PDA

View Full Version : How to have a ranger that is built for dmg?



Zijian
15-10-2005, 20:23
I'm confused on two routes.

One is using preparation(kindle or ignite) and enchantments, then using dual shot to spam the preparation and enchantment dmg.

The other is using one preparation with quick shot + distracting and savage.

Being able to spam quick shot means that my expertise has to be at 13. That means no attribute points for enchantments.

Which builds do you guys use?

High expertise with quick shot plus one preparation?

Or preparation plus enchantment and dual shot?

Zijian
15-10-2005, 22:47
Is it me or does the preparation actually add only a very small amount of dmg?

It seems that conjure and kindle numbers are high, but in actual use, the dmg when they hit is actually less than half the amount written.

RyanMurphy
15-10-2005, 23:23
hmmm ever heard of armor?

Cantos
16-10-2005, 03:14
The listed damage on Kindle Arrows/Ignite Arrows etc is only correct assuming 60 armor. Generally speaking, thats Monks, Mesmers, Elementalists, and Necromancers. But some have armor bonuses (Pyromancer +15 to fire, staff mods can be +10 etc). Warriors have 80 or more armor against Fire damage, and Rangers are going to have at least 100.

I think preparation damage is generally signifigant, but Conjure X is a waste both of a skill slot and of attribute points.

The two routes to damage you describe seem to be the same. If you try to hit a target as many times as possible in a short time with the most added damage you can manage, whether you use Dual Shot, or Quick Shot is irrelevant. And the smart way to do it is use both anyway.

The way I like to do it is to take your Marksmanship to 16, forget about Kindle Arrows or anything like that, get an attack speed buff you can keep on yourself permanently (Tiger's Fury, Frenzy, Lightning Reflexes+Oath Shot) and just use a few damage added Marksmanship attack skills.

{BK}Gileren
16-10-2005, 04:45
One is using preparation(kindle or ignite) and enchantments, then using dual shot to spam the preparation and enchantment dmg.

The other is using one preparation with quick shot + distracting and savage.

Being able to spam quick shot means that my expertise has to be at 13. That means no attribute points for enchantments.

Which builds do you guys use?

High expertise with quick shot plus one preparation?

Or preparation plus enchantment and dual shot?

Ok, i see something very wrong here.... you are limiting yourself to two different kinds of builds under a thread listed as "How to have a ranger that is build for dmg". now i'm not one for nitpicking but you are completely ignoring the side of Beast Mastery, or the fact that you might want to take ranger secondary, along w/ ~60+ other skills that can be used.

Now that you know where i stand (for you slow folks that is: DO NOT LIMIT YOURSELF TO A COOKIE CUTTER BUILD), i will answer your question to the best of my knowledge.

i do not use either of the builds you posted
high expertise-Yes, Quickshot-No, One Prep.-Yes, this is by far the best advantage rangers have because its the hardest thing to counter, therefor the most reliable.

I think a great way to learn which builds/guidelines are suited for you or not is by seeing examples so you can set certain guidelines for yourself. so i will give you my guidelines that i use for my bow-ranger, so that you can see what you like and dislike, and learn about it rather then copy the typical conjure+QS ranger (besides it makes the game less fun if you play a cookie cutter)

---I do not use any enchantments unless another person casts them on me (duh, no choice then lol). why? because people are now starting to realize how common it is for ppl to cast enchantments. this means that your enemy will be casting spells that exploit enchantments to their benefit more then ever before. while they can help you boost your build, enchantments can also destroy you when your enemy chooses to use them to their benefit.

---I do not use quick shot. Why? because if this skill gets interupted then your build is severely damaged for however long it was interupted, and simply because i do not like how this skill functions (IMO it is a half-a**ed Elite... i know many cookie cutters would argue w/ me, but dont...please)

---I always have exactly 13 expertise. I always have 13 expertise exactly because it makes most skills that cost 5 energy now cost 2 instead of 3 energy (which it would be at 12 expertise). Since i use a lot of skills that use 5 energy it is the most logical amount, but if you do something different, then feel free to change this number.

