Army of fiends without dead body? [Archive]

LeakyTank

07-07-2005, 08:47

Abbaddon

07-07-2005, 09:56

I was doing PvP, the beach map where there is a hill in the center. I'm pretty sure there's no died body around, and when we rush to their spawn point, this necro has created 10 bone fiends. How could he do that? Even if there is some dead bodies, he wouldn't have the energy to create 10 of them in such a short time. How did he do that?

I have a movie of it, and have seen it done before, although I haven't totally mastered the technique. I'm guessing another necro is sacrificing health on him, enough to where he does in fact kill himself, then a monk uses Veangeance on him, the one that rez's you for 30 seconds and you die with no DP. And repeat. Something like that, at least I'm guessing. It pisses me off because I'm a necro and I so badly want to do it :(

LeakyTank

07-07-2005, 20:44

The time til we rush over is at most 30 sec, and there 30 sec before gate opens, so how could he make 10 of those things? This is such as BS, all the player on their teams sucked, we easily kill of one, but there's just so many fiends blocking the we get totally surrounded.

Ritualistic Suicide

07-07-2005, 20:57

Lulu's build had 2 people rezing 2 people summoning and 2 people killing themselves off. I belive you can get 60 minons in 60 seconds with that.

Here is the build

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=349616

Suicide

LuLuTheMonk

08-07-2005, 00:01

Here is the video.
http://files.filefront.com/Raising_the_Dead/;3870317;;/fileinfo.html

Aviyur

08-07-2005, 00:34

That is absoloutely insane.........im surprised you dont see that kind of thing more often in the tombs

Fafner

08-07-2005, 00:44

Interesting that you guys would admire an obvious exploit. I've seen this on another net...somewhere.

Anyway, this has probably been reported and will be fixed, if not toss my report on the pile.

Hart

08-07-2005, 00:56

For the record, this build is not an exploit.

I don't see why people see something that's a little off kilter and start shouting exploit every time this build comes up.. or why the build keeps being mentioned. It was funny as heck when LuLu held the HoH with it, but it's a one trick build and if you know it's coming you can counter it simply by getting from point A to point B quickly and whacking some necromancers until their minions go neutral.

LuLuTheMonk

08-07-2005, 01:41

Interesting that you guys would admire an obvious exploit. I've seen this on another net...somewhere.

What exactly is this build "exploiting"? Perhaps using creating a corpse on your own team on purpose is an 'exploit'? And yet you can find a video of an a.net developer stating this exact build here:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guildwars/preview_6111591.html
(click on Developer interview 7 at the bottom)

What I always find extremely dissapointing, is when people copy cat the build, but only produce 5-10 minions, when the entire 'funny' part of the build is going for the 50+ mark.

Aviyur

08-07-2005, 02:22

IMO its a damn fine way to win a match....and it works amazingly well! so...it must be an exploit....just like spirits and air elementalists and paladins....i hope this gets sorted...so many exploits...tut tut tut.... :conf: (sarcasm btw :p )

wonder how running in the middle of them with whirling defenses would be :D or barrage + judges insight+ EoE ...mass murder :love57:

But still...great idea, great build and looks like great fun

stgsmitty

08-07-2005, 05:10

To build upon Whirling Defenses (Since I do playa Ranger/Monk, more specifically a ranger of SMITE) I knwo that I alone could do a lot of damage to them... If not dieing in the process. Whirling Defenses to buffer the time needed to cast Symbol of Wrath which does double damage to undead at a normal 22 dps for 5 seconds X2 for 44 dps for 5 seconds coming close to killing a large number of the minions...

ColdwaveKid

08-07-2005, 09:00

What exactly is this build "exploiting"? Perhaps using creating a corpse on your own team on purpose is an 'exploit'? And yet you can find a video of an a.net developer stating this exact build here:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guildwars/preview_6111591.html
(click on Developer interview 7 at the bottom)

What I always find extremely dissapointing, is when people copy cat the build, but only produce 5-10 minions, when the entire 'funny' part of the build is going for the 50+ mark.

