What is the Best Healing Character?

[Morkins the Monk]

Ok right now i have a mo/me but i want to know what you think the best healing character would be a monk/???, a Me/Mo or an Ele/Mo. Ok i know Divine Favor is useful while healing but what is the best overall healer Me/Mo because of Fast Casting or Ele/Mo because of Energy Storage. I have been thinking of creating another healer but i dont know what classes to make him please give me any thoughts you may have

[Way of the Dragon]

for protection i think ele/monk. For divine favor obvously monk/other. Ele/monk is more diverse. You can nuke or heal so you may be better in that aspect and change your build on the spot to fit a group. I have not seen a good ele/monk healer though, but I'm usually on the job. I guess they are nuking/back up healing while I handle the group.

[Morkins the Monk]

for protection i think ele/monk. For divine favor obvously monk/other.

i want to know healing wise because energy storage means you can cast more spells before you run out of energy and the Earth, Healing and Energy Storage Attribute combinations means i can heal im not the first target and capable of using earth magic to protect myself giving me by more armor. i would think they could handle the healing better then a monk primary because of more energy

[BjoernLars]

I have a LvL 20 Mo/N, and two things happen:

1) We get overwhelmed, that I run out of energy and I end up just clicking on Orison Healing everytime my Energy gets to 5 in order to cast it on the person that needs it the most.

In this situation, I wish that I was a E/Mo so I can have that extra energy. But if the group works well together and they aren't damaged much or try to heal themselves, then all that energy isn't needed.

I quest with 7 other henchmen sometimes including the protector, and most of the time I really don't use my heal spells other than heal party once in awhile, and I focus on my Necro spells.

Remember, Elementalist get that big Energy Storage because they seem to have lots of spells that require lots of Energy (25 Energy for one spell).

2) When a character goes down (I'm sorry, but it does happen sometimes), I wish I had the Mesmer's ability of fast casting to rez my team mates quicker. Or sometimes I lose someone because I couldn't get that heal spell off fast enough.

Overall, I personally wish to have the energy storage, because if I can put enough protection and heal spells on my troops, then I won't be trying to rez them or have their life on a border line.

Just my opinion.

[Morkins the Monk]

Any suggestions on the other for mo/???

[Way of the Dragon]

I honestly don't have a problem with energy(my healing build is divinity). I use healing word alot to conserve mana. Usually when somone dies it's cause they dropped too fast or the entire group couldn't possible handle the pull. I guess the only difference would be in the runes. I only use a +1 healing prayer rune so it aint much. I don't even equip orison healing. I'm not sure if secondary monks get the res party spell.

[Unionjack]

I have a LvL 20 Mo/N, and two things happen:

1) We get overwhelmed, that I run out of energy and I end up just clicking on Orison Healing everytime my Energy gets to 5 in order to cast it on the person that needs it the most.

In this situation, I wish that I was a E/Mo so I can have that extra energy. But if the group works well together and they aren't damaged much or try to heal themselves, then all that energy isn't needed.


When the party is overwhelmed, it doesn't matter what kind of healer you are. Your party has made a tactical error, and some teammates are going to die for it.

A E/Mo will not fare better than a Mo/X in this situation, because both have comparable healing output - put simplistically, the E/Mo has many small heals, the Mo/X has few big heals. Further, any class combination of healer isn't going to be able to keep everyone alive all the time. It's as much the healers responsibility to keep teammates alive, as it is the party's responsibility to not drain the healers energy unnecessarily by playing stupidly or poorly.

So, what is a healer for? To perform "divine intervention". To save butts when 20 scarabs pop up from the ground. To focus healing on the party's blaster ele, when he gets blocked in against a wall, and needs 6 seconds to survive this fatal mistake. To let 2 teammates die, so the most important ones can live and ultimately achieve victory.

Ultimately, a Mo/X is a "best" healing character for a good team, because a good team doesn't rely on healers as a life-support system. Each player on the team needs some kind of self-sufficiency through stances, wards, hex-removal, interrupts, etc. An E/Mo healer with its numerous weaker heals, is really only good for keeping hp-bars topped off during easy encounters.

However, if we were to talk about protectors, instead of pure healers... totally different story.

[Mkillerh]

Crunch time. Got to remember crunch times.

If you have a E/Mo blasting away energy cause their orison only heals like 60, heal other will be seriously screwing their energy.

Being primary monk gives you divine favor, and a such skill like divine boon

60+40=110 heal for 5 energy
~150+40=~190 heal for 10 energy

Now, i would much rather have a 110 heal instead of waiting and letting team members die untill my heal other is up. Other classes dont even have divine, so if you want a healer / protector, monk is the way to go.

Secondary? Psh, i dont know :happy34:

[Mr Panda]

ok, well i made a decent emo recently, and i've found it to be a great monk.
its not finished, i still need to do the two attribute points quests, so its only at 170/200 there.
Bascially, its the average ele/monk healer build with a slight twist. Attributes are something like 13 energy storage (theres a rune there) i think 12 or 11 healing, and 9 smiting.
She uses aura of restoration (would be a waste with all that energy storage) and zealots fire as her two enchantment spells - they are both 10 point spells that last 60 seconds, so no regen drain.
She has about 83 energy, tho like i said, shes not finished
All the rest of her skills are all on healing - off the top of my head she uses word or healing, orison of healing, heal other, healing breeze and probably something else. Best thing about this build is, not only the copious amounts of energy an emo gets and all those inherent advantages, but the smiting and zealots fire. Zealots Fire does aoe fire damage to foes near your target when you cast a spell/skill on it. So shes sitting there doing alot of healing, with a ton of energy, simultaneously healing herself (aura of restoration) and doing about 30 damage to enemies. Obviously theres probably some flaw with it, but its the best healing build i've seen for a long time, covers nearly all the points it needs to.

[Herthbul]

I can basically sum it up like this. If you're running Protection skills, then you want an Ele/Mo or a N/Mo, because the DF bonus just won't kick in that often. Plus having more energy for skills like Guardian and Reversal of Fortune is critical because your goal is to prevent damage, and the Monks with Healing Prayers are there to restore any damage that leaks through. If you're running Healing Prayers, then you want a Mo/? because the DF bonus will matter so much more. Sure you have more energy like as an E/Mo, but you're using more of it just to keep up with the Mo/?

[Outline]

N/Mo is a pretty good healer combination due to Soul Reaping, especially if you happen to have a minion master in your group. I think that Me/Mo is a pretty bad build, because, yeah you can cast much faster and keep your teammates alive more easily for awhile, but since you cast so quickly its pretty easy to run out of energy whitout realising it. The E/Mo combination is a great one, You would have an advantage because of high energy, but later on you would just have trouble healing when your down to using orison like a madman because you don't heal as much without divine favor. Theres always the pure monk, with divine favor but with lower energy.

Its your choice, really, all the options are fine.

[Copious Teraflops]

E/Mo's aren't good for PvP healing in tombs. They can cast a lot of heals but they can't heal quickly enough without devine. They also can't use boon and other devine skills. The same goes for any secondary monk trying to heal. I won't make a group with one healing and I know many people feel the same. As people have said, protection is another story. I see a lot of bad monk advice on these boards. I suspect there are a lot of mediorcre monks out there.

[slashdot]

Mo/N with Divine, Healing, Blood all at 11/10

offering of blood, unlimited energy.

[Morkins the Monk]

ok so a monk primary is the best but what secondary? mesmer? i already have one and never use the mesmer skills. so what would be better?

[Way of the Dragon]

ok so a monk primary is the best but what secondary? mesmer? i already have one and never use the mesmer skills. so what would be better?

I think that part is up to the player's opinion. I personally love having warrior as my secondary. I have a really good solo build that warrior bests suits.

[Krystara]

From my experiences:

Monk / whatever = playing the divine focus route, your heals are the most efficient in terms of healing for your time and energy. Divine focus is nice with protection actually, if you are spamming reversal of fortune, its even nicer for the target to be getting 30-some health each time in addition.

Elementalist / Monk = biggest energy tank, good offensive punch if needed. Very nice for a backup healer in PvE. Doesnt have the lasting power in PvP, once the big storage is down, they regen as fast as anyone and heal less than other options. Also nice with AoR to self heal while throwing around heal others.

Mesmer / Monk = Fast casting, and good mana regen spells. Mesmer monks can get comperable healing over time to a divine favor monk, but they spend more energy to do it. Skills like energy drain can really help out with keeping you going over a long battle, and helps drain the enemy.

Necro / Monk = Soul Reaping, you get energy when things die, which is awesome in PvE, this is a monk that doesnt stop healing, with solid aoe regen skills to boot. In PvP not enough stuff dies to justify this build over other options in my opinion, at least not for pure healing, necromancers bring other nice things to the field, dont get me wrong.

So to sum up, mesmer monk, or monk something for PvP seems the viable routes to me, with necro monk and elementalist monk being nice PvE options.

-Krystara

[Relativity]

60+40=110

Your math teacher would be proud! :happy34:

[DarkY]

last weekend i tried the E/Mo version of my Mo/E char.

Maybe im still to noobish for this game, but regenerating nrgy on the elemantalist .... it sucks.
I had alot nrgy, but getting 5 from nothing takes way to long.

Also healing quality is alot lower (lvl 12 vs lvl 15 (180 heal))
On several skills, its a big difference.


My char (the Mo/E) has no E skills. So i also could choose Monk only.

[Taxed]

My advise: Forget the monk/?
Use Necro/monk

Reasons: nobody ever suspects the necro for a party healer. You don't get attacked much in PvP. Normally my necro/monk is last man standing

Carry:
Heal party
Healing breeze
orison of healing
Some kind of rez
rez signet
life shiphon
strip enchantment (102 heal yourself not bad)
well of power

max blood magic
max healing prayers
rest in soul reaping

you use your char to heal the other monks. when anybody dies, hit on well of power (if it's your party member rez AFTER well is cast, then breeze that person, orison and heal party) with a minor blood magic rune you get party members +6 life regen and +2 energy regen. add a healing breeze to it and your party member has +14 life regen and +2 energy regen. your team will love you.

[prosbloom]

Check out my guide in the monk forums. I have a pretty good pvp setup listed there. I use a Mo/W because of sprint(and if i ever find a godly holy rod, bonetti's defense)

[prosbloom]

My advise: Forget the monk/?
Use Necro/monk

Reasons: nobody ever suspects the necro for a party healer. You don't get attacked much in PvP. Normally my necro/monk is last man standing

Carry:
Heal party
Healing breeze
orison of healing
Some kind of rez
rez signet
life shiphon
strip enchantment (102 heal yourself not bad)
well of power

max blood magic
max healing prayers
rest in soul reaping

you use your char to heal the other monks. when anybody dies, hit on well of power (if it's your party member rez AFTER well is cast, then breeze that person, orison and heal party) with a minor blood magic rune you get party members +6 life regen and +2 energy regen. add a healing breeze to it and your party member has +14 life regen and +2 energy regen. your team will love you.



If your the last man standing, your not doing your job :)

[Timewalker]

The Mo/? should really read Mo/Me because we are speaking STRICTLY in terms of healing potential.

Run Max Healing Prayers and Divine favor. (do not care about points in mesmer skills except maybe inspiration for energy regen, since echo lasts just long enough at 0 illusion for you to get whatever you need off in time to copy it and 20 seconds is static). Use divine boon (extra 60 healing at 2 mana cost; compare that to 60 healing for 5 mana for the normal orison and you realize that you are doubling the efficacy of your orison for an extra 2 mana and 1 bar of regen). I would also probably run Blessed aura (makes your enchantments last longer, like healing breeze/healing seed). And now we have reason to echo our blessed signet. We don't lose out on mana regeneration since we can use blessed signet to give 6 mana, and do it twice due to echo. We could throw in mantra of inscriptions in order to promote faster blessed signet use too. With mantra of inscriptions we could also use our signet of devotion more often making for even better healing.

Our job is to throw healing breezes that last 15 seconds and act like orisons on all party members that are taking damage.

Or just simply use arcane echo on your word of healing to let you have an extra copy of it. Use inspired hex, drain enchantment, leech signet/drain power for mana regen.

Or if you are doing just balls out I want to heal you to full life in one spell, then then answer will be infuse health. Coupled with divine favor and divine boon this spell can easily heal 400 life. Ok it costs you 250 life. That's what heal area and Aura of Faith on yourself is for. Now I can heal a person for 133% of half my life (assuming 500) adding on 100 more from divine favor and divine boon. 1/3 of 250 ~ 80. So we get 250+80+100=430. And with Aura of Faith + divine favor + divine boon our heal area heals us for 160 +80 (50% from Aura of Faith)+150 (100+50% of 100)=390. And that is much more than the 250 we lost, so when people try to peg us after we have casted our infuse health we can still heal to full.

If it was just single target maximum effect, then you would use a roughly equal combination of divine favor, healing prayers, and protection prayers (runes will help). Cast Aura of Faith and Life attunement on your target (this increases the amount of healing by roughly 90%). Combined with the 330 base from infuse health and ~100 from divine favor/divine boon we get 430+390 (roughly) for a grand total of 820 points healed.

[Hart]

Timewalker - interesting post. I wouldn't say that it's all good ideas, but it definitely gave me some things to think about.

As far as the original question, I would say that it depends on what skills/spells you intend to use. Obviously, the E/Mo won't heal as much per point of mana as the Mo/E. However, if the E/Mo concentrates on carrying the more expensive spells or continual enchantments their larger power reserve can be useful; they also have access to Energy Storage skills that can turn the tide.

I would say that Mo/E is far superior for spamming Orisons, Dwaynas', etc, but that the E/Mo is more efficient when using Aegis, Heal Party, and other whole-party spells that don't benefit from divine favor. Word of Healing also sucks less for E/Mo than Mo/E, but is still a very poor choice for an elite skill.

Also, some skills can really make an E/Mo excel as a healer or a protector - look at Ether Renewal, Ether Prodigy, and Protective Bond.

[Taxed]

If your the last man standing, your not doing your job :)


dunno about that....he does not get attacked. I heal and rez, rez and heal.
I would have to say 1 in 10 or 15 matches I get attacked early. I focus on healing the monks in the party and open a well as soon as a death occurs. He eases the pressure off the monks a great deal, and is normally alive long enough to rez them back. I can't count how many times a team has killed of a monk or both of them, only to not suspect the necro resurrecting them over and over again. It's usually enough to turn the tide if the offensive characters can get some kills as the Wells heal them nicely!

[Morkins the Monk]

All great pointsbut i have decided by myself to go with Mo/N once i can change my secondary profession in the crystal desert i hate having mesmer even though it has huge advantages and a necro can creat low level minions to distract the enemies while i heal. i may go into blood once i start PvPing but for now i am going to focus on this build:

Divine Favor= 11 or 12
Healing Prayers= 15
Blood or Death Magic= 6 or 7

and i will use the rest of the points as i feel neccisary
Thanks for all the suggestions and the great point i may use those suggestions in my next character

[Nadril]

For healing, I love a Mo/Whatever.

I rarly run out of energy unless it is a huge wagon fight, and i need to cast alot of healing breezes/seeds and stuff. Infact, 85% of the time i just use Orison of healing and Word of healing. I have healing breeze incase they have a big health degen, and then healing seed if they are getting attacked alot.

Than i have like healing touch to heal my self, because it heals for a ton for 5 energy :0

Heal other is a waste IMO. Iffy recharge time and doesn't heal "that great". Infact, word of healing would heal the same or more and its only 5 energy, when you need to use a heal other anyways they are probaly lower than 50% energy :D


heh, my monk has a superior healing and divine favor rune, and it kicks wagon :p. I can heal so much. And if I use that one that heals them for like 70 everytime I use a monk skill on 'em, than i'll be set. not sure if i'm going to use it though :) Could be getting something like 200 healing with a Orison of healing, which would cost 7 energy =D


EDIT:

I have thought of using a N/Mo for healing, have a decent ammount in soul reaping :P But then stuff needs to constantly die.

[Jericho Dog]

What do you think is better?

Divine Favor (Primary) or Energy Storage for a Ele/Mo played as a Healing Monk?


answers and reasons please....

thanks!
:scratch:

[EvilSage]

I Personally think Divine Favor.. it gives that little extra heal each time... and I have ~60 energy on my monk as it is

[Sub]

Yes Divine Favor I feel is better

[remylass]

Well, this is just my opinion, but I would go with a monk build if you want to be a healer. I have a level 20 ele/mo, and she does have about 70 points of evergy, but the healing isn't that great. I put several attribute points into it, but I only heal at a pretty slow rate. However, I play with a friend who is a level 20 healing monk, and he is much more useful with the heals when we are in combat.

However, my elementalist monk is pretty good at dealing a lot of damage, but then offering a back up for healing as well.

[Jericho Dog]

What would the difference be between a maxed out Divine Healing stat and a maxed out Energy Storage stat?

would that be 12 x 3pts = 36 energy points?

what does Divine Favor add?

[elbertc]

What would the difference be between a maxed out Divine Healing stat and a maxed out Energy Storage stat?

would that be 12 x 3pts = 36 energy points?

what does Divine Favor add?

Divine Favor adds an additional 3.2(?) health per point while using healing spells.

[gumpygrits]

There's been a ton of threads about this in the past. Here's one of them:

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=352391

I'm sure you can find many more in the Monk Forum.

[jlowry]

If you will be a primary healer, go with Divine Favor. The passive added boost to healing is great...especially when used with Divine Favor skills. Look at Divine Boon for example...quite a bit more healing for only +2 energy per cast! With Peace and Harmony, you maintain +4 energy regen while maintaining an enchantment (like Divine Boon) and end up healing others MUCH LESS often to keep your energy levels functional.

This works especillay well in PvE (PvP players like to strip enchantments, so only the passive bonus will be reliable).

If you want to make a smiter, though, I think an E/Mo (Energy Storage) or Me/Mo (Fast Casting) build would be interesting!