---I always use at the very least 9 marksmanship when i use my bow based ranger. the reason i use 9marks(atleast) is kind of obvious, so you can use a PvP bow. while people do say its best to max your marksmanship as high as you can, for the extra dmg and more critical hits, i think it is best to place your other attribute points first, as they have a certain science to them. (yes Marksmanship-Criticals may have a certain "beat"[for lack of a better word] to them but it is not widely known or known at all for that matter except for the elusive "declines after 12marks)what i mean by this is if you take care of marksmanship first by getting it to say 14 w/ runes, then that might mean that you do not have enough attribute points to place expertise at 13, which makes #12&11 near useless(if you use alot of 5energy skills). so leave marksmanship last (unless you use no Wilderness survival, and/or do not have a high priority for expertise, by being heavy spell based or whatnot), and if you dont have 9 marks, go back and reconfigure the attribute points.

---I Always use Preparations (that means no barrage anymore for me). Preparations are by far the most underrated skills in the entire game, and us rangers are lucky enough to have access to them. why do i say this? because almost every other class would start drooling if they were suddenly given skills that acted exactly like enchantments but did not count as spells (non-mesmer-plaything).

---I Usually have a Hex Spell. :eek: whats this? it might be a bit of a shocker to some of you out there. unfortunately most of the ranger cookie cutters have been so obsessed with enchantments and buffing themselves up as high has possible they forgot 1 important thing about battle, you must first weaken your enemy if you are to attempt to destroy him, if not you will suffer high casualties, if that is not the case, you found a loophole, or you are lucky.

If this hasn't been helpful to you Zijian i'm sorry, i posted all i could think of at the moment without giving you a build to copy from. And perhaps if you play your cards right and think outside the box you can come up with an amazing build that no one has thought of yet.

Blood Bot
16-10-2005, 06:45
Penetrating attack, Troll Uguent, Hunters Shot, Kindle Arrows, Poision Arrow, Savage shot,.. Pet skills. Thats the basic damage dealing build plain and simple.

slickutica
16-10-2005, 06:53
well i use the old kindle arrows and conjure flame trick with my 5/1 vamp halfmoon and use quickshot/dual shot/hunters shot plus tigers fury for the extra quickness and seem to do good damage

don't look down at hunters shot as its cheap and packs a punch and if you want to add to the damage pack a spirit such a favorable winds 6 extra damage or winnowing 4 extra damage together

Zijian
16-10-2005, 10:34
Ok, i see something very wrong here.... you are limiting yourself to two different kinds of builds under a thread listed as "How to have a ranger that is build for dmg". now i'm not one for nitpicking but you are completely ignoring the side of Beast Mastery, or the fact that you might want to take ranger secondary, along w/ ~60+ other skills that can be used.

Now that you know where i stand (for you slow folks that is: DO NOT LIMIT YOURSELF TO A COOKIE CUTTER BUILD), i will answer your question to the best of my knowledge.

i do not use either of the builds you posted
high expertise-Yes, Quickshot-No, One Prep.-Yes, this is by far the best advantage rangers have because its the hardest thing to counter, therefor the most reliable.

I think a great way to learn which builds/guidelines are suited for you or not is by seeing examples so you can set certain guidelines for yourself. so i will give you my guidelines that i use for my bow-ranger, so that you can see what you like and dislike, and learn about it rather then copy the typical conjure+QS ranger (besides it makes the game less fun if you play a cookie cutter)

---I do not use any enchantments unless another person casts them on me (duh, no choice then lol). why? because people are now starting to realize how common it is for ppl to cast enchantments. this means that your enemy will be casting spells that exploit enchantments to their benefit more then ever before. while they can help you boost your build, enchantments can also destroy you when your enemy chooses to use them to their benefit.

---I do not use quick shot. Why? because if this skill gets interupted then your build is severely damaged for however long it was interupted, and simply because i do not like how this skill functions (IMO it is a half-a**ed Elite... i know many cookie cutters would argue w/ me, but dont...please)

---I always have exactly 13 expertise. I always have 13 expertise exactly because it makes most skills that cost 5 energy now cost 2 instead of 3 energy (which it would be at 12 expertise). Since i use a lot of skills that use 5 energy it is the most logical amount, but if you do something different, then feel free to change this number.

