PDA

View Full Version : WTB W/Mo with a brain and knows how to use it



HalfwayDecent
02-07-2005, 03:22
Every other war/monk I see in random arena behaves very much like a lemming. Most seems to think that every other caster is squishy or that secondary monks won't be a full time healer among other things. Many will take full credit for kills and leave mid game the moment they eat dirt.

This is not to say that there aren't any good war/monks out there but the majority simply sucks.

Warrior is one of the easier (if not easiest) class to play. Just how bad can one get? Let's hear your experiences/story.

/rant

ps: I play both a r/me and a w/mo.

Sadow
02-07-2005, 07:20
A Warrior is easy to play, sure. Is it easy to be effective with? Not at all. A Warrior/Monk may be able to run around and spam bleeds a lot, but the instant they're faced with any kind of enchantment stripping, or someone who can eliminate those bleeds, they very often lose all cohesion.

Honestly, the strongest part of a Warrior/Monk is the fact that they can self-cure things such as Faintheartedness, as well as Conditions, which could otherwise hinder them greatly. It helps to take an extra bit of strain off of the Monks, and makes them more effective, overall. You don't need Mending to be a super PVPer with a Warrior - "Watch Yourself!" and the occasional heal from your friendly Monk is more than sufficient for this.

Entropius
02-07-2005, 09:12
I play an E/Mo smiter, among other things.

Balthazar's Aura
Ether Renewal
Reversal of Fortune
Armor of Earth
Aura of Restoration
Smite Hex / Vengeance
Shielding Hands
Zealot's Fire

In some matches I cast Fire, Armor of Earth, and Aura, then run up into the pack of W/Mo's. 90% of their reaction is "Ooh, squishy caster!" and charge at me.

I cast Balth's Aura, then Shielding Hands, then Ether Renewal ... and spam Reversal of Fortune on myself. With better armor than a warrior (thanks to Armor of Earth) and massive self-heals thanks to Aura and Renewal, they haven't a prayer to kill me.

Sometimes they get this through their thick skulls and back off, looking for a softer target. Sometimes they just die.

Kharesh
02-07-2005, 10:35
This is not intended as a flame... I know it may sound like it, but this reply isnt really to the ones in this thread.. more so the people(aka noobs) I debate with in-game over the usefulness of Warriors.

ei:

Warrior: "Get 2 more warriors"

Warrior: "We should get more warriors"

Warrior: "Im a noob and dont know what im talking about"

Honestly Im going to try to keep this short and sweet but there is no build alive aside the Hammer/Aftershock build that warriors are effective with, and a W/Mo is ENTIRELY useless. If you are using the general 2 Heal Monk 1 Prot monk rule, then why in gods green earth do you need a monk secondary? Simple.. You DONT. There is NO SUCH THING as a tank in PvP.

I repeat... NO SUCH THING as a TANK in PvP. Who will get targetted first when fighting against your typical spike build?

Monks>Mesmers>Eles>Ranger>WARRIOR

So my point is if you see anyone trying to make a claim that warriors are somehow useful in some way aside being used on relic matches, of which there should, IMO, only be 1 warrior in the group for that specific purpose, then PLEASE correct them. There are a LOT of noobs going to tombs in the american servers lately and if we want to find good groups were going to have to enlighten them. In conclusion, if youre a warrior and want to be taken seriously by serious PvP groups in Tombs, Change your secondary to Ele ASAP and use him for an hammer/aftershock build which I will point out is a rather effective build.

TY for making this thread I feel what i just stated really needed to be addressed.



Edit: And to reply to the second post in this thread, I play a monk... and even if theres only 1 heal monk and 1 prot monk, as thats sometimes the case when im in a random group.. if im doing my job correctly its not really that big of a deal. If theres 2 heal monks and 1 prot monk, then Its REALLY not that big of a deal. A W/Mo is useless in PvP. Of course I speak purely for Tombs PvP... A W/Mo in the random arena IS NOT useless... but random arena itself is kinda pointless since you dont really get anything out of it.