[sylvr]

absolutely, without a doubt, if you are setting up for main healing you NEED to have divine favor when fighting monsters of comparable level.

feel free to run your tests but it essentially boils down to this:

-each level of storage adds 3 energy
-each level of divine favor adds 3.2 life per casting
-lv12 storage adds 36 energy which equates to 7 more orison of healings
-lv12 divine favor adds +38 life to each monk spell

now that the numbers are out in the open, the main factor is healing per second. depending on your equipment, e/mo may be able to heal *a bit* more life, but mo/e will be able to heal faster. in the long run, if you are fighting monsters whose low damage rate is not life threating, storage is superior. if you are fighting monsters who hit hard and fast, ie. mid-end game, divine favor is the option of choice for those looking to keep people alive.

main protection, on the other hand, is all about maintenance. thats where e/mo shine.

[Hurin66]

Wrong Storage is always worse:
a. As an elementalist you can only have 12 healing prayers max
b. You lack divine favor which conserves huge amounts of energy per cast healing wise
c. Energy Storage is only good at the start: you use 30 energy and you or off on the same level as a monk with no benefits and the huge 2 drawbacks stated above.

[daftman]

well, it depends on what type of healing you are doing
For me its better as a ele/mo
Aura of restoration + Other enchantment + Etheral renewal
will probably give you back 4 energy per enchantment

Ele/Mo can heal herself while healing others.

[Hurin66]

well, it depends on what type of healing you are doing
For me its better as a ele/mo
Aura of restoration + Other enchantment + Etheral renewal
will probably give you back 4 energy per enchantment

Ele/Mo can heal herself while healing others.

Total waste of 4 skill slots.

[sylvr]

Wrong Storage is always worse:
a. As an elementalist you can only have 12 healing prayers max
b. You lack divine favor which conserves huge amounts of energy per cast healing wise
c. Energy Storage is only good at the start: you use 30 energy and you or off on the same level as a monk with no benefits and the huge 2 drawbacks stated above.

next time you plan to reply, i would recommend reading the whole post you are replying to.

-each level of storage adds 3 energy
-each level of divine favor adds 3.2 life per casting
-lv12 storage adds 36 energy which equates to 7 more orison of healings
-lv12 divine favor adds +38 life to each monk spell

in the long run, if you are fighting monsters whose low damage rate is not life threating, storage is superior.

lets take a base of 50 energy. 50+36=86 energy with lv12 storage. that is 17 orisons of healing at 60hp a piece (lv12 healing) for a total of 1020 hp.

50+0=50 energy. that is 10 orisons of healing at 60+38=98hp a piece (lv12 healing and divine favor) for a total of 980hp.

1020 > 980

kkthnxywbb.

[GreyRider]

next time you plan to reply, i would recommend reading the whole post you are replying to.

-each level of storage adds 3 energy
-each level of divine favor adds 3.2 life per casting
-lv12 storage adds 36 energy which equates to 7 more orison of healings
-lv12 divine favor adds +38 life to each monk spell

in the long run, if you are fighting monsters whose low damage rate is not life threating, storage is superior.

lets take a base of 50 energy. 50+36=86 energy with lv12 storage. that is 17 orisons of healing at 60hp a piece (lv12 healing) for a total of 1020 hp.

50+0=50 energy. that is 10 orisons of healing at 60+38=98hp a piece (lv12 healing and divine favor) for a total of 980hp.

1020 > 980

kkthnxywbb.
That's great if you are only dealing OOH, you just dished out 40 extra hp :surprise: But with Divine Favor you give heals with almost EVERY skill you use. If you use just 1 protection spell the Mo healed for 38hp, the Ele will heal for 0. Now you have a 2 hp difference, and that is with just 1 prot. skill used.

A protection monk can use Divine Boon with divine favor and deal out protection spells that heal for 99 (61+38) each time (And that is with 0 in Healing). The ElMo can't do that.

Now, don't get me wrong, ElMo's are usefull and I am not knocking them, but there is more to DF than just the 38hp for OOH that you describe.
ok bb

[sylvr]

That's great if you are only dealing OOH, you just dished out 40 extra hp :surprise: But with Divine Favor you give heals with almost EVERY skill you use. If you use just 1 protection spell the Mo healed for 38hp, the Ele will heal for 0. Now you have a 2 hp difference, and that is with just 1 prot. skill used.

A protection monk can use Divine Boon with divine favor and deal out protection spells that heal for 99 (61+38) each time (And that is with 0 in Healing). The ElMo can't do that.

Now, don't get me wrong, ElMo's are usefull and I am not knocking them, but there is more to DF than just the 38hp for OOH that you describe.
ok bb

not faulting you at all; in fact, i completely agree. i just stand by my posts, backed up with math, when IN CONTEXT WITH THE QUESTION AT HAND ie. "what do you think is better for a healing monk?"

[DaFrozenFlame]

As a E/mo ur not primairy target and are ussually able to keep healing others instead of having to worry about healing urself.

As a Mo you heal more powerfull and ussually is on of the first targets

[jlowry]

If you want an "alternate" build to cookie-cutters (a reason I think is plausible for you considering a E/Mo for a healer), then I'd suggest being a protection/nuker. No, you will not be healing, but protection skills help healer monks out a LOT (as well as team members)! And, there are far too few protection players out there IMO. You'd benefit from a large energy pool and be able to provide services that normal healer monks tend to overlook (simple because they cannot invest skill slots or attributes too thinly). Just a suggestion, of course... :)

Of course, to get into groups you can always offer your services as a nuker....if only as a tertiary skill set.

[Radiant Mend]

Go Monk as primary....


Because who would want to be called an "elmo"?

[Newbiebad]

Go Monk as primary....


Because who would want to be called an "elmo"?

For pure healing I would go for monk primary as everyone has discussed. Having tried both protection and smiting monks... I prefer the El/Mo versions. Casting multiple balthazar's/aegis etc in a battle out weigh the divine bonus IMO.

When I do go El/Mo Healing Prayers I like to use ether prodigy or ether renewal for large chunks of energy. Without divine favor you should use the large spells that don't depend as much on it. Seed, Healing Breeze, Heal Other.. or even a spell like vigorous spirit which could hardly care less if you have 0 divine favor. Personally I'm a big fan of heal area as well. In PvE on a decent team I'm usually in the back while our tanks block for us and try to keep the monsters on them. Pretty energy efficient if you can get yourself and at least one other person. Of course you heal melee enemies but that's not too big of a problem outside of PvP.

A few points in earth really helps those wards + armor of earth (well... at least I can spend less energy worrying about myself) can really help a group. More than those same points to absolutely reach 12 healing prayers.

[Funky Monkey]

If you split between healing protection and energy storage you'll have a very strong healer with spells such as life attunement.

[Mirk]

What do you think is better?

Divine Favor (Primary) or Energy Storage for a Ele/Mo played as a Healing Monk?


answers and reasons please....

thanks!
:scratch:

Well primary monks are better in my opinion,so if you are gonna focus on Healing,protection,most of your gameplay,monk is the way to go,cause there skills are more powerful,cause you can use runes..gear..etc :happy34:

[sylvr]

If you split between healing protection and energy storage you'll have a very strong healer with spells such as life attunement.

more like mediocre at everything and not particularly good at anything.

but hey, if your goal is to strive for "meh" then thats up to you.

[woflborg]

As a E/mo ur not primairy target and are ussually able to keep healing others instead of having to worry about healing urself.

As a Mo you heal more powerfull and ussually is on of the first targets

This all depends. On your team and how much fuss you want to go through playing the character.

Under the right circumstances/skillsets elmo can be far more quicker and stronger healer with infuse health and ether renewal self heals than any 'normal monk'. But this will last for only 10 seconds, but it will also recharge your energy to full in those 10 seconds.

Also if you plan on using quickening zephyr in the party, this will let you run ether renewal nearly all the time, turning the elmo into a machine that throws 160hp heals twice a second with no energy used. Infinite spam. And be nearly unkillable unless rended or disturbed at the right spot.

Many pvp guilds are aware of this and they target these healers for sure, sometimes prioritising even over monks.

Just for pve and common/random teams its better to be the cookiecutter mo/x. Its just far more easier to play and manage teambuildwise. Necro is a great secondary with offering of blood, while it doesnt give you infinite energy it still kicks the crap outta peace and harmony.

Also for pve and pvp, one great combination is a el/mo who runs max element + 8-10 protection + rest points in energy storage. Just pick life barrier and toss it on your monk. Rest skills for damagedealing.
Sure, you have to do without you favourite elementalist elite, but this template lets you cut down the damage by 40% on your teams monk (or someone else in pve) while still having three arrows of regen and lots of energy for spamming your favourite spells.

[Torry]

Nothing is black and white in GW! Dont discard the ElMo that easily.

Using Ether Prodigy at times on my ElW, she has 8 arrows of mana regen. I would miss out the DF bonus allright, but the healing over time would probably be better healing wise compared to MoEl. Can keep up Prodigy nonstop as far as I recall (nukes enchantments I know). 8 arrows mana regen x 14 Healing skill figures, no DF bonus, > 4 (or 5) mana regen x 14 healing skill, as example?