Silly you. This build cannot be countered by pick me up groups, so obviously it is an exploit, which means here something I do not like.

Besides I think the 8 monk teams that run now can easily own this group, as minions fall fast to smites, and once the minions are gone then the team is easy picking. Damn Lulu posted this builds weakness too, and I am sure ANET knew about it the day after they ran this, as everyone said he was cheating. If this is not fixed now then it will not be, as it is not an exploit.

Pork Soldier

09-07-2005, 09:17

Silly you. This build cannot be countered by pick me up groups, so obviously it is an exploit, which means here something I do not like.

Not liking it doesn't make it an exploit. R/Mo with barrage + judges insight == pain, W/Mo with balthazar's aura == pain, E/* with meteor shower == pain, etc, etc.. a PUG could counter this easily if they were aoe or smiting heavy, an all monk group could counter this easily with zealot's fire (and likely kill a couple of necros in tormenter's sets as well). I'm glad you don't like it, but don't try to pass this off as an exploit for that reason alone. My Me/E with echo/arcane echo/meteor shower would have a field day with these guys.

Kriegar

09-07-2005, 10:58

It's a terrible build, and any decent team will not lose to it.
It is, however, a ton of fun the first few times you do it... especially seeing the other team's reactions. :lol:

Shingtime

11-07-2005, 23:08

the build was in the pre-release guide book. its CLEARLY NOT an exploit and CLEARLY legal. ANET friggin INVENTED it.

Acel

15-07-2005, 16:24

Wow so I guess Arena Net must be crazy to patch the game so that Necros cant sacrifice to death now huh? Wooh... to kill their own "invention"...

Svenn

15-07-2005, 23:13

Wow so I guess Arena Net must be crazy to patch the game so that Necros cant sacrifice to death now huh? Wooh... to kill their own "invention"...If you are talking about the fix to Grenth's Balance, that has nothing to do with the "billions of minions" build. The Necros kill themselves with Blood is Power.

OderWat

16-07-2005, 00:17

Just some thoughts:

If anyone every really finds an exploit... hopefully there are people left to tell it to us :)

It is very obvious here that arena.net knew what they did. They even put it in the book.

But to say: "You can do it in this game so it is not an exploit" is not any answer I would accept. For sure a possible exploit will be part of the game (at that time) :surprise:

I think there should be a (sticky) forum thread people could be guided to which encounter and warn about "known not as exploits classified builds or methods"

The original thread should be closed/locked by a moderator. So new people which are just try to be helpfull get into the right place and people who are "wining" get there where the find more to "wine" about :)

- OderWat

Bravo

17-07-2005, 14:40

Verata's aura and flee, perhaps followed shortly after with a nature's renewal in case they had a necro with verata's aura too...

Revean Black

20-07-2005, 18:52

if u can do it... and anet wont stop you... its not a exploit

Reguba

20-07-2005, 19:07

called a corpse factory...
ive made a build of it before
rangernecro or vice versa

bring a pet send it to its doom bone minion then comforrt animal
do as needed

ive had like 50 bone fiends before lol

Saerden

21-07-2005, 18:36

There is no such thing exploit in an competitive game (everything that has a ladder is a competitive game). There are poor games, poor rules, and poor player communities, but no exploits. You shall not exploit is a poor rule. You play to win. Exploiting the usefullness of "Lightning orb" is what a Air Ele MUST do. There are no cheap tactics, only cheap player reactions. There are dumb tactics, too , of course.

If a game has 1 broken combo - its broken.

If a game has no combo that a newb would call broken / imbalanced / to-be-nerfed, its broken.

If a game has at least 10 totally broken combos, its balanced.

this_barb

21-07-2005, 18:41

Stupidity runs amok. This is no exploit. This is a legitimate strategy, one that would have absolutely no chance of beating a good team. My guild has tried it. We've had over 80 minions at one time, but theyre all easily beaten by a good team. The best strategy to beat this is to rush in early and put down Frozen Soil.

LuLuTheMonk

22-07-2005, 01:29

Wow so I guess Arena Net must be crazy to patch the game so that Necros cant sacrifice to death now huh? Wooh... to kill their own "invention"...

Wow... because grenths makes you sac life... righhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht.

Witcher King

22-07-2005, 04:48

Bravo is correct.

Quit whining. EVERYTHING has a counter.

Acel

09-08-2005, 12:35

Wow... because grenths makes you sac life... righhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht.

Hmm at the point of time I posted this, I had the perception they made it harder for necros to sacrifice themselves to death as listed from one of their updates. Clearly I was wrong.

Now, that doesnt mean you are a better person Lulu by being all sarcastic. Get a life. It doesnt mean that if I can find a flaw in the Law to allow me to kill you and get away scott free its not wrong to do it(morally at least). Continue to indulge yourself in whatever you are doing seriously... not gonna change my views, some villians will never be heroes in history no matter how they try to disguise it. :howdy:

Boom Shaka Laka

10-08-2005, 03:38

IMO = NOT An Exploit

As soon as a person/guild sits down and develops a build that takes GW by storm, it is immediately dubbed an exploit! My Guild has developed strategies, we constantly win (for excessive periods of time) the Droknar's Arenas (and GvG when we have enough) and it is a shame that people yell out HACKS HACKS EXPLOIT when in fact it is supreme teamwork and organisation in skill selection.

As for all you whiners, EVERY build has a counter, but the idea is to prevent the counter with other members of your team.

As far as the corpse factory build goes...

Verata's Aura

GW PvP is competitive team-based STRATEGY *points at STRATEGY*. God forbid you have to think!

Ace Bear

10-08-2005, 04:48

lol I saw this one time in Tombs and we just said f*** it and concentrated on the necro that controlled them all and bam half of us died but their own minions and fiends turned against themselves. We backed off healed a bit and when we were rdy got back into the fray(which the necros were still trying to finish off their own huge army) and won. This build while being high on damage still has its weaknesses just like any other build. Spike groups are also high damage but have horrible defense so any fight that lasts longer then a minute or so with no deaths for the non-spike groups means that the spike group is about to get owned.

WolfieMcNasty

10-08-2005, 10:28

Wow, I can't believe there was even a discussion about this.

Is it a "cheap" tactic? Maybe. I personally don't enjoy it much because it relies mostly on getting a buncha minions up and then letting their ai do the work. But to each his own.

But man, calling LuLu a villain because he's regularly on the cutting edge of new strategies? Uh, ok, right. Man, get off your soap box and go find a way to counter the build, ps, there's ton's out there.

Noxian

21-08-2005, 01:27

raising minions in GW is akin to killing a person??? man...and here i do it all the time...
and why didn't someone tell me there was some moral code concerning raising minions in GW. i didn't know i was supposed to feel morally obligated to not raise minions in GW...does that mean i should go to confession now???

Dolfin

21-08-2005, 23:35

I have been in that arena doing a suicide/minion build. Could of been me.

No one withs HoH or GvG alot with this build so don't moan about it, i think its just alot of fun.

Morbid Jester

21-08-2005, 23:58

There appears to be an easy answer to this build, same as most others. Frag the Necro, as stated above. When the necro is dead, the minions are masterless and attacking their own team. Like every strategy, it appears to be double edged. It definitely doesn't look like an exploit to me. Why not also just get a shutdown mesmer on the job as well? The necro can't cast to heal the minions so they're just dying faster.

I have to admit that I'll give it a go myself though to see just how many minions I can get!

Edit: Just watched the vid, fraggin' awesome! Only question is, where on earth do you get the energy for that many fiends at 25 points a pop!? I can head in with 80+ energy as I'm E/N but couldn't get THAT many!