TW III
02-07-2005, 10:49
Honestly Im going to try to keep this short and sweet but there is no build alive aside the Hammer/Aftershock build that warriors are effective with, and a W/Mo is ENTIRELY useless. If you are using the general 2 Heal Monk 1 Prot monk rule, then why in gods green earth do you need a monk secondary? Simple.. You DONT. There is NO SUCH THING as a tank in PvP.




Ever heard of smiting?

SinFiery
02-07-2005, 10:58
Ever heard of warriors ****ty energy, and energy regen?

TW III
02-07-2005, 11:56
Ever heard of warriors ****ty energy, and energy regen?


Who cares? It's not like you'll run around casting balthazars aura.

Rizzy
02-07-2005, 15:00
One War/mo agreed to 1vs1 with me, and starts whining how he cant hit me and how I hit really fast with 40 damage all the time, and complained about my backfire, coz he couldnt heal himself with that thing on and furthurmore threaten to write to GW makers about how IW needs a nerfing....

:surprise:

Rizzy
02-07-2005, 15:06
Who cares? It's not like you'll run around casting balthazars aura.
Signet of judgement and knockdown + some dudes life degen, really wears off a monk.

Eitherway, a knockdown warrior is more effecient in my opinion.

HalfwayDecent
02-07-2005, 16:02
I repeat... NO SUCH THING as a TANK in PvP. Who will get targetted first when fighting against your typical spike build?



Nobody mentioned anything anywhere about warriors being tanks in pvp. Rather, many of us feels that warriors should make themselves more useful and effective. Not running alone into a group of spikers and getting killed in under 1 second is a good example. Hamstring enemy warriors chasing your squishy casters is another.

Random arena gives us access to action fast. This is something many other players (myself included) have pointed out (in many other threads) in regards to the long waiting time for getting a group at tombs.

dorafish
02-07-2005, 19:42
Warriors are damn powerful if played correctly..
too bad most warriors think that they have to rush in and just HAVE TO kill the enemy monk, despite the fact the monk's life isn't even moving.
A hammer warrior that knows how to time his KDs and who to hit is very nasty

Crimson Villain
03-07-2005, 00:25
I was in random arena last night the ascalon one I was lvl 9 I think max lvl for this is 10?

anyway I got in a random group of all W/MO (including me) and one Mo/W.

We owned it up I couldnt believe it. We even defeated a heave Ele and necro grp.

Warriors are not worthless I just think ppl havent realized what a warrior is capable of.

HalfwayDecent
03-07-2005, 00:51
Ascalon arena? lmao.

Aviyur
03-07-2005, 01:00
W/Mo's with a spell (i forget which one, but for x amount of seconds damage is negated and he gets health instead) is a pain to kill especially in 1v1...i was once in a fight with one...i had used my res signet....and i wouldn't let him restore life (bless distracing shot) using my usual random PvP arena tactics against W's i used pin down....pepperd with arrows, as he got close, done it again....obviously this wasnt working with his heal thing....then it dawned on me his spell cant work if im not attacking him...so i just poisoned him and carried on running when he cast that spell......At some point he used healing breeze which somehow i disrupted via random Distracting shot ^^. His health degend and he died....after which he called me a cheater and said i would never have beaten him in a fair fight.....he continued whispering me for about 5 mins after the battle telling me how useless rangers were, and how i would have been kicked from his guild for doing that..i eventually just said "if your so good why did you loose?" he called me a noob and stopped whispering me :howdy: ...never saw him in random arena's again...poor soul..