No Healing Touch, no WoH, you would then need to rely on Heal Other a lot I guess for spike healing. Spamming of Orison and Kiss for normal heals.

Breeze is not much used, but as pointed out elsewhere here, bringing a +20% to enchantment durations would be interesting on this one. I got a sword giving that bonus, and it adds a lot of healing.. So with a 12 DF? 180+36+20% duration maybe = 30 = 240ish heal? This correct??

The notion that ElMo has much better mana regen playing a monk is not really true either. Prodigy is the only one a MoEl cant use (Renewal we forget here, no time to self focus that much as healer).

I've been considering to run Group Heal + Glyph of Energy. Then I could pump a group heal every 15 seconds for 5 mana. Not bad. Even if ppl spike in pvP, ppl often run around half wounded.

Even Glyph of lesser would allow the same effect every 30 secs.

So a MoEl got access to much of the mana regen a ElMo has..

The mana pool? Who cares? MoEl can have a large mana pool too if they seek it, large enough. It is not a big deal.

One more thing. For me, the most important issue right now is how to defend. I know how to heal efficiently. It is self defense that is my Achilles heel.

If you could cut damage 40% on monks, you would also save a lot of healing.

Right now, I think that MoEl with Armour of Earth is the easiest choice.
I play MoMe, defending with hex breaker and possibly Elemental resistance + shield + +10phys armour.
MoW is also good with bonettis and Watch Yourself (cant be removed!). Remember that WURSELF removes 25% of incoming damage. AMAZING!! Why dont ppl use that more? Weird.

back to the issue at hand here, ElMo and MoEl probably defense likewise, except that ElMo has access to +15 lightning armour, which is probably a better bet.

[Sigrun Darkbane]

If you're going to be primary healer in HoH, in my opinion, you need to be a monk primary to have Divine Favor. For protection I would agree that an E/Mo can be used effectively and maybe some other class combinations such as N/Mo however for a primary healer anything other than monk primary aren’t going to cut it. The problem with E/Mo's is just that there heals are too small and the cool downs are too long for such small heals. Teams now are getting all their top end runes and weapons and are very coordinated and most can do a ton of damage in a very short time frame and you need some skills such as Divine Boon to be able to heal fast enough and for large enough amounts to keep your team alive. I personally like to play a Mo/E so that I can bring a few defensive skills for when I get swarmed by the opposing teams. Here's a setup I've had a lot of success with recently. I usually play this with attribute points setup in Healing/Divine/Earth and am wearing a superior vigor rune, a minor healing rune, a minor divine rune and +hp or +energy staff heads.

Monk/Elementalist

Word of Healing
Orison of Healing
Healing Touch
Healing Seed
Mend Ailment
Divine Boon
Armor of Earth
Ward against melee or elements

Divine Boon is applied to yourself before the fight and it will significantly increase your healing output. Word of Healing and Healing Seed are used to heal team mates. Although, Orison of Healing and Healing Touch can be used to heal others I find it is best to save these for self healing unless a team mate needs a quick heal and the cool down is not ready for Word of Healing. I find armor of earth and a ward are really helpful too as being the monk you can expect to be swarmed and some defensive skills are nice to have. Depending on how you're team is setup either Ward Against Melee or Ward Against Elements will do. Personally, I don't believe that in tombs matches monks should even be carrying a rez as they are almost always targeted first and are barely ever able to get a rez off. Usually the people that are dead first are the monks and it is more effective to have another member of the team doing the rez (most of the time I prefer warriors to be using rez as they can get the rez off and sustain the damage they take in the process). Also if a monk is busy using a rez he is not healing and his team is going to take a ton of damage and someone will most likely die.

PVE is a different story completely and most monk secondaries played well can get you through the missions. Most missions can even be done without monks.

[Nereid]

Can a monk primary

-Output 350+ healing per second for 0e? Every 10 seconds out of 15?
-Permanently be outputting ~50 dmg per second?
-Never run out of energy & never need healing?

I didn't think so either. E/mo enchanter 4tw.

Of course the build has its weaknesses. Thing is they can easily be gotten around by packing Spellbreaker, QZ & Signet of Judgement. Other than that there's the nature renewal spammer... work on your backup battery-monk while the rest of your team takes that ******* out

[Sigrun Darkbane]

Can a monk primary

-Output 350+ healing per second for 0e? Every 10 seconds out of 15?
-Permanently be outputting ~50 dmg per second?
-Never run out of energy & never need healing?

I didn't think so either. E/mo enchanter 4tw.

Of course the build has its weaknesses. Thing is they can easily be gotten around by packing Spellbreaker, QZ & Signet of Judgement. Other than that there's the nature renewal spammer... work on your backup battery-monk while the rest of your team takes that ******* out

Take the E/Mo build to the tombs and try to play it as primary monk and it will not work nearly as well as you're suggesting. You won't be putting out 50 dmg per second if you're trying to heal your group at the level of a primary monk. Furthermore, you're heals are so much smaller than that of a primary monk with Divine Boon and Word of Healing that you would have to be spamming your little heals constantly on various team members and you still wouldn't be able to keep up. This is why none of the top/good teams use E/Mo's for primary monks, there heals can't cut it for primary and the damage argument is just nonsense because they won't be healing adequately if they are trying to maintain the DPS and any decent team uses enchant removals on monks. The extra bonus from being an Elementalist is your energy storage and it's been proven over and over on these forums and at GW Guru that it's not worth it.

Any good team has several enchantments strips that will simply render all your damage dealing obsolete and will do large amounts of damage to you (ie. Mesmers Shatter Enchantment). What enchantments are you going to use because all of the decent ones such as Balthazar’s Aura have high energy cost (Balthazar’s Aura takes 25 energy, most of the others take 10 or 15) and therefore you’re wasting more energy that you should be using for healing your team.

In terms of your points:

"-Output 350+ healing per second for 0e? Every 10 seconds out of 15?"

A monk with stats in Healing and Divine that uses Divine Boon will out heal you no matter what you seem to think. E/Mo's need to spam three or so heals to get the effectiveness of the primary monks one, plus your heals are so much less effective you have to deal with the cool downs on those heals a lot more because you need to keep the heals coming for your team.

"-Permanently be outputting ~50 dmg per second?"

This is just nonsense. Try to heal a tombs or HoH group as primary monk and see if you can output this much damage. Every guild has fooled around with primary healers as E/Mo and none of them have stuck with them. That should tell you something. If you're primary healer your healing your team you don't have time to be sustaining this much damage or wasting the energy on it.

"-Never run out of energy & never need healing?"

You will run out of energy when you're facing good teams with decent mesmers. You will be spamming your little heals constantly to get close to same effectiveness as the monk. No matter what you use Ether Renewal, Ether Prodigy etc. because you have to spam so many heals you will run out of energy eventually. Not to mention there are negative effects of using energy storage abiltities.

I'd be curious how you think you'd never need healing. If you're playing primary monk on a tombs team as an E/Mo and they realize you have no monk, they're coming for you first and no matter what wards etc. you have your heals as an E/Mo don't have a chance of standing up to a full 8 man group wailing on you. With all the heals you would need to bring as an E/Mo your barely even going to be able to bring any defensive skills or more than 2 damage skills.

It’s important to note that all my comments apply to tombs and only tombs. In random arenas enchantment E/Mos as healers work fine because you are not dealing with nearly as much damage and most groups aren’t organized enough to use Shatter Enchantments etc.

[Nereid]

Take the E/Mo build to the tombs and try to play it as primary monk and it will not work nearly as well as you're suggesting. You won't be putting out 50 dmg per second if you're trying to heal your group at the level of a primary monk. Furthermore, you're heals are so much smaller than that of a primary monk with Divine Boon and Word of Healing that you would have to be spamming your little heals constantly on various team members and you still wouldn't be able to keep up. This is why none of the top/good teams use E/Mo's for primary monks, there heals can't cut it for primary and the damage argument is just nonsense because they won't be healing adequately if they are trying to maintain the DPS and any decent team uses enchant removals on monks. The extra bonus from being an Elementalist is your energy storage and it's been proven over and over on these forums and at GW Guru that it's not worth it.

Any good team has several enchantments strips that will simply render all your damage dealing obsolete and will do large amounts of damage to you (ie. Mesmers Shatter Enchantment). What enchantments are you going to use because all of the decent ones such as Balthazar’s Aura have high energy cost (Balthazar’s Aura takes 25 energy, most of the others take 10 or 15) and therefore you’re wasting more energy that you should be using for healing your team.

In terms of your points:

"-Output 350+ healing per second for 0e? Every 10 seconds out of 15?"

A monk with stats in Healing and Divine that uses Divine Boon will out heal you no matter what you seem to think. E/Mo's need to spam three or so heals to get the effectiveness of the primary monks one, plus your heals are so much less effective you have to deal with the cool downs on those heals a lot more because you need to keep the heals coming for your team.

"-Permanently be outputting ~50 dmg per second?"

This is just nonsense. Try to heal a tombs or HoH group as primary monk and see if you can output this much damage. Every guild has fooled around with primary healers as E/Mo and none of them have stuck with them. That should tell you something. If you're primary healer your healing your team you don't have time to be sustaining this much damage or wasting the energy on it.

"-Never run out of energy & never need healing?"

You will run out of energy when you're facing good teams with decent mesmers. You will be spamming your little heals constantly to get close to same effectiveness as the monk. No matter what you use Ether Renewal, Ether Prodigy etc. because you have to spam so many heals you will run out of energy eventually. Not to mention there are negative effects of using energy storage abiltities.

I'd be curious how you think you'd never need healing. If you're playing primary monk on a tombs team as an E/Mo and they realize you have no monk, they're coming for you first and no matter what wards etc. you have your heals as an E/Mo don't have a chance of standing up to a full 8 man group wailing on you. With all the heals you would need to bring as an E/Mo your barely even going to be able to bring any defensive skills or more than 2 damage skills.

It’s important to note that all my comments apply to tombs and only tombs. In random arenas enchantment E/Mos as healers work fine because you are not dealing with nearly as much damage and most groups aren’t organized enough to use Shatter Enchantments etc.Spellbreaker, spellbreaker, spellbreaker.

I can be outputting 350+ healing per instant cast no recharge (usually 250-300 without help) & healing myself for that amount at the same time. Small heals? *shrug* You tell me.

It doesn't really take much "effort" to put up zealot's fire + the occasional Balthazar's

[Sigrun Darkbane]

Spellbreaker, spellbreaker, spellbreaker.

I can be outputting 350+ healing per instant cast no recharge (usually 250-300 without help) & healing myself for that amount at the same time. Small heals? *shrug* You tell me.

It doesn't really take much "effort" to put up zealot's fire + the occasional Balthazar's

As I said in my above post Spellbreaker will be stripped by any good team almost immediately. It is one of the most noticeable enchantments and it can be removed.

I really want to hear what skills you're using that outputs 350+ healing per instant cast without having high attribute points in Divine skills which only a monk primary has. With max healing attribute points in an E/Mo here is the description of some of the main healing skills.

Dwayne’s Kiss - Heal target other ally for 51 points and an additional 17 points for each Enchantment or Hex. Also takes 10 energy.

Heal Area - Heal all surrounding creatures for 151 points. Completely useless for healing your team as you need to be in close proximity and it also heals enemies.

Heal Other - Heal target other ally for 151 points. Probably, your best option for a non elite healing skill to heal your party however it once again takes 10 energy.

Heal Party - Heal entire party for 67 points. Takes 15 energy.

Healing Breeze - For 10 seconds ally gains health regeneration of 8. Most people will agree in tombs this is a waste of a space because teams can do much more damage than this can recover and it doesn't give any instant heal.

Healing Hands - Elite Enchantment. For 10 seconds, whenever target ally is struck by an attack, that ally is healed for 21 points. If you bring this you can't bring Spellbreaker.

Healing Seed - For 18 seconds, whenever target other ally takes damage, that ally and all adjacent allies gain 25 health. Great skill for a primary healer. This takes 15 energy.

Healing Touch - Heal target touched ally for 51 points. Health gained from Divine Favor is doubled by this spell. This is possibly one of the best spells there are for a primary monk for self healing. Not having Divine Boon or attributes in Divine really hurts it's effectiveness as an E/Mo. This also can be used on team mates however due to its proximity requirement it is best for self healing.

Word of Healing - Elite Spell. Heal target other ally for 67 points. Heal for an additional 83 points if that ally is below 50% Health. This is a personal favorite of mine and when used along side Divine Boon on a primary monk with high Divine attributes can lead to really efficient large heals. It only costs 5 energy as well, but when applied to your build if you bring this you can't bring Spellbreaker and it won't be nearly as effective when compared to a Boon primary monk.

There are a few more healing spells however the ones listed above give a good representation of the healing power you will have as an E/Mo with maxed out Healing attributes. To get the same heals as a primary Boon monk you will be using higher energy cost spells and they still will not be as effective. Please explain which skills or skill combinations you plan on using to get a 350+ instant cast heal on an E/Mo that you can use regularly throughout the fight.

Also, please name each of the skills you would plan on taking because in your other post you stated you'd be doing 50+ DPS, you'd never run out of energy and be doing the healing of a primary monk. You can only take 8 skills so how exactly are you going to do all of what you originally said and what skills will you be using? Primary monks usually take 4 different healing spells if not 5 and you've also made Spellbreaker crucial to your build, so I'm assuming you can only have 3 other skills with you. Here's what you originally said again:



Originally Posted by Nerid
Can a monk primary

-Output 350+ healing per second for 0e? Every 10 seconds out of 15?
-Permanently be outputting ~50 dmg per second?
-Never run out of energy & never need healing?

I didn't think so either. E/mo enchanter 4tw.

Of course the build has its weaknesses. Thing is they can easily be gotten around by packing Spellbreaker, QZ & Signet of Judgement. Other than that there's the nature renewal spammer... work on your backup battery-monk while the rest of your team takes that ******* out


The E/Mo build that you've alluded to, since you haven't even named any skills other than Spellbreaker, simply can't do all this and can’t heal as efficiently as a primary monk. Do you honestly think that the top guilds/teams use monk primaries simply because they have never tried an E/Mo as a monk before? Most people have tried it and E/Mo’s as primary healers can never sustain the damage and heal efficiently enough to make it in GvG or HoH.

[Cantos]

Can a monk primary

-Output 350+ healing per second for 0e? Every 10 seconds out of 15?
-Permanently be outputting ~50 dmg per second?
-Never run out of energy & never need healing?

I didn't think so either. E/mo enchanter 4tw.

How can an E/Mo do that?

[Nereid]

Ah I had it typed up, but I think i'll just leave it to you guys to figure it out like I did. It IS possible & very simple once you look back at it(although counter intuitive).

The top guilds haven't already discovered everything. It's so hard to get into real pvp in this game it's really no surprise seeing all the cookie cutter builds there.

I'm more interested in how spellbreaker is "easily removed" because i have yet to encounter anything other than nature renewals. Chilblains? lol

[TW III]

The E/Mo is an ether renewal smiter(good job at playing the FotM build btw, just as spectacular as an air spiker). Nothing spectacular and can only heal himself. And really... the top guilds haven't discovered everything yet? Alpha players have played just about everything. The only reason they don't play a good working build is if it doesnt fit the metagame.

[LynGrey]

The Ele/Mo class is chumpy and very very easy to shut down.. Backfire/energy denial ruins their day/soul leech

I like the Mo/Me.... they still suffer fromBackfire. thats why youcast Energy tap skills to drain mez's out of Energy or Make some one your new battery. My Monk is Pro/heal/Insipration. My ENergy hardly every runs out. In GvG Channeling is very useful.

[Sigrun Darkbane]

Ah I had it typed up, but I think i'll just leave it to you guys to figure it out like I did. It IS possible & very simple once you look back at it(although counter intuitive).

The top guilds haven't already discovered everything. It's so hard to get into real pvp in this game it's really no surprise seeing all the cookie cutter builds there.

I'm more interested in how spellbreaker is "easily removed" because i have yet to encounter anything other than nature renewals. Chilblains? lol

Right..... Frankly, the only reason you don't name skills is simply because you don't have a build that can do even close to all of what you've originally said, end of story. We don't need to figure anything out here because everyone has tried the E/Mo healer thing since the days of the BWEs. If you think that the top guilds haven't discovered/tried an E/Mo as healer you really need to take a step into reality. Honestly, do you think through all the BWE's and alpha testing and since the games release not one person other than you has thought of a good E/Mo healer build? It just doesn't work like you seem to think it does.

Don't even bother mentioning cookie cutter builds as not one person has suggested a cookie cutter build. There is a difference between cookie cutter builds and just pure useless builds like the one you're eluding too. The build you have eluded too has way too many flaws and can't heal nearly as effectively as a primary boon monk to be considered viable.

I also don't see how you think it's so hard to get into real PVP in this game. Perhaps you need a more PVP oriented guild; there are tons of them. I know lots of people that have all skills including elites for almost every class, myself included, and we can run whatever build we want whenever we want. How exactly is this not real PVP in your definition? Your comments on this are just laughable at best. Most of the people I group with have tons of skills and more faction then they know what to do with.

The fact that you don't understand how Spellbreaker is easily removed/countered (in more than one way) leads me to believe you must be new to the game or simply don't have a lot of experience in GvG/tombs/HoH. If you honestly think that nature’s renewal is the only thing that can counter Spellbreaker you’re truly clueless about skills from other classes and haven't read many posts here. Furthermore, you mention Chillblains which no one else even mentioned. Spellbreaker will be countered by any good group and frankly with the build you've suggested they wouldn't even have to bother shutting you down since you won't be able to heal enough to keep your team alive anyways.... I mean primary healer as an E/Mo that takes Spellbreaker as his elite instead of some of the better elite skills is a joke. Anyways, keep running E/Mo as a primary healer, more free faction and fame for the rest of us.

In closing, either show us some skills and give a reasonable explanation that is more than you’re previous posts, which were basically the equivalent of “My E/Mo can do everything a monk can do and much more. LOL” or just get used to having your posts disregarded as nonsense.