---I always use at the very least 9 marksmanship when i use my bow based ranger. the reason i use 9marks(atleast) is kind of obvious, so you can use a PvP bow. while people do say its best to max your marksmanship as high as you can, for the extra dmg and more critical hits, i think it is best to place your other attribute points first, as they have a certain science to them. (yes Marksmanship-Criticals may have a certain "beat"[for lack of a better word] to them but it is not widely known or known at all for that matter except for the elusive "declines after 12marks)what i mean by this is if you take care of marksmanship first by getting it to say 14 w/ runes, then that might mean that you do not have enough attribute points to place expertise at 13, which makes #12&11 near useless(if you use alot of 5energy skills). so leave marksmanship last (unless you use no Wilderness survival, and/or do not have a high priority for expertise, by being heavy spell based or whatnot), and if you dont have 9 marks, go back and reconfigure the attribute points.

---I Always use Preparations (that means no barrage anymore for me). Preparations are by far the most underrated skills in the entire game, and us rangers are lucky enough to have access to them. why do i say this? because almost every other class would start drooling if they were suddenly given skills that acted exactly like enchantments but did not count as spells (non-mesmer-plaything).

---I Usually have a Hex Spell. :eek: whats this? it might be a bit of a shocker to some of you out there. unfortunately most of the ranger cookie cutters have been so obsessed with enchantments and buffing themselves up as high has possible they forgot 1 important thing about battle, you must first weaken your enemy if you are to attempt to destroy him, if not you will suffer high casualties, if that is not the case, you found a loophole, or you are lucky.

If this hasn't been helpful to you Zijian i'm sorry, i posted all i could think of at the moment without giving you a build to copy from. And perhaps if you play your cards right and think outside the box you can come up with an amazing build that no one has thought of yet.

Quite a good post. And I must say that it helps a lot.The reason why I'm geared towards maximum damage is simple. I want to clear all the monsters that I come across and be an asset to the team, not a liability. I'm afraid that I'm not Einstein and while I can come up with new builds, I'm pretty sure that ideas that I will discuss would have been discussed 100 times before in this forum.

I'm looking for a best approach on it, I only want to be able to pump out lots of dmg as a fighter behind the lines.

I have tried out the build on ignite arrows and dual shot. Sure, lots of numbers pop up, but all are single digit numbers.

Using a max marksmanship build and spamming barrage even for single targets, I was able to get 69 dmg quite a number of times for single targets. Dual shot really shines here, being able to hit two arrows of 55 dmg each.

Combining with tiger's fury, even single arrow shots do pump quite an amount of dmg.

I'm currently using Drago's flatbow with customise and tiger's fury.

If I'm not wrong, I'm shooting one arrow every 1.32 seconds. With no preparation to keep up, I can keep this up constantly without stopping. Quickshot needs 1 second to shoot the arrow out(am I right?) and with 1 second of recharge time, it can't really be spammed. While it can be combined with savage shot and distracting shot, what would be missing out is the physical dmg component, that component seems to be a huge part.

Gamesguy
16-10-2005, 10:59
Why would you not bring a prep? Even with nothing in WS you should bring read the wind, adding around 11 dmg/arrow.


You NEED 12 marks minimum. You lose something like 10% dmg not including crits each level below 12. While it may not be necessary to max out to 16(and I often dont), 14-15 marks is highly recommended.

A simple 11+4/10+3/10+1 (marks/expertise/WS) build with dual, qs, distracting and kindle remain an efficient damage dealer.

As for the argument against QS, there are only 4 skills in the game that can extend its recharge: the 2 disrupting skills, sig of humulity, and diversion. Its difficult at best to interrupt QS with DS or DC, sig of humulity is a stupid thing to use agianst a ranger, and you can easlly interrupt/wait for diversion to come off.

McMullen
16-10-2005, 11:23
I usually take kindle arrows, frenzy (warrior skill), lightning reflexes and savage shot.

May be worth trying tiger's fury.

Bravo
16-10-2005, 13:58
As for the argument against QS, there are only 4 skills in the game that can extend its recharge: the 2 disrupting skills, sig of humulity, and diversion. Its difficult at best to interrupt QS with DS or DC, sig of humulity is a stupid thing to use agianst a ranger, and you can easlly interrupt/wait for diversion to come off.