Just my W/Mo story :D

HalfwayDecent
03-07-2005, 01:11
W/Mo's with a spell (i forget which one, but for x amount of seconds damage is negated and he gets health instead) is a pain to kill especially in 1v1...i was once in a fight with one...i had used my res signet....and i wouldn't let him restore life (bless distracing shot) using my usual random PvP arena tactics against W's i used pin down....pepperd with arrows, as he got close, done it again....obviously this wasnt working with his heal thing....then it dawned on me his spell cant work if im not attacking him...so i just poisoned him and carried on running when he cast that spell......At some point he used healing breeze which somehow i disrupted via random Distracting shot ^^. His health degend and he died....after which he called me a cheater and said i would never have beaten him in a fair fight.....he continued whispering me for about 5 mins after the battle telling me how useless rangers were, and how i would have been kicked from his guild for doing that..i eventually just said "if your so good why did you loose?" he called me a noob and stopped whispering me :howdy: ...never saw him in random arena's again...poor soul..


Just my W/Mo story :D

Mark of protection. And on the whispering part, I have had such experiences as well and so far I only get such nonsense from the warrior players, none of the other classes whine nearly as much. lol

dorafish
03-07-2005, 06:59
Thatz cuz alot of the W/Mo's are kids....are they all have an ego problem.
They fail to realize that a good player can easily beat the typical W/Mo sword/healing build.

Meja
03-07-2005, 09:56
A hammer warrior that knows how to time his KDs and who to hit is very nastyI agree with you. A good timing with his hammer KDs and a warrior can really hurt...
In my opinion, hammers are better than sword (I used to play a sword W/Mo, and I'm currently playing a Hammer W/Me) but most of the warriors are using a sword. :/

bbbb
03-07-2005, 12:27
The reason why most (when I say most, that's alot) warrior players are playing like noobs in PVP because warrior in its class is too easy to use in PVE.

All you need to do is run to enemies and *click* *click* *click*. If you are a W/Mo, then it gets better. You can almost run to any places on map and finish almost all the missions+quests with henchman. :surprise:

So when a W/Mo or warrior goes to PVP, they do exactly the same thing but not knowing that he is costing monks' energy and putting the whole team in danger.

I can't stop laughing when warrior at tomb claiming himself a good tank. I usually invite warrior only when he uses hammer.

poiuyt
03-07-2005, 14:38
I am a war/ele myself and I have to say that, yes, 9 war/monk out of 10 are just useless builds... but I guess that a war/monk with life bond or life barrier its not useless...

Svenn
03-07-2005, 20:10
I guess that a war/monk with life bond or life barrier its not useless...Yes, monkies die less...speaking as a monky. :love19:

Aviyur
03-07-2005, 20:50
Doesnt that just mean that the warriors sold purpose is to suck up damage directed at other members of the team? :p ...which sounds about right anyway given their AL

Svenn
03-07-2005, 21:04
Doesnt that just mean that the warriors sold purpose is to suck up damage directed at other members of the team?In our usual GvG team, primarily, yes. Though we have the warrior bring knockdown, as well, which makes him an annoying distraction from our real damage dealers. They can be good flag runners, too.

Hydralisk_X
04-07-2005, 08:43
I was in random arena last night the ascalon one I was lvl 9 I think max lvl for this is 10?

anyway I got in a random group of all W/MO (including me) and one Mo/W.

We owned it up I couldnt believe it. We even defeated a heave Ele and necro grp.

Warriors are not worthless I just think ppl havent realized what a warrior is capable of.
Wow... level 1-10 fighting in random ascalon arena is DEFINITELY not like tombs or gvg or even the higher level arenas.

W/E seems to be the biggest damage output and biggest pain in the *** with knockdown. I was observing my brother (monk) doing pvp. He got his *** handed to him by a pesky W/E earth warrior chasing him and knocking him down. One single warrior on a monk to take it down is pretty useful don't you say? Or at least disrupt spells with knockdown or temporarily disable... VERY annoying.

W/Mo is good in random arenas where you aren't guaranteed a monk everytime... and where some people actually target the warrior. But then again random arenas don't matter as much... more of a testing out your crazy build ideas ground.

RaithTheDark
04-07-2005, 08:56
The random arenas are indeed...RANDOM. We had a team earlier of mesmer/monk/ele/ranger(me) and I had 2 warriors chasing me in circles the entire time lol. Needless to say their team died pretty fast and they whined "omg lame running ranger!" I should have been the last target on their mind lol, but it seems to be a popular trend in random arenas, chasing rangers with warriors.