[Cantos]

Ah I had it typed up, but I think i'll just leave it to you guys to figure it out like I did. It IS possible & very simple once you look back at it(although counter intuitive).

:rolleyes:

[Nereid]

Right..... Frankly, the only reason you don't name skills is simply because you don't have a build that can do even close to all of what you've originally said, end of story. We don't need to figure anything out here because everyone has tried the E/Mo healer thing since the days of the BWEs. If you think that the top guilds haven't discovered/tried an E/Mo as healer you really need to take a step into reality. Honestly, do you think through all the BWE's and alpha testing and since the games release not one person other than you has thought of a good E/Mo healer build? It just doesn't work like you seem to think it does.

Don't even bother mentioning cookie cutter builds as not one person has suggested a cookie cutter build. There is a difference between cookie cutter builds and just pure useless builds like the one you're eluding too. The build you have eluded too has way too many flaws and can't heal nearly as effectively as a primary boon monk to be considered viable.

I also don't see how you think it's so hard to get into real PVP in this game. Perhaps you need a more PVP oriented guild; there are tons of them. I know lots of people that have all skills including elites for almost every class, myself included, and we can run whatever build we want whenever we want. How exactly is this not real PVP in your definition? Your comments on this are just laughable at best. Most of the people I group with have tons of skills and more faction then they know what to do with.

The fact that you don't understand how Spellbreaker is easily removed/countered (in more than one way) leads me to believe you must be new to the game or simply don't have a lot of experience in GvG/tombs/HoH. If you honestly think that nature’s renewal is the only thing that can counter Spellbreaker you’re truly clueless about skills from other classes and haven't read many posts here. Furthermore, you mention Chillblains which no one else even mentioned. Spellbreaker will be countered by any good group and frankly with the build you've suggested they wouldn't even have to bother shutting you down since you won't be able to heal enough to keep your team alive anyways.... I mean primary healer as an E/Mo that takes Spellbreaker as his elite instead of some of the better elite skills is a joke. Anyways, keep running E/Mo as a primary healer, more free faction and fame for the rest of us.

In closing, either show us some skills and give a reasonable explanation that is more than you’re previous posts, which were basically the equivalent of “My E/Mo can do everything a monk can do and much more. LOL” or just get used to having your posts disregarded as nonsense.keep truckin', kiddo. Who knows - maybe you won't have to quit the insults and actually think for yourself after all. This healing build is just a short step from the current smiter build & someone else other than me might soon start popularizing it

But it's not a random team build seeing as you generally need both QZ & spellbreaker in your team. I didn't say anywhere that the build itself has to have spellbreaker, genius. SB is in divine favor.

[Sigrun Darkbane]

keep truckin', kiddo. Who knows - maybe you won't have to quit the insults and actually think for yourself after all. This healing build is just a short step from the current smiter build & someone else other than me might soon start popularizing it


I'm not insulting you personally in any way so you can keep the personal attacks to yourself. I'm saying the build you have alluded to, since you haven't named skills/attribute points/or virtually anything, can't do all of what you have suggested and I am not the only one who has said this. The healing build being a short step from the current smiting build is irrelevant because they are used for entirely different purposes and your build is not getting any benefit from being an E/Mo other than your energy storage and for that you pay a cost of using higher energy skills and having less efficient healing. I understand quite well how the E/Mo smiter build works and the advantages don't apply to an E/Mo healing build. For an example of an E/Mo smiting build I've used and helped perfect with many others see a video I made that was posted here and on some other forums last month here (Divx format) (http://files.filefront.com/SD_EMoSolo/;3873681;;/fileinfo.html) .

Do you always accuse someone who disagrees with you of not thinking for themselves? Then the sentence right after you accuse me of not thinking for myself you talk about how the build you’ve alluded too is a short step away from the current FoTM smiting build. Get real. You have barely even suggested a build you just simply started out by saying how much better an E/Mo is at primary healing. I will again post your original post in the bottom of this response in hopes you actually explain how you will do what you say you can. Others have asked it as well, if it's so simple why don't you simply answer the question people have posed?



But it's not a random team build seeing as you generally need both QZ & spellbreaker in your team. I didn't say anywhere that the build itself has to have spellbreaker, genius. SB is in divine favor.


Did I say Spellbreaker was not divine favor? No and neither did anyone else. You don't seem to understand that because it is Divine Favor is what makes it suck so hard for an E/Mo! An E/Mo which doesn't get Divine Favor attribute points and can't wear monk runes has a Spellbreaker that costs 15 energy, lasts 5 seconds and has a 45 second recharge time. 5 second Spellbreaker is a joke in Tombs/HoH/GvG. Then you wonder why I'm mentioning Spellbreaker..... Could it be because it's the only skill you've mentioned so far and it is possibly the worst choice of an elite skill for an E/Mo that is trying to play as a primary healer.

If you're going to come on the forums and make claims, such as the following which was your original post, be prepared to back them up.



Can a monk primary

-Output 350+ healing per second for 0e? Every 10 seconds out of 15?
-Permanently be outputting ~50 dmg per second?
-Never run out of energy & never need healing?

I didn't think so either. E/mo enchanter 4tw.

Of course the build has its weaknesses. Thing is they can easily be gotten around by packing Spellbreaker, QZ & Signet of Judgement. Other than that there's the nature renewal spammer... work on your backup battery-monk while the rest of your team takes that ******* out

[Monk Pvp]

Can a monk primary

-Output 350+ healing per second for 0e? Every 10 seconds out of 15?
-Permanently be outputting ~50 dmg per second?
-Never run out of energy & never need healing?

I didn't think so either. E/mo enchanter 4tw.

Of course the build has its weaknesses. Thing is they can easily be gotten around by packing Spellbreaker, QZ & Signet of Judgement. Other than that there's the nature renewal spammer... work on your backup battery-monk while the rest of your team takes that ******* out
ROFL. You will never be doing all this with an E/Mo. For primary healing you need boon and high attribute points in divine which you can't get with an E/Mo. Several of the divine skills will add a certain amount of heal to every monk skill you use and to be efficient you need attribute points in divine. An E/Mo isn't even close to be able to sustain what you've just said. Post the build because several people have asked to see it and you've just ignored them which makes it seem like you don't really know what you're talking about. From reading all the posts in this thread and looking at the numbers it also just sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.

[TW III]

Actually an E/MO can do exactly that. It's just that he can only heal himself and becomes totally useless once signet of humility is casted on him/ his ether renewal is disabled, interrupted or removed. It's nothing special.

[Monk Pvp]

Actually an E/MO can do exactly that. It's just that he can only heal himself and becomes totally useless once signet of humility is casted on him/ his ether renewal is disabled, interrupted or removed. It's nothing special.
Yes, he might be able to keep himself alive, but Nereid is suggesting using this as a primary healer for a team which it will obviously not work well for. Not to mention the many obvious counters to this build, including the ones you've mentioned.

[Nereid]

blah blah every build has counters. If mesmers rape monks so bad, why do people still pack monks at all?

Learn the limits of your theorycraft, ppl.

I checked through everything I said & there wasn't a single erroneous fact. Don't believe it? *shrug* I have nothing to prove to you. Perhaps if you guys weren't so antagonistic I'd have already posted it. As it is this is probably the last semi-helpful post i'm making in this thread.


To recap
E/mo
200-300 heals instant cast (big hint there) every 10 out of 15(30) seconds. 350+ with 2 select support spells from teammates.
No real need to be healed per se & definately no need to look at energy bar.
Great dmg/sec (although I think we've figured out the spells here)


Someone actually use their head instead of blindly copying builds. This isn't that hard.

[Monk Pvp]

blah blah every build has counters. If mesmers rape monks so bad, why do people still pack monks at all?

Learn the limits of your theorycraft, ppl.

I checked through everything I said & there wasn't a single erroneous fact. Don't believe it? *shrug* I have nothing to prove to you. Perhaps if you guys weren't so antagonistic I'd have already posted it. As it is this is probably the last semi-helpful post i'm making in this thread.


To recap
E/mo
200-300 heals instant cast (big hint there) every 10 out of 15(30) seconds. 350+ with 2 select support spells from teammates.
No real need to be healed per se & definately no need to look at energy bar.
Great dmg/sec (although I think we've figured out the spells here)


Someone actually use their head instead of blindly copying builds. This isn't that hard.
ROFL. So once again your rebuttal comes down to saying that all the people that don't like your build aren't using their head and are just blindly copying builds...... I think you just need to face it that your build here sucks and that it does nothing extremely well and several things simply reasonably. You really don't seem to have a clue. In terms of posting something useful, you haven't posted anything useful in this entire thread so perhaps you should stop flaming others and show us a build, or anything at all for that matter, because most people can easily see what you've suggested sucks and doesn't work well for a primary healer in Tombs. It’s ok though you keep accusing everyone of not thinking simply because your suggested build is weak and has been thought up and tried by most guilds months ago. Some of the people, other than you, in this thread have actually posted thought out responses and have help to create good working builds but you just seem to flame them if they think yours sucks. By your logic no one, other than you, thinks for themselves because I can't seem to find anyone that thinks your build is good.......

