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Roy
09-10-2005, 20:10
Just here to say that this skill is 100% badass. It dominates anyone be they caster or physical.

Left Shoe
09-10-2005, 22:24
maybe someone can help me understand this one a bit better. i dont like losing all of my energy for a regen of 2....but maybe im missing something

chingyjakpot
09-10-2005, 22:43
maybe someone can help me understand this one a bit better. i dont like losing all of my energy for a regen of 2....but maybe im missing something

well imo u shouldnt use this skill unless u have enough points in inspiration to get energy regen to 3

but this skill is used when u are low on energy or just after u get resed

ecpcorran
09-10-2005, 22:43
maybe someone can help me understand this one a bit better. i dont like losing all of my energy for a regen of 2....but maybe im missing something
Cast it when you are low on energy or when your energy denied target is low on energy.

They then have a crappy recharge while you get you energy back quickly. (IE to cast more energy denial spells)

Roy
10-10-2005, 02:47
You normally need to be an energy denial mesmer to make it work most effectively. With Inspiration of 15 or higher you get -3/+3 energy degen/regen. It's a beautiful thing.

Archedgar
10-10-2005, 02:53
Ether lord is so-so, I wouldn't say it is particularly impressive, but it is one of the few energy denial spells that still works.

To be honest, I don't think this spell 'dominates anyone be they caster or physical', not by a long shot ....

Roy
10-10-2005, 02:57
You just don't seem to UNDERSTAND do you?

Findariel
10-10-2005, 03:06
You normally need to be an energy denial mesmer to make it work most effectively. With Inspiration of 15 or higher you get -3/+3 energy degen/regen. It's a beautiful thing.
Hmm .. I thought -3/+3 (and 9 secs) was from inspiration 12 on?

I think it's more of a energy denial than a fast energy replenishment skill (casting time of 2 seconds doesn't really help either); initially you lose 5 energy yourself (casting cost) and even with 7 bips (4+3) regeneration it takes a while to reach 5 again.

And indeed, you only use it when you're low on energy anyway. Although you're not suddenly replenished, it's particulary nasty for the opponent.

locodantes
10-10-2005, 03:12
-3 on a warrior is one pip of degen.
-3 on a ranger is No regen

It might only put a cramp on casters, but on these 2 classes, -3 degen almost completely shuts down there energy

Findariel
10-10-2005, 03:18
-3 on a warrior is one pip of degen.
-3 on a ranger is No regen

It might only put a cramp on casters, but on these 2 classes, -3 degen almost completely shuts down there energy
Hmm .. should be a nice combo with Panic, together good for -5 energy degen .. especially on monks ;)
Ether Lord's 20 secs recharge time isn't so bad either ..

Tsume
10-10-2005, 03:21
It does reach 3/3 at 12 Inspiration.

And like others have said, its a good blance between replenishment and hassleing.

You shouldnt use it in builds that dont bring your energy pool very low, its better used in high energy builds where you are repeatedly close to 0.

Builds that use Panic, Signet builds (an exception to the close to 0 case), or builds with good reclamation can get very effective use from this skill.

To date, the most use I have had from this skill is on a Panic weilding build, but chaining together a few Domination skills would do just as well. Ether Lord and a good Power Drain or Drain Enchantment give great energy regen, as well as hassling the target. 3 degen is a bigger difference then what it seems, as it keeps your enemy from gaining the energy the would have gained otherwise. If nothing else, you have denied them that 9? energy and forced them to take a bigger net loss while casting.

Archedgar
10-10-2005, 03:23
Hmm .. should be a nice combo with Panic, together good for -5 energy degen .. especially on monks ;)
Ether Lord's 20 secs recharge time isn't so bad either ..

I've done the 'panic-ether lord' combo, it does work nicely against monks.


However, you need to get a target down to low energy or to 0 even for it to be effective, the problem is getting there...

The spell (Ether Lord) is so-so, it has its uses. Actually, the problem is, it can be dispelled off with Holy Veil, smite hex, and even hex breaker stops it pre-emptively...

....

ecpcorran
10-10-2005, 03:32
One combo I used to use with this was Ethereal Burden -> Ether Lord.

Invest some energy in Ethereal, cast Ether lord and a few seconds later you have a lot of energy again + a fast energy regen while your target is slowed down for a little bit and looses a bunch of en pips.

Findariel
10-10-2005, 05:36
One combo I used to use with this was Ethereal Burden -> Ether Lord.

Invest some energy in Ethereal, cast Ether lord and a few seconds later you have a lot of energy again + a fast energy regen while your target is slowed down for a little bit and loses a bunch of en pips.
Great disadvantage is that Etheral Burden takes soooooooooooooo long to cast .... >.<

The ones you want to slow down are usually warriors chasing you. 3 seconds casting means you're basically dead, it's increadibly slow, even with fc 9. :yawn: .. and on top of that 45 seconds recast!!! It's the one spell that has nothing of the fast & agile mesmer feeling.

Then I'd prefer the "inspired" series, 1 sec casting, only 20 secs recast and a free "stolen" skill.

Patccmoi
10-10-2005, 05:49
You don't really have to kill your energy when you think about it.

- Switch to empty weapon set, use Ether Lord, switch back. You can go back to 12-15 energy rigth away (even more if you use +15/-1 set). Keep in mind however that you need to be at around 17-20E before you switch otherwise you'll be below 0 and won't be able to use Ether Lord.

- Use Mantra of Recall, cast a few spell, then use Ether Lord. You'll drop to 0, but your energy will come back after a short while.

There is ways around this 'drops your energy to 0' part of it. I don't think it is an incredible spell, mostly because it's a hex that can be removed. Otherwise it'd have serious potential, but it's hard to put a cover hex on it while dropping your energy to 0... It's a good skill, has its uses, but being an hex limits it a lot. If you use it on a Veiled target, you lose all your energy and they can remove it right away. Weapon switch can allow you to put a cover hex on top of it in a fairly short time.

Panic seems to combo pretty well with it tough i never tried it personally. Think about it, even if you're full at 48E (that's pretty standard energy i think) you use Panic, you're at 23E, you use one spell (say Energy Burn), switch to empty weapon set, Ether Lord your target (they're at -1 energy degen for like 10 sec now), switch back and apply a cover hex, say Mind Wrack. Can be pretty nice and it's not that hard to use overall. Best after this is to be ready with a Power Leak to drop them fast to 0 if they attempt to remove that!

Elessar the True
10-10-2005, 07:34
The most effective use I've had of Ether Lord was on my PvP W/Me. He starts out close to zero anyway, so the energy loss is no big deal, the regen Ether Lord provides more than doubles his natural regen, and most importantly, he can get within range of enemy monks without endangering his own life.

If you ever get tired of being the first one on your team targeted, try the lowly W/Me.

Tsume
10-10-2005, 09:39
The most effective use I've had of Ether Lord was on my PvP W/Me. He starts out close to zero anyway, so the energy loss is no big deal, the regen Ether Lord provides more than doubles his natural regen, and most importantly, he can get within range of enemy monks without endangering his own life.

If you ever get tired of being the first one on your team targeted, try the lowly W/Me.

Very interesting suggestion Elessar. As well as Patccmoi's contribution. I for one, am not huge on the energy switching of items, so I often overlook such simplistic solutions.

I'll have to try out the Warrior version, though I'm not quite sure what I would do with the extra energy heh.

Vexed Arcanist
10-10-2005, 09:57
I ran into an Ether Lord user this weekend and I must say he was most certainly a cad. He shut me down and basically killed me due to this spell. Lets look at this scenario (I only deal with CA, anywhere else I am not sure I would use Ether Lord):

Backfire, Wastrel's...Wastrel's...they now have to heal/feast/etc. Wastrel's, they cast, Wastrel's, they cast, Ether Lord..Wastrel's...Wastrel's...

It's a killer in reality. You force them to cast or take damage, then remove their source of what energy they have left while recovering yours. I have even used this with around 50% energy, it can be worth the sacrifice.

Fafner
10-10-2005, 20:01
I ran into an Ether Lord user this weekend and I must say he was most certainly a cad. He shut me down and basically killed me due to this spell. Lets look at this scenario (I only deal with CA, anywhere else I am not sure I would use Ether Lord):

Backfire, Wastrel's...Wastrel's...they now have to heal/feast/etc. Wastrel's, they cast, Wastrel's, they cast, Ether Lord..Wastrel's...Wastrel's...

It's a killer in reality. You force them to cast or take damage, then remove their source of what energy they have left while recovering yours. I have even used this with around 50% energy, it can be worth the sacrifice.

Nice combo. I have used ether lord in combo with nrg tap effectively in PvE running an anti-W build. Get down to 5 nrg cast lord, as soon as you hit ~3-4 hit tap, you should be at the nec. 5 nrg by the time it is activated. Youre suddenly back at 20 nrg with 7 regen.

Vexed Arcanist
10-10-2005, 20:50
Nice combo. I have used ether lord in combo with nrg tap effectively in PvE running an anti-W build. Get down to 5 nrg cast lord, as soon as you hit ~3-4 hit tap, you should be at the nec. 5 nrg by the time it is activated. Youre suddenly back at 20 nrg with 7 regen.

You could probably design an entire shutdown/kill build with it. Would it be any more effective than other shutdown builds? Probably not, but it is different.

Patccmoi
10-10-2005, 22:20
Very interesting suggestion Elessar. As well as Patccmoi's contribution. I for one, am not huge on the energy switching of items, so I often overlook such simplistic solutions.

I'll have to try out the Warrior version, though I'm not quite sure what I would do with the extra energy heh.

How about TOTAL energy denial?

Use like

Fear Me
Echo (echo Fear)
For Greater Justice (use during Echo downtime to have more or less same effect)
Ether Lord (once you lower their energy enough, it's not going back up! Use during Echo AND Justice downtime)

and cycle through that, rest could simply be adrenal offense skills.

what do you think?

powercozmic
10-10-2005, 22:36
Ether lord has replaced energy tap on my skill bar. U NEED inspiration of 12 though. And If u have a 1 or 2 signets on ur skill bar(sig of midnight), its a must have.
Advantage is I cast ANY spells WITHOUT fear of energy depletion. when my energy is really low around 3-5. I just cast ether lord and get the energy back very quickly while the enemy finds himself running outta energy real fast.
What do I do for the 3-4 secs ether lord takes to give a reasonable amount of energy back ? Use signet of midnight on the nearest tank. ;-)

Joseph Fourier
11-10-2005, 00:36
How about TOTAL energy denial?

Use like

Fear Me
Echo (echo Fear)
For Greater Justice (use during Echo downtime to have more or less same effect)
Ether Lord (once you lower their energy enough, it's not going back up! Use during Echo AND Justice downtime)

and cycle through that, rest could simply be adrenal offense skills.

what do you think?

I like this -- I think it could be sustained pretty well. And if you can get great justice up with your echoed fear me, you can fear me twice every two swings. With ether lord, you can keep great justice/echo going pretty constantly (well, as soon as they recharge).

Thoughts: Will this drain enough energy? Perhaps on a mes/nec/monk -- if you keep pressure on them with attacks and force them to cast. I am not as sure about an ele because their energy reserve is so high... in an extended battle maybe?

Patccmoi
11-10-2005, 01:21
I like this -- I think it could be sustained pretty well. And if you can get great justice up with your echoed fear me, you can fear me twice every two swings. With ether lord, you can keep great justice/echo going pretty constantly (well, as soon as they recharge).

Thoughts: Will this drain enough energy? Perhaps on a mes/nec/monk -- if you keep pressure on them with attacks and force them to cast. I am not as sure about an ele because their energy reserve is so high... in an extended battle maybe?

I don't think this should be really seen as something to DRAIN someone. You will, but yes it will take maybe 10-15 seconds before you really limit their energy.

I think this should be seen more as a way to totally prevent energy regeneration. Say you have a Mesmer in your team that does Energy Surge/Burn/Power Leak on a monk. Then instead of having to use the rest of his skills for energy denial (which is overall very draining on a mesmer and nearly uses all his skill spots if he wants to keep a target down) you could just have this W/Me bashing on the target alone while your Mesmer turns on a second target.

I think this could really screw Monks and Mesmers (if you keep a Mesmer below 5 energy, they can't ever gain it back through their skills except with like Leech Signet which isn't include in that many builds and has an horrible recharge time). For necros, well Soul Reaping could give them a temporary boost, which would go down fast tough, maybe they can manage to squeeze in 1 spell. I wouldn't even try to deny an elementalist of energy. With Glyphs, spells like Ether Prodigy, and the time it takes to get them low enough for you to start limitating their energy, these are just better interrupted. Maybe include Disrupting Chop or Savage Slash in there (Chop more likely, don't have THAT much energy. Need a running skill too).

There's one thing tough, the more i think of this build (which i'm REALLY gonna try, sounds quite fun) the more i think that Ether Lord just isn't needed. I'd rather include like Power Drain, takes a MUCH smaller investment in inspiration to give you back much more energy and you can interrupt a spell. Maybe even Inspired Enchantment or something, can help if they put up Aegis. Ether Lord is nice for the energy denial tough, but isn't Echo Fear Me and Justice enough? Don't know, i'll have to try it out. If Ether Lord wasn't a hex, i wouldn't mind too much, but think about it if i use Ether Lord and they remove the hex in the next 3 seconds (smite hex or holy veil can easily do it), with a warrior regen i'm pretty much screwed out of energy myself!

Ubermancer
11-10-2005, 02:36
Its 'For GREAT Justice', man! Think of ZeroWing!

SquidgY
11-10-2005, 03:39
Ether Lord should always be 3 pips, since nobody will touch this skill unless they have it up to 12 inspiration. It's now the better for energy denial than Energy Tap, which is a good thing for balance… but really, this skill should always be 3 pips.

Roy
11-10-2005, 19:05
Should be, but isn't.

Vexed Arcanist
11-10-2005, 21:30
Ether Lord should always be 3 pips, since nobody will touch this skill unless they have it up to 12 inspiration. It's now the better for energy denial than Energy Tap, which is a good thing for balance… but really, this skill should always be 3 pips.

If it were always 3 pips every Nec/Me or Me/Nec would run Ether Lord + Malaise.

supaet
11-10-2005, 21:37
lol, i run wither + malaise + ether lord, the first two i can put on at least two casters, it totally pisses those casters off, that's 30+ sec of NO energy regen with wither and malaise, then i drop them a ether lord, lol......fun fun fun


If it were always 3 pips every Nec/Me or Me/Nec would run Ether Lord + Malaise.

Joseph Fourier
11-10-2005, 21:48
I don't think this should be really seen as something to DRAIN someone. You will, but yes it will take maybe 10-15 seconds before you really limit their energy.

I think this should be seen more as a way to totally prevent energy regeneration. Say you have a Mesmer in your team that does Energy Surge/Burn/Power Leak on a monk. Then instead of having to use the rest of his skills for energy denial (which is overall very draining on a mesmer and nearly uses all his skill spots if he wants to keep a target down) you could just have this W/Me bashing on the target alone while your Mesmer turns on a second target.

Ok -- I see now what you meant: Use the warrior to hold the lock, use another mesmer to set it up. And yes, that makes alot of sense and removes from consideration the problems I mentioned.


I think this could really screw Monks and Mesmers (if you keep a Mesmer below 5 energy, they can't ever gain it back through their skills except with like Leech Signet which isn't include in that many builds and has an horrible recharge time). For necros, well Soul Reaping could give them a temporary boost, which would go down fast tough, maybe they can manage to squeeze in 1 spell. I wouldn't even try to deny an elementalist of energy. With Glyphs, spells like Ether Prodigy, and the time it takes to get them low enough for you to start limitating their energy, these are just better interrupted. Maybe include Disrupting Chop or Savage Slash in there (Chop more likely, don't have THAT much energy. Need a running skill too).

Yup


There's one thing tough, the more i think of this build (which i'm REALLY gonna try, sounds quite fun) the more i think that Ether Lord just isn't needed. I'd rather include like Power Drain, takes a MUCH smaller investment in inspiration to give you back much more energy and you can interrupt a spell. Maybe even Inspired Enchantment or something, can help if they put up Aegis. Ether Lord is nice for the energy denial tough, but isn't Echo Fear Me and Justice enough? Don't know, i'll have to try it out. If Ether Lord wasn't a hex, i wouldn't mind too much, but think about it if i use Ether Lord and they remove the hex in the next 3 seconds (smite hex or holy veil can easily do it), with a warrior regen i'm pretty much screwed out of energy myself!

This is more or less what I had been thinking ^^. Is fear me/justice enough? Power Drain however is a good suggestion. And you are right: If ether lord goes, war regen is screwed (Use glad armor + focii?). In this, it just needs to be tried out. I can help you out if need be (IGN: Joseph Fourier) by playing the mes mentioned above ^^ or something. But I will try the war in any case.