Lefaras
04-07-2005, 10:36
The random arenas are indeed...RANDOM. We had a team earlier of mesmer/monk/ele/ranger(me) and I had 2 warriors chasing me in circles the entire time lol. Needless to say their team died pretty fast and they whined "omg lame running ranger!" I should have been the last target on their mind lol, but it seems to be a popular trend in random arenas, chasing rangers with warriors.

I meet worse. In those random arena, I was attack by two warriors and i cast throw dirt on them. But they simply refused to stop their attacks and still hacking blindly on me while i pick off their caster with my arrows and alternate dust trap and throw dirt to blind the two warriors. That was like half the team power was down and my team have a easy win. :clap:

poiuyt
04-07-2005, 15:51
Doesnt that just mean that the warriors sold purpose is to suck up damage directed at other members of the team? :p ...which sounds about right anyway given their AL

Yes you are correct, but the problem is that 9 war/monks out of 10 seems not to understand that... they continue to bring in action spells like healing hands or healing breeze to heal themself and dont understand that in the REAL pvp warriors are the last target and, anyway, your monks mates will heal you if necessary.

This tread of noob self-healing war/monk is making ppl think that ALL the war/monks are stupid and useless.

Anyway, I guess that a damage warrior is the best way to play the class, so I prefere a conjure war/ele... yes, hammer+aftershock its good too, but in my guild the mesms will provide interrupt so I prefere the more damage of a sword-conjure war/ele.

RaithTheDark
04-07-2005, 16:56
Yes you are correct, but the problem is that 9 war/monks out of 10 seems not to understand that... they continue to bring in action spells like healing hands or healing breeze to heal themself and dont understand that in the REAL pvp warriors are the last target and, anyway, your monks mates will heal you if necessary.

This tread of noob self-healing war/monk is making ppl think that ALL the war/monks are stupid and useless.

Anyway, I guess that a damage warrior is the best way to play the class, so I prefere a conjure war/ele... yes, hammer+aftershock its good too, but in my guild the mesms will provide interrupt so I prefere the more damage of a sword-conjure war/ele.

Thers nothing wrong with wanting a little healing, taking some of the strain off monks is good, going overboard is bad you still want to maintain good dps.

poiuyt
04-07-2005, 18:43
Thers nothing wrong with wanting a little healing, taking some of the strain off monks is good, going overboard is bad you still want to maintain good dps.

I guess there is no point in having any self-heal spell for a war... remember that a war its the LAST target in a real pvp... so you'll use that spells (being targetted) when all your team is dead... and that spells will not make you able to kill the 8 enemies alone...
Before every one in your party is dead nobody will hit you, so there will be no stress for your monks no matter what secondary class you are...

If someone is hitting you before your monk mates then you are in the random arena...

RaithTheDark
04-07-2005, 19:23
I guess there is no point in having any self-heal spell for a war... remember that a war its the LAST target in a real pvp... so you'll use that spells (being targetted) when all your team is dead... and that spells will not make you able to kill the 8 enemies alone...
Before every one in your party is dead nobody will hit you, so there will be no stress for your monks no matter what secondary class you are...

If someone is hitting you before your monk mates then you are in the random arena...


Going by that logic you should never have a warrior period, or any form of res or heal party or heal other on your monks because you will be the only target.


They don't need stances either, rangers don't need troll urg or stances and blood magic is gimp, while we're at it lets make all warriors convert to E/W hammer uses since they won't ever take damage anyway.

/sarcasm off

TW III
04-07-2005, 21:01
Going by that logic you should never have a warrior period, or any form of res or heal party or heal other on your monks because you will be the only target.


It's called target changing, people do it all the time. Warriors shouldn't carry selfheals or stances. period. Also, as a monk you're never the only monk in your team and "other ally" monk spells are way more powerful than "ally" spells like orison for example.






They don't need stances either


true.


rangers don't need troll urg or stances

true.


blood magic is gimp


false. BiP is awesome. Health steal spells? Yeah those are horrible.




while we're at it lets make all warriors convert to E/W hammer uses since they won't ever take damage anyway.




Then they wouldn't be warriors anymore and could be killed easily. Also you'd be worse in melee than a warrior and worse than a real caster as a nuker.



/sarcasm off



Oh crap so all the right stuff in your post was sarcasm?

MasterNightfall
04-07-2005, 21:56
Smiting W/Mos are a very good contribution to a team, if the build is designed to accomodate them.

Otherwise, I wouldn't dream of taking a W/Mo on a team, if he didn't have Martyr or Purge Signet.

RaithTheDark
05-07-2005, 07:17
I'll still carry healing sig around on my warriors and whirling on my rangers :\ I do find myself taking damage b4 the monks fall even in tombs. People use AE's, some teams are just bad etc. I had to use troll urg on my ranger the other night as final fight vs one of those korean guilds beause they WERE dealing damage to me. They were also using the exact build we were that had AE splashdamage.

Aviyur
05-07-2005, 12:58
Also self healing and self defense cut down on the healing of the monks :happy34: Saving them energy and time to heal others

TW III
05-07-2005, 13:03
Also self healing and self defense cut down on the healing of the monks :happy34: Saving them energy and time to heal others


No they don't. Example: Healing Breeze. If you use it on yourself when you're in trouble (let's just pretend people would attack warriors before the monks are down) and a monk casts healing breeze on you too. One of you just wasted 1 skill slot. Self heals don't belong in real pvp with the exception of very specific team builds.

Saikyo
05-07-2005, 13:28
No they don't. Example: Healing Breeze. If you use it on yourself when you're in trouble (let's just pretend people would attack warriors before the monks are down) and a monk casts healing breeze on you too. One of you just wasted 1 skill slot. Self heals don't belong in real pvp with the exception of very specific team builds.

Maybe not in this example it's not useful, but for other classes it is.

Life siphon + Healing Breeze

Troll Unguent + Healing Breeze

I Will Survive + Healing Breeze

Besides, how many ele's do you see running around without aura of restoration or necros without some kind of life stealing. It's not worthless to bring self-heals into pvp as long as you coordinate them. But I guess if we are talking about the Wa/Mo then yeah I suppose it might be somewhat of a waste, especially when the monk doesn't notice that the warrior's life is going up from some sort of enchantment.

Though I suppose this depends on what you mean by "real pvp" and I'm not sure what you mean by that. Is there a "fake pvp"?

TW III
05-07-2005, 13:55
Maybe not in this example it's not useful, but for other classes it is.

Life siphon + Healing Breeze



Life siphon is crap.


Troll Unguent + Healing Breeze

The only party you should bring Troll Urgent in is a very specific one, for example spirit build where you bring as many rangers as possible and have few monks.




I Will Survive + Healing Breeze


another crap skill






Besides, how many ele's do you see running around without aura of restoration or necros without some kind of life stealing.

Outside of arena? None. Life stealing sucks. Life Transfer sucks. Vampiric gaze sucks. The only reason to use blood magic is BiP or OOB. The only reason to use Aura of Restoration is an ether renewal build. It sucks.





Though I suppose this depends on what you mean by "real pvp" and I'm not sure what you mean by that. Is there a "fake pvp"?

The randomness makes arena in my opinion not real pvp. I don't even like tombs since it's more or less about who's got the lamest team build (healing balls for example).

Aviyur
05-07-2005, 14:34
hmm maybe i was clear....im a ranger not warrior....so i use troll ungent....my wilderness is lvl 12 Example1 : This ranger is using incendiary arrows on our monk....he's being disrupted and is burning...warriors....get him.... Warriors run to hit ranger....Throw Dirt + Troll ungent, warriors cant knockdown, sever artery and warriors cant out damage my +9 health regen, saving the monk energy and time, and heals the ele that needed healing.Ranger and ele live. Example2 : This ranger is using incendiary arrows on our monk....he's being disrupted and is burning ... warriors ....get him..Warriors run and hit ranger....knockdowns, sever arteries and all...Ranger cant defend himself and heal.....2 outcomes: Monk heals ranger, ele dies....loosing out on big AoE damage (depending on what the ele specializes in) or Monk heals ele....ranger dies....enemy monk is no longer distracted...and can heal again.

Just my point of view.

TW III
05-07-2005, 15:01
ok I guess selfheals are ok if you only play against people who are too noob to know about condition removal.

caldfyr
05-07-2005, 15:52
ok I guess selfheals are ok if you only play against people who are too noob to know about condition removal.

9 regen for 5 mana is nice. Condition removal is great if you're at the top of the "people i need to remove conditions from next" list; if you're not, sucks to be you. Mend ailment is single target. Not many people bring martyr. Getting a decent protection monk is a 1 in 10 shot.

I'm a healer. If a ranger wants to bring troll, I say go for it. It makes the ranger one less priority heal target when everyone's passing disease back and forth.

Saikyo
06-07-2005, 00:54
Life siphon is crap.



The only party you should bring Troll Urgent in is a very specific one, for example spirit build where you bring as many rangers as possible and have few monks.






another crap skill





Outside of arena? None. Life stealing sucks. Life Transfer sucks. Vampiric gaze sucks. The only reason to use blood magic is BiP or OOB. The only reason to use Aura of Restoration is an ether renewal build. It sucks.






The randomness makes arena in my opinion not real pvp. I don't even like tombs since it's more or less about who's got the lamest team build (healing balls for example).

A few questions, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or witty, I'm just curious.

Why do say all those skills are crap? The seem pretty useful to me and I'm pretty sure A.net designed the game such that all skills would be useful.

Do you only play team arenas and GvG? I'm guessing this is the case if you don't like random arenas and tombs.

dorafish
06-07-2005, 04:20
I disagree with TW III.
Life siphon is awesome. Just cast it on 2 or 3 targets, and you're running enough regen to tank...whatever.
Troll's ungent i personally find is a great skill, besides for the 3 second cast time. But once its up, it can't be removed, since its not an enchantment.

TW III
06-07-2005, 14:47
I disagree with TW III.
Life siphon is awesome. Just cast it on 2 or 3 targets, and you're running enough regen to tank...whatever.
Troll's ungent i personally find is a great skill, besides for the 3 second cast time. But once its up, it can't be removed, since its not an enchantment.


lol@ tanking in pvp.



Why do say all those skills are crap? The seem pretty useful to me and I'm pretty sure A.net designed the game such that all skills would be useful.


You can't honestly think that this game is 100% balanced. Some of the skills in this game are only useful in pve, some only in pvp and some simply suck ( suffering, concussion shot, ether lord and so on). Those skills aren't really ever worth bringing with the exception of some GvG team strategy but I honestly can't think about any team that'd be better by having team mates with ether lord, concussion shot or suffering.

Life siphon sucks because it's good at nothing. It's not powerful enough to deal damage, the selfheals is essentially worthless in pvp where you got monks to do the healing. Troll Urgent has a huge casting time and the only time I'd ever use it is in a 7 R 1 Mo team or whatever since your enemy will only deal tiny dps and will be interrupted a lot.
I will survive is simply horrible. As a Warrior you won't be attacked by other warriors, so bleeding and deepwound are out. You better get blind removed fast otherwise you're useless so it's out too. Weakness isn't really that common either. Dazed blows. Disease is probably the only condition you'll actually suffer a lot as warrior and that's just because of disease necros. Also there really is no point in healing yourself as a warrior most of the time. Even the worst arena noobs must have realised by now that attacking the target with the highest armor and leaving the one healing him alone is stupid.
AoR sucks because it doesn't heal enough to outheal focus fire from anyone, the healing it actually does is tiny and because it needs a skill slot. Life stealing sucks because it's not good at healing damage and it's not good at healing. Life Transfer blows. 14 dps oh no better run. That's some huge spike damage right there. Vampiric gaze and similar skills deal the damage of a flare combined with an orison from a monk with no divine favor and have a long recharge and high energy cost. If you want to deal damage deal damage and be an ele or warrior. If you want to heal use a monk.




Do you only play team arenas and GvG? I'm guessing this is the case if you don't like random arenas and tombs.

I only play Team Arena, Tombs and GvG. I only play tombs and GvG for faction since my guild is nearly dead, otherwise the only pvp I'd play is UW and the only pve for skill points.

Svenn
06-07-2005, 20:09
TW III, your posts have greatly improved since joining this forum. However, you are too focused on individual skills and individual character builds. Your view needs to expand to team level builds. This game has incredible team-level balance. Every character type has a place in a build somewhere.

I'm not going to take the time to rebutt every point that you made, but most skills can be useful in either a PvP or a PvE build, some in both. For example, you mentioned Concussion Shot, which in the hands of a skilled player can be devastating to casters. Use Concussion Shot with Markman's Wager, either Serpent's Quickness or Quickening Zephyr, as well as Savage Shot, Debilitating Shot and Distracting Shot. In the context of a team build with enough primary damage, you can shut down and possibly kill a secondary target while the rest of the team is focus-firing the primary target. By the time the first target is down, they switch to your target (if still alive), which drops like a rock.

dorafish
07-07-2005, 03:46
The purpose of life siphon is not to help people who sub in necro to tank, but to allow a necro primary to stay alive easier while being able to continue to pile up hexes and curses on the enemy team.
Besides, tanking = taking hits from the enemy. So are you tryin to say that people don't take hits? That's simply retarded.
Sure, you can rely on your monk, but theres nothing wrong with taking some stress of your monk by being atleast remotely self-reliant.

Saikyo
07-07-2005, 09:59
You can't honestly think that this game is 100% balanced. Some of the skills in this game are only useful in pve, some only in pvp and some simply suck ( suffering, concussion shot, ether lord and so on). Those skills aren't really ever worth bringing with the exception of some GvG team strategy but I honestly can't think about any team that'd be better by having team mates with ether lord, concussion shot or suffering.

No, I don't think the game is 100% balanced, but I think that it's a heck of a lot more balanced that other games like it. I also think that A.net is doing a darn good job trying to keep it fair.

I do disagree with your opinion on skills that "suck", but it's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Though I mostly play random pvp anyways, so I guess it's a different perspective too.

hoyp
07-07-2005, 10:25
Nah, you're all just too dumb to see how l33t TW is

TW III
07-07-2005, 15:46
you mentioned Concussion Shot, which in the hands of a skilled player can be devastating to casters. Use Concussion Shot with Markman's Wager, either Serpent's Quickness or Quickening Zephyr, as well as Savage Shot, Debilitating Shot and Distracting Shot. In the context of a team build with enough primary damage, you can shut down and possibly kill a secondary target while the rest of the team is focus-firing the primary target. By the time the first target is down, they switch to your target (if still alive), which drops like a rock.


Or you could use Oath Shot/ choking gas, Choking gas / incendiary arrows or practised stance/ choking gas and be far better at interrupting.



The purpose of life siphon is not to help people who sub in necro to tank, but to allow a necro primary to stay alive easier while being able to continue to pile up hexes and curses on the enemy team.
Besides, tanking = taking hits from the enemy. So are you tryin to say that people don't take hits? That's simply retarded.
Sure, you can rely on your monk, but theres nothing wrong with taking some stress of your monk by being atleast remotely self-reliant.


Even if you waste 30 energy to siphon 3 different enemies the only thing it'll heal you enough for is against a caster using a wand on you. The healing is useless, the damage is awful. And no, "people" don't take hits. (And getting hit isn't tanking either). Monks take damage, then mesmers do. And if you're getting targeted by the enemy team do you really think your awesome 3 pips of health regen will help you?

ElfMan
07-07-2005, 21:49
Life Siphon is a good first hex because of it's length. It essentially protects the next, more damaging hex from the hex breaker that will be coming....

At least that's how I use it.

Flaming Newby
07-07-2005, 23:33
I just can't believe how someone could ignore Judges Insight on a War.

Holy Damge + 20% Armor Penetration.... mmmmmm

mortic
08-07-2005, 03:09
Ever heard of smiting?

Apparently, Kharesh hasn't. Judge's Insight and Strength of Honor are very nice skill for Wa/Mo, especially dealing with the spirit teams using greater conflagration/winter/mantra of frost.

STINGER
08-07-2005, 20:23
Dazed if not removed is nasty.

Hex capping is key and many so called "crap skills" are very good at doing that while adding to the attack.

Spreading hexs/conditions even when they are minor can be a very effective way to screw teams up especially the average team. Siphon isnt the greatest skill but it isnt crap.

Svenn
08-07-2005, 21:45
Or you could use Oath Shot/ choking gas, Choking gas / incendiary arrows or practised stance/ choking gas and be far better at interrupting.No, not on a single target IMO. Choking Gas is very good to spread temporary mayham among a tightly-grouped team and get them to spread out of healing balls or wards, but it doesn't last long enough, even with Practiced Stance. If your team is targeting one monk, you have to be able to single-handedly shut down the other monk or mesmer until they can switch to your target, and that means keeping your energy up for spamming interrupts and energy denial skills continuously. Otherwise, a good inspiration Mesmer will render you impotent and still be able to significantly harrass your monk.

Broaden your horizons. There is always "more than one way to skin a cat".

neoflame
09-07-2005, 23:51
Signet of judgement and knockdown + some dudes life degen, really wears off a monk.

Eitherway, a knockdown warrior is more effecient in my opinion.
You don't have to use Aftershock with a knockdown warrior. The two most effective characters in Arenas I've ever used are a E/Mo smiter and a W/Me hammer warrior.


Going by that logic you should never have a warrior period
I've seen plenty of tombs and GvG teams with 1 or no warriors.

or any form of res or heal party or heal other on your monks because you will be the only target.
You're the only monk?

They don't need stances either, rangers don't need troll urg or stances and blood magic is gimp
Ironically, in 8-player PvP (i.e. real PvP), this is generally true. (Assuming by blood magic you mean stuff like Vampiric Gaze.)

while we're at it lets make all warriors convert to E/W hammer uses since they won't ever take damage anyway.
Runes, and there's not really any way to use Energy Storage effectively on that kind of build.

Concussion Shot is (again in real PvP) weak because of its 25-energy cost, arrow flight time, and because Dazed is a condition and thus massively easily removed.

Additionally, TW is correct about skill balance: some skills are only good in PvE, some only in PvP, and some... not particularly anywhere.

Svenn
10-07-2005, 19:39
Concussion Shot is (again in real PvP) weak because of its 25-energy cost, arrow flight time, and because Dazed is a condition and thus massively easily removed.Check our guild rank, smarty pants. We do "real PvP". :thanks:

RaithTheDark
10-07-2005, 20:02
Meh, I never said I liked the selfhealing warrior/monks, but everything is decent somewhere or in some group. I pretty much play nothing but rangers, have 1 warrior/ele and sometimes a necro.

poiuyt
11-07-2005, 01:42
everything is decent somewhere or in some group.

Sure I agree... and self-heal war/monk are decent for random arena, not for real pvp, thats the point.

It all depends on what you want to do... if you want to stack with random arena, then enjoy your war/monk, but if you want to do some real pvp with your guild or your friends or whoever you want, then go for a war/ele or a war/nec.

Basically, most of the war/monks are noobs just becouse when these persons get some game experience and start to do real pvp, they simply switch to war/ele or war/nec...