Forgot the most spammable one of them all, disrupting lunge..

Zijian
16-10-2005, 16:07
Like a weapon, a pet is pretty useless without much points in BM.

I like frenzy and tried it, but I found it too risky, not only does it prepare you to be baked by the enemy, even with maximum range flatbow or longbow, the defensive loss far outweighs the offensive value.

I found that in all, pushing marksmanship from 12 to 16 does give quite an amount of dmg, but I find that it can outweighed even more by putting the stats in other places like beast mastery for tiger's fury or into expertise to reduce cost for long run attacks.

Combining barrage with tiger's fury gives a nice solution, spamming barrage every alternate shot. The same with tiger's fury, quick shot and dual, combined with preparation.

I find that for PvE, tiger's fury + barrage simply owns. It gives the most arrows per second when everything is grouped up. Even singular shots are fired at 1 every 1.33 seconds. Combined with poison before using barrage, it gives the most dmg per sec.

For singular targets, tiger's fury, quick shot and dual with preparation gives the most arrows output for per second(arrows, not dmg). Being able to shoot two normal arrows within the span of 1.33 seconds is priceless. Combining with dual shot and quickshot, it's 3 arrows under 1.33 seconds. It is all using a flatbow or shortbow though, seems that other bows can't cut it. And with quick shot, it's preparation friendly.

Spamming either barrage or dual shot means a level 13 expertise, but I'm not 100% if there are other good ways which a ranger can regen energy besides zealous.

That sets back about 13 expertise, 12 marksmanship, 9 beast. 9 in wilderness is also a must for troll ungent.

Also, the set up is fairly simply, only 4 main skills, tiger's fury, barrage, apply poison, troll ungent, whirling defense.

I can't really think of any other realistic means to increase dmg without cheating, lol. There's quite an amount of skill slots left, I can think of favorable winds, but if the groups are fast paced, it may become useless.

Mark of pain seems to be good, and I do feel like giving up on wilderness surivial and pouring everything into curses. It has both heals and offensives.

Any other ideas?

wind
16-10-2005, 16:51
Quite a good post. And I must say that it helps a lot.The reason why I'm geared towards maximum damage is simple. I want to clear all the monsters that I come across and be an asset to the team, not a liability.

You don't necessarily need to go the damage route to be an asset to the team all the time. Depending on how familiar a player is with each area, sometimes the combo of Practiced Stance and shooting Choking Gas around, can cut down the damage done to your team significantly.

With being able to rearrange attribute points at no cost now, try it out sometime when there are a lot of castor enemies to be found.

{BK}Gileren
17-10-2005, 05:48
I can't really think of any other realistic means to increase dmg without cheating, lol. There's quite an amount of skill slots left, I can think of favorable winds, but if the groups are fast paced, it may become useless.

Mark of pain seems to be good, and I do feel like giving up on wilderness surivial and pouring everything into curses. It has both heals and offensives.

Any other ideas?

I'm not sure which rune combination would be best so i'll just post the points+runes and you figure out which would be best to use...

Expertise: 13
Wilderness survival: 11
Marksmanship: 12
Curses: 5

-Now you can use many hexes in Curses: Mark of Pain, Barbs, Weaken Armor etc...
-For your elite, look in the Wilderness Survival area...
-to maximize your effectiveness w/ prep+hex bring Dual shot, and Called shot for when the enemy is using a dodging stance.
-its always good to have atleast one interupt, whether it is concussion shot, distracting shot, savage shot etc is up to you.
-troll unguent is always good to save your neck when you have no other means of self-healing
-with 13 expertise, and witht he boost to lightning reflexes, bringing both whirling defense and lightning reflexes are a good choice... sure dryder's defense might help w/ elemental damage but come on... we have +30 elemental on every piece of our armor (as R/??)...
-by not bringing tiger's fury you do not damage yourself w/ being unable to heal yourself & activate a stance. IMO Tiger's Fury hurts you more than it helps you...

Perhaps if you choose wisely you can deal an occasional (what i mean by occasional is, non-monked-character, Lol)~90dmg every arrow against some casters :happy34: