, again you have plenty of theft to make up for it. Just make sure to work out the timings.

Anyhow, with or without MindWrack your making a huge difference. A caster with no energy isnt a caster anymore :P.

Diast
08-06-2005, 05:58
One VERY easy way to tell if your target's energy is 0 is to cast energy burn, ether feast, or energy tap. Just watch what happens when you cast these spells.

For example, energy burn does 8 damage for each point of energy consumed, so say if you usually do 64 damage (8 damage x 8 energy lost), but then you cast energy burn and it does LESS than 64, it means your target is ready to take mind wrack, or if you had already casted mind wrack it means the mind wrack damage has already taken effect and it is time to cast it again.

This strategy works with ether feast as well, just check how much you get healed by it, if you dont get the whole amount of the heal it means that the targets energy is gone. Combine that w/ spirit shackles and you will be shutting them down in time at all.

AnarkiNet
08-06-2005, 07:59
one thing with this build...be absolutely sure you have soul barbs and very high level curses. it will add around 25-30 damage each time you slap a hex on the guy.

do soul barbs first, then the rest of your hexes and they will SUFFER.

Yanna Fairhame
08-06-2005, 12:11
also the wither/malaise combo benifits from having mind wrack... if you but wither/malaise on the target needs to have them removed or needs to cast down to 0.... even if the target removes his off hand to get himself out of the hexes he still is taken down to 0 and all 3 of your hexes come off wither/malaise and mindwrack.

at that point you recast mindrwack and if you have channeling on... stand next to them and keep casting mindwrack over and over... they lose one mp each time you cast next to them constantly making them tick down to 0 and making mindwrack go off.... may need to be comboed with wastrals worry as well.

Fire Childe
08-06-2005, 16:15
mind wrack only deals damage when the hex ends. which is after a certain period of time. this means at at that precise moment your target has to have 0 mana in order to take damage. this situation is somewhat annoying to set up and you'll end up making a build around mind wrack more than likely in order to achieve it. its not enough to energy drain a target then slap mind wrack on them. you have to make sure that at the precise moment the hex ends, they have 0 mana.

the only effective way of keeping your target at 0 is to, as someone already mentioned, lock it at 0 using ether lord after energy draining the hell out of the target. thats alot of effort, micromanagement and skill slots to go through for wrack damage - which isnt even that high compared to some of the other damage dealing skills in the mesmer line. even though wrack can be recast every 5 seconds, the duration of the hex is longer than that. therefore you cant really spam it on a single target.

The Catfish
08-06-2005, 23:42
mind wrack only deals damage when the hex ends

Mind Wrack (availability)
Description: For 20 seconds, if target foe's energy is zero, that foe takes 15-75 damage and Mind Wrack ends.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 1 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 5 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Domination Magic. Increases damage dealt.
Skill Type: Hex Spell.

From the description it looks like that there is a 20 second window for the damage to be dealt. If at any time in that 20 seconds their energy hits 0, they get hit by it. However, I could be wrong, I haven't used it yet.

AnarkiNet
09-06-2005, 00:00
the catfish is correct. it ends ONLY when either the duration is up (and it does no damage when it ends that way) OR when the foes mana reaches 0 (when it ends and deals damage)

Feynt
09-06-2005, 01:32
You could always be anti-warrior, hit them with Spirit Shackles and Mind Wrack (and name yourself Mergoyle Elite. >3 )