Notice how you changed what you're saying what you can do now as well. Take a look at your original post:



Can a monk primary

-Output 350+ healing per second for 0e? Every 10 seconds out of 15?
-Permanently be outputting ~50 dmg per second?
-Never run out of energy & never need healing?

I didn't think so either. E/mo enchanter 4tw.

Of course the build has its weaknesses. Thing is they can easily be gotten around by packing Spellbreaker, QZ & Signet of Judgement. Other than that there's the nature renewal spammer... work on your backup battery-monk while the rest of your team takes that ******* out

P.S. It always seems like the only people that constantly bring up the primary healing E/Mo topic are people that haven’t played any of the other classes. I have never ever run into a group in HoH that uses an E/Mo as primary healer and we won't be seeing one soon. Club G in testing used to run one monk and have support characters for secondary healers however people figured this out very quickly and since then they have gave up on the idea and started running with more monks.

[Boofhead]

200-300 heals instant cast must be infuse health
support spells must be vital blessing and something like fertile season/symbiosis (?) and maybe protective spirit/bond (if that works for health lost to infuse health)

[Monk Pvp]

200-300 heals instant cast must be infuse health
support spells must be vital blessing and something like fertile season/symbiosis (?) and maybe protective spirit/bond (if that works for health lost to infuse health)

Here's the infuse health description:

-Lose half your current health. Target other ally is healed for 100-129% of the amount you lost.

That's possibly one of the worst skills that a primary healer could bring into Tombs. The problem with the build he's suggested is that it doesn't do anything really well. He does mediocre amounts of damage at best and has a less than desirable healing ability for his party. Sure, he might be able to spam heals on himself but what good is a primary healer that can only heal himself.... He gets NO ADVANTAGE FROM BEING AN E/MO other than getting a larger energy pool and for that he has to use higher energy cost spells, can't heal his team very well, can't wear monk armor/runes and most importantly can't use any of the divine skills at an acceptable level. He might as well be a monk primary especially since he hasn't mentioned one Ele skill yet....

[neoflame]

E/mo
200-300 heals instant cast (big hint there) every 10 out of 15(30) seconds.
Diversion spam and Nature's Renewal (and neither is particularly rare nowadays) kills E/Mo smiters dead. Oops! Never mind the fact that the rest of your team had better be ready for that Quickening Zephyr you seem to be so reliant on. Oh, and since this thread is about healers, your score is roughly 0, because while you may be able to outselfheal most random collateral damage, you can't heal teammates very competently, and as soon as your selfhealing really matters (i.e. you come under fire and a Mesmer looks at you funny), you're dead.

The E/Mo smiter is nothing new, or even particularly original anymore.

For anyone wondering: The base skills are usually Aura of Restoration, Zealot's Fire, Ether Renewal, and Draw Conditions, Divine Boon, or both.

[Boofhead]

He must be using Ether Renewal (can't be Ether Prodigy as that would remove Vital Blessing and his other enchantments).
That would give him 4 energy for every enchantment - so he'd only need 3 enchantments for a free Infuse Health (Infuse Health costs 10 energy), and he's gaining 17 health for each enchantment per cast as well.
He can't use Divine Boon or Divine Spirit effectively as these require points in divine favour.

So he probably has: Aura of Restoration, Zealot's Fire, Ether Renewal, Draw Conditions, Vital Blessing...
which leaves 3 which could be heal other, heal party, healing seed, perhaps heal area, less likely to be orison or dwayna's kiss with no divine favour bonus, or maybe another enchantment type spell like healing breeze, mending (lol), live vicariously etc etc, basically your preference of healing spells here...

That'd mean he has at least Aura of Restoration, Zealot's Fire, Vital Blessing, maybe another enchantment cast on him by an ally (especially Protective Spirit if it works with Infuse Health).
So for every Infuse Health cast he's gaining maximum 35 health from Aura of Restoration, and if he's also using Ether Renewal he'll get another maximum 17 per enchantment (total 68 for 4 enchantments) and 4 energy (16 for 4 enchantments)...
However, Ether Renewal lasts 10 seconds and has a cooldown of 30 seconds, which is why he qualifies it with "200-300 heals instant cast (big hint there) every 10 out of 15(30) seconds."

[Monk Pvp]

That'd mean he has at least Aura of Restoration, Zealot's Fire, Vital Blessing, maybe another enchantment cast on him by an ally (especially Protective Spirit if it works with Infuse Health).
So for every Infuse Health cast he's gaining maximum 35 health from Aura of Restoration, and if he's also using Ether Renewal he'll get another maximum 17 per enchantment (total 68 for 4 enchantments) and 4 energy (16 for 4 enchantments)...
However, Ether Renewal lasts 10 seconds and has a cooldown of 30 seconds, which is why he qualifies it with "200-300 heals instant cast (big hint there) every 10 out of 15(30) seconds."
Thanks for the numbers. I hope your post, and the others, give him some idea of the vast array of problems with his build and how easy it is to shut down and render useless. You could kill him with strip enchantments and backfire alone but you wouldn't even need to because he's not able to sustain his team with his lackluster healing ability.

P.S. If you're bringing Aura of Restoration into the PVP matches I would strongly recommend you think again. This is a great PVE skill but in PVP don't waste a skill slot on an enchantment that doesn't give you or your team much benefit. A tombs team are barely even going to notice you have that on you because it's benefit is not nearly enough to make it worth it or have it matter. It also provides the other team another nice enchantment to use Shatter Enchantment on and do some serious dmg to you.

[STINGER]

There are countless ways to heal and there is no "best". I saw some builds on paper in testing that left you wonder what the hell were they healing with! I personally ran a few builds that relied on Infuse Health as the main heal of the 8 man team and kicked arse with it.

[Cantos]

[...]

Nice work! I am so stealing that.

[Nereid]

He must be using Ether Renewal (can't be Ether Prodigy as that would remove Vital Blessing and his other enchantments).
That would give him 4 energy for every enchantment - so he'd only need 3 enchantments for a free Infuse Health (Infuse Health costs 10 energy), and he's gaining 17 health for each enchantment per cast as well.
He can't use Divine Boon or Divine Spirit effectively as these require points in divine favour.

So he probably has: Aura of Restoration, Zealot's Fire, Ether Renewal, Draw Conditions, Vital Blessing...
which leaves 3 which could be heal other, heal party, healing seed, perhaps heal area, less likely to be orison or dwayna's kiss with no divine favour bonus, or maybe another enchantment type spell like healing breeze, mending (lol), live vicariously etc etc, basically your preference of healing spells here...

That'd mean he has at least Aura of Restoration, Zealot's Fire, Vital Blessing, maybe another enchantment cast on him by an ally (especially Protective Spirit if it works with Infuse Health).
So for every Infuse Health cast he's gaining maximum 35 health from Aura of Restoration, and if he's also using Ether Renewal he'll get another maximum 17 per enchantment (total 68 for 4 enchantments) and 4 energy (16 for 4 enchantments)...
However, Ether Renewal lasts 10 seconds and has a cooldown of 30 seconds, which is why he qualifies it with "200-300 heals instant cast (big hint there) every 10 out of 15(30) seconds."
Well nice to see we have one guy with brains :)

Diversion won't kill it. Get spellbreaker on your team & pack yourself full of enchantments so you have something to do if E.R. or infuse gets disabled. Nice call on vital blessings but you forgot life attunement & vigorous spirit. Infuse heals so frigging much per cast that you don't really need to spam it. I usually end up mostly casting E.R. for the energy. It also doesn't lower your health much (in fact it usually increases it) if you work it well. Also get an enchantments staff upgrade & QZ is a must, of course.


You could kill him with strip enchantments and backfire alone but you wouldn't even need to because he's not able to sustain his team with his lackluster healing ability.rofl i could cast right through backfire. Already said nature renewals is a problem anyway

[Monk Pvp]

Well nice to see we have one guy with brains :)

Diversion won't kill it. Get spellbreaker on your team & pack yourself full of enchantments so you have something to do if E.R. or infuse gets disabled. Nice call on vital blessings but you forgot life attunement & vigorous spirit. Infuse heals so frigging much per cast that you don't really need to spam it. I usually end up mostly casting E.R. for the energy. It also doesn't lower your health much (in fact it usually increases it) if you work it well. Also get an enchantments staff upgrade & QZ is a must, of course.

rofl i could cast right through backfire. Already said nature renewals is a problem anyway
It’s nice to see you back to insulting everyone who doesn't like your build. It really shows your intelligence when you resort to name calling in the first sentence of half your posts. I'm not going to post about this anymore but Boofhead and others have posted numbers and if you didn't realize they weren't saying anything good about your build. If you take what Boofhead suggested into Tombs as primary healer you’re going to have some serious problems which was what he was trying to get you to realize. Furthermore, you're not accomplishing all what you said in your original post with those skills. And any primary healer that thinks he can simply cast right through backfire is clearly asking to be dominated by good teams. Your build simply does nothing extremely well; something’s mediocre at best and heavily relies on your team packing certain skills just to get any use out of you. Not to mention that the counters to your build are extremely popular and can render you almost useless. The overwhelming response to your build is that it doesn't work very well; do you really think that everyone is just not thinking and pointlessly bashing you?

[Nereid]

It’s nice to see you back to insulting everyone who doesn't like your build. It really shows your intelligence when you resort to name calling in the first sentence of half your posts. I'm not going to post about this anymore but Boofhead and others have posted numbers and if you didn't realize they weren't saying anything good about your build.... K lets talk numbers.

Lets say we have Aura of rest, E.R, vigorous spirit + 2 random monk enchantments


Ignore the energy bar (+25 energy per cast & NOTHING can punch through that). Health? Lets say you start out at 450 hp. Lvl 15 storage gives E.Renewal at ~100 health/cast, AoR at ~400%, vig.spirit at 10 health/cast, & you're getting at the very least 150 health per cast & always pumping out at least 200-300 instant cast zero energy zero recharge heals each time (depending on how much into Healing & how much hp you currently got). Spam all u want while ER's up and u eventually get to 150*2=300 health and stay there. There's a 20:30 downtime(20 seconds every 30 seconds), but with the fatass ele pool, you can easily wait it out.

How much stronger can this get? Ally casts lvl 10 vital blessings + life attunement. You're now instantly healing yourself 200 per cast, settling at 400 hp & outputting 250-350 instant zero recharge heals. Don't believe me? Do the math & you'll find i'm under-approximating. I could push that to a 400 hp heal stacking the right enchantments on the last 3 empty skill slots. See why desecrate doesn't faze it & casting rend on 5 monk enchantments isn't such a good idea? Nothing short of a 200/cast backfire can begin to scratch the augmented build. Backfire lvl 16 = 150 dmg & I could just wait it out or have it removed like everyone else does.

Add quickening zephyr & basically the other team must shut you down or find a way to kill someone in the 3 seconds that E.R is offline. Maybe someone brought aegis or cast guardian. Fairly common & just unnecessarily augments the already sick healing. Which is why I can (& choose to) get rid of some of the self enchantments for some decent dmg output. Of course stuff like healing seed can stay.

Enchantment stripping doesn't work cuz there's too many cover enchantments & too easily brought back up. And, of course, spellbreaker is an option. (oh look -another enchantment!) Btw you still haven't explained how it's easy to remove. Diversion spam also doesn't work for reasons I already explained. I don't need to cast infuse often(very strong & there's 2 other monks). The only real counter is constant nature's renewal spam. I could go to the bathroom, come back & still have time to interrupt that 5 second cast.


So tell me - can a primary monk do that? I say you do like Cantos & copy it. You guys seem to be good at that.


On a sidenote, I wonder if protective Spirit if works with Infuse. My bet is no (i'd have noticed it), but i'm not 100% sure.

[Monk Pvp]

K lets talk numbers.

Lets say we have Aura of rest, E.R, vigorous spirit + 2 random monk enchantments


Ignore the energy bar (+25 energy per cast & NOTHING can punch through that). Health? Lets say you start out at 450 hp. Lvl 15 storage gives E.Renewal at ~100 health/cast, AoR at ~400%, vig.spirit at 10 health/cast, & you're getting at the very least 150 health per cast & always pumping out at least 200-300 instant cast zero energy zero recharge heals each time (depending on how much into Healing & how much hp you currently got). Spam all u want while ER's up and u eventually get to 150*2=300 health and stay there. There's a 20:30 downtime(20 seconds every 30 seconds), but with the fatass ele pool, you can easily wait it out.

How much stronger can this get? Ally casts lvl 10 vital blessings + life attunement. You're now instantly healing yourself 200 per cast, settling at 400 hp & outputting 250-350 instant zero recharge heals. Don't believe me? Do the math & you'll find i'm under-approximating. I could push that to a 400 hp heal stacking the right enchantments on the last 3 empty skill slots. See why desecrate doesn't faze it & casting rend on 5 monk enchantments isn't such a good idea? Nothing short of a 200/cast backfire can begin to scratch the augmented build. Backfire lvl 16 = 150 dmg & I could just wait it out or have it removed like everyone else does.

Add quickening zephyr & basically the other team must shut you down or find a way to kill someone in the 3 seconds that E.R is offline. Maybe someone brought aegis or cast guardian. Fairly common & just unnecessarily augments the already sick healing. Which is why I can (& choose to) get rid of some of the self enchantments for some decent dmg output. Of course stuff like healing seed can stay.

Enchantment stripping doesn't work cuz there's too many cover enchantments & too easily brought back up. And, of course, spellbreaker is an option. (oh look -another enchantment!) Btw you still haven't explained how it's easy to remove. Diversion spam also doesn't work for reasons I already explained. I don't need to cast infuse often(very strong & there's 2 other monks). The only real counter is constant nature's renewal spam. I could go to the bathroom, come back & still have time to interrupt that 5 second cast.


On a sidenote, I wonder if protective Spirit if works with Infuse. My bet is no (i'd have noticed it), but i'm not 100% sure.
This entire thread is about primary healers and your build is still having to maintain too many enchantments at the cost of too much energy too remain effective for long. All the spells you’re using cost significantly more energy then the monk spells you’d be using as a primary healer with a different build and you’d be a lot less reliant on maintaining so many enchants. Once you lose any of your enchantments this build really needs to recast them almost right away to remain efficient and several of them have recast timers that last quite a bit longer than the time the skills themselves last. I mean you've mentioned having 5 enchantments just for your build to work effectively. That is not my definition of being effective as a primary healer in most cases. No one is claiming that this build will never work, we're just saying in most situations we don't think it is the best build for a primary healer (which is what the thread is about) and it seems lots of people agree.


So tell me - can a primary monk do that? I say you do like Cantos & copy it. You guys seem to be good at that.

In terms of this comment, I just simply ask what is wrong with you? Why do you feel the need to flame someone that is just giving you their opinion on a build which you posted on public forums? Why do you think we just simply copy builds? You’ve never seen a build of mine unless you read our guild forums and you don't even know what guild we're in or know what builds we use. Furthermore, you’ve most likely never seen or spoken to either one of us in game. So I really fail too see how you know so much about us.

These are just opinions and if you can't deal with them without resorting to third grade ad hominem attacks you shouldn't be posting on a public forum. This post and all my previous ones are my opinion of your build not some personal attack so calm down and stop personally attacking everyone that see’s issues with your build.

[Nereid]

This entire thread is about primary healers and your build is still having to maintain too many enchantments at the cost of too much energy too remain effective for long. All the spells you’re using cost significantly more energy then the monk spells you’d be using as a primary healer with a different build and you’d be a lot less reliant on maintaining so many enchants. Once you lose any of your enchantments this build really needs to recast them almost right away to remain efficient and several of them have recast timers that last quite a bit longer than the time the skills themselves last. I mean you've mentioned having 5 enchantments just for your build to work effectively. That is not my definition of being effective as a primary healer in most cases. No one is claiming that this build will never work, we're just saying in most situations we don't think it is the best build for a primary healer (which is what the thread is about) and it seems lots of people agree.

In terms of this comment, I just simply ask what is wrong with you? Why do you feel the need to flame someone that is just giving you their opinion on a build which you posted on public forums? Why do you think we just simply copy builds? You’ve never seen a build of mine unless you read our guild forums and you don't even know what guild we're in or know what builds we use. Furthermore, you’ve most likely never seen or spoken to either one of us in game. So I really fail too see how you know so much about us.

These are just opinions and if you can't deal with them without resorting to third grade ad hominem attacks you shouldn't be posting on a public forum. This post and all my previous ones are my opinion of your build not some personal attack so calm down and stop personally attacking everyone that see’s issues with your build.It's just that your criticisms here & before just make me wonder whether you've actually played an E.R. build. Cost too much energy? I think we're done with this thread.

[Monk Pvp]

It's just that your criticisms here & before just make me wonder whether you've actually played an E.R. build. Cost too much energy? I think we're done with this thread.
I don't like having to maintain 5 enchantments on myself throughout PVP or have to rely that much on others to keep me being efficient and effective. Maybe this is just my preference but to each his own. If it works for you by all means enjoy it. :happy53:

[Nereid]

I don't like having to maintain 5 enchantments on myself throughout PVP or have to rely that much on others to keep me being efficient and effective. Maybe this is just my preference but to each his own. If it works for you by all means enjoy it. :happy53:
Aura of rest, E.R, vigorous spirit, zealots, retribution/mending/whatever, 20% enchantments staff wrapping. Already you're healing better than any monk. What's so hard about that?

Go try it.

[Monk Pvp]

Aura of rest, E.R, vigorous spirit, zealots, retribution/mending/whatever, 20% enchantments staff wrapping. Already you're healing better than any monk. What's so hard about that?

Go try it.
Nothing is hard about it. I just like playing primary healer and prefer a different build with monk as my primary. I have tried this build and so have several others and we just prefer a different build for healers and prefer to be a Mo/Me or a Mo/E; it's not really a big deal. My personal preference is a Mo/Me but if you like your build the most, like I said by all means enjoy it, it's just not going to be for